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Posted: 8/27/2002 10:53:38 PM EDT
[#1]
people. most of your thoughts are relevent but they have one thing missing you cant see what you propose to shoot at! a fuel filter??? ok there is a target about 4in by 12in inside the side panal of the equipment you wont see it bor will you see the intake manifold or the radiator in most cases. heavy equip is not standardized everything is in diff places per manufaturer. most cabs actually have some protecton heavy rock guards and fairly thick glass remember there built with the fact that things may come at the windows. Im not saying that its not possible to shoot an oporator however. I dont think there really is a good way to instantly stop most heavy equip. you best bet would be suger in the fuel tank while not instant its silent and you can do multiple machines before your death is iminent Maby the next best choice would be the hyd tank which is often exposed but upi have to know what your looking for. also not intant but it oporates contols and transmission(hydrostatic)all from a single tank your best bet avoid them they are slow and you will hear it coming
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Posted: 8/27/2002 10:59:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Just yell... COFFEE BREAK!!! [:D] |
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Posted: 8/27/2002 11:07:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: people. most of your thoughts are relevent but they have one thing missing you cant see what you propose to shoot at! a fuel filter??? ok there is a target about 4in by 12in inside the side panal of the equipment you wont see it bor will you see the intake manifold or the radiator in most cases. heavy equip is not standardized everything is in diff places per manufaturer. most cabs actually have some protecton heavy rock guards and fairly thick glass remember there built with the fact that things may come at the windows. Im not saying that its not possible to shoot an oporator however. I dont think there really is a good way to instantly stop most heavy equip. you best bet would be suger in the fuel tank while not instant its silent and you can do multiple machines before your death is iminent Maby the next best choice would be the hyd tank which is often exposed but upi have to know what your looking for. also not intant but it oporates contols and transmission(hydrostatic)all from a single tank your best bet avoid them they are slow and you will hear it coming The situation was with the engine in view as it is on earthmoving equipment. Sugar in the fuel tank works really well if you want to put the vehicle out of commission over a longer period of time. What works also is a quart of permanent anti-freeze poured in the crankcase. Permanent anti-freeze sludges the oil into a thick, gray, fudgy mass, in no time at all. No lubrication, no engine! Bill |
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Posted: 8/27/2002 11:47:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Quoted: One possible solution: how about launching Molotov cocktails using the M-1 rifle granade launcher system, and the tail/fins designed for launching chemical/smoke granades? Imagine a world of sudden violence. Imagine a world where the only thing between you and some maniac with a dozer coming to crush you is you and your M1. Now imagine a world where your last few moments are spent running around on fire because you tried to shoot a flaming wicked GLASS bottle of gasoline from the end of your Garand to a target which shattered when you fired and, as you run back and forth in your best Richard Pryor imitation, finally hearing the dozer stop, because the driver is convulsing with laughter. One would fire some practice rounds with bottles filled with WATER first, of course. They used shotgun launched Molotov Cocktails in the Cuban Revolution, if Che is to be believed. Also, you want a mixture of Gas, oil and perhaps grease in the bottle. Gas alone burns off too fast. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 2:52:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: And just who might be operating these demonic bulldozers? Someone has way too much time on their hands thinking about this stuff. How far away do you live from Waco? |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 3:58:25 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: One possible solution: how about launching Molotov cocktails using the M-1 rifle granade launcher system, and the tail/fins designed for launching chemical/smoke granades? Imagine a world of sudden violence. Imagine a world where the only thing between you and some maniac with a dozer coming to crush you is you and your M1. Now imagine a world where your last few moments are spent running around on fire because you tried to shoot a flaming wicked GLASS bottle of gasoline from the end of your Garand to a target which shattered when you fired and, as you run back and forth in your best Richard Pryor imitation, finally hearing the dozer stop, because the driver is convulsing with laughter. LOL |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 9:34:05 AM EDT
[#7]
The San Diego tank incident was already mentioned, but there was another "heavy equipment" incident in San Diego county. Some dude stole a big rig, and drove it real fast in a camp ground on a local Indian reservation at night, killing one camper in his tent. Other campers, mostly bikers, opened fire on the big rig, putting lots of bullets near the driver. However, the driver wasn't hit by their fire.
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Posted: 8/28/2002 10:47:41 AM EDT
[#8]
most of the hydraulic lines are exposed. 50+
gallons of hydraulic fluid spewing out gets kind of nasty. then something to set it ablaze. use your imagination. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 11:56:37 AM EDT
[#9]
What exactly does sugar in the gas tank do? |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 12:03:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: What exactly does sugar in the gas tank do? First it will sieze the rings to the pistons. After the engine is shut off, the liquid sugar hardens and causes the pistons to sieze, to the cylinder walls, siezing the engine. Bill |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 4:31:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: What exactly does sugar in the gas tank do? Not a damn thing. Sugar will not dissolve in gasoline, and definately won't dissolve in diesel. Get a glass and try it for yourself. This is an old wive's tale that has been arouind forever. It comes from the fact that if you set fire to gas with sugar in the fluid, it will make a huge nasty sticky carmelized mess. Unfortuneately, The sugar doesn't dissolve, so the sugar stays in the tank and never makes it to the engine to do anythin to the cylinders, rings, etc. BBs in an intake will do wonders for heads, pistons, and cylinders though. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 4:36:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I havent seen any literature on the vulnerablilites of heavy equipment in a combat situation. It would seem likely that a person may come up against front end loaders, artuculated dumps, bull dozers, and the like. Despite an interest in such equipment over the years, I can't say I've ever thought much about it from a tactical perspective. Is there any information out there or people familiar enough with the designs to elaborate on the weaknesses? 3 items come to mind... Pipe bombs, Dynamite, C4. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 4:43:28 PM EDT
[#13]
I don't see what the big fucking joke is about this thread. Sounds like a valid question to me.
Racebaiter, most commercial loaders, graders, etc. have portions of their engine exposed. Hit the engine, any exposed hydraulic lines and of course the tires (discounting dozers/tracked vehicles). |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 4:59:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Of course, we're all missing the obvious point to be made here: that heavy equipment would make a pretty good hasty armored vehicle in a SHTF situation.
Given a little more time and some welding expertise, most dozers/tracked vehicles could be made into a pretty respectable tank-like creature. No getting around the speed issue really but some thick steel plate could be fit to cover the soft points. A few slots cut out for gun and sight ports once you cover up that vulnerable cab area and you've got a nasty roving gun nest that'll do just as well to go over or through the target as shoot it. Now cool it with all that jibba jabba foo, and get on that welda! (says B.A. Baracas). |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 5:21:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Of course, we're all missing the obvious point to be made here: that heavy equipment would make a pretty good hasty armored vehicle in a SHTF situation. Given a little more time and some welding expertise, most dozers/tracked vehicles could be made into a pretty respectable tank-like creature. No getting around the speed issue really but some thick steel plate could be fit to cover the soft points. A few slots cut out for gun and sight ports once you cover up that vulnerable cab area and you've got a nasty roving gun nest that'll do just as well to go over or through the target as shoot it. Now cool it with all that jibba jabba foo, and get on that welda! (says B.A. Baracas). Fight'n SeaBees! Check out some pix from WW2 Pacific theater, the SeaBees pretty much did just this when they ran into problems with Japanese snipers. Not so much to run down Japanese but to ignore them while clearing runways, etc. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 5:26:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: What works also is a quart of permanent anti-freeze poured in the crankcase. Permanent anti-freeze sludges the oil into a thick, gray, fudgy mass, in no time at all. No lubrication, no engine! Cool. I had no idea. Not that I would ever do this but it's still cool. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 5:40:57 PM EDT
[#17]
I would say your best bet would be a shot or several shots at the engine block. It's a large target that should be failry easy to hit from the side of the equipment. 30.06 or .308 shold penetrate it without a problem.
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Posted: 8/28/2002 6:32:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: What exactly does sugar in the gas tank do? Not a damn thing. Sugar will not dissolve in gasoline, and definately won't dissolve in diesel. Get a glass and try it for yourself. This is an old wive's tale that has been arouind forever. It comes from the fact that if you set fire to gas with sugar in the fluid, it will make a huge nasty sticky carmelized mess. Unfortuneately, The sugar doesn't dissolve, so the sugar stays in the tank and never makes it to the engine to do anythin to the cylinders, rings, etc. BBs in an intake will do wonders for heads, pistons, and cylinders though. It is right, that sugar doesn't disolve in gasoline. However, the gasoline carries the sugar into the engine where the heat of the engine, and combustion melts it. It used to be easier, on older vehicles, to sabotage the vehicle with sugar or syrup. Newer vehicles have the fuel pickup, in conjunction with the fuel pump, inside of the vehicles tank. Modern fuel filters could also filter out most of the sugar. But not syrup. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 6:55:54 PM EDT
[#19]
2 words, Molotov Cocktail.
The Finns coined the name in WW2, as a darkly humourous jab at Soviet General Molotov. They would usually smash it onto the grating covering the engine and let it drip in. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 8:41:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Some of the above will work but, the fastest way to stop them is shut off the fuel supply. Best bet on a moving target: [b]Fuel Filter.[/b] Trust me. [;d] Gunrunner: You're right the fuel filter would be a good target, if it were visible. Most heavy equipment, military and civilian, is fuel injected. Where is the filter located? What does it look like? How big of a target is it? If the intake manifold is pierced anywhere downstream of the throttle valve, the engine stops, and runs no more. Bill Ok the question was I believe about Commercial Heavy Equipment (which I currently work on 12+ hours a day) [b]The fastest and most effective way to dissable; is to shut off the fuel or electrical supply[/b] Problem being, the components vary in location from piece to piece. Some are exposed to sight some are not. A fair sized hole in a fuel filter will render a Caterpillar D11 useless [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/1GUNRUNNER%2FD11N%2Ejpg[/img] (keep in mind there are 3 fuel filters on the machine) Shutting down the electrical system ie. batteries will work also. |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 8:59:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some of the above will work but, the fastest way to stop them is shut off the fuel supply. Best bet on a moving target: [b]Fuel Filter.[/b] Trust me. [;d] Gunrunner: You're right the fuel filter would be a good target, if it were visible. Most heavy equipment, military and civilian, is fuel injected. Where is the filter located? What does it look like? How big of a target is it? If the intake manifold is pierced anywhere downstream of the throttle valve, the engine stops, and runs no more. Bill Ok the question was I believe about Commercial Heavy Equipment (which I currently work on 12+ hours a day) [b]The fastest and most effective way to dissable; is to shut off the fuel or electrical supply[/b] Problem being, the components vary in location from piece to piece. Some are exposed to sight some are not. A fair sized hole in a fuel filter will render a Caterpillar D11 useless [url]www.ar15.com/members/albums/1GUNRUNNER%2FD11N%2Ejpg[/url] (keep in mind there are 3 fuel filters on the machine) Shutting down the electrical system ie. batteries will work also. What a great picture of that BIG D11 Dude. I worked for the City of LA, Dept. of Water and Power for several years. I have wrenched on a lot of Caterpiller's various implements. I have also done a lot of "hard-facing" on the blades. I got tired of the dirt and the working conditions, and went back to college and hung up a sheepskin. Then, I found out how good I had it as a Diesel mechanic. Do you work as a Diesel Mechanic now? Bill |
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Posted: 8/28/2002 8:59:45 PM EDT
[#22]
ok fact is suger in the fuel tank does work. I know. I was at a logging site a while back. WE got started in the morning started working. the skidder kept dieing (diesle) but when you let it set for a minute you could start it it would run ten minutes (like crap) then die. looked in the gas tank and you could see the sugar crysals around the cap and on the fuel tank walls. someone had sabotaged the skidder to keep us from logging the site. (noit all that uncommon in the logging bizz. Im pritty sure the sugar was plugging up the fuel filter and probably the pump and the injectors. I did no real engine damage cause it got discoverd quick. had to drain tank change all filters clean lines pump.ect LOTs of work. but yes it does work in one way or the other
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Posted: 8/28/2002 9:11:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Do you work as a Diesel Mechanic now? Bill Fleet Service Oiler. I have done all forms of maintenance, though. [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/1GUNRUNNER%2Flubefront%2Ejpg[/img] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/1GUNRUNNER%2Flubeback%2Ejpg[/img] Oregon Shooter - I believe we are talking about disabling from a distance. |
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Posted: 8/29/2002 5:25:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: Do you work as a Diesel Mechanic now? Bill Fleet Service Oiler. I have done all forms of maintenance, though. [url]www.ar15.com/members/albums/1GUNRUNNER%2Flubefront%2Ejpg[/url] [url]www.ar15.com/members/albums/1GUNRUNNER%2Flubeback%2Ejpg[/url] Oregon Shooter - I believe we are talking about disabling from a distance. Glad for the additional pictures. You look big enough to wrestle that equipment around. That piece of equipment would be hard to stop. I don't see any vulnerabilities readily visible, except for the driver. RPG into the front of the piece would be about what it would take. The vehicle looks like a service truck. Is that so? Is that a fuel tank I see from the front? Where in Washington do you do this? Edited to say: My pickup's license number used to be 1GUNRNR. Bill |
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Posted: 8/29/2002 6:12:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: I would try sugar & sand in the fuel tank, or shooting the guy driving it in the face. Of course it depends on how fast I want the thing out of commission on what option I take. A flame thrower is another idea for you MacGyvers out there. I would surely say sugar in the tank as well, but sand(please explain) . The Israelis designed and carried Desert eagles in their tanks so they could sweep the tank busters that would pour Gasoline in the tank drivers holes and turrent vents. Right on Ponnyboy get them before they get moving on you. Bob [8D] |
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Posted: 8/29/2002 6:34:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: The vehicle looks like a service truck. Is that so? Is that a fuel tank I see from the front? Yes and yes, carries 3000 gallons of diesel Where in Washington do you do this? Northeast of Centralia Edited to say: My pickup's license number used to be 1GUNRNR. So would mine but, The State of Washington Department of Licensing deems it inappropriate. Worthless bastards. |
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Posted: 8/30/2002 7:43:22 AM EDT
[#27]
I can only think of one thing.
THE A TEAM |
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Posted: 8/30/2002 9:07:13 AM EDT
[#28]
oh yea. this is what im talking about. real people that work on or with the stuff on a regular basis. lots of good information so far, i think. thanks! ill have to review.
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Posted: 8/31/2002 7:52:47 AM EDT
[#29]
Wow, all this for such a simple problem...bulldozer coming? Just step aside and as it rolls by, pop the operator right out of his seat with your AR....DUH!!!!!
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