[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Reloaders - I need some help (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/6/2012 9:50:41 AM EDT
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I'm trying to make 1250 fps out of a 100 grain frangible projectile.
This is harder than it sounds. The closest is 4.0 grains of Titegroup which produces an average of 1186 fps. These projectiles are about the size of 147's but weight much less. Anyone have any ideas? |
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I'm trying to make 1250 fps out of a 100 grain frangible projectile. This is harder than it sounds. The closest is 4.0 grains of Titegroup which produces an average of 1186 fps. These projectiles are about the size of 147's but weight much less. Anyone have any ideas? Leaving out some vital info there, chief... .22? .223? .45? 9mm? 10mm? 45/70? .32ACP? .380? .276 Pedersen? .30-40 Krag? Edit, can't believe I forgot 7.62x39 and .308 in my snark attack 
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I'm trying to make 1250 fps out of a 100 grain frangible projectile. This is harder than it sounds. The closest is 4.0 grains of Titegroup which produces an average of 1186 fps. These projectiles are about the size of 147's but weight much less. Anyone have any ideas? Leaving out some vital info there, chief... .22? .223? .45? 9mm? 10mm? 45/70? .32ACP? .380? .276 Pedersen? .30-40 Krag? Edit, can't believe I forgot 7.62x39 and .308 in my snark attack 9mm .355 |
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I'm trying to make 1250 fps out of a 100 grain frangible projectile. This is harder than it sounds. The closest is 4.0 grains of Titegroup which produces an average of 1186 fps. These projectiles are about the size of 147's but weight much less. Anyone have any ideas? Leaving out some vital info there, chief... .22? .223? .45? 9mm? 10mm? 45/70? .32ACP? .380? .276 Pedersen? .30-40 Krag? Edit, can't believe I forgot 7.62x39 and .308 in my snark attack 9mm .355  Yeah, figured from the 147gr but it helps to be sure..
I'd suggest changing powders like mentioned before, but pushing a frangible supersonic has it's own problems... |
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I'm trying to make 1250 fps out of a 100 grain frangible projectile. This is harder than it sounds. The closest is 4.0 grains of Titegroup which produces an average of 1186 fps. These projectiles are about the size of 147's but weight much less. Anyone have any ideas? Leaving out some vital info there, chief... .22? .223? .45? 9mm? 10mm? 45/70? .32ACP? .380? .276 Pedersen? .30-40 Krag? Edit, can't believe I forgot 7.62x39 and .308 in my snark attack 9mm .355 Yeah, figured from the 147gr but it helps to be sure..
I'd suggest changing powders like mentioned before, but pushing a frangible supersonic has it's own problems... Titegroup and Win231 has been tried. From some data I've seen, IMR700 may be a way to go. The problem being, is when you start pushing up pressures, this start to get unstable. |
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For what it's worth I don't think 64fps is going to make that much difference. It is if I get called on it, and they test my loads. You promised someone 1250 FPS and didn't check if it was possible using factory reloading data before hand? 
Can't help you with the load, good luck. |
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Here, even a hot link for you.
http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/6/34 |
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For what it's worth I don't think 64fps is going to make that much difference. It is if I get called on it, and they test my loads. You promised someone 1250 FPS and didn't check if it was possible using factory reloading data before hand?
Can't help you with the load, good luck. Look's like he's trying to make the 125 pf for uspsa minor. |
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For what it's worth I don't think 64fps is going to make that much difference. It is if I get called on it, and they test my loads. You promised someone 1250 FPS and didn't check if it was possible using factory reloading data before hand?
Can't help you with the load, good luck. I'm guessing it for competition shooting. ETA: Beat by 16 seconds. |
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For what it's worth I don't think 64fps is going to make that much difference. It is if I get called on it, and they test my loads. You promised someone 1250 FPS and didn't check if it was possible using factory reloading data before hand?
Can't help you with the load, good luck. Look's like he's trying to make the 125 pf for uspsa minor. Ah, that makes sense. |
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The Hodgdon website says that in 9mm Parabellum, 7.5 grains of HS-6 will get you to over 1300 fps with a 100 grain Sierra bullet Now, I don't have a Hornady manual handy at the moment, but my memory is that back in 1990, I loaded 7 grains of Unique with 100 grain bullets. Now don't take my word for it, check my recollection using a manual. But I'm pretty sure that you can safely exceed 1250 fps with a 100 grain bullet in 9mm Parabellum, if you use a medium burning powder. ( HS-6, Unique, Universal, Power Pistol, etc.) Use careful loading techniques and a proper manual. Don't blow yourself up. |
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Quoted: Quoted: If you are loading for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge, you will easily get there if you load with Unique Case volume is an issue here with the longer bullet. I'm not sure if there is room for Unique. Is that a disc powder? You can get it with Clays I'm telling you. I shoot USPSA and local matches. Depending on your OAL you will only need 3.7 to 4.0 grains to get there. |
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth.  Not if you're trying to make minor or major in USPSA. 
ETA: I'm way slow. 
I would also suggest Unique or AA#5. Slower powders get higher velocities with heavier bullets. With lighter-than-standard bullets, fast to medium powders fill the bill. You can also experiment with different primers as some are hotter than others. Just keep an eye on your pressure signs. As for "If it's not in the book, it's a no-go". That's absolutely true for beginners. If you know what to watch and actually watch it, cartridges can be pushed further than the book. Look at the guys hot rodding the supers, using small rifle primers and compressed loads to drive 115 and 125 grain bullets at over 1500 fps. There for a while, (maybe still) 9mm para was allowed to be loaded to major for open class. That's asking a lot out of that envelope. |
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Are you loading the CTF Frangibles midway was selling? Yep. They are huge for being 100 grain'ers Ok. The 90 grain version over 4.8 grains, at 1.14" OAL, does 1334 fps. Same but with 5.2 grains is good for 1405 fps. 100gr Berry's over 4.8 grains is good for 1259 fps, OAL of 1.05". Theses are from my CZ-75B, which has a 4.6" barrel. Here's the issue. Your bullets are taking up a lot more of the case than my 90gr CTFs and 100gr plated bullets. You have less powder space and higher pressures. The 90gr bullets have a shorter bearing surface and more the bullet is outside rather than inside the case in addition to being lighter. Keep working your way up, paying attention as you go. These bullets are uncharted territory in terms of published data. I think you can get there easily with no excess pressure. Load as long as you can without hitting the rifling or causing misfeeds just to be safe. These bullets seem to be "forgiving" IE they engrave and go down the bore with little pressure relative to jacketed bullets. |
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If you are loading for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge, you will easily get there if you load with Unique Case volume is an issue here with the longer bullet. I'm not sure if there is room for Unique. Is that a disc powder? Yep...I call it flake...its pretty bulky ETA: What about Power Pistol??? It's not near as bulky as Unique |
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A 100gr frangible bullet IS NOT equivalent to a 100gr FMJ and you cannot load them the same to please people stop posting 100gr FMJ loads!!
Hodgdon (including Winchester and IMR), Alliant(someone stated the 2004 guide has it), and Ramshot are the only ones that I have found that list frangible data currently. They do not list any load over 1174fps though. There are people in the reloading forum going over book on some powders and watching for pressure signs. Some books are WAY under on their "safe" loads (Hornady comes to mind when compared to other manuals and even Hodgdon's own data). |
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. I'm not loading for a specific velocity. I'm just trying to get above the minimum IDPA power factor floor. Why not use a bullet better suited to your goals? 
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Are you loading the CTF Frangibles midway was selling? Yep. They are huge for being 100 grain'ers Ok. The 90 grain version over 4.8 grains, at 1.14" OAL, does 1334 fps. Same but with 5.2 grains is good for 1405 fps. 100gr Berry's over 4.8 grains is good for 1259 fps, OAL of 1.05". Theses are from my CZ-75B, which has a 4.6" barrel. Here's the issue. Your bullets are taking up a lot more of the case than my 90gr CTFs and 100gr plated bullets. You have less powder space and higher pressures. The 90gr bullets have a shorter bearing surface and more the bullet is outside rather than inside the case in addition to being lighter. Keep working your way up, paying attention as you go. These bullets are uncharted territory in terms of published data. I think you can get there easily with no excess pressure. Load as long as you can without hitting the rifling or causing misfeeds just to be safe. These bullets seem to be "forgiving" IE they engrave and go down the bore with little pressure relative to jacketed bullets. They're coming out of a 5.3" barrel, so I have that working for me. |
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. I'm not loading for a specific velocity. I'm just trying to get above the minimum IDPA power factor floor. Why not use a bullet better suited to your goals? Because I haven't found other loads that can be produced at $3/50 |
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The Hodgdon website says that in 9mm Parabellum, 7.5 grains of HS-6 will get you to over 1300 fps with a 100 grain Sierra bullet Now, I don't have a Hornady manual handy at the moment, but my memory is that back in 1990, I loaded 7 grains of Unique with 100 grain bullets. Now don't take my word for it, check my recollection using a manual. But I'm pretty sure that you can safely exceed 1250 fps with a 100 grain bullet in 9mm Parabellum, if you use a medium burning powder. ( HS-6, Unique, Universal, Power Pistol, etc.) Use careful loading techniques and a proper manual. Don't blow yourself up. He said it's a frangible bullet with the rough length/size of a 147 gr. bullet. That's a lot of bearing surface, and the max size for the caliber, so caution is strongly in order. He's pushing all limits and parameters.
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. I'm not loading for a specific velocity. I'm just trying to get above the minimum IDPA power factor floor. Why not use a bullet better suited to your goals? Because I haven't found other loads that can be produced at $3/50 I bought 3000. Should have bought 10000.
I'm really happy with how they shoot. |
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The Hodgdon website says that in 9mm Parabellum, 7.5 grains of HS-6 will get you to over 1300 fps with a 100 grain Sierra bullet Now, I don't have a Hornady manual handy at the moment, but my memory is that back in 1990, I loaded 7 grains of Unique with 100 grain bullets. Now don't take my word for it, check my recollection using a manual. But I'm pretty sure that you can safely exceed 1250 fps with a 100 grain bullet in 9mm Parabellum, if you use a medium burning powder. ( HS-6, Unique, Universal, Power Pistol, etc.) Use careful loading techniques and a proper manual. Don't blow yourself up. He said it's a frangible bullet with the rough length/size of a 147 gr. bullet. That's a lot of bearing surface, and the max size for the caliber, so caution is strongly in order. He's pushing all limits and parameters. 147 is not the "max size" for 9mm. 158gr FMJs are out there. |
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. I'm not loading for a specific velocity. I'm just trying to get above the minimum IDPA power factor floor. Why not use a bullet better suited to your goals? This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm loading 124gr. JHPs from Montana Gold for my son for USPSA minor and with 3.7 grains of Titegroup, he makes about a 128 PF. MG's are inexpensive good bullets. We've shot thousands of them. Why screw around with long, light frangibles? |
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. I'm not loading for a specific velocity. I'm just trying to get above the minimum IDPA power factor floor. Why not use a bullet better suited to your goals? Because I haven't found other loads that can be produced at $3/50 The Montana Golds I shoot come in at $4.33/50. It's a little more expensive, but you have so many more options open to you for an extra dollar and change. |
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The Hodgdon website says that in 9mm Parabellum, 7.5 grains of HS-6 will get you to over 1300 fps with a 100 grain Sierra bullet Now, I don't have a Hornady manual handy at the moment, but my memory is that back in 1990, I loaded 7 grains of Unique with 100 grain bullets. Now don't take my word for it, check my recollection using a manual. But I'm pretty sure that you can safely exceed 1250 fps with a 100 grain bullet in 9mm Parabellum, if you use a medium burning powder. ( HS-6, Unique, Universal, Power Pistol, etc.) Use careful loading techniques and a proper manual. Don't blow yourself up. He said it's a frangible bullet with the rough length/size of a 147 gr. bullet. That's a lot of bearing surface, and the max size for the caliber, so caution is strongly in order. He's pushing all limits and parameters. 147 is not the "max size" for 9mm. 158gr FMJs are out there. The Brits loaded a 170gr bullet for suppressed usage during WWII. |
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The Hodgdon website says that in 9mm Parabellum, 7.5 grains of HS-6 will get you to over 1300 fps with a 100 grain Sierra bullet Now, I don't have a Hornady manual handy at the moment, but my memory is that back in 1990, I loaded 7 grains of Unique with 100 grain bullets. Now don't take my word for it, check my recollection using a manual. But I'm pretty sure that you can safely exceed 1250 fps with a 100 grain bullet in 9mm Parabellum, if you use a medium burning powder. ( HS-6, Unique, Universal, Power Pistol, etc.) Use careful loading techniques and a proper manual. Don't blow yourself up. He said it's a frangible bullet with the rough length/size of a 147 gr. bullet. That's a lot of bearing surface, and the max size for the caliber, so caution is strongly in order. He's pushing all limits and parameters. 147 is not the "max size" for 9mm. 158gr FMJs are out there. The Brits loaded a 170gr bullet for suppressed usage during WWII. The SD and penetration on that load must have been nice. |
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. I'm not loading for a specific velocity. I'm just trying to get above the minimum IDPA power factor floor. Why not use a bullet better suited to your goals? Because I haven't found other loads that can be produced at $3/50 The Montana Golds I shoot come in at $4.33/50. It's a little more expensive, but you have so many more options open to you for an extra dollar and change. The 115gr FMJ-RN Montana Golds are $300 per 4000, or $.075 per bullet. Add five cents for primer and powder and that's 12.5 cents per round or $6.25 per 50 rounds. $125 per K. These were $19.95 per 500, or $.039 per bullet. Add five cents for primer and powder and that's 8.9 cents per round or $4.45 per 50 rounds. $89 per K. |
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. I'm not loading for a specific velocity. I'm just trying to get above the minimum IDPA power factor floor. Why not use a bullet better suited to your goals? Because I haven't found other loads that can be produced at $3/50 The Montana Golds I shoot come in at $4.33/50. It's a little more expensive, but you have so many more options open to you for an extra dollar and change. The 115gr FMJ-RN Montana Golds are $300 per 4000, or $.075 per bullet. These were $19.95 per 500, or $.039 per bullet. That's definitely a lot cheaper, but with a minimum PF as a goal and having to load so hot to get there (and assume all the risks associated with these loads), it may not be worth the savings in the long run. As a downloaded range or plinking ammo, I'm right there with ya. |
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Quoted: Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. Unless you are talking about double rifles. Trying to duplicate the ammo with which they are regulated is all about reloading for velocity since your bullet choices are limited and powder moreso. |
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I'm trying to make 1250 fps out of a 100 grain frangible projectile. This is harder than it sounds. The closest is 4.0 grains of Titegroup which produces an average of 1186 fps. These projectiles are about the size of 147's but weight much less. Anyone have any ideas? Leaving out some vital info there, chief... .22? .223? .45? 9mm? 10mm? 45/70? .32ACP? .380? .276 Pedersen? .30-40 Krag? Edit, can't believe I forgot 7.62x39 and .308 in my snark attack No he isn't.. it is obviously a 9MM |
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Sorry, but loading for a specific velocity is the trait of a poor reloader. That's the truth. Unless you are talking about double rifles. Trying to duplicate the ammo with which they are regulated is all about reloading for velocity since your bullet choices are limited and powder moreso.
I posted that long before he said that was his need/intention. Beginners who want to "hotrod" loads are an unending problem in the reloading world.
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