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Posted: 4/5/2001 9:11:38 PM EDT
My oldest son turns 6 in July. He has been to the range with me two times while I competed in IDPA matches. I dont want to push him too early, but he seems to have a budding interest in coming with me and maybe shooting a little himself. I would really love to be able to give him a special gift of a rifle for his B-Day coming up. Am I rushing it? Should I look at a BB gun? Or possibly go for a 22? I think if I go the 22 route, it should be a bolt action, magazine fed, or possibly a single shot. I dont think he will enjoy the single shot idea as long into the future as he may with a mag. I probably wouldnt either at a young age. Any advice out there. By the way, I dont want to hear that an AR is a good way to start. It is probably inevitable to get that reply though. HA HA It would be cool however to show friends and their wives a pic of my son with an AR in his hands and say that he handles it very well. That should stir up a few dirty looks with the inlaws anyway. thanks Brian
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:17:45 PM EDT
I'd agree with the 22. I'd disagree with the bolt action part, though. I realize it would be safer and more accurate for him, but with good safety training a semi-auto would be my choice. Pick him up a Ruger 10/22. You can expect better that average accuracy out of the box. The nice thing about these rifles is that there very customizable. There are lots of aftermarket accessories to accurize and jazz them up. My .08--(.02 adjusted for inflation)
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:27:33 PM EDT
I agre with the though of a bolt action .22. Although my first rifle was a 10/22 I did not get it till I was 18. I had the oppurtunity to shoot other rifles until then. i am a rifle instructor for boys ages 11-18 and I use the Marlin bolt action, I guess, close to the model 15YN. The kids will learn more about shooting with the bolt action. kids seem to just want to pop off rounds with the auto. With the bolt they need to focus and make every shot count. just my experiances.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:30:01 PM EDT
You know, that was my thinking as well, until the other day. The thought of making every shot count (at least a little more) with a bolt as opposed to squeeze, bang, appeals to me a bit more. Heck, I sure do take a bit more time with shot placement with my 686 6 shot, than my 14 shot para ordnance .45 (I shouldnt, but I do nonetheless) Thanks, and you know, I still may end up with the 10-22.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:33:12 PM EDT
I started typing before I read Snorkle Bob's post. I think that is what I am trying to say. I just need to type a bit quicker, and make less trips to the bathroom..ha ha Is .08 really enough for inflation? sounds like another thread for possibly another site. dont get me started. It is tax season you know, and I like to rant if given the opportunity. Brian
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:33:20 PM EDT
Start him off with a Chipmunk, single shot .22, it will shoot .22 shorts, longs, and long rifle ammo. Then after he's mastered that, go with the .22 Browning Automatic (loads in the stock). Try and find one of the ones made in Belgium, I've got 2 that have lasted forever and been fired no telling how many times.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:35:30 PM EDT
How about a Ciener .22 conversion in an AR? It'll take him a long time to grow out of it. =) How's that for a way to spend $1000 when you could get something good for $100?
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:44:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2001 9:46:43 PM EDT by jeepboy]
Originally Posted By qwijibo: How about a Ciener .22 conversion in an AR? It'll take him a long time to grow out of it. =) How's that for a way to spend $1000 when you could get something good for $100?
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See, I knew it was coming... Conversion kit for HIM? What about me? I guess it would be justifiable in my wife's eyes. Kinda like getting a woman a new router for her for Christmas. "If you think it is too much for him to handle, I guess I could use it until he is ready" I was just on the Marlin site, and saw the model 81TS. It may be too large though. The youth model is more suited in size in weight, but the 81TS will shoot shorts, longs, and long rifle. (6 lbs. and 41 inches overall,, versus 4.25 lbs, and 33.25 inches for the youth model)Sounds like I may be buying this with ME in mind and not my son. HMMMM. Keep the advice coming,,it is much appreciated. I have much respect for the majority of the opinions posted on this site.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:45:38 PM EDT
Can't go wrong w/ the Ruger 10/22. There so many accessories available so the gun will grow w/ him if he gets bored w/ the original configuration. That is what I bought my son on his 5th B-day and he now 15. He is shooting my handguns, shotguns and rifles now. The 10/22 is now being used by his younger sister.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:54:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 9:57:39 PM EDT
go for the best buy him a steyr
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 10:03:41 PM EDT
I just looked at the new (don't puke) Rossi combination .22/.410 single shot set for about $150. My kids are about that age, and I'm going back to check it out again...it's the right size and price to get them to start with the pride of ownership and safety, safety, safety. One shot at a time.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 10:12:28 PM EDT
I was 11 when my dad gave me a Savage Model 72 single shot. It's like an old Stevens Favorite with the underlever and color casehardened steel receiver. I have never outgrown that rifle or gotten bored with it. Oh, sure, I almost bought a buddy's Winchester 290 lever gun once, but after seeing how cheapo the thing was made, with pot metal receiver and birch stock, even my 14-year old brain rejected that idea. Of course, the latest incarnation of that single shot from Savage is now made very cheapo too, but there are other quality guns out there. I think having a quality single-shot rifle back then played a big part not only in making me a more careful shot, but in giving me a more discerning eye for good firearms generally. (Yeah, that explains why I've got a locker full of rusty Mosin-Nagants and Turkish Mausers!) I cringe at giving kids, in this video-game and action-movie age, a semi-auto for a first gun. I suppose constant parental supervision would help a lot, but I think your best bet is a bolt-action single shot with iron sights. Start with the basics, if the purpose is to teach a skill rather than to impress schoolmates. I never have had a whole lot of use for scopes, but with a bolt-action you could eventually add one very easily after iron sights are mastered.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 10:17:07 PM EDT
I'd be tempted to spend the $25.00 and get Jr. a Red Ryder and let him use that to gets all the gun handling stuff down pat. Plus it will be an important nostalgic memory for him later in life. Gotta think of this stuff. Then when he has his shit wired tight, get the .22. I would recommend bolt action, magazine fed. Maybe a good Stevens rifle. This way he understands the mechanics of a firearm on a basic level and it won't be so mysterious. Also, semi auto can cause apprehension in young shooters. Just knowing the next round is already in the chamber can make them feel overwhelmed. With a bolt action, they reload the weapon when they are ready. This is important. They will feel in control of the weapon and will be able to translate this to the concept of fire when ready. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 10:33:28 PM EDT
When my Grampa passed away and the things of his Life were being given to the family, there was only ONE thing I wanted---his old battered BB Gun that had been leaning in the corner by the back door since I was a kid. Well, I got it. I took it home and my girls were curious about what it was. I showed 'em and proceded to take aim at the clothesline pole about 30' away. I noticed the front site was cocked way over to one side. I started to think it got that way from leaning so hard into the wall for so many years, and thought I might straighten it out. I thought twice about it. Leaving it the way Papa had it, I took aim again and slowly squeezed the trigger---PING! It was Dead Nuts on. I miss my Grampa.
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 10:33:52 PM EDT
SteyrAug,,,thanks, that is about how I feel. I really dont want to rush him into a .22. I remember using my Dads Red Ryder (he got as a kid), when I was about 13 and then a little BB pistol my dad got for me about the same time. My parents were not real cool with guns, and even the thought of a BB gun in my moms head was enough make her nuts. To this day, when my parents come over, I have to show my Dad the newest addition to the collection in the spare room, out of site of my Mother. She is STILL uneasy about the whole idea of firearms. She would go COMPLETELY nuts if she knew I was thinking of getting her grandson (my son) one. Hmm, her birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks, maybe I should get her one, or at least TELL her that is what I am doing. I dont know if her heart could take that one. I am not familiar with the Stevens line of .22's. I will have to check into that a bit more tomorrow. thanks
Link Posted: 4/5/2001 10:36:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BusMaster007: When my Grampa passed away and the things of his Life were being given to the family, there was only ONE thing I wanted---his old battered BB Gun that had been leaning in the corner by the back door since I was a kid. Well, I got it. I took it home and my girls were curious about what it was. I showed 'em and proceded to take aim at the clothesline pole about 30' away. I noticed the front site was cocked way over to one side. I started to think it got that way from leaning so hard into the wall for so many years, and thought I might straighten it out. I thought twice about it. Leaving it the way Papa had it, I took aim again and slowly squeezed the trigger---PING! It was Dead Nuts on. I miss my Grampa.
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THANKS,,, I believe I have made a decision. Too bad more kids nowdays (wow, I sound old saying that, and am only 32) dont have any memories like that. Hope my kids remember me in the same light. Brian
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:52:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2001 10:54:23 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By jeepboy: SteyrAug,,,thanks, that is about how I feel. I really dont want to rush him into a .22. I remember using my Dads Red Ryder (he got as a kid), when I was about 13 and then a little BB pistol my dad got for me about the same time. My parents were not real cool with guns, and even the thought of a BB gun in my moms head was enough make her nuts. To this day, when my parents come over, I have to show my Dad the newest addition to the collection in the spare room, out of site of my Mother. She is STILL uneasy about the whole idea of firearms. She would go COMPLETELY nuts if she knew I was thinking of getting her grandson (my son) one. Hmm, her birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks, maybe I should get her one, or at least TELL her that is what I am doing. I dont know if her heart could take that one. I am not familiar with the Stevens line of .22's. I will have to check into that a bit more tomorrow. thanks
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Glad to help. The BB gun is an important step in the progression. It is the only thing where you can eventually loosen the supervision somewhat. This will give him a sense of independence as well. Just don't turn him loose on the neighborhood while you watch tv. Also, if your property is large enough he won't require a range. How can anyone skip the BB experience. Running around with BBs making that noise in your pocket. Setting up pop cans in the yard. And just sleeping well knowing it is leaning in the corner next to your bed. On another topic, now that you have a son. You might want to cut the apron strings. How's it gonna look to your son if your still answering to Mommy? Remember, you are HIS model for manhood. When Mom is in YOUR home you may wish to ask her to remember that. In addition, it is NOT her grandson, so much as it is YOUR son. Act accordingly. Hope your kid loves it.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:54:59 AM EDT
changed my mine get what steyraug said
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:56:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By STEYRPRODIGY: changed my mine get what steyraug said
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Advanced military rifles are best reserved for the experienced 13 year old. That is my family tradition.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:58:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By STEYRPRODIGY: changed my mine get what steyraug said
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Advanced military rifles are best reserved for the experienced 13 year old. That is my family tradition.
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you would no better then me great one
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:58:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:05:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By STEYRPRODIGY: you would no better then me great one
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Who are you and what is your tongue doing in my ass?
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:08:42 AM EDT
all people need an idol an so far all the things you say sound good
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:10:40 AM EDT
Get a Davy Crickett/Chipmunk/ whatever. The accuracy is so much better, and CB caps = pellet gun. My son got his as a result of the lack of affordable and ACCURATE pellet rifles. Earned his first marksmanship award before his 5th birthday. Get the kid a real gun, BB guns are toys...........
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:10:57 AM EDT
Come on guys, don't you want his son to grow up to be real man??? 10 gauge time! Actually at six, I'd say a rifled high veloticy BB gun. Wait a couple years for a 22. Nothing semi-auto till older. Bolt-action almost forces a child to know if there is a live round chambered or not since he can see it as he works the action. My concern would be accidental discharges more than purposefully dangerous shooting. [shotgun]
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:21:14 AM EDT
I disagree. Red Ryder is important for social/nostalgic reasons. Who doen't want to be able to identify with Ralphie. And SteyrProdigy, don't idolize other men. Determine what you respect and you be that man.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:23:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: And SteyrProdigy, don't idolize other men. Determine what you respect and you be that man.
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yep yep so true i guess you da man
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:24:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By STEYRPRODIGY: yep yep so true i guess you da man
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Oh brother....can one of you guys get this kid off my leg?
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:27:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By STEYRPRODIGY: yep yep so true i guess you da man
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Oh brother....can one of you guys get this kid off my leg?
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please dont reject me everyone needs teaching how am i going to learn
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:31:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By STEYRPRODIGY: please dont reject me everyone needs teaching how am i going to learn
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Understood. But learn from a REAL master. Somewhere on these boards is the elusive grandmember "Swatleader10." His kung fu is like no other. Seek him out young one. Perhaps he will accept you. I am far too busy cleaning my home for a pupil.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:36:18 AM EDT
Ya needs to git yer boy one of dem Barrett 50 calibers. None o'this pansy 22 rimfar' crap. [:D] Seriously, I would make my decision based on how well he handles one of your guns. If hes waving the muzzle around like one of them scantily clad baton twirlers in the 4th of July parade, get him a BB gun, and show him proper firearms handling. when appropriate, step up to the plate with your 22 caliber. If he already shows some sense of understanding of the importance of firearms safety, i would probably go with the Ruger 10/22, and proper supervision while shooting. The 10/22 will reward him for his own accuracy, and it will last him a lifetime, where he can tell HIS grandkids that "This is the FIRST gun MY dad gave me."
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:39:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By STEYRPRODIGY: please dont reject me everyone needs teaching how am i going to learn
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Understood. But learn from a REAL master. Somewhere on these boards is the elusive grandmember "Swatleader10." His kung fu is like no other. Seek him out young one. Perhaps he will accept you. I am far too busy cleaning my home for a pupil.
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i shall follow behide like a lost puppy you will teach indirecty or not
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 12:29:15 PM EDT
I agree with the Marlin bolt action. However, my first thought was with the Marlin Golden lever action 22. It takes down in a matter of seconds if you care to do so. The lever action goes back to the early days and may interest him in the history of the gun. There is a lot more to just squeezing the trigger as others have stated. I would not recommend a pee wee size shooter only because he will definitely outgrow it. If you want him to remember his first, buy him somehing that he will treasure, want to keep and not be embarrassed to shoot with his buddies when he is an 18 year old 6-2 hunk of rippling muscles. You will scare him for life otherwise.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:18:05 PM EDT
I should have said before that 6 is maybe just a little young to have an actual firearm of his own. I was 7 when I got my first BB gun. Since others have brought up the very good suggestion of an airgun I would only add that I feel traditional Daisy type guns firing steel BB's are a bit dangerous. I remember shooting a piece of hard wood once and having the BB rebound and miss my eye by less than an inch. I would recommend most highly that you think about a rifle that fires lead pellets, which do not bounce nearly so much. They have single-pump pneumatics that are comparable in power (and price) to a standard BB gun. Of course there is a small hazard from handling lead, but it only takes one instant to loose an eye to a steel BB. Just don't carry pellets loose (like I did) in your pocket, and wash your hands afterwards. And when it's time to get a .22, look for steel and walnut. (Please don't kick me off AR-15.com!)
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:03:52 PM EDT
WOW, I didnt quite expect all the responses. Well, actually I kind of did, judging from other threads. Everyone has their own opinions, and that is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for all the advice. I didnt get as many suggestions for an AR or FAL as I thought I might have. Too bad, I would liked to seen his expression when he opened his new AR10 flatty with all his other 6 year old friends and their parents around the cake. It would have been a priceless moment to watch the room clear. I can just hear HRS knocking on my door now claiming delinquincy of a minor. Seriously, thanks for everyone who took the time to respond. I believe it has been narrowed down to a Marlin Bolt action, or a Daisy Red Ryder. I am still listening though........
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:55:53 AM EDT
Go with an air rifle. It has probably been said before, but an air rifle with proper guidance and supervision will still season him to be a marksman. Sights, breathing control, trigger control, cleaning and maintenance, and safety guidelines can be taught with an air rifle. [:D] Milldude
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 7:36:49 AM EDT
I started my son out with a $25 Daisy. I taught him to treat it like the real gun that it is, this was when he was 10. With that gun he learned safety, sighting, and proper holding of a firearm. Later when I bought him a Marlin .22 bolt action (used-$75) it was real easy for him to make the transition since all of the same rules applied. My son, now 13, now probly handles firearms better than a lot of other full grown men I see at the range, because safety has always been drilled into his head. He also shoots pistols and my AR15 with ease and comfort. Now I also have a daughter that will soon be turning 8. That Daisy BB gun will be passed down to her and this summer she will learn to shoot. In short, it is the best $25 I have ever spent on my kids. A few words of advise on .22 rifles. [b]1[/b]-buy used, they are much cheaper, but make sure you check that the firing ping is not bent from "dry firing" of the weapon. [b]2-[/b]If you don't have a .22 yourself, then you might want to buy two rifles. When I bought my son's rifle I figured it would be just for him. Since then it has become one of my favorite rifles to shoot. Every time I go to the range the .22 always goes with me. It's a great warm up gun. sgtar15 P.S. As a fellow father, I am proud of you teaching your children to shoot...keep it up!!
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 8:23:05 AM EDT
1. Make sure the rifle has very little recoil to start - that will keep his confidence while behind the rifle - don't scare him too soon... 2. Make sure there is NO SCOPE! Teach him to use iron sights - if he doesn't learn the basics of sight alignment, sight picture (blurry target) which in turn teaches natural body position, trigger control, etc, even the best rifle won't do him any good... Again - NO SCOPES! This may be the most damaging training for young shooters than anything else... I always try to teach people when the first start shooting to master the rifle they have and not to go out and try find a rifle that may be 'better' than the next - if you can't pick up any rifle and master it, then you need to go back to the drawing board and learn THE BASICS... out...
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 8:33:40 AM EDT
Why not one of those Airsoft M4s? Pellet gun, so its safe and low recoil, cheap ammo, adjustable stock, hi caps, and it gets him into black guns and full auto ASAP. Too bad they cost a little more then you were probably thinking about spending. Kharn
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 3:28:14 PM EDT
NO SCOPE??? Well, maybe those jarheads ain't all bad after all!
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 6:09:01 AM EDT
As I am relatively new on this board, I am a bit unclear as to the relationship between SteyrAug and STEYRPRODIGY. I have seen enough to be scared to ask, but oh well, what the hell. someone give me the heads up on it.
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 3:00:58 PM EDT
We have some of the premium Marlin bolt actions at the Jr. NRA meet that my son goes to. I would strongly suggest the .22 bolt action, for a number of reasons. 1. There is a value to the gun, as with all guns. He will need to treat it with respect for it's value. This includes cleaning it, not banging it around and so forth. 2. Swing a BB gun around... now swing a bolt action around. Feel the weight? Yes, there is more mass there, means that the kid will have to work harder to swing it around wildly. 2b. The weight will encourage your son to move into a stable position, versus trying to shoot standing up. 3. How many times have we heard that BBs don't kill anyone, or even hurt, except maybe to put an eye out? We understand as adults how serious they still are, but the .22 will never be mistaken for something that is safe to shoot in someones direction. 4. Bolt action teaches him the basics of all of the guns, including EAR protection, and is applicable all the way on up to bolt action deer rifles (and the beloved AR as well). 5. He will take his time as best he can. Why have him concentrate on pumping up the gun again (or is it CO2?). Every BB gun I have ever seen has something that is unrealistic in it's appearance, and it's operation. With the Marlin, it's as real as it gets. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have my first BB gun around today as well. I'd give it back to my Grandmother who gave it to me in the first place. Might set her socialistic mind straight again... nahh... guess not.
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 4:52:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 7:16:16 PM EDT
My first gun was a Red Ryder BB gun 20 years ago and I still have it and it even shoots
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