[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Identifying Mauser make/model? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/23/2012 7:27:27 PM EDT
| My grandfather gave me what appears to be a WWII bring back Mauser he bought back in the 60s. The stock is cut off like it was stuffed in a sea-bag, but the bore and action are in great condition and I'd like to get it back into shooting condition. So while the camera battery is charging, what markings would I need to get pics of for any Mauser gurus out there to identify the rifle? |
| The top of the receiver just forward of the ejection port is stamped with a crown, ER_ _ RT (erfurt?), and 1917. What do you mean side rail? The left side of the receiver is stamped "kax 98". There's a few other markings forward of that but I can't make them out due to surface rust. |
|
Quoted:
And please put a little oil on that poor rifle. This please. I recommend taking it down all the way and letting it sit in a bit of CLP/ or other oil. No need to scrub the rifle clean of rust, just soak the rust off and rub it down. Edit...had my 1916 Spandau Gew 98 out yesterday. Fun 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
And please put a little oil on that poor rifle. This please. I recommend taking it down all the way and letting it sit in a bit of CLP/ or other oil. No need to scrub the rifle clean of rust, just soak the rust off and rub it down. Edit...had my 1916 Spandau Gew 98 out yesterday. Fun It's at the top of my to-do list for today. My grandfather is not much of a gun person, despite the fact that he's a WWII Marine vet, so it sat in his attic for years. He's an artist (he was an illustrator for Leatherneck) and bought the rifle as a prop, so I doubt he ever cleaned it. 
I'm going to have a gunsmith check the headspace before I shoot it, but I'm assuming it's chambered in 8x57 Mauser? The wiki article on these rifles says this was the standard cartridge after 1905, so since this is a 1917 rifle, this should be correct, although I don't see the "S" stamp on the barrel/receiver that 8x57 guns should have. I'd really like to replace the stock with an original, or at least a reproduction of the original. It also needs a new barrel band for the middle of the stock, as the rifle is currently missing one (feel free to correct my terminology here, I don't know much about C&R type rifles). Can anyone recommend a good place for me to start looking for these parts? Thanks for the help so far guys |
|
So this thing has been sitting in a combination of Hoppes and CLP for the past two hours and I haven't seen much improvement. Talk to me about electrolytic rust removal, I have all the ingredients except for a tub long enough to fit the barrel in it.
ETA: these fumes have me high as a fuckin kite 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good looking rifle. Any idea if it is all matching? And, do you have the rest of the butt stock? The receiver, barrel, and trigger guard are stamped 485 and the mag floorplate and bolt assembly is stamped 85. I do still have the rest of the buttstock. You're in great shape then 
Once you get it soaking in oil and cleaned up, you should be able to tell if the rest of the rifle is matching. As for the stock, it may be worth spending the coin to send it out to professional to have them splice it back together. |
|
Quoted:
Not that I'd ever sell it, but are you implying that it could be worth some money? Or that finding a replacement stock might be more expensive than just patching the one I have together? If it is all matching, it is definately worth some money. And, depending on how the butt stock looks, it would make more sense to repair the one you have, as it is original to the rifle and IIRC should be stamped somewhere on the inside with the rifles serial number. It really depends on how it looks once you get it all cleaned up, how the blueing looks, if the rest of the numbers match and what not, and what can be done to save the stock. Its a cool find though, that is for sure 
Don't see the WWI Carbines to often. |
|
Dayumn.................
I thought I was the only one that had the elusive "Short bus" Duffel Cut Mauser. I have a DOU 43 that some GI cut through the thickest portion of the stock. I ended up displaying mine in a scrubbed Yugo stock. Good luck finding a replacement set for a Kar98a  . That is mostly a beautiful rifle. Clean her up and post some pics with the rest of the wood in place
|
|
Quoted:
Not that I'd ever sell it, but are you implying that it could be worth some money? Or that finding a replacement stock might be more expensive than just patching the one I have together? About 500 bucks....several like it on gb. Rust is a killer as is any home gun smithing. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
And please put a little oil on that poor rifle. This please. I recommend taking it down all the way and letting it sit in a bit of CLP/ or other oil. No need to scrub the rifle clean of rust, just soak the rust off and rub it down. Edit...had my 1916 Spandau Gew 98 out yesterday. Fun My 1916 is a Danzig... Still in G98 trim, Lange sight and all. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't see the WWI Carbines to often. Is it? That looks like a WWII sight. But the stacking hook is WWI. Its definately WWI, essentially their version of an "engineers rifle". Kar98A or something to that effect, damn close to what would eventually become the Kar98K of WWII fame
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And please put a little oil on that poor rifle. This please. I recommend taking it down all the way and letting it sit in a bit of CLP/ or other oil. No need to scrub the rifle clean of rust, just soak the rust off and rub it down. Edit...had my 1916 Spandau Gew 98 out yesterday. Fun My 1916 is a Danzig... Still in G98 trim, Lange sight and all. Yep, one of these days I want to find a 2000 meter range and see what I hit.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And please put a little oil on that poor rifle. This please. I recommend taking it down all the way and letting it sit in a bit of CLP/ or other oil. No need to scrub the rifle clean of rust, just soak the rust off and rub it down. Edit...had my 1916 Spandau Gew 98 out yesterday. Fun My 1916 is a Danzig... Still in G98 trim, Lange sight and all. Yep, one of these days I want to find a 2000 meter range and see what I hit.
There was one at a shop down here not to long ago that still had it. Completely miss-matched weapon, but it was only $300
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't see the WWI Carbines to often. Is it? That looks like a WWII sight. But the stacking hook is WWI. Which sight? I'll get a better pic of it for yall. The rear. I was looking for a Lange or similar. 
The rear sight is one of the most corroded parts.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can always try your hand at home-electrolysis, its pretty damn good at getting rid of all that old crud. I think this is going to be what I need to do. Will it harm the bluing? So long as you are mindful of the time spent in the tank, it wont. Only starts to hurt the blueing if you leaving it in for extended periods of time. Did it with a buddy's smith a while back and we could wipe the rust away when we pulled it out, but you have to be careful and oil it soon as you get the rust off as it can start to rust back up fairly soon. YMMV |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can always try your hand at home-electrolysis, its pretty damn good at getting rid of all that old crud. I think this is going to be what I need to do. Will it harm the bluing? So long as you are mindful of the time spent in the tank, it wont. Only starts to hurt the blueing if you leaving it in for extended periods of time. Did it with a buddy's smith a while back and we could wipe the rust away when we pulled it out, but you have to be careful and oil it soon as you get the rust off as it can start to rust back up fairly soon. YMMV How long is too long? The little bit of reading I've done has said something like 24hrs at ~1.5 amps. Quoted:
Kar 98a that needs some TLC. How's the bore? ETA if it was mine I'd probably do a reverse-electrolysis job on it to undo the brown rust. I've had very good results with the process. The bore is actually in fantastic shape, especially considering it's a 95 year old rifle that used to shoot corrosive ammo. I don't see any pitting whatsoever. What's your electrolysis recipe? |
|
It all depends on how much power your getting to the solution.
When I did it, we used an old cell phone charger, not more than a couple of volts and we let it sit for 5 hours or so. I'd try and consult people who have more experience, or throw up a thread over in the C/R section of the site, they have alot of know how when it comes to de-rustifying weapons 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't see the WWI Carbines to often. Is it? That looks like a WWII sight. But the stacking hook is WWI. Which sight? I'll get a better pic of it for yall. The rear. I was looking for a Lange or similar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/thezentree/P1020368r.jpg The rear sight is one of the most corroded parts. Yeah, but it looks right. Do the numbers match the receiver? ETA: Did you see this auction? 1916 Erfurt |
|
Quoted:
It all depends on how much power your getting to the solution. When I did it, we used an old cell phone charger, not more than a couple of volts and we let it sit for 5 hours or so. I'd try and consult people who have more experience, or throw up a thread over in the C/R section of the site, they have alot of know how when it comes to de-rustifying weapons Good idea, I'll do that. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't see the WWI Carbines to often. Is it? That looks like a WWII sight. But the stacking hook is WWI. Which sight? I'll get a better pic of it for yall. The rear. I was looking for a Lange or similar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/thezentree/P1020368r.jpg The rear sight is one of the most corroded parts. Yeah, but it looks right. Do the numbers match the receiver? ETA: Did you see this auction? 1916 Erfurt Good lord! That rifle is in much better shape than mine, but it's nice to know that I've got something with some worth to it.
The sight is stamped 85, so I guess it matches the receiver. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
It all depends on how much power your getting to the solution. When I did it, we used an old cell phone charger, not more than a couple of volts and we let it sit for 5 hours or so. I'd try and consult people who have more experience, or throw up a thread over in the C/R section of the site, they have alot of know how when it comes to de-rustifying weapons Good idea, I'll do that. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't see the WWI Carbines to often. Is it? That looks like a WWII sight. But the stacking hook is WWI. Which sight? I'll get a better pic of it for yall. The rear. I was looking for a Lange or similar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/thezentree/P1020368r.jpg The rear sight is one of the most corroded parts. Yeah, but it looks right. Do the numbers match the receiver? ETA: Did you see this auction? 1916 Erfurt Good lord! That rifle is in much better shape than mine, but it's nice to know that I've got something with some worth to it.
The sight is stamped 85, so I guess it matches the receiver. Good, that's a good point. You should find the same numbers on most of the bolt parts, etc. Be careful with it. The duffel cut hurts a bunch, but it's a period damage so it's not as bad a new damage. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
It all depends on how much power your getting to the solution. When I did it, we used an old cell phone charger, not more than a couple of volts and we let it sit for 5 hours or so. I'd try and consult people who have more experience, or throw up a thread over in the C/R section of the site, they have alot of know how when it comes to de-rustifying weapons Good idea, I'll do that. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't see the WWI Carbines to often. Is it? That looks like a WWII sight. But the stacking hook is WWI. Which sight? I'll get a better pic of it for yall. The rear. I was looking for a Lange or similar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/thezentree/P1020368r.jpg The rear sight is one of the most corroded parts. Yeah, but it looks right. Do the numbers match the receiver? ETA: Did you see this auction? 1916 Erfurt Good lord! That rifle is in much better shape than mine, but it's nice to know that I've got something with some worth to it.
The sight is stamped 85, so I guess it matches the receiver. Yup yup, so far all matching. Pretty sweet deal. Any marking on the metal butt plate? |
|
Quoted: Not that I'd ever sell it, but are you implying that it could be worth some money? Or that finding a replacement stock might be more expensive than just patching the one I have together? It ain't worth shit in its current condition. I have collected alot of mausers over the years and condition is everything. Just because a gun is rare does not mean it is worth anything if it is mutilated and rusted to shit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'd sandblast it and refinish, any collectability on that thing has long passed. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not that I'd ever sell it, but are you implying that it could be worth some money? Or that finding a replacement stock might be more expensive than just patching the one I have together? It ain't worth shit in its current condition. I have collected alot of mausers over the years and condition is everything. Just because a gun is rare does not mean it is worth anything if it is mutilated and rusted to shit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'd sandblast it and refinish, any collectability on that thing has long passed. I care not, I'd never sell the thing anyway. I just want to shoot it. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good looking rifle. Any idea if it is all matching? And, do you have the rest of the butt stock? The receiver, barrel, and trigger guard are stamped 485 and the mag floorplate and bolt assembly is stamped 85. I do still have the rest of the buttstock. You're in great shape then
Once you get it soaking in oil and cleaned up, you should be able to tell if the rest of the rifle is matching. As for the stock, it may be worth spending the coin to send it out to professional to have them splice it back together. this. that is by far not the worst shape I have seen. a little tender loving care and getting the stock spliced back together and you appear to have a nice piece. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not that I'd ever sell it, but are you implying that it could be worth some money? Or that finding a replacement stock might be more expensive than just patching the one I have together? It ain't worth shit in its current condition. I have collected alot of mausers over the years and condition is everything. Just because a gun is rare does not mean it is worth anything if it is mutilated and rusted to shit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'd sandblast it and refinish, any collectability on that thing has long passed. I care not, I'd never sell the thing anyway. I just want to shoot it. Please don't blast and strip it. There's a lot of original left on that rifle. The rust isn't terrible and the stock looks great. A legit bring-back, even with the less desirable duffle cut (the "better" one was done under the front band), is not a trash rifle. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
snip Good lord! That rifle is in much better shape than mine, but it's nice to know that I've got something with some worth to it.
The sight is stamped 85, so I guess it matches the receiver. Yup yup, so far all matching. Pretty sweet deal. Any marking on the metal butt plate? It appears that I was a little premature in posting that I had the rest of the stock. I know it was with the rifle recently, so unless someone has thrown it out, it's still in the house somewhere, but I can't find it right now. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not that I'd ever sell it, but are you implying that it could be worth some money? Or that finding a replacement stock might be more expensive than just patching the one I have together? It ain't worth shit in its current condition. I have collected alot of mausers over the years and condition is everything. Just because a gun is rare does not mean it is worth anything if it is mutilated and rusted to shit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'd sandblast it and refinish, any collectability on that thing has long passed. I care not, I'd never sell the thing anyway. I just want to shoot it. Please don't blast and strip it. There's a lot of original left on that rifle. The rust isn't terrible and the stock looks great. A legit bring-back, even with the less desirable duffle cut (the "better" one was done under the front band), is not a trash rifle. Definitely not. I'm going to make it as original as possible. If I can't locate the rest of the stock and patch it together, I'll buy a new stock so I can shoot it, but otherwise I'm going to restore it as best I can. |
|
Quoted: ...The bore is actually in fantastic shape, especially considering it's a 95 year old rifle that used to shoot corrosive ammo. I don't see any pitting whatsoever. What's your electrolysis recipe? I follow this guy's methodology. http://rustyiron.com/Articles/reverseelectroly.html Simply stated, the solution is about a cup of sodium carbonate (not bicarbonate) in 4-5 gallons of water. I use a Sears car battery charger set to 12 volts, the standard charge setting. At the sides of the bucket I place sacrificial anodes consisting of pieces of rebar or scrap mild steel, connected together with copper wire (which is never immersed, just the steel is.) The POSITIVE lead of the charger (the one with the red handle) goes to the anodes. The workpiece (rifle, gently cleaned with detergent and a plastic brush if needed) gets the NEGATIVE (black) lead from the battery charger. I let it run for a few hours and check on the progress. The time needed to get the desired result depends on how thick the rust is, and (very important) how good your electrical connections are. You need to have the clips from the battery charger bite through to bare metal to get really good contact. Your workpiece (i.e. the thing you do NOT want to destroy) is the CATHODE.  IF YOU GET YOUR CONNECTIONS REVERSED, YOUR WORKPIECE WILL BE DESTROYED! Think of it this way - The positively charged hydrogen ions in the solution are drawn toward the negative charge. Hydrogen gas happily forms on the workpiece, and to some extent reduces the corrosion. The bubbling action gently removes brown rust. Negatively charged oxygen ions are attracted to the anode. Nascent oxygen forms on the surface of the anode and rusts the bejeepers out of it. After the cell has run for a while you'll have a bunch of brown rust in it. That is mostly a result of the anodes getting consumed. The process is very safe if you set it up correctly. Don't use an acid electrolyte, or table salt which will give off some chlorine gas. Sodium carbonate is safe. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
...The bore is actually in fantastic shape, especially considering it's a 95 year old rifle that used to shoot corrosive ammo. I don't see any pitting whatsoever. What's your electrolysis recipe? I follow this guy's methodology. http://rustyiron.com/Articles/reverseelectroly.html Simply stated, the solution is about a cup of sodium carbonate (not bicarbonate) in 4-5 gallons of water. I use a Sears car battery charger set to 12 volts, the standard charge setting. At the sides of the bucket I place sacrificial anodes consisting of pieces of rebar or scrap mild steel, connected together with copper wire (which is never immersed, just the steel is.) The POSITIVE lead of the charger (the one with the red handle) goes to the anodes. The workpiece (rifle, gently cleaned with detergent and a plastic brush if needed) gets the NEGATIVE (black) lead from the battery charger. I let it run for a few hours and check on the progress. The time needed to get the desired result depends on how thick the rust is, and (very important) how good your electrical connections are. You need to have the clips from the battery charger bite through to bare metal to get really good contact. Your workpiece (i.e. the thing you do NOT want to destroy) is the CATHODE. http://rustyiron.com/Resources/electrolysis.jpeg IF YOU GET YOUR CONNECTIONS REVERSED, YOUR WORKPIECE WILL BE DESTROYED! Think of it this way - The positively charged hydrogen ions in the solution are drawn toward the negative charge. Hydrogen gas happily forms on the workpiece, and to some extent reduces the corrosion. The bubbling action gently removes brown rust. Negatively charged oxygen ions are attracted to the anode. Nascent oxygen forms on the surface of the anode and rusts the bejeepers out of it. After the cell has run for a while you'll have a bunch of brown rust in it. That is mostly a result of the anodes getting consumed. The process is very safe if you set it up correctly. Don't use an acid electrolyte, or table salt which will give off some chlorine gas. Sodium carbonate is safe. Use a piece of scrap for a trial run! Just in case.... |
|
Be sure to keep us updated OP.
Interested to see how the rifle turns out after its all cleaned up and purdy again
ETA: Quoted:
Quoted:
Not that I'd ever sell it, but are you implying that it could be worth some money? Or that finding a replacement stock might be more expensive than just patching the one I have together? It ain't worth shit in its current condition. I have collected alot of mausers over the years and condition is everything. Just because a gun is rare does not mean it is worth anything if it is mutilated and rusted to shit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'd sandblast it and refinish, any collectability on that thing has long passed. 
For nearly a century old, that rifle is in good shape. The metal is fantastic compared to others I have seen. Its definately not so far gone as to be sandblasted and refinished |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Use a piece of scrap for a trial run! Just in case.... Good call. I need to go get some sodium carbonate and a pan long enough to accommodate the barrel and action. I use a paint bucket. You don't have to do the whole barrel and action at once.  I agree that it's a good idea to use a test run. Surely you have some old tools in your garage. Or buy something at a garage sale. |
|
You could always skip the electricity and do it the way a professional smith would...with Hoppes and steel wool along with a bronze brush and perhaps some soaking in penetrating oil.
Going slowly...hard to make a mistake. Other methods are easy to screw up and once metal is gone, you are not putting it back. Its one thing to mess up a Ruger 22 that you can get at Wal Mart...whole other deal to mess this up. I would drop it out of the wood and soak the crap out of it with hoppes, then brush will very fine steel wool...then a bronze brush...repeat for about two weeks for about an hour a night. Then degrease, wipe down, lube with rust preventative and live happily every after. |