Posted: 5/8/2012 5:55:01 AM EDT
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I'm putting up a good sized metal building, and about 1/3 of it will be built out with internal walls to created a nice shop, which I want to heat and AC.
So, I'd like to put an air handler and propane furnace on top of the shop ceiling, with a 120# propane tank outside and the compressor unit outside too. I would run insulated duct on top of the ceiling too, and cut supply and return vents into the shop space. Question: Where is the best place for me to buy the AC, furnace, and ductwork? And, do you think a local HVAC guy would be willing to come out and connect the AC and charge it, and probably run the propane line to the furnace? Or, am I nuts for thinking the is a DIY? |
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Whereabouts are you? Fort Worth I don't know anyone that far north. There are a few around here that will let you buy your own stuff, etc. if they know you. Some will even tell you what to do. Might ask around some of your friends and see if they know anyone. |
| You would be surprised how little it cost for the labor to install it. Most of the expense is in the parts. I would really should consider a mini-split with a separate heater. If you are going to go the A/C route, consider a packaged unit like for a hotel room, a portable building, or a mobile home. You can set the unit on the outside on the ground and duct through the wall. |
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Quoted: If you are just wanting to heat/cool the shop portion, have you considered doing a minisplit? Mitsubishi, Samsung, Quietside all make decent minisplits; and in this application it would be a lot easier/DIY then doing a full unit. I had the same thought. According to one DIY show I watched on the subject, the mini-splits come pre-charged with enough coolant to handle your system with no further charging necessary, as long as your line between the two units is under a certain length. |
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Whereabouts are you? Fort Worth I don't know anyone that far north. There are a few around here that will let you buy your own stuff, etc. if they know you. Some will even tell you what to do. Might ask around some of your friends and see if they know anyone. I have looked into this some, and identified a 2.5 ton / 40,000 BTU Goodman system that would work (I think). |
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I have looked into this some, and identified a 2.5 ton / 40,000 BTU Goodman system that would work (I think). A unit that size you should be able to cool the WHOLE building. My house (2,000SF) has a 2 ton unit. He is in Texas, he will need a bigger A/C unit than you in VA. Here in South Florida a 2 ton unit will cool about 1000 sf. Best thing to do is run a heat load calculation. You will probably need to do that anyway for permitting if it is required in your AO. |
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I've done more or less exactly what you're doing, as far as installing the furnace, ducting, etc, then having the local HVAC guy come and hook up the lines, pull a vacuum and charge it.
It is, no different in terms of profit for them than if you drove your lawn mower over the line and needed it reconnected. Actually, it should be way nicer, since there's no contamination, and everything is shiny new. I'd get to the point where you knew exactly how many feet of line were needed, had the holes drilled for it, and I'd figure out how much refrigerant you need ahead of time, and call around with that figure for quotes. There is at least one duct-less mini-split setup for DYI install, with no need to involve an HVAC professional at all. I also have a friend that got irritated at his local HVAC guys, and took the $25? online test to get the EPA Section 608 Type I certificate so he could buy whatever refrigerant he needed, bought a vacuum pump (ebay or CL), gauges, and went DIY. I don't remember what refrigerant he needed, but if it had been R-134a, R-410A, orR-404A he could have bought it without the certificate at all. |
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As far as the heat load calculations, does anybody know of an on-line resource I can use to run that. I have the building design details all worked out. Thanks. PM me your street , city ,zip code and building info including sf, ceiling height, insulation and windows/doors and I can run one for you. ETA: there are homeowner load calc sites out there but you have to pay for it. Here is one that costs $49 HVAC CALC |
| Location of the unit is key on a hot tin roof will be very uncomfortable for a short period of time......you should duct in a package unit with electric heat and heatpump application....it'll come precharge and the only thing you have to hook-up is the electric and ductwork...it'll make your job and the techs. job alot easier....East or West location if you mount it on a pad....and get the eletrostatic filter and you can wash it out and air dry and install....one more thing get a power robbing thermostate with battery backup that way it'll remember your settings... |
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As far as the heat load calculations, does anybody know of an on-line resource I can use to run that. I have the building design details all worked out. Thanks. Send me something and I'll run that laod for you. I'm sitting in front of the Carrier program right now. ETA: I see I was beaten, but the offer still stands. |
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As far as the heat load calculations, does anybody know of an on-line resource I can use to run that. I have the building design details all worked out. Thanks. PM me your street , city ,zip code and building info including sf, ceiling height, insulation and windows/doors and I can run one for you. ETA: there are homeowner load calc sites out there but you have to pay for it. Here is one that costs $49 HVAC CALC Thank you sir. The metal building is insulated, and then the framed interior shop will also be insulated. I just called Mueller Buildings to get the R-Value of their insulation, and we can go from there. PM's my e-mail too. |
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OK, I'll post some stats right here.
The metal building is 30x54, oriented north-south. The metal building will have insulation pinned between the purlins and the R-panel skin. Don't know the R-value yet, but prolly not real high. The eave height is 14 feet, 3 in 12 roof, color is light stone (nearly white). The building has a roof vent, and big roll-up doors, kind of open to air flow. The north end 1/3 of the building (18' by 30') will be framed out with 2x4 walls and skinned with sheet rock, fiber-glass insulation. The ceiling height is going to be 10 feet, using 2x10 joists, also insulated (haven't decided on thickness yet), on top of the joist will be skinned with 1/2" plywood for storage up there. The air handler will go up there too. There will be three 36" by 36" thermo-pane windows, two on the north side, one on the east side. Also and entry 3x7 door on the east side. Location is North Fort Worth (figure the city of Keller). Thanks... |
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OK, I'll post some stats right here. The metal building is 30x54, oriented north-south. The metal building will have insulation pinned between the purlins and the R-panel skin. Don't know the R-value yet, but prolly not real high. The eave height is 14 feet, 3 in 12 roof, color is light stone (nearly white). The building has a roof vent, and big roll-up doors, kind of open to air flow. The north end 1/3 of the building (18' by 30') will be framed out with 2x4 walls and skinned with sheet rock, fiber-glass insulation. The ceiling height is going to be 10 feet, using 2x10 joists, also insulated (haven't decided on thickness yet), on top of the joist will be skinned with 1/2" plywood for storage up there. The air handler will go up there too. There will be three 36" by 36" thermo-pane windows, two on the north side, one on the east side. Also and entry 3x7 door on the east side. Location is North Fort Worth (figure the city of Keller). Thanks... APPROX> 25,000 btu cooling = 2 ton 35,500 btu heating This is for the 18 X 30 room only ETA: this calc is for a stand alone building, the program doesn't give an option of just a room inside a building, so your load will be less with no sun directly on top of the room. |
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OK, I'll post some stats right here. The metal building is 30x54, oriented north-south. The metal building will have insulation pinned between the purlins and the R-panel skin. Don't know the R-value yet, but prolly not real high. The eave height is 14 feet, 3 in 12 roof, color is light stone (nearly white). The building has a roof vent, and big roll-up doors, kind of open to air flow. The north end 1/3 of the building (18' by 30') will be framed out with 2x4 walls and skinned with sheet rock, fiber-glass insulation. The ceiling height is going to be 10 feet, using 2x10 joists, also insulated (haven't decided on thickness yet), on top of the joist will be skinned with 1/2" plywood for storage up there. The air handler will go up there too. There will be three 36" by 36" thermo-pane windows, two on the north side, one on the east side. Also and entry 3x7 door on the east side. Location is North Fort Worth (figure the city of Keller). Thanks... Off the cuff....1.5 tons for the 18'x30' depending on what temp you want. Might push up to a 2 depending upon the R-value in the metal building assembly. Thos ethigns used to have an assembly R-value of about 5.5 but lately a lot of metal buildign suppliers are useing insulation closer to R-13. |
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OK, I'll post some stats right here. The metal building is 30x54, oriented north-south. The metal building will have insulation pinned between the purlins and the R-panel skin. Don't know the R-value yet, but prolly not real high. The eave height is 14 feet, 3 in 12 roof, color is light stone (nearly white). The building has a roof vent, and big roll-up doors, kind of open to air flow. The north end 1/3 of the building (18' by 30') will be framed out with 2x4 walls and skinned with sheet rock, fiber-glass insulation. The ceiling height is going to be 10 feet, using 2x10 joists, also insulated (haven't decided on thickness yet), on top of the joist will be skinned with 1/2" plywood for storage up there. The air handler will go up there too. There will be three 36" by 36" thermo-pane windows, two on the north side, one on the east side. Also and entry 3x7 door on the east side. Location is North Fort Worth (figure the city of Keller). Thanks... Off the cuff....1.5 tons for the 18'x30' depending on what temp you want. Might push up to a 2 depending upon the R-value in the metal building assembly. Thos ethigns used to have an assembly R-value of about 5.5 but lately a lot of metal buildign suppliers are useing insulation closer to R-13. I agree with this, 1.5 tons should do it. However the equipment cost difference between a 1.5 and 2 ton is almost nil, so go with the 2 ton. |
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Man, you guys are awesome, thank you so much.
BTW, the Mueller insulation is R-10, which is better then I expected. I'm leaning toward 2-ton then, as we get some brutal hot-spells that stress these systems. ALso, what about the furnace, 40,000 BTU sound about right? ETA, reading is fundamental,  I'll go with the 40k furnace.
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