Posted: 4/29/2012 3:34:21 PM EDT
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Saw this happen today.....at the Island Lake State Park Shooting Range in southern Michigan. Pretty large outdoor range, and it was full. One of the rules is that if you are carrying concealed, you can't draw your CC and use it. You have to go back to your car, clear it, case it, etc. Then bring it back to the range. But concealed carry is ok.
A guy comes in open carrying (legal here). The range officer tells him no open carry, that it is a safety issue. The guy tried to argue and then just gave up....went back to his car, secured the handgun, and went on shooting his rifle. That didn't make sense to me.....my 1911 under my shirt is ok, but his in the open is not? |
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Saw this happen today.....at the Island Lake State Park Shooting Range in southern Michigan. Pretty large outdoor range, and it was full. One of the rules is that if you are carrying concealed, you can't draw your CC and use it. You have to go back to your car, clear it, case it, etc. Then bring it back to the range. But concealed carry is ok. A guy comes in open carrying (legal here). The range officer tells him no open carry, that it is a safety issue. The guy tried to argue and then just gave up....went back to his car, secured the handgun, and went on shooting his rifle. That didn't make sense to me.....my 1911 under my shirt is ok, but his in the open is not? I had the same issue at Top Gun in Taylor. I was shooting a .22 rifle with my XD holstered openly. At no time did I ever draw my gun on the range. After we were done (an hour) I had an employee ask me to cover up. Not before I hit the range (I entered the shop OC'ing). Afterwards I was standing next to a CBP officer in full uniform (OC'ing of course). I asked why does it matter. The shop's reasoning was that I would pull my gun and try it in holsters. I didn't get a response as to how my shirt prevented me from doing that. I've only had 2 issues with open carry in the Detroit area. Both have been in gun shops. Their shop their rules. My money goes elsewhere. |
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isn't Michigan where they rat people out for having a double tap? Yup the hookers will report you to the PoPo for blowing your load twice without paying double. So if I don't blow my load, I don't have to pay? Blue balls makes you pay, you will pay one way or the other. |
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Our club is no loaded guns on the line when it is cold. Period. Then the guy said "I know some of y'all carry concealed. Keep it concealed and we'll just assume it's not a rules violation."
Open carry might make it too easy for some do gooder to bitch about, everyone to think/worry about, etc. Out of sight out of mind with concealed. |
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Quoted: Quoted: isn't Michigan where they rat people out for having a double tap? Huh? sorry, my bad, its Wisconson, not Michigan http://www.libertybelles.org/articles/criminalbatfe.htm please forgive me
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Quoted: Saw this happen today.....at the Island Lake State Park Shooting Range in southern Michigan. Pretty large outdoor range, and it was full. One of the rules is that if you are carrying concealed, you can't draw your CC and use it. You have to go back to your car, clear it, case it, etc. Then bring it back to the range. But concealed carry is ok. A guy comes in open carrying (legal here). The range officer tells him no open carry, that it is a safety issue. The guy tried to argue and then just gave up....went back to his car, secured the handgun, and went on shooting his rifle. That didn't make sense to me.....my 1911 under my shirt is ok, but his in the open is not? Most gun owners are complete retards thats why ranges have stupid rules. Stupid people are the reasons for stupid laws and rules.
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The range I shot at in So Carolina had the same rule. No holster-carry at the range... I was told it was because they didn't allow drawing and shooting from the holster...
Which I broke when I was all by myself on a weekday, and no one else was around. I live on the edge... The range rule was the gun had to be on the table with the muzzle pointed down range. You could draw from the table, shoot, then place the gun back on the table... There was one time when a cop was shooting from his holster on the far end of the firing line, he asked if I minded. I said I didn't care. I hadn't brought a holster, or I would have joined him in some drawing-from-the-holster shenanigans... Meh... Their range, their rules. |
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Idiots try to draw and fire without the training to do so and it creates a real ND danger. Get a more exclusive private range that focuses on self-defense. SURE DOES.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3kJ6SU3ycs |
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Saw this happen today.....at the Island Lake State Park Shooting Range in southern Michigan. Pretty large outdoor range, and it was full. One of the rules is that if you are carrying concealed, you can't draw your CC and use it. You have to go back to your car, clear it, case it, etc. Then bring it back to the range. But concealed carry is ok. A guy comes in open carrying (legal here). The range officer tells him no open carry, that it is a safety issue. The guy tried to argue and then just gave up....went back to his car, secured the handgun, and went on shooting his rifle. That didn't make sense to me.....my 1911 under my shirt is ok, but his in the open is not? Most gun owners are complete retards thats why ranges have stupid rules. Exactly! |
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Quoted: Saw this happen today.....at the Island Lake State Park Shooting Range in southern Michigan. Pretty large outdoor range, and it was full. One of the rules is that if you are carrying concealed, you can't draw your CC and use it. You have to go back to your car, clear it, case it, etc. Then bring it back to the range. But concealed carry is ok. A guy comes in open carrying (legal here). The range officer tells him no open carry, that it is a safety issue. The guy tried to argue and then just gave up....went back to his car, secured the handgun, and went on shooting his rifle. That didn't make sense to me.....my 1911 under my shirt is ok, but his in the open is not? I shoot at this range somewhat often. It's not perfect but it's a nice place to shoot and the range officers keep things under control well. When they call a target change it is very controlled. A lot of the guys are older, a lot of them are Vets and ex Cops. It's a great place to take new shooters because of the structure. Some may not like the rules, but I feel reasonably confident that I will not get shot there since everyone goes downrange and the weapons are left on the bench after being checked. If you're CCing, which I am 100% of the time "the gun isn't there". Them saying NO to OCing is not to restrict your right, it's just for safety and the perception of what safety looks like. If you've got a lot of new shooters who are just learning safe gun handling, seeing the OCed weapon downrange with everyone checking their targets might make them go  .Besides that, the residents in the area FUCKING HATE that range. I'm not saying a guy OCing would be that thing, but they would love for there to be some incident out there to get the place shut down. DP |
| It sounds like I've been really fortunate with the ranges I goto. I mostly use Army MWR ranges. Not alot of rules other then basic common sense and safety stuff. We get the occasional person that causes problems, by accident or ignorance (usually a young soldier that has never fired a firearm outside of a tightly controlled enviroment or someone not keeping a close eye on a kid) but there's usually someone around willing to straighten them out (I've spent more then a few hours teaching a first time pistol shooter how to handle a pistol properly). People that are going to be doing somethign that might make the other shooters uncomfortable (ie. off-hand from the prone or transition drills) usually move to the end of the firing line and let the others know. Outright asshats are rare, and usually run off by the shooters, so the staff leave us alone. |
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public ranges rarely make any sense.
We have a few that insist all guns be left on the becnh action open despite if you are the only one there....... amazingly.....the local criminal element has deiscovered this rule...and has stolen more than a few guns while the owners are down range. I trust no one at ranges these days unless they rode with me in the car and I know them personally. |
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Saw this happen today.....at the Island Lake State Park Shooting Range in southern Michigan. Pretty large outdoor range, and it was full. One of the rules is that if you are carrying concealed, you can't draw your CC and use it. You have to go back to your car, clear it, case it, etc. Then bring it back to the range. But concealed carry is ok. A guy comes in open carrying (legal here). The range officer tells him no open carry, that it is a safety issue. The guy tried to argue and then just gave up....went back to his car, secured the handgun, and went on shooting his rifle. That didn't make sense to me.....my 1911 under my shirt is ok, but his in the open is not? I shoot at this range somewhat often. It's not perfect but it's a nice place to shoot and the range officers keep things under control well. When they call a target change it is very controlled. A lot of the guys are older, a lot of them are Vets and ex Cops. It's a great place to take new shooters because of the structure. Some may not like the rules, but I feel reasonably confident that I will not get shot there since everyone goes downrange and the weapons are left on the bench after being checked. If you're CCing, which I am 100% of the time "the gun isn't there". Them saying NO to OCing is not to restrict your right, it's just for safety and the perception of what safety looks like. If you've got a lot of new shooters who are just learning safe gun handling, seeing the OCed weapon downrange with everyone checking their targets might make them go .
Besides that, the residents in the area FUCKING HATE that range. I'm not saying a guy OCing would be that thing, but they would love for there to be some incident out there to get the place shut down. DP I shoot at Bald Mountain more than Island Lake....if I'm not mistaken, they are state owned but run by a private company, both ranges by the same outfit. There are MAJOR differences at the 2 ranges, however. I find that the Island Lake RO's are a little bit Billy Bad Ass. One of there questions is "When is the last time you were here?"....go ahead and answer that question with "Not in awhile, but I go to Bald Mountain once a week".......they will get real hardass and let you know that "Things are a little different here boy". I completely appreciate the difficulty of running a public range......But I do find it amusing to see a bunch of 25 year olds living out thier Drill Sgt. fantasy. |
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3 RO's yesterday......2 of them were reasonable, one of them all decked out in a bunch of surplus gear. My son and I had brought his fiance and FOI to be. They were both already prepped on basic safety and they were doing fine. I let them shoot my AR, and we were working through some revolvers, when "THE DI" stopped by to tell my sons girl that she was gripping the revolver wrong....."well, not wrong but if that were a Glock she would be getting slide bite"
It was one of those classic moments of a guy trying to come up with a reason to speak to a cute girl. But at least his camo pants were bloused.....
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3 RO's yesterday......2 of them were reasonable, one of them all decked out in a bunch of surplus gear. My son and I had brought his fiance and FOI to be. They were both already prepped on basic safety and they were doing fine. I let them shoot my AR, and we were working through some revolvers, when "THE DI" stopped by to tell my sons girl that she was gripping the revolver wrong....."well, not wrong but if that were a Glock she would be getting slide bite" It was one of those classic moments of a guy trying to come up with a reason to speak to a cute girl. But at least his camo pants were bloused..... To a certain extent, I can understand some ranges having rules nazis due to this country being so damn happy to sue for the smallest shit. Don't like it, but can understand. But I hate punks like that and don't hesitate to tell them to STFU and move on. If nobody in my group is doing something unsafe or asking for help, leave us alone. Seen it happen at Army MWR ranges (I taught a few of my neighbors wives to shoot after a neighbor creep/peeper incident and most of the husbands were deployed) with other shooters and happened to me at a range near Burton MI named Advanced something with a RO hitting on my 14yo cousin. I'd rather get booted from a range then put up with a jackass like that. Usually the guys like that at MWR ranges don't stick around too long. You keep going around hitting on Army wives and GFs at a range and you're going to get your behaviour adjusted in a way you will not like. That's why I'm more determined then ever to get a nice rural piece of land and bulldoze up some berms when I retire. If I want to shoot my rifle with my pistol on my hip, i damn well will. And I say that someone with the know-how should start a website where people can post ratings and reviews of gunstores and ranges nation-wide. There rate my dr, rate my teacher and a website where you can rate and write reviews for your fav 'gentlemens club'. Why don't we have one for gun stores and ranges? If the RO is a drill sgt wannbe or they don't allow holster carry or draw and shoot, let people know before they waste time driving there and paying the fees. |
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I am glad I belong to a private rod&gun club.
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Saw this happen today.....at the Island Lake State Park Shooting Range in southern Michigan. Pretty large outdoor range, and it was full. One of the rules is that if you are carrying concealed, you can't draw your CC and use it. You have to go back to your car, clear it, case it, etc. Then bring it back to the range. But concealed carry is ok. A guy comes in open carrying (legal here). The range officer tells him no open carry, that it is a safety issue. The guy tried to argue and then just gave up....went back to his car, secured the handgun, and went on shooting his rifle. That didn't make sense to me.....my 1911 under my shirt is ok, but his in the open is not? |
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Idiots try to draw and fire without the training to do so and it creates a real ND danger. Get a more exclusive private range that focuses on self-defense. True, and remember that range rules are designed to reign in the lowest common denominator idiot. If open carry passes in Oklahoma, it will be interesting to see how the range Nazis Board of Directors handles it here. Probably the same, for the same reasons. Ranges need insurance to stay open, even one instance of some idiot shooting themselves or others will make insurance go way up, firearms in holsters are an open invitation for idiots to practice their quick draw... So instead of banning idiots, or banning unsafe drawing, they will go all the way and ban holsters. That's a rule that can be enforced before the fact. Enforcing rules gives people a sense of power. And when the idiot shoots himself anyway, you can insist that he violated a rule (as if shooting yourself or others wasn't already a rule violation.) Case in point: somebody left trash (plastic bottles, cans) on the short range. To avoid trash being left in the future, the board decided only paper targets would be allowed on the short range. Non paper targets on the long range or Plinking range? Sure, that's fine. Just not on the short range. A club officer brags every year at the safety brief about how he ran off some member who was filling plastic bottles with water, presumably to shoot on the short range. He could have told him to go to the long range instead. Maybe he did, and the guy left to avoid the oppressive cloud of inconsistent rule making. Dumb rules build up like sediment on the sea floor. Once you've accepted one rule of marginal utility, it becomes easier to justify others. Pretty soon you end up with one shot per minute, no firing offhand, kneeling or prone, yada yada. |