[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First conflict while carrying (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 7/15/2012 11:20:32 PM EDT
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Some scenario set-up first. I'm 22, and I cook at a restaurant. At the end of the night, I like to sit down and chit chat with the girl or two that are finishing up their tasks, usually while enjoying an adult beverage. The sous chef placed the food order downstairs, and came back up to say his good byes. The majority of the kitchen staff shares the same 2nd amendment support that I do, and knows that I carry religiously while at work. (The law makes an exception for employees of an establishment that has a bar where no minors are allowed, which allows us to carry.) About a minute after he left, I hear "Justin, get the fuck out here!" At first I thought (and hoped) there were some cute girls streaking in the parking lot or something. I'm young, what do you expect? Anyway, I get out to the deck where he is, and he tells me he just watched the guy in our parking lot punch the girl he was with in the face. I ask him to tell me again, to make sure I heard correctly that this man just assaulted the girl with him. She was still in the vehicle (which has stopped in the street next to our parking lot) with her head in her hands crying. He had gotten out of his vehicle and was in our parking lot, yelling to get the girl out of his vehicle. My first thought was, "Is domestic assault a misdemeanor or felony?" I told to sous chef to call police. I walked down the stairs and had to walk directly passed the guy, within a few feet, to get to the back of his car and call out his license plate. As I was calling out his plates, he started walking towards me and the car, and I told him to stay the f*ck and away from me. He paused for a second, and started moving in a wide loop away from me but towards the car, presumably to get back in. I tell the girl, who was still in the car that if she gets out of the car, I will make sure he cannot get to her until the police get here. She is panicked, but I think she shook her head no, and by that time he had made it to his drivers seat while making it clear that he wasn't hostile towards me. I think one more time "Should I get involved with what could potentially end in a life ending situation?" I decide that I had not witnessed a felony and I was not in fear for my life. He got in his car, and I called out again his license plate and his description to my boss, who was still on the phone with police. I follow the vehicle as long as I can keep up (about 4 blocks) so I can relay which direction he went. That was the end. I almost wish I would have put myself between him and the car and blocked him from getting back in until police arrived. But since I had already had an adult beverage, I am thankful it went the way it did. I imagine that would be difficult from a defensive standpoint if the situation escalated to a self defense scenario. I imagine that with the guys approximate age and description, and license plate number that police could find his address and confirm it was him and prosecute him. Anyway, should I have reacted differently? What would have been the ideal reaction? |
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That type of thing is generally a misdemeanor.
Drawing the weapon would have been a very poor choice. You sound like you did pretty good. I would have done similar to you, watch and observe. It fact I was in a situation similar to that a few months ago at a gas station watching a fight in progress. Just watched to make sure someone didn't pull a knife and go after someone down or something. Reported the details to the cops, and stayed out of it. |
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Quoted: I'm assuming the "beverage" you had was alcohol? And you was still carrying? Yes. If a drink, or even a few, is enough to make me feel like I cannot be safe while carrying, I shouldn't be carrying anyway. I quite often enjoy drinks while I am at home, when I have my CCW and AR sitting within a few feet of me. |
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Quoted: Besides, by the time they got home she was ok with it as he "loves" her. That type of thing is generally a misdemeanor. Drawing the weapon would have been a very poor choice. You sound like you did pretty good. I would have done similar to you, watch and observe. It fact I was in a situation similar to that a few months ago at a gas station watching a fight in progress. Just watched to make sure someone didn't pull a knife and go after someone down or something. Reported the details to the cops, and stayed out of it.  It happens over and over.
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Is it some kind of law in your state that you can't interfere with a criminal unless they're committing a felony? I've never thought of it in that terms. To me, it's always been, "Is someone in danger?" –– "Do they want help?" –– "Am I capable of helping them?" –– "What would be the possible legal and civil results of my actions?" Anyway, it sounds like you did great. I'd say jumping in front of an enraged man's vehicle with his girlfriend with him would always be a terrible idea. Very interesting way of looking at the situation with the felony vs. misdemeanor thoughts. Noted. |
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I'm assuming the "beverage" you had was alcohol? And you was still carrying? Yes. If a drink, or even a few, is enough to make me feel like I cannot be safe while carrying, I shouldn't be carrying anyway. I quite often enjoy drinks while I am at home, when I have my CCW and AR sitting within a few feet of me. So if you did have to use your weapon, you woud have alcohol in your system. You guys have a cool law over there where you can drink & carry? Cause here that's jail time & your chl pulled. |
| I wouldn't have gone down the stairs and inserted myself into the situation. Had he attacked you, it would've become a shittier situation. Esp. being you'd been drinking. That's not to say I'm one of those "if you have even a beer you should put the gun away" people––far from it. But you should be even more careful to avoid situations that necessitate its use. It should only come out because of an unavoidable threat to your safety, or that of someone you care about. |
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Quoted: Is it some kind of law in your state that you can't interfere with a criminal unless they're committing a felony? I've never thought of it in that terms. To me, it's always been, "Is someone in danger?" –– "Do they want help?" –– "Am I capable of helping them?" –– "What would be the possible legal and civil results of my actions?" Anyway, it sounds like you did great. I'd say jumping in front of an enraged man's vehicle with his girlfriend with him would always be a terrible idea. Very interesting way of looking at the situation with the felony vs. misdemeanor thoughts. Noted. As for your question, I don't believe there was a law preventing me from interfering. I would be inclined to believe that had the situation gotten physical between the two of us, I would be protected by the good samaritan law.
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I wouldn't have gone down the stairs and inserted myself into the situation. Had he attacked you, it would've become a shittier situation. Esp. being you'd been drinking. That's not to say I'm one of those "if you have even a beer you should put the gun away" people––far from it. But you should be even more careful to avoid situations that necessitate its use. It should only come out because of an unavoidable threat to your safety, or that of someone you care about. this +1 |
| Realize that if you do shoot someone after drinking if you are not in legal trouble, you will be in some serious civil trouble. I would avoid drinking and carrying at all costs. Drinking in your house and having guns around is completely different than drinking and carrying. When you are in your house there are more laws to protect you than you have in most states while carrying. As far as the situation you did a good job, no reason to step into anything like that unless she is being kidnapped, even an assault in progress would be very questionable, best bet is to call the police and let them handle it. Particularly the case of Domestic Violence, the victim can turn on you just as fast as the abuser can. |
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Abosolutely Fail!
NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. |
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Abosolutely Fail! NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. What does this mean? |
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Quoted:
Abosolutely Fail! NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. Not every state is the same  . In Texas you can't be intoxicated while carrying. If you can't be trusted with a gun after one drink, you shouldn't have a gun to begin with.
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Abosolutely Fail! NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. What does this mean? He's been drinking? 
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I'm assuming the "beverage" you had was alcohol? And you was still carrying? Yes. If a drink, or even a few, is enough to make me feel like I cannot be safe while carrying, I shouldn't be carrying anyway. I quite often enjoy drinks while I am at home, when I have my CCW and AR sitting within a few feet of me. At home is one thing; in public, alcohol and guns do NOT mix. In NM there is a zero BAC tolerance when you are in possession of a gun; I don't know what it is in your state. You should know. Find out. In general, OP, my own belief is that if you put yourself into a hazardous position, you have no right to self-defense. As squirrely as the law is, even if the female had suffered major injuries, you could be in serious jeopardy if you'd needed to shoot the other guy. Approaching the car to get the license plate number is NOT sufficient reason to jeopardize your own safety. I could see you seriously hang for your participation if a shooting had occurred. |
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I'm assuming the "beverage" you had was alcohol? And you was still carrying? Yes. If a drink, or even a few, is enough to make me feel like I cannot be safe while carrying, I shouldn't be carrying anyway. I quite often enjoy drinks while I am at home, when I have my CCW and AR sitting within a few feet of me. Sounds like you did good, don't listen to the nay sayers. But I don't see a correlation between carrying a gun, and carrying a gun while drinking. Don't tell me people shouldn't be able to carry a gun unless they can shoot straight after drinking or some bullshit. That is a crazy statement man. Bad juju to be getting involved in shit, after drinking, while carrying a gun, in public. But honestly I am glad everything worked out, and I think even with that trifecta of possible disaster, you did good. |
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Quoted:
Abosolutely Fail! NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. What does this mean? I think he meant something along the lines of not drinking if you are even thinking about carrying a weapon. |
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Abosolutely Fail! NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. What does this mean? He's been drinking? I think you could be right. Or some kind a adrenalin withdrawal thing. |
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Abosolutely Fail! NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. What does this mean? See user name....... |
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Abosolutely Fail! NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. What does this mean? He's been drinking? I think you could be right. Or some kind a adrenalin withdrawal thing. Let's make a drinking game out of this: take a shot every time the word CARRY is used... This thread needs some MS Paint!!! |
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Abosolutely Fail! NEVER EVER CARRY EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT CARRYING A WEAPON!!! Thats just about a guarranteed trip to the jail, charge of illegal use of a firearm. If you had used the weapon the antagonist in this stories would have a lawyer that would just destroy you in civil court, and the Proscecutor would have an as trial. What does this mean? He's been drinking? I think you could be right. Or some kind a adrenalin withdrawal thing. Let's make a drinking game out of this: take a shot every time the word CARRY is used... This thread needs some MS Paint!!! I only do shots when I carry my 1911 
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When it comes to domestic stuff.... STAY OUT OF IT. Call the police, be a good witness, but stay out of it. That ain't the first time he has hit her, and it won't be the last! STAY OUT OF IT! CALL 911! Drinking and carrying, interjecting in a situation you didn't witness nor had any vested interest in..........while drinking and carrying? That's a quick ticket to the big house. |
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Leave the domestic's to those involved. Even after being popped in the face, the woman will always side with her man either out of fear or "love". If he's popping her in the jaw in parking lots, it aint the first time, and it won't be the last.
Now if she were running away and he was actively pursuing her, then step up, but if she's just sitting and taking it, oh well, I'm not risking my life, my right to carry, and my freedom to help someone who won't even try to help themself. |
Exaggerate much? 9 times would be sufficient (I carry a 1911, I'd have to reload to do 10 |
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I'm assuming the "beverage" you had was alcohol? And you was still carrying? Yes. If a drink, or even a few, is enough to make me feel like I cannot be safe while carrying, I shouldn't be carrying anyway. I quite often enjoy drinks while I am at home, when I have my CCW and AR sitting within a few feet of me. This bears repeating in a quote. |
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When it comes to domestic stuff.... STAY OUT OF IT. Call the police, be a good witness, but stay out of it. That ain't the first time he has hit her, and it won't be the last! STAY OUT OF IT! CALL 911! Drinking and carrying, interjecting in a situation you didn't witness nor had any vested interest in..........while drinking and carrying? That's a quick ticket to the big house. +1 This is really quite stupid, IMO. 
If you are the kind of person that wants to carry and be ready to insert yourself into potentially violent situations that didn't involve you in the first place - then don't DRINK while you are carrying. |
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Some scenario set-up first. I'm 22, and I cook at a restaurant. At the end of the night, I like to sit down and chit chat with the girl or two that are finishing up their tasks, usually while enjoying an adult beverage. The sous chef placed the food order downstairs, and came back up to say his good byes. The majority of the kitchen staff shares the same 2nd amendment support that I do, and knows that I carry religiously while at work. (The law makes an exception for employees of an establishment that has a bar where no minors are allowed, which allows us to carry.) About a minute after he left, I hear "Justin, get the fuck out here!" At first I thought (and hoped) there were some cute girls streaking in the parking lot or something. I'm young, what do you expect? Anyway, I get out to the deck where he is, and he tells me he just watched the guy in our parking lot punch the girl he was with in the face. I ask him to tell me again, to make sure I heard correctly that this man just assaulted the girl with him. She was still in the vehicle (which has stopped in the street next to our parking lot) with her head in her hands crying. He had gotten out of his vehicle and was in our parking lot, yelling to get the girl out of his vehicle. My first thought was, "Is domestic assault a misdemeanor or felony?" I told to sous chef to call police. I walked down the stairs and had to walk directly passed the guy, within a few feet, to get to the back of his car and call out his license plate. As I was calling out his plates, he started walking towards me and the car, and I told him to stay the f*ck and away from me. He paused for a second, and started moving in a wide loop away from me but towards the car, presumably to get back in. I tell the girl, who was still in the car that if she gets out of the car, I will make sure he cannot get to her until the police get here. She is panicked, but I think she shook her head no, and by that time he had made it to his drivers seat while making it clear that he wasn't hostile towards me. I think one more time "Should I get involved with what could potentially end in a life ending situation?" I decide that I had not witnessed a felony and I was not in fear for my life. He got in his car, and I called out again his license plate and his description to my boss, who was still on the phone with police. I follow the vehicle as long as I can keep up (about 4 blocks) so I can relay which direction he went. That was the end. I almost wish I would have put myself between him and the car and blocked him from getting back in until police arrived. But since I had already had an adult beverage, I am thankful it went the way it did. I imagine that would be difficult from a defensive standpoint if the situation escalated to a self defense scenario. I imagine that with the guys approximate age and description, and license plate number that police could find his address and confirm it was him and prosecute him. Anyway, should I have reacted differently? What would have been the ideal reaction? Different reactions: 1) DO NOT approach the vehicle. {Unless you are a LEO at the establishment where you work.} 2) How does your state view consuming "adult beverages" while carrying? 3) DO NOT INTERVENE, UNLESS PAID TO DO SO. |