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Posted: 9/4/2002 6:29:02 AM EDT
I recently sent a longgun via US mail. The post weenie tried to convince me that it MUST go registered mail. I knew better and asked him to show me the policy...plus I showed him the BATF FAQ that stated it can't be marked etc... Its as if they just make shit up as they go. They don't know the rules so they try to enforce "what sounds right." Buncha shitbirds...
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 6:36:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 7:16:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lostwildcat: We'll see how the dumbass here in Al act. Im going hunting in VA next week and am sending a rifle through the mail in the next couple of days :)
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I would not even volunteer that info. Just set it on the counter and let him/her ask the questions. When he/she asks if there is anything dangerous/hazordus etc in the case, just say its a firearm. [b]Then have the BATF FAQ ready.[/b] They will give you a bunch of BS, just be polite and point out that you've taken the liberty of doing your homework and what your doing is perfectly legal and within postal regs. They will be flabbergasted that you called BS, as well they should be. Don't volenteer any info that you aren't asked for. They just try to use it in there argument against you. (This observation is from experience)
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 7:36:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Slacker: I would not even volunteer that info. Just set it on the counter and let him/her ask the questions. When he/she asks if there is anything dangerous/hazardous etc in the case, just say its a firearm. [b]Then have the BATF FAQ ready.[/b] They will give you a bunch of BS, just be polite and point out that you've taken the liberty of doing your homework and what your doing is perfectly legal and within postal regs. They will be flabbergasted that you called BS, as well they should be. Don't volunteer any info that you aren't asked for. They just try to use it in there argument against you. (This observation is from experience with just a touch of paranoia) [:)]
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The way the laws and the Domestic Mail Manual (section C024) are written, it is a little unclear - but i believe that you are REQUIRED by federal law to inform them there is a firearm inside the package. This is because firearms fall under the category of ORM (Other Restricted Materials) and you HAVE to inform the post office if you are mailing such things. The rules clearly state that the post office is allowed to open and inspect the package (in your presence) ot make sure the firearm is not loaded. The law also clearly states that they are not allowed to mark the package in anyway to indicate there is a firarm inside. If you do not inform them there is a firearm, it is pretty clear to me you have violated federal law. You can all draw your own conclusions, but I think I'll rather not accidentally commit a felony simply to avoid a couple of minutes of hassle at the post office. Just my $0.02
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 7:38:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 7:46:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof: The way the laws and the Domestic Mail Manual (section C024) are written, it is a little unclear - but i believe that you are REQUIRED by federal law to inform them there is a firearm inside the package.
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No, you are not. You are required to notify a "common carrier" if you are shipping a firearm, but NOT the USPS.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 7:48:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2002 7:49:23 AM EDT by lostwildcat]
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 8:29:35 AM EDT
Got a link to the BATF FAQ?
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 8:59:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2002 9:06:17 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]
No, you are not. You are required to notify a "common carrier" if you are shipping a firearm, but NOT the USPS.
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You are required to notify the carrier that the package contains a firearm only if you are shipping to a nonlicensee. If you are shipping to a licensee, the law does not require you to notify the carrier that the package contains a firearm. There is no specific requirement to notify the USPS. However, the Postal Regulations do require you to either demonstrate or certify that any firearm is unloaded. That would tend to inform them that there is a firearm in the package.
This is because firearms fall under the category of ORM (Other Restricted Materials) and you HAVE to inform the post office if you are mailing such things.
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That is not true. ORM is a DOT classification for Other Regulated Material and pertains to ammunition, not firearms.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 9:46:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
No, you are not. You are required to notify a "common carrier" if you are shipping a firearm, but NOT the USPS.
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You are required to notify the carrier that the package contains a firearm only if you are shipping to a nonlicensee. If you are shipping to a licensee, the law does not require you to notify the carrier that the package contains a firearm. There is no specific requirement to notify the USPS. However, the Postal Regulations do require you to either demonstrate or certify that any firearm is unloaded. That would tend to inform them that there is a firearm in the package.
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EXACTLY - that was my point. Even though the law and the postal regulations do not explicitly say that you have to tell the post office, the fact that they have to be allowed to inspect it pretty much requires that you tell them. All I'm saying is that the ambiguity is one I'd rather avoid instead of having to explain it in front of a federal judge wearing an orange jumpsuit.
This is because firearms fall under the category of ORM (Other Restricted Materials) and you HAVE to inform the post office if you are mailing such things.
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That is not true. ORM is a DOT classification for Other Regulated Material and pertains to ammunition, not firearms.
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Good point - I was struck by the title of C024 in the DMM - which is: "C024 Other Restricted or Nonmailable Matter C024 describes other restricted or nonmailable items (e.g., firearms, sharp instruments, controlled substances, pesticides)." You are correct that the ORM definition (like for ammo) is a more specific one. My mistake. I'm just touchy about this topic because I occasionally get people who mail stuff to me illegally - I have a C&R FFL. I have had at least two different people ship HANDGUNS to me by USPS priority mail, and just have had them left on my doorstep to discover when I get home. When I told the dealers who mailed them to me that i was pretty sure they were not allowed to, they confidently told me that they KNEW it was legal, and had been doing it for years. So it's not just the post office who have people that do not know the rules - sometimes it's the gun dealers who are actually comitting crimes without knowing it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 11:25:31 AM EDT
I got asked for ID today because the package I was sending was over 1lb. I really got pissed off!
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 11:29:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof: EXACTLY - that was my point. Even though the law and the postal regulations do not explicitly say that you have to tell the post office, the fact that they have to be allowed to inspect it pretty much requires that you tell them.
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No, it does not. If they choose to inspect it, they can. YOU are not required to tell them.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 12:11:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MrP: Got a link to the BATF FAQ?
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[url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm[/url] warning its LOOOONG
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 12:19:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lostwildcat: Slacker, that hunting info was just info for the hell of it ;) the less they know about my business is better. I will tell them its a firearm. I think it will be pretty obvious, but with the BATF FAQ in hand they should fall into line pretty quickly. Unfortunately, there are a lot of soccermoms working at my PO so it may take some convincing/supervisor assistance to get it done.
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Best of luck dealing with those sokkar moms. They can be a real pain sometimes. I have little patience for them...nor they for me! They can, if they choose, inspect the firearm to ensure its unloaded. If you have secured the package/case for shipping, it might be a pain to unwrap it. I bring a roll of tape and a couple zip ties with me. I usually finish wrapping it at the counter. I had to sign a "I certify this firearm is unloaded" statement when I mailed it. This statement did not go into the case.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 1:17:08 PM EDT
In addition to the ATF FAQ (and maybe even better) take along your own copy of section C024 of the mail manual: [url=http://pe.usps.gov/cpim/ftp/manuals/DMM/C024.pdf#xml=http://pe.usps.gov/search97cgi/s97is.dll?action=View&VdkVgwKey=D%3A%5CInetpub%5Cwwwroot%5Ccpim%5Cftp%5Cmanua­ls%5Cdmm%5CC024%2Epdf&doctype=xml&Collection=Domestic+Mail+Manual&QueryZip=restricted&]Link to PDF document[/url] If that doesn't work go to [url]pe.usps.gov[/url] and do a search for restricted.
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