[ARCHIVED THREAD] - US Economic Collapse (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 11/24/2012 1:10:03 PM EDT
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is kinda like a Bull Shark. You're treading water miles from land, you can't see him, but you know he's down there. The anxiety tears you apart because you know he'll strike, but when.
Yes, that is how I have felt these last few years. 
Anybody else feel this way 
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. |
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. I suspect you're wrong. This will happen with the same rapidity that the 29 crash happened. Surely you remember the the last couple market crashes that happened, when it happens it will be at hyper speed. As for the gov raping and plundering, they are in the process of doing that now with the QE1, QE2, and the nest quatitative easing. We are fucked. |
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. I sure hope you are correct, I need about 5 years (more) to prepare for any major SHTF, 10 years is even better. |
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. I think your time frame is waaayy optimistic. |
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. My opinion as well. |
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. I think your time frame is waaayy optimistic. I agree with C-4, slow decline over the next decade or longer. |
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. I would agree with this on the assumption that ALL things worldwide stay about the same. There a miriad of worldwide events that could accelerate the "slow decline". |
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The fear of US economic collapse is about as rational as Peak Oil. It's not going to collapse, but its going to change permanently. A lot of people won't even notice. Are these the same people who googled " Who is running for President " the day before the Election
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is kinda like a Bull Shark. You're treading water miles from land, you can't see him, but you know he's down there. The anxiety tears you apart because you know he'll strike, but when. Yes, that is how I have felt these last few years.
Anybody else feel this way Why let something that you have no control over whatsoever, eat at you like that? Not just you. But it seems like everyone in GD is like this. Jesus people. Live your lives. The world will go on! |
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I've felt the cost of everything, goods and monthly services, has gone up at a faster pace in the last couple years. And returns on "safe" investments seem to be next to nothing.
There may be a sudden event, but I've really felt a gradual increase and expenses and decline in ability to earn enough to keep up with the increase, in the last 2-3 years. |
| I'm thinking 2008 had the potential for a complete nosedive and we didn't even see it coming, it was only stymied by ungodly amounts of bailout money. What happens when all of these things that we do know about, come home to roost? I think it will get ugly quick. |
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99% of the people don't get the math. Exponentially growing entitlement spending, where the exponent is MUCH larger than the exponent of the GDP growth, assures economic destruction.
Whether the bond market cracks suddenly or we are all starved to death slowly by endless QE-up-the-ass, I don't know. There is no fucking way we make it 10-25 years though. |
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is kinda like a Bull Shark. You're treading water miles from land, you can't see him, but you know he's down there. The anxiety tears you apart because you know he'll strike, but when. Yes, that is how I have felt these last few years.
Anybody else feel this way Why let something that you have no control over whatsoever, eat at you like that? Not just you. But it seems like everyone in GD is like this. Jesus people. Live your lives. The world will go on! I have reminded myself many times about this. I believe the anxiety is about the amount of time that I need to complete some of my Goals. ( Do I have enough time ) |
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Yeah, I'm with you.
All you can do is prep. While there's still time, move your assets out of the USD. Do not believe the guys who say, "If we go down, the whole world goes down." They're wrong. The world didn't stop when the Pound Sterling lost its status as the world's reserve currency to the USD....and the world won't stop when the USD loses its status to something else. Move any 401k or IRA accounts in to foreign dividend paying infrastructure based stocks. Nothing in the Euro. Go heavy on where the currencies/economies are strongest. In no particular order: China, Norway, New Zealand, Canada, Singapore, and select others. Prep your home and family. Firearms training, food, water, PMs, meds, barter goods, any and all survival gear, etc. |
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Obama said that everything is fixed. That's good enough for me. I trust him. Who the hell wants to be President of the Titanic. This is just a time of power grabbing, not SHTF. ETA my friend Rick is helping Chinese invest their money. They are buying US stuff. They are over paying. What's to worry, it's Japan all over again. 
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. I sure hope you are correct, I need about 5 years (more) to prepare for any major SHTF, 10 years is even better. major SHTF? economy isnt going to collpase unless something truly horrible happens like a major die-off of people world wide so that there isnt enough folks to continue to produce what is being produced. or the yellowstone blows decimating the worlds ability to grow food or we get hit by a comet of invaded by space aliens. the slow and continuous decline of the standard of living in amerika is what we have to look forward to. will it get to the levels of greece? who knows. part of whats happening in greece is based on their historic culture and way of doing things. for amerika to reach their levels we will have to reach their level of laziness mixed with stupidity. look at a place like germany. same economic environment, very socialistic country but not in the dire situation of greece. economic collapse to me means, there is no monetary base anymore, dollars are worthless, you cant buy or sell with currency. everyone forts up and waits for zombies to show up. that simply isnt going to happen unless one of the above scenarios develops. i watch those prepper shows and the first thing i think of is when mom and pop get too old to hang out in their overstocked conex containers with their 10 years supply of peanut butter and spam and the kids have to decide what to do with the ole homeplace its gonna be hilarious. i live in the south. specifically an area that sherman burned his way through. folks got by then and muddled through and that was prolly worse than anything that will happen because the democrats and obama are in kontrol.. most folks these days have no historical perspective and simply join in with whatever hysteria happens to be in vogue. saw it in the 60s with the coming nuclear war, the 70s after the arab oil embargo and gold and silver went through the roof (pretty similar to todays times), y2k when all computers would explode and you wouldnt be able to get water and food, the first gulf war when all the gas masks sold out, never mind that iraq was 6000 miles away and how iraq was gonna gas north amerika as problematic..... |
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Quoted: Quoted: I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. My opinion as well. Myself as well. It will be a slow frog boil IMO. They know what they are doing even though some of us can already feel the heat. |
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Quoted: I think that was true before Obama.Quoted: Quoted: I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. My opinion as well. Myself as well. It will be a slow frog boil IMO. They know what they are doing even though some of us can already feel the heat. The socialists/communists see that the time is now. After this last election, they got validation for that they are doing––collapse the economy to show everyone how capitalism does not work. Bring on the pain, so the people beg for them to take over the economy and give everyone a job. Taxes will go up, spending will go up. I think 5-10 years now––given the current climate. |
im on the sooner rather than later train. The compounding interest equation created a textbook exponential increase in debt that broke down when the American consumer became tapped out... like a man at the dinner table.. he has undone his zipper and button, but he just cant eat any more, no matter how much you put in front of him. If the line had continued, everything would be normal, but the consumer became tapped out and someone had to step in and take over in his place. That feeble uptick is the attempt to keep kicking the can. It doesnt look like its working.
1950-55 around 86 million dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1955-60 around 108.5 million dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1960-65 around 178.9 million dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1965-70 around 269.7 million dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1970-75 around 558.1 million dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1975-80 around 1.15 billion dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1980-85 around 2.1 billion dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1985-90 around 2.8 billion dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1990-95 around 2.6 billion dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 1995-00 around 4.7 billion dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 2000-05 around 7.7 billion dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. 2005-10 around 5.9 billion dollars of new money requested from commercial banks per day. |
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i live in the south. specifically an area that sherman burned his way through. folks got by then and muddled through and that was prolly worse than anything that will happen because the democrats and obama are in kontrol.. The problem I have with this is that people back then took care of almost 100% of their needs. They ALL knew how to grow food, store food, etc. Now we have technology with which 0.5% of the population can grow 150% of the country's food. I can barely grow a garden in the back yard, much less without sevin dust. What the hell am I going to do when the food supply goes south? |
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. I suspect you're wrong. This will happen with the same rapidity that the 29 crash happened. Surely you remember the the last couple market crashes that happened, when it happens it will be at hyper speed. As for the gov raping and plundering, they are in the process of doing that now with the QE1, QE2, and the nest quatitative easing. We are fucked. We all have to admit that no one knows what is going to happen. But the U.S. gov't is in a great position to generate revenue for itself. Nationalization of retirement accounts (401K, IRA, Roth IRA, etc) alone would zero much of their debt immediately. Even if they don't go that far, they can still pass confiscatory level taxes (?50%) on what retirees take out. Yes, people will cry about how Roth IRA's shouldn't be taxed, but the FSA is not going to feel sorry for someone who has hundreds of thousands of dollars squirreled away for retirement. If the gov't plays it as a "national emergency", who will oppose them? There are consumption taxes such as federal internet purchase tax, federal sales tax, federal property tax, increased fuel taxes, etc. My parents grew up in communist Hungary. My paternal grandfather after WWII had everything taken away from him. He had a huge farm that included cattle, lots of land for grazing, acre after acre of plum, cherry, peach, apple orchards, a large vineyard where he made his own wine for commercial sale. Overnight, gone. Everything was collectivized and he wasn't even allowed to work the land anymore and was placed in a factory. The communists took everything from everyone. They even went into the churches and confiscated the gold and silver chalices. The collapse happened quickly because of the war and the communists gained power overnight, but it will go on in a much more organized fashion here in the U.S. The U.S. also has a lot more natural resources which will moderate the speed with which all this happens. |
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i live in the south. specifically an area that sherman burned his way through. folks got by then and muddled through and that was prolly worse than anything that will happen because the democrats and obama are in kontrol.. The problem I have with this is that people back then took care of almost 100% of their needs. They ALL knew how to grow food, store food, etc. Now we have technology with which 0.5% of the population can grow 150% of the country's food. I can barely grow a garden in the back yard, much less without sevin dust. What the hell am I going to do when the food supply goes south? well. the main point was to point out that people figure out how to get by. yes if the society is agrarian, depending on how that works (smaller more diverse farms probably better than plantations) they can provide for themselves easier and barter with their produce with their neighbors. but also, sherman's forces destroyed much of what they could get their hands on or appropriated it for themselves. and yet folks survived, maintained and their descendants are here today and it isnt because they had ammo forts, 10 years worth of provisions and bugout redoubts. it was because they figured out how to survive and get through hard times. i guess the other thing is, if you look at how bad the civil war was for a backdrop for hard times, it just doesnt make sense that the current situation could get to that point. of course anything can happen, but the world isnt going to go haywire because of quantitative easing. what IS going to happen, and is happening, is a continual degradation of the quality of life for my generation and the generations to come. that is unavoidable. i just dont see how you can start with the current economic variables and end up with with a complete economic breakdown. |
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You can't do anything about it. The debt ceiling is going to be raised again. Currently the debt is $500,000 per man, woman and child here. It's past the point of repayment. The US Dollar is losing its status as the World's Reserve Currency (7 out of ten Asian nations don't trade in the dollar but the Yuan, the Petro-Dollar is dying since Russia surpassed Saudi Arabia as the largest oil producer in the world, the BRICs trade with China in their own currency as does South Africa and Australia) and it doesn't help when the Ben Ber Nank prints mo' money (QE 1-2 and QE 3 Ad Infinitum). Free Trade has almost killed any production here (OK, we still grow a lot of food, make a lot of weapons and airplanes) in America. Here's an article by Karl Denninger at this Link.
However, you can prepare yourself and your family. Go to Arfcom's Surv Forum in Outdoors. The most important thing though is to have your spiritual mindset in order. |
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I wouldn't worry about a collapse anytime soon. There is a phenomenal amount of wealth and natural resources out there for the U.S. gov't to rape and plunder. We will have a slow, steady decline in our standard of living. Taxes and "fees" will continue to go up. Our liberties will slowly be rolled back. The gov't will eventually reach a point like Greece and then try to hyper-inflate the country out of debt. Then there will be an economic collapse, probably 10 to 25+ years from now, the time-frame depending on who is in power and how rapidly their policies bring us to the obvious endpoint. I suspect you're wrong. This will happen with the same rapidity that the 29 crash happened. Surely you remember the the last couple market crashes that happened, when it happens it will be at hyper speed. As for the gov raping and plundering, they are in the process of doing that now with the QE1, QE2, and the nest quatitative easing. We are fucked. We all have to admit that no one knows what is going to happen. But the U.S. gov't is in a great position to generate revenue for itself. Nationalization of retirement accounts (401K, IRA, Roth IRA, etc) alone would zero much of their debt immediately. Even if they don't go that far, they can still pass confiscatory level taxes (?50%) on what retirees take out. Yes, people will cry about how Roth IRA's shouldn't be taxed, but the FSA is not going to feel sorry for someone who has hundreds of thousands of dollars squirreled away for retirement. If the gov't plays it as a "national emergency", who will oppose them? There are consumption taxes such as federal internet purchase tax, federal sales tax, federal property tax, increased fuel taxes, etc. My parents grew up in communist Hungary. My paternal grandfather after WWII had everything taken away from him. He had a huge farm that included cattle, lots of land for grazing, acre after acre of plum, cherry, peach, apple orchards, a large vineyard where he made his own wine for commercial sale. Overnight, gone. Everything was collectivized and he wasn't even allowed to work the land anymore and was placed in a factory. The communists took everything from everyone. They even went into the churches and confiscated the gold and silver chalices. The collapse happened quickly because of the war and the communists gained power overnight, but it will go on in a much more organized fashion here in the U.S. The U.S. also has a lot more natural resources which will moderate the speed with which all this happens. Our commies will nationalize the resources our farm land as they did oversees with the same results and it will come crashing down with great rapidity. Confiscation of our pensions, IRAs 401Ks will just hasten the collapse. Nationalization of the retirement funds and pensions will not pay off the debt for any length of time. The only way, the only hope we have is that we expand our economy. Our current administration is dead set on destroying our economy, some time before the end of his term it will all come crashing down. There is not enough wealth in this country to wipe away our debt without our economy growing, cutting taxes, and living with in our means. When we fail, and we are going to, we are not Greece, Italy, Spain it will all come crashing down. We can not grow until we grow up and start to facilitate the use of all our natural resources. We possibly had a way of staving it off with Romney, but Obama is actively working towards letting it collapse, he will further unilaterally restrict our resources. |