[b]"Jew Crew?[/b]

Do I get a tee shirt if I join?
Are there hotel discounts like AAA has?

Good Lord.

I was born at a very young age.[:D] I'm of Russian (so I prolly have some Israelis in me somewhere) English, German, Irish, Cherokee descent. Yes, I'm a mut.

Born 4/27/67. I received Jesus Christ as my Savour at six years old. Most people who know me consider me overly serious, and I didn’t mingle well with kids my own age. I mingled better with the adults.

I was raised in a legalistic church, that did in fact teach that the antiChrsit would come thru Israel one day. They had a few Scriptures they thought backed up their position, but I didn’t really see it or embrace their position. (I know a few of you are gonna have a coronary over this, so I won’t even respond to you about it. I didn’t accept their teaching. Believe me or don’t – I really don’t care. The pastor of this church had a saying – “Draw your wax from many sources – but make YOUR OWN candle.” I did.)

What did grab my attention was the notion that national Israel no longer curried special favor with God. Only those in Christ Jesus did, and Israel was made up of all Jews and all Gentiles of all time that placed faith in Christ.

The idea sat latently with me all thru 11 years of  Christian school (first grade was wasted in the public hell hole) and four years of college (Bob Jones University) Ironically, both my Chrsitian HS and BJU were both dispensational and held to national Israel as God’s chosen people ( in the Biblical  sense of the term, shamayim. FWIW, I DO NOT know where you are coming from. I’d like more background from you particularly)

I kinda floated along for two years after graduating college with a BS in accounting.( Married Aug 1990) kinda politically clueless and burned out on my parents political activism. Its kinda funny, they regualrly picketed every one from Billy Graham and jerry Falwell to the Moscow travelling circus. I’d had enuf of that.

THEN Monica happened. Or more correctly, Bill’s big lie to the nation happened. It was at that point I relaized our political leaders could lie to us without reprisal. I went home and  got my guns from my parents home and bought my first AR shortly thereafter.

Somehow or other, the notion of a spiritual Israel, made up of all Jews and all gentiles of all times UNITED in Chrsit Jesus came back to me. I’ve basically spent the last 6+ years researching the idea Scripturally.

I can honestly say my ideas are my own. I don’t borrow from other authors without first having reserched myself. As much as one person can, I have mitigated biases that we ALL gather from our upbringing. Again, most people who know me KNOW ME to be wildly independent, and a free thinker. Again, beleive me, or don't. I don't really care.

I work in industry as a CPA. I have no affiliations to any philosopical groups, other than the NRA and some local gun organizations. I don’t support any ideologies, foreign or domestic, other than Scripture, and the US Constitution.

THAT is what I meant by full disclosure. Some of yours were pretty poor.

The WHY of all this later.

The T-shirt is already out there. See the IDF threads [:D]

"Jew Crew" was a term I coined that, at the time, most of the "usual suspects" kinda liked and thought was cool.

No offense intended by it and, and it garnered no offense upon its first use.

You knew EXACTLY who I meant tho, didn't ya????

[}:D]

Post from BenDover -

Yes, I always tend to believe the 'media' on all things that pertain to the Christian faith!

[b]Not![/b]

What you have presented so far, is anecdotal evidence that some particular congregations of folks who claim to be Christians have messed up, and messed up badly!

[b]Now, how is that an indictment of an entire movement?[/b]

When the 'Rev. Jerry Falwell stood up and said that Sept 11th was God's judgment on America, Christian fundamentalists everywhere said 'Sit down and shut up!'

Maybe it would be helpful for us to agree on a definition of Christian fundamentalism, for you have included groups that I would never have considered 'fundamentalist', such as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

In the 1920s, certain Protestant churches met to develop what the bottom line of Biblical Christianity might be. They came up with a listing of some core beliefs that were so 'fundamental' to their faith, that every Christian should recognize them. These beliefs were:

1. The literal inerrancy of the Scriptures

2. The second coming of Jesus Christ

3. The virgin birth of Jesus Christ

4. The physical resurrection of the body

5. The substitutionary atonement for sin by Jesus Christ's crucifixion

6. The sinfulness of man

To which some denominations have added a few. In my own Church of Christ denomination, there has been added:

7. The necessity of immersion baptism of adult believers

8. The need for weekly communion of all saints
(what we refer to as 'The Lord's Supper)

Other denominations have added a few of their own requirements.

Strange, [b]BenDover[/b], I see nothing about the need to exercise mind control, molest any children, commit any thefts, practice any bigotry/racism, destroy any marriages, destroy any families, destroy anyone's self esteem, perpetuate ignorance, or promulgate any antisocial themes.

You'd think if such 'crimes' were a part of Christian fundamentalism, they would at least be mentioned!

Nope. But it is obvious [b]BenDover[/b] that you may have suffered at the hands of other human beings, who clothed whatever evil they may have done in some sort of 'Christian' practice.

They were wrong! Dead wrong. And any such folks will be severly dealt with by an angry God whenever He comes to judge the earth.

In the meanwhile, simply ask yourself, what would Jesus have me do. And then do it!

[u]That[/u], and [u]that[/u] [u]alone[/u], is Christian fundamentalism in a nutshell!

Eric The(ChristianFundamentalist)Hun[>]:)]

More importantly, the kind of people who kill, rape, steal and commit other atrocities in teh name of "religion"....

WHY would anyone expect them to be TRUTHFUL and NOT LIARS about any affiliaiton with the Chrsit of the Bible???

Be mad at religion if ya want to, but don't tell me people who commit atrocities are gonna be truthful about their motivations.

Only YOU Eric could make such a mountain out of that. You always hafta bash me about something - can you EVER say anything nice, genuinely complimentary about me?? [rolleyes] Something like, "Gee garandman, I applaud you for freely revealing where your biases MIGHT come from, and what you've done to recognize them." [rolleyes]

I'm not gonna bother responding to the rest of your flatulence.

It bores and tires me.

What happened Eric???? Was that post even too hateful for you????

"Jew Crew" indeed...aligning yourself with atheists, islamo/facists,and neo nazis...and calling yourself Christian....interesting company

How much "insert insult here"(edited due to peer pressure) blood or palistinian blood do you have in your family tree...albeit hanging by one appendage and begging for bananas..

You wanna talk damage done in the name of Christ..lets talk damage done in the name of  satan and his various avatars throughout human history.

..The communist -atheist butchers ...Stalin...Mao...Pol Pot...Castro.

or the satan/occult murderers of Catholics, and Jews by  the Nazis..

or the Roman Empire..and their satanic deities ..the idol worshipers throughout human history loving human sacrifice...

or todays satanic/islamic regimes that wrap explosives around their children and detonate them in day care centers and schools and cafeterias and on public buses.
And throw parties celebrating murder and collect monetary remuneration for their children's suicide/homocides

Lets talk the atheist/butchers of america sacrificing tens of millions of pre born children ...

yes much harm has been done in the name of Christ by false worshipers..but the truth is this evil done by man is not in His book nor did He ever advocate it..

And lets tell the truth about how much evil has done apart from the name of God...

He does not deny us the right to self defense or to take action against those plotting to anihilate us and our children and our country..

And BTW there is not one drop of "Jewish" blood in my family..in fact my family doesnt particulary like Jews..due to "atheist" Jewish militants targeting our family business at one time and "aetheist" lawyers of  Jewish descent lying in court to hurt us..but I attribute their evil deeds more to them practicing the  "Atheist" faith rather than being Jewish...

Regardless this does not alter the fact of the covenant of Abraham and those descendants ..who stil worship the one true God...and who will come to know His son in time..Who God has set apart ..this inspite of Garandmans ability to use God's word to line up with his own heart and reflect its own dark shadow..and using God's gift to him to mislead others...

Even the president of the USA and most of America believe that the pledge alliegance needs to contain the words "Under God" hardly the words of  atheist nation...imo to be an atheist is to be anti American...and to try to impose this anti American view on others is tantamount to treason...and if atheists are allowed to dictate policy in their moral vacume and to lead our country  then we are imo lost...

...the ultimate destruction of One Nation Under God and the destruction of a people
will come from withing rather than without.

A nation of people (in the Presidents words)..whose rights do not come from government but come from God...for if rights do not come from God then they must come from man and if they come from man ..then man can take them away...

America will cease to exist as a free nation and will default either into a slave state a total statist nation, or a nation of slaves to some occult religon..it is Judeau Christian relationship to the one true God.. that has made us a great nation...but it is Christ Himself who keeps us free...when we fully deny Him ..we will fall....as Israel found out in the old Testament...

No, I simply thought better about smacking you around for not knowing the truth, when you should have long known the truth.

I thought Christ warned us to be as wise as serpents? I've been mistrusting our government since age 10, in 1962, after the Bay of Pigs!

I was quite a precocious child. [:D]

So I deleted my post.

Got problems with that?

Eric The(AlwaysThoughtful)Hun[>]:)]

Geez, divdoc.

Did ya sit on a porcupine???

[}:D]

You pulled every stereotype in the playbook. From that standpoint, THIS is a masterful post.

No, I'm more intrigued by your inability to say anything genuinely and sincerely complimnetary about me.

Unless I am the antiChrsit Himself, there must be something.

Oddly, you ALWAYS manage to miss it.

Intriguing.

I'm Greek-American and a Greek Orthodox christian.

I grew up in Greece on an AFB, my grandfather was in WW1, my dad was in WW2, Korea (short time) and Vietnam.

AND MY VOTE IS FOR THE JEWS.

[b]garandman[/b], you are right that I never say anything about the 95% of stuff that we both agree on.

That is a grievous fault of mine, but I do think that we both share it, right?

It may be that the 5% that we don't agree on absolutely sends me through the roof!

So I'm so busy rattling about the 5%, that I forget about the 95%.

Which must be easy to do! Right?

Eric The(Repairman)Hun[>]:)]

Look on this VERY page.

I covered your six  on a post with BenDover.

So, NO, its not that easy to do. It requires work.

Post from garandman -

Yes you did. We were both doing Our Father's business this morning.

So, thank you. [:D]

Eric The(HEThanksYouAsWell)Hun[>]:)]

Wow! My ancestors...brings a tear to my idol worshiping, satanic deity following, human sacrificing eyes...
[:D]

I suppose a simple "I'm sorry" without legal disclaimer excusing your actions is too much to hope for, so "Your welcome."

[shaking head]

G---man,
You don't know where I'm coming from? Half a hundred posts on the Israel thing and my feelings about it haven't been clear?  OK, let's see if some bio info will help.

Born April 24, 1939 (like you, an April Taurus) Springfield, Mass to parents who both had come from Europe. Father, born in France had come as a child when his folks left Paris because of the anti semitism at the time of the Dreyfus Affair. Mother, born and half raised in Lithuania, brought here by a father who had been in the US for a number of years working to save enough top bring the rest of the family over. This was just after WW1 and she'd had the experience of hiding in caves while the Germans and Russians were fighting it out in the small town she lived in.

Both parents terribly proud to be Americans.  Mother even changed her name from Shayna Rachel to Rose Jane, so she'd be more "American". I was raised to believe that being an American was the greatest thing that could happen to a person, and still do believe it.

Enlisted in the Mass National Guard three months after I got old enough to do so , and six months later, after college wasn't going so well, voluntered for active duty. Spent nearly three years with the 82nd Airborne at Fort Bragg.  I've never taken a penny of GI Bill money, because I've always considered it both an honor, and the duty of every American to serve, and I won't cheapen the honor or minimize the duty by taking a pay off (my own nuttiness, I guess).

Why the Airborne? Beccause I'd spent six months as a "VISTA" type volunteer in an Israeli  program where young people go to work on farms. For reasons too complicated to go into here, I ended up in a settlement in the Negev run by a unit of the IDF that set up armed farm settlements in areas where it was considered too dangerous for civilian groups to go. Found out that I was a lousy cow milker, but they kept me around because I was the best rifle shot in the place, after 4 years of small bore and high power competition as a junior member of the NRA. (First .22 at age 13; first high power an '03 Springfield at age 14), and I didn't mind pulling long shifts on the watch tower. Ended up going into Sinai, in October '56 with 1/2 the unit that was called to act as backup for the Paras at the Mitla Pass, and had developed a great respect for the Airborne.  Besides, it seemed a shame to waste combat experience I'd already had in Quatermaster (you know, "where all the Jews go")

(Have to take care of some family stuff now. Will continue more later)

great read, shamayim.

Yer suddenly a WHOLE lot more human and real to me. I love your candidness.

I'll look forward to the rest.

Post from shamayim -

'More later'? [b]Why?[/b]

You're one of my heroes [u]now[/u] with what you've already posted!

Oh, all right, go ahead and 'gild the lilly' if you wish. [:D]

Eric The(Impressed)Hun[>]:)]

Been interesting so far. I think I know some of you a little better.
My branch of the Adams family immigrated from England to Plymouth in 1630, and lived in Ipswitch Mass. in 1635. Robert Adams was a tailor. We have documented the family back to Modin or Odin, (Roman Orthenus), King of Northern Europe in 225 AD. The list includes 2 kings of Wessex, one "The Pious, one "The Thane", and William, (The Conqueror), winner of the battle of Hastings, and King of England. Sam and John Adams were cousins. My guys were militia-men several of whom later joined the regulars.
I was born in May '48 2 days after the founding of the modern state of Israel. My father was catholic, my mother episcapalion, (both nominally so). While I've been a believer since about age 11 or 12, I've not always been a very obiedient one. I am a lover of history, and do a lot of reading. I've been exposed to "Christian identity" enough so to conclude that while an interesting theory, it's not relevant to what I believe G*d wants me to be about. While I support the idea of a "Jewish" homeland"(NEVER AGAIN), I do not support the idea of our govt taking our,(the citizens) money and giving it to anyone, (I am not a socialist, nor an "internationalist"). I am an American Nationalist, (not to be confused with nazi), and believe our foreign policy is, and has been for many years skewed towards international socialism. I have never heard of Israel Shahak or his book. I do believe however, that it's a good idea to get info from a variety of sources while coming to a conclusion of the truth...

Another thread posted by "Johnny One Note."

What the hell is it with you and Jews?

Give it a rest already.

Just wanted to add here, while I was living on St. Maarten, (Dutch West Indies), in 1972, I met a former Captain in the IDF. He was a tank platoon commander who took part in the assault on the Golan heights in the '67 war. He was very clear about the fact,(and had some interesting stories to back it up), that both he and MANY others believed that with out the supernatural intervention of G*d, they would have had their clocks cleaned....

Actually, if you check, you'll find I VERy rarely initiate an "Israel" thread.

Why would I need to? The "Jew Crew" are responsible for about a dozen a day. [:D] Tell THEM "Johnny One Notes" to diversify [:D]

Besides, its more y'all responses that fascinate and educate me.

That's the spirit - raw, naked capitalism.

If yer serious, I'd love to see pics.

I'll even let ya photoshop me wearing one (after I check with my Hamas lawyers) [}:D]

Blah Jews Blah blah blah Palestine blah blah  goyim blah blah gentiles. You suck blah blah.

Pretty much sums up most of these types of threads.

Is there a point to all this? Anywhere?

PART 2 of Info for Garandman

Rather than bore you with a step by step recitation of my life, which like most is pretty boring most of the time, let me give you a couple of "snapshots" of events that have shaped my attitudes and may help explain why I express some of the opinions you've seen on this site.

When I was about 8 or 9 my mother got a phone call from a cousin in Maine, telling her that a cousin of theirs in Lithuana had survived the Holocaust along with her daughter, and had made it to South Africa.  It was the first time I ever saw my mother cry and I naturally got upset and scared.  I thought she was crying about the 20+ aunts, uncles, cousins, etc who'd been killed by the Nazis. My dad took me aside and explained that her tears were joyful.  She thought they had all died.

Growing up in Massachusetts, I got to know a lot of Irish kids, and to make matters "worse" my dad, who played tenor banjo, spent 6 or 7 years with an Irish dance band, all of whom,except him, had been born and raised in Ireland.  The boys in the band thought it was great fun to teach "Marty's kid" all the old rebel songs.  I learned the Irish national anthem, "The Soldier's Song" about the same time I was learning "Hatikvah" Israel's national anthem (but well after I learned "The Star Spangled Banner").  What I also learned from them was that you have to be willing to fight for what you believe--with words when appropriate----with guns when necessary.

About 30 years ago, this fairly secular Jew ended up as the Youth and Informal Education Director of the largest synagogue in Atlanta.  As you might imagine, dealing with the sometimes spoiled and over indulged children of a fairly wealthy congregation was often a strain; so I made a copy of a very famous photo---a little Jewish kid in Warsaw in 1943--- with his hands in the air, and a German soldier with a Kar 98 pointed at him, as he stood at the head of a line of others, waiting to be loaded onto a freightcar going to Treblinka. Any time the spoiled brats started getting to me, I'd go into my office, look at the picture, and remind myself the I'd rather have them spoiled than dead.  The photo is now on the mantle of my fireplace, with my family pics.

In my later life, I've been blessed with a lovely wife, who tho born in Tennessee was raised in Israel (a former leading lady with the Haifa State Theater), and a beautiful son, who's all excited about starting Kindergarten next week.

Garandman, for me there is no inconsistency in loving and supporting both the country of my birth, and the country of my people.  The folks I feel sorry for are Moslem Americans whose family roots are in the Arab world. They are the ones who have to make choices about what they are going to support.  Israel and the USA are two peas from the same pod, and it grieves me that there are Americans who have a hard time seeing that. For many of us, it ain't about the money. It's about what's right.

I try to live my life according to three ancient Hebrew sayings

1) Do not unto thy neighbor that which is hateful unto thee (our version of the Golden Rule)

2)Am Yisroel Chai (the People of Israel Live)

3)Dahm Yisroel No'ke'am (the Blood of Israel will be Avenged)

Sadly, I've been spending an increasing amount of time in recent years thinking about #3

Fascinating and at times moving, shamayim.

But one part stuck out to me.




The devilish thing about foreign allinaces, the type that our first president warned us all AGAINST, is that they change with the wind.

The same USA that now befriends Israel has in the past and will again befriend israel enemies.

Now, while israel accepts US largesse, Israel is developing a welfare- like dependency on US aid. WHEN the tide turns, its makes life for Israel that much worse.

what SEEMS good now MAY one day lead to Israels collapse.

Today we violate the eternally true for temporal convenience. To the ultimate detriment of the country of your birth.

Anyway, thanks for the openness. I think I understand you better, and will read your posts with a different eye.

No Jewish blood, just a non-denominational Christian, as others have said.  Raised by a step-father who hated Jews, maybe that's why I recognize the symptoms when I see them.  I respect the hell out of the Israelis and how they don't take much crap.

I don't get into all the religious connotations and think they are pointless, sorry ETH.  I just know right and wrong, and the Palestinians and their Arab (and American) backers are just flat wrong.  If there was never another suicide bombing, the Israelis would initiate NO action against the Palestinians and would live in peace with them.  It has been stated by some Palestinian (a made up term to refer to scum kicked out of every Arab country in the region)groups that they want all Israelis to die and for Israel to cease to exist.  That is flat wrong.  Certain Arab neighbors have stated the same.  They want to turn it back into the barren wasteland that it was before the nation of Israel was established.

As for Constitutional issues, I think it has been shown in MANY posts that the government has the right to make treaties with other countries, so the 'unconstitutional' cries don't wash.  As for the 'cut of aid to all' crowd, that's bull.  The so-called Palestinians are backed by several Arab countries, not by us, and 'cutting off aid to all' amounts to isolating Israel and leaving them at the mercy of surrounding countries, some of whom have only made peace with Israel under duress from us.  Without this duress, there would be all out war by these countries against Israel.  Of course, that might just suit the 'cut of aid to all' crowd, because it really means 'cut off aid to Israel and let them die'.

Sieg Heil, Herr Garandtrollman.  


Me?  No Jewish ancestry as far as I know.  Scottish/German/Cherokee ancestry--100% AMERICAN by birth!  (And who the hell cares anyway--ACTIONS make the man!)

Do I love Jews?  Sure.  Jesus said love thy neighbor.  Why don't you Mr. Christian?  

As far as Israel goes, they have the right to inhabit that patch of desert.  Jews have inhabited that area for millennia (FYI, that's a real long time).  The backward Muslims weren't really doing anything productive with it, so why not let the Jews have a homeland after nearly being wiped from the planet?  (BTW, the Muslims have the rest of the region to waste anyway).  

Despite what the anti-Semites say, Israel does a good job of managing a very hostile situation--Pal.s can vote for Pete's sake.  They are a democracy and are a civilized, industrialized nation unlike anything else in the entire region.  Notwithstanding all that U.S.S. Liberty hubbub, Israel is one of our most loyal allies and the relationship serves both the U.S.' and Israel's interests.  

Why don't you just admit, Herr Garandman, that you just don't like the Jews?  Yeah, I know, reality sucks.

But ETH, that IS what you asked for.



You asked for a list of recent atrocities by anyone claiming to be a Christian fundamentalist. I provided your verbatim quote above in case there is some lapse in memory or confusion as to what you were requesting. Just because it wasn't front-page newspaper (well actually some of it WAS frontpage news) material does it mean that it is irrelevant or doesn't meet the criteria of what you requested.

I  have studied similar situations in MANY denominations. Human evil knows no boundary or organizational limitation. But you don't want to hear about it. You do not wish to recognize the fact it has a tremendous, negative impact upon the lives and attitudes of casual, or even not-so-casual observers. You don't want to read the amassed library of information that I have because it will show you the magnitude of corruption and heinous evil perpetrated upon many countless lives by so-called-Christians under the guise of spiritual direction and leadership. You are afraid of the truth here. When I am done adding up all of these "meaningless anecdotes", the sum does not show an isolated problem with some fringe organization. It's more than you want to recognize or could even stomach.

Nowhere have I endicted the entire Christian faith on the basis of the acts of some morally devient perpetrators. I could not do that anymore than I could endict the entirety of those who practice the Jewish faith or even Islam for the actions of a subset of radical fundamentalists who twist the interpretation of their respective doctrines into an endorsement of their heinous actions.

But you cannot sit there and tell me that I have to overlook these acts by what you claim to be a few anecdotal incidents anymore than I can sit here and overlook the WTC attack perpetrated under similar pretenses by a subset of the larger faith of Islam. The actions of the few DO make a difference to many people. You cannot whitewash it and say, "Bless God, that's not representative of a true Christian/Muslim/Jew", when to many(most) people, it's all one in the same. To many people, all Muslims are evil. To others all Jews are evil. Likewise, some people hold an opinion that much of Christianty is represented by the acts of extremists.

In my observation, the common thread between ALL of these groups is the phenomenon that radical extremism is most prevalent in the fundamentalist subsets of all three faiths. I also observe many human atrocities being committed in the name of God, Yaweh, and Allah by similarly dogmatic fundamentalists. There's a common theme here with these so-called "fringe" groups. Consequently, I shudder when someone comes at me saying they are a "fundamentalist". My immediate reaction is based upon my experiences and observations of not just Christian, but Jewish and Muslim fundamentalists. Fundamentalism represents one thing to me..... a closed mind willing to do whatever it takes to preserve their own version of reality.

Yes, mine and many other's families suffered greatly at the hands of a twisted, so-called fundamentalist, Christian ministry and congregation. This was not a small, backwoods church. This was a very large group. But, don't think for a second that I have abandoned the concept of a higher spiritual power. The difference is that in the practical application of my faith, there are no labels. There's no name for God. Nor are there any ritualistic interpretations of how I edify or worship my interpretation of god. Nor are there any organizational rules which dictate my relationship with my god. It's supposed to be a personal relationship to begin with and the whole concept of zealously prostrating my faith in public for egotistical satisfaction ("Oh look at what a great Christian man I am") means nothing in the scope of my faith.

That is a hard pill for evangelical Christians to swallow. They want to label me as some agnostic or even a moral relativist. The truth of the matter is that I am just me. I am just a dude who knows what he knows. I am the sum of my experiences and my observations. It just so happens that in those experiences and observations, so-called fundamentalist christians represent nearly the same things that fundamentalist muslims represent. Dogmatic zeal to the level of discrediting or destroying anything which contradicts the belief. Hell, even these religious threads on AR15.com go a long way to reinforce my beliefs.

I respect you for your scholarly pursuits and journalistic ability. From all that I can gather, you are a good-ol'-boy, countryfied guy like me. We'd probably have a grand time by a campfire sharing ideas and views. That is because you represent yourself as being somewhat open to other points of view. I have no direct, personal issue with anyone. I do view life as being too short and having too many opportunities to learn and become further enlightened within my human condition to become stagnant inside of some repressive organization designed to ritualize that which is ultimately a personal experience.

You can bet your ass that I will never persecute or berate, let alone KILL someone over my own personal, spiritual experiences. I have no right to place any of my subjective experiences over that of another. It sounds like moral relativism, but it really isn't. I promise. [;D]

Ya know, you are the first guy ever to try the Nazi association game to shout down stuff you don't like.

I predict lots of people will emulate this new and innovative approach you have created.

ilikelegs -

Give this guy a "Jew Crew" t-shirt when you get them printed up. And send me the bill.

[:D]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, must be a duck.

Same holds true for....[size=4]PARROTS!!!!!!!!![/size=4]


BWAAAAAHAHAAHAAHAHAAHAH!!!!  LOL!!!

Relax dude. I'm no threat to the state of Israel, a single Jewish person, or even to Yiddish folk songs.

I don't know Gman, just when I'm about to write you off as a blatant anti-semite you make some comments that actually sound like you may be a decent person. First, because of this I will apologize for the F*-off comment. Then I'll tell you why I may be hypersensitive to anti-semitism.
My parents were born in a town in what is now Belarus called Gleboyke in 1921. In 1939, the year they were married the nazis invaded and occupied the town. The 1st thing the nazis did was separate the elderly and sick from the young and created 2 ghettos. My parents and their first child, my brother were in the "young ghetto". My grandparents on both sides went to the "old ghetto". There were thousands living were there were once only a few hundred. Eventually the old ghetto was liquidated. All the old and sick who had not starved to death were marched into the forest, forced to dig their own graves and were machine gunned to death. The other ghetto was left to slave labor for almost a year. An announcement was made for those who wanted food to go to the square. My mother physically restrained my father until they heard the machine guns mowing down the 80% of the young ghetto that showed up. Then, the nazis methodically went block-by-block killing any man, woman or child they found. My parents and their 11 month old son hid in a dry well. Eventually they ran out of water and decided to make a run for it. My father first carried his wounded brother out. He was hit and killed. My father then grabbed the baby and ran back out. The baby, huddled to his chest was hit in the head, stopping the bullet meant for my father. He ran back for my mother but she was gone. All this time people were dying all around him. He made it to the woods and wondered for days. He came upon the partisans and was almost shot. But my mother had made it there and her cousin was the partisan commander. Both my parents fought with the underground until the red army made it that far west. My father could have gone east, but sought revenge. He joined the red army and became a tank commander. He got that revenge. In 1946 he found my mother ( a long and miraculous story) and deserted to the US zone in Munich. After a year in a DP camp, they immigrated to Wash DC where I was born in 55. When I was 3 we moved to Arizona. My dad always taught me to never put up with a bigot. It got me into trouble more than once. I was the only Jew in my elementary school, and though I had many friends who didn't care about my faith, those that hassled me got their asses kicked. My dad taught me to shoot at 8. I am now in the business of selling military aircraft parts and am also an FFL. I have a beautiful wife a 3 great kids. I remain loyal to my faith. I also support Israel. But, I am an American 1st and a Jew 2nd. I know this point of view may offend those both Christian and Jewish who put religion first. But America is more than a country to me. It's an idea that is a sum of all that’s right with humanity. With all the good and bad, it's still the best. I have been to Israel many times and thought about moving there. But I decided this is my home and I would defend it with my life. This is the short version. But all in all it should explain my point of view. And why rightly or wrongly the Jew Crew title pushed my button.

No worries, man.

I think people see me as antiSemitic becasue they THINK they know what I beleive. Or they THINK they know what motivates my beleifs. Admittedly, I play (not intentionally) into their misconceptions, making it easier for them to think this. I try not to do it, but I'm sure it happens.

re: the rest of your story / family history, I have two comments:

1. Your willingness to share it puts a human face on you for me - helps me understand you. That's a good thing, and why I shared my OWN story, even revealing where bias MIGHT come from in my life.

2. I gotta ask -

Do you REALLY think I'm anything like the people who gunned down teh villages you spoke of??? Don't you think I find that repugnant?? Don't you think that if that happened to you, or ETH, or shamayim or anyone else that I would lay down my life to prevent it???And lastly, do you think I'd do that BECAUSE you are Jewish, or just because you are human???

The same part of me that thinks that you aren't entitled to LESS as a Jew makes me think you aren't entitled to MORE as a Jew.

This is balance. This is unbiased. This stance alone is, IMO, compeltely without bigotry. Bigotry in FAVOR of one race is bigotry AGAINST another race, when I am of NEITHER race. To favor the Jewish nation with US tax dollars is to be bigotted against the African nations who receive no US aid.

Why is this important? because bigotry in FAVOR of Israel pushes the pendulum way to one side, and a corresponding swing  of the pendulum back, AGAINST Israel MUST and WILL happen. And when that pendulum swings against israel, we're well on our way to a never ending pendulum swing never to be gained control of.

As for numner 2, no. If I thought you were a nazi I wouldn't give you the time of day. But as for the rest, I've posted ad nausium why I believe Israel is of strategic value. Am I biased? Of course! But I feel the same way about the Canadians, British, Australians ect. This is a global issue, this war on terrorism that threatens our way of life. There is a lot I can't tell you, you'll have to take me at my word on this. While having never been active military like Shamayim, I am very invloved with US defense contracts. We are also involved in tactical training. And will be expanding that side of the business soon. The allies the US can depend on in time of war are few. The ones I mentioned above and Israel. Answer this if you will. If your life, or those that you loved were at risk, and you HAD to chose between the Saudis, Israelis or the French, who would you choose to come to your aid as an American?

Being a stubborn, pigheaded and wildly independent individual, I'd prolly be either dead or near death before I even called on my own family for help.

But of the three choices, clearly it would be an Israeli (if I knew NOTHING of the three individuals charachter)

But that is hardly basis to determine internation policy on, for the reasons I;ve stated above, and as alluded to in George Washintons Farewell Address of 1796.

OK,
Here goes...
Do I care if Saddam gets nukes? NO. Why? If he nukes iz off the map, who cares? He would still sell us all the oil we could use. If his prices got to be too high thru being a monopoly, why Russia will sell us oil and Alaska is just bursting with it. Case solved.
If Jesus wants to come back to Israel, then if the city was nuclear glass or not, makes not one bit of diff to the Son Of God who can create man out of dust. I think He could rebuild His city in a twinkling of an eye. Old masonary means nothing. Never has.
The strategic importance of iz? Hahahahahaha! It has none. What in the world do we care if they are there or not? Not one bit. The only ones that care are misguided fundamentalists that have somehow been told to protect iz. Wow.I am fundamentalist as they come and I have NEVER heard anything about protecting iz for any reason. Especially since there are none. With the overwhelming power of the jewish lobby in this country, the subsidizing of iz has become a pro forma thing.
I personally could care less what nationality someone is, what diff does it make? None. So if you bed wetting iz cheerleaders want to send hard earned tax dollars there, then please do so with my blessing and your own money. But for my money, spend it HERE IN THIS COUNTRY!!!! Lets help AMERICA FIRST, EH? Pretty radical statment huh? Boy that would be a switch, turn off  the tap to foreign aid and take care of ourselves and our poor and underpriveledged for a change.
And btw, ETH, these people you call Jews... are jews. With the destruction of the Temple, and the diaspora, they ceased to be. If there is no high priest, no temple, no ark, no offerings to God, no knowledge of what tribe you come from if from any at all, then you are a jew, not a Jew. Non disputable facts.
America for the Americans, and our money for us and our own. Let the world go twirl itself. Gotta say I am sick to death of everyone in every 3rd world hellhole taking our money and food and turning around and blowing up our emabassies and chanting death to America. I say give them nothing. Period. Nobody. Shut the faucet off. And then you will hear them scream good and proper.

Enough. Basta. Arretez. Finis.

Iz is worth Nothing, and if its ppl dont like getting blown up by nutty Moslems, then pack up and move, or kill every last one of them. But it is none of Americas business. Nor is it worth one dime of our money.

Dram

Thank god the people who actually make these decisions think differently.

Ya, it's called "conversation", ya know, thats that shit ya do when ya wanna get to know someone better, and maybe even LEARN something...jeesh.....

Helldog40 you are one seriously cool brother. Good on ya'!

Thanks for your reply, [b]HellDog40[/b], I do appreciate you bringing me up to speed on your personal experiences.

I cannot, however, sit lidly by while someone, anyone, attacks Christian fundamentalism as just another group of fundamentalists bent on destroying other folks, willy-nilly, based upon their particular beliefs.

To my knowledge, there is simply no nationally recognized Christian fundamentalist groups that are calling for the wholesale slaughter of any based upon their religious views.

Can you say the very same thing about Islamic fundamentalism? Nope. There are entire movements of Islamic fundamentalists that view any attack upon 'infidels' as worthy of their god's approval.

Can you think of any Christian fundamentalist groups that advocate the killing of abortion doctors? Nope. While there could be scattered groups of a few individuals that have banded together to murder abortionists, you simply will not find the name of their organization in any telephone book.  They operate outside of the Christian fundamentalist denominations.

Period.

So by simply using the precise term 'Christian fundamentalist', which has a clearly defined and accepted meaning, as a term to be paired together with 'Islamic fundamentalist', there is the implication that such views are equally reprehensible!

While there may be 'Islamic fundamentalists' that do not wish to fly hi-jacked commercial airliners into the buildings of the infidels, they must be few and far between, for I have heard none yet who was willing to condemn the attack of Sept 11th, without using the word, 'but', as in 'but you know there are legitimate grievances against the United States.'

Have you?

Eric The(ChristianFundamentalist)Hun[>]:)]  

So [b]Eric[/b] I suppose that you believe I was 'attacking' fundamentalist Christians now don't you. Come on.... be honest....

Well, let's see, from your first post:

Yes, without any qualification, I would say that this is an attack on Christian fundamentalism, especially when I specifically defined Christian fundamentalism in the very next post and, instead of correcting any mistaken impression that I might have, you continued to point to 'so-called Christian fundamentalist idiots I have known.'

Well, I have known as few myself, but those few aside, there is no factual basis for your assertion that Christian fundamentalism, as that term is accurately defined, has [u]anything[/u] in common with 'Islamic fundamentalism' as that term is universally understood and defined.

If you meant otherwise, then I have simply misunderstood you and apologize.

Eric The(ChristianFundamentalist)Hun[>]:)]

Actually all your "facts" are not only disputable, I would call it BS as opposed to facts. You have either a very one sided view of history or you don't want to know the truth. I'm not going to get into a religious despute with you or anyone else. I respect anyone of faith even if they have no faith. It's a personal choice. I draw the line when someone tries to shove their faith down my throat. Much the same way as you don't want your tax dollars to pay for Israel. The difference is that you can vote your conscience and hope for the best. As far as us Jews not existing, we usually have the last laugh. We have survived the Amalekites, Assyrians,Persians, Greeks, Romans, Spanish inquisiters, nazis and we'll be around when our current enemies are in the dustbin of History. The Torah is eternal with or without the Temple, which G*d willing will be rebuilt.
By the way, the Tribes aren't and never were important. The Priestly castes are still relevant for the rebuilding of the Temple. Thats why we still have Cohanim, Levites and the rest of us are Israel. These traditions are kept alive as it will always be.

How is recanting my own personal experience (read that... factually occurred in the real, tangible world) initiating an attack? I was simply making a reference to something that happened, not only to me, but to many other people.