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Posted: 7/31/2002 11:26:58 AM EDT
What is your opinions on LE owning and or using armored personnel carriers, tanks, Humvees, ect? I ,for one, think it is uncessary. It also makes the police look like an occuping force-"were here to kill not help!" CRC
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:38:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:39:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 11:40:55 AM EDT by DriftPunch]
I think that a couple of armored riot control vehicles for a state police bureau (large juristiction) is ok, as riots sometimes do happen. Maybe more, maybe less depending on how prone the area is to "going off". IMO, anything beyond this is fiscally wrong as well as falling into the militarization category. Kind of like how the Fish and Wildlife bureau has submachine guns in their toolbox. It's done because they can....
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:41:48 AM EDT
Tell ya what, let me buy and drive an M1A2 to work every day, (or even an M2 Bradly, or M113) and I couldn't care less if some LEO uses one. Else wise, they have no need for one, and no right to have one. -Or, maybe I missed that Ammendment. . . . Something about special rights for gov' employee's???? Thier job is dangerus. . . they should use thier HEAD instead of brute force to overcome that. -Justin
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:48:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:48:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 11:51:31 AM EDT by 2whiskeyP]
We are allowed to own one. I've seen websites that you can buy used rebuilt tanks etc. I am actually interested in buying a Ferret from armyjeeps.net. Of course they are demilled as far as the guns go but anything other than a large cal cannon can be replaced with a semi-auto. I wonder what the LEOs have that would stop a civilian owned armored vehicle. Could be interesting.[50] <---Hey look, I'm in triple digits!!
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:52:55 AM EDT
I've always wanted one myself. It'd be the perfect hunting/fishing vehicle for Texas. Just think of it! Rifle racks inside, Fishing rod racks on the front, plenty of room for coolers and generators on top, bunk beds, a tent that folds out the back ramp, massive storage space. It'll laugh at sand on the beach and swim all those cuts that stop regular 4 wheel drives. Tide coming up the beach? Not a problem any more. For hunting, it'd sure beat a truck. everything above, and something to knock down cedar trees besides. Granted, it's a little heavy on diesel, but probably no more than a Chevy 1 ton crew cab locked in 4WD. I bet you could hook one heck of an AC unit to it too. I really need to talk to that guy that sells refurbished Deuce's and 5 tons in Cedar Park.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:11:49 PM EDT
LAPD could prbably use an armored brigade. Every time some career criminal gets shot by the police or ruffed up on apprehension,they're in need of a little "reconnaissance in force"[:)] Anyone else,no way!Thats why they have those big horseys,shields and katanas.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:49:43 PM EDT
LA PD definitely needs a few more APC's. Heck, I think they should have Apache attack helicopters to stop high speed chases with Hellfire missiles.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:28:57 PM EDT
You guys need to come here to AZ one weekend when the AZ Military Vheicles Collectors Club has one of their shows... after that, you won't worry about police having armored cars anymore..[:)]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:11:33 PM EDT
When SHTF, who has to responds? Let them have it, sure beats looking for armor truck to retrieve the wounded when two psycho's are armored up and shooting automatic rifles. Besides, the H2 or full size Humvee are available to the public aren't they? [50][heavy][rocket][sniper][uzi][heavy][snipe­r][50][rocket]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:44:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: LA PD definitely needs a few more APC's. Heck, I think they should have Apache attack helicopters to stop high speed chases with Hellfire missiles.
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Hmmm, neat idea! Let them run for 10 minutes to rethink what they're doing, then when they hit the next clearing.....BOOM! Never would happen in Kali, but Texas maybe...?
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:00:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 6:05:34 PM EDT by natez]
Let's take the tin foil hats off for a second... Wacko of the week decides to vent his anger on the world by barricading himself in his house. To make sure that everyone knows that he is unhappy with them, he displayes his anger by shooting at stuff in his neighborhood. Stuff like: -Mailboxes. -Stray dogs. -Passing motorists. -Neighbors. -The cops who naturally show up after a while. Now wacko of the week isn't answering his phone (or maybe it has been disconnected). Your job is to deliver a "throw phone" to wacko of the week so that the negotiators can convince him to return to earth for massive injections of Thorazine and Diazepam. Your choices in high-velocity fashion are: A. A 2-3" in diameter metal badge, a couple layers of kevlar, a prayer and a smile. B. A level IIIA balistic shield and cover fire from weapons that probably won't shoot through an exterior wall. C. An ex-military APC that your department got for shipping charges (essentially free if it came from a nearby base). I pick "C." What would your choice be? Seriously, this scenario (or infinite variations thereof) probably happens in a medium-sized city 1-10 times a month (there is an interesting correlation between folks who twist off and hold themselves hostage and rate of Part 1 offenses for a community, but I digress). Your local cops, wanting to go home alive, generally tend to think in terms of risk mitigation. It apparently works pretty well, too, because the vast majority of barricaded persons incidents end peacefully, or at least with no serious injuries (OC exposure is not an "injury") and never even make the news. Also ex-military armored vehicles come sans weapons systems, and tanks and the like are generally not available. As far as the M113 itself goes, it is not desirable from an LE perspective because: 1) Public perception is bad. 2) Maintenance is darn near impossible. 3) They are tough on roads. 4) They can be slow to respond. 5) They usually require a transporter (additional cost). The supply of surplus wheeled APCs, mostly from Dragoon armored cars from MP units, and Peacekeeper armored trucks from missile base security, is basically exhausted. Most LE agencies that get armored vehicles will be going for commercial purchase of APCs that don't look like your military variants, generally starting at $250,000 (I do budgets, too). There is a definite need for these for some situations, and they generally only get called out if someone is already shooting.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:13:26 PM EDT
Natez, I have seen pictures of mil surp LE m113s. Some police departments do have them. CRC
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:15:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: I feel safer. All those bad people won't hurt me, because the police in their APCs are there to protect me.
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Tell it to the kids at columbine...
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 2:54:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC: Natez, I have seen pictures of mil surp LE m113s. Some police departments do have them. CRC
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I know some do. Heck, Charleston, SC has a picture of theirs on their website. But the M113 is less desirable to an LE agency than an armored car. They generally only get M113s if they can not get a free armored car and can't buy their own. I had this discussion last week with a group of police administrators, and we decided against the M113. We are exploring other low-cost alternatives. BTW, while it would be tough to find them, there is nothing that I am aware of preventing any citizen from buying one of these vehicles. I have seen wheeled APCs on the roads several times in my area; apparently there is a collectors group around here that has meetings.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 3:27:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2002 4:03:57 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Originally Posted By CRC: What is your opinions on LE owning and or using armored personnel carriers, tanks, Humvees, ect? I ,for one, think it is uncessary. It also makes the police look like an occuping force-"were here to kill not help!" CRC
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Were you working for the DoD at some point?? Those Rangers shouldn't need armor, or fixed wing air support in Somalia, what's the worst that could happen????[:o] In the N. Hollywood shoot out injured people had to be removed form the area around the bank during the shoot out. LAPD officers commandeered an armored car..............hey wait if armored cars are viewed as acceptable to transport and protect MONEY. Why shouldn't LEA's have the option of purchasing them too?? Then again, I wouldn't want to plan having an Brink's truck nearby, as happen-stance, when the SHTF. Because more likely than not there won't be one avialable. Then again what if the Brink's guys says they ain't going to cooperate with the police and drive off? It's all fun and games, burying your head in the sand, until somebody gets shot, and you need a way to get them out of the line of fire......... How do you get them out of there?? How?? I guess with your plan since there is no vehicle the police could use to get an injured person out of the line of fire the police either have to immediately rush the gunman or let the injured person bleed to death. Pretty much either option assures at least 1 dead person. Nice planning.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 4:01:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2002 4:17:48 AM EDT by Badseed]
[b]I just can't believe we made it this long without LE having these things...[/b] And the population is [i]still[/i] going up!!! /sarcasm (to idiots)
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 4:31:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo:
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: I feel safer. All those bad people won't hurt me, because the police in their APCs are there to protect me.
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Tell it to the kids at columbine...
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I agree, they weren't police, they were cowards posing as the police...
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