[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Building Custom AR vs. SCAR (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/29/2012 1:28:02 PM EDT
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Well I was putting together an excel sheet with pricing of the AR that I would like to build and once i totaled up all the cells i couldnt help but to notice the price was in SCAR territory. So my question to you guys is why would i go ahead and build this rifle instead of just buying a scar. I would like to hear peoples reasoning for spending this much money on the AR platform vs going with the new SCAR. I dont want a my gun is better than your thread just your thought process on the reasons to go custom AR over SCAR if there even is any. Thank you for any and all input.
Below are the specs of the rifle i was looking at building. Noveske 16" Recon 5.56mm Barrel w/ Gas Block Vltor MUR (Modular Upper Receiver) w/ Bolt Assist & Shell Deflector (M4) BCM Bolt Carrier Group (MPI) - Auto BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) w/ Mod 4 (MEDIUM) Latch Muzzle Break (Battle Comp 2.0 SVC Spikes Melonited Gas Tube - Mid Length Barrel Nut Rail 11" (Troy Alpha Rail or Samson Evolution) Troy BattleSight Front Tritium M4 Folding Troy BattleSight Rear Di-Optic Aperture (DOA) Folding Upper Total $1430 Noveske Gen2 Lower Stripped Lower Parts Kit Geissele Trigger VLTOR EMOD Stock Kit Lower Total $670 *Bad ASS ambi Safety *Norgon Ambi Mag Release Upgrade Total $150 Grand Total $ 2250 |
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You really aren't being honest about SOCOMS decision... and you know it. Socom dropped the SCAR Mk16 in favor of using those funds for the more popular SCAR Mk17. Contract after contract rolls in from big govt for the Mk17, and it is performing well in its role. While there are some soldiers that prefer the M4, there are also plenty that prefer the SCAR. And I don't think the Mk16 is overpriced for what you get. It is really similarly priced to a comparibly equipped M4. Heck i wish i could drop the idea of a 16 for a 17. But i just cant afford the difference in ammo for the amount that im going to be shooting. |
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You really aren't being honest about SOCOMS decision... and you know it. Socom dropped the SCAR Mk16 in favor of using those funds for the more popular SCAR Mk17. Contract after contract rolls in from big govt for the Mk17, and it is performing well in its role. While there are some soldiers that prefer the M4, there are also plenty that prefer the SCAR. And I don't think the Mk16 is overpriced for what you get. It is really similarly priced to a comparibly equipped M4. I never mentioned the MK17. The MK17 is a very nice rifle but theres not a lot of battle rifles anyways. As far as the MK16 it honestly doesnt do anythig over a Block II M4A1. I also fail to see how they are priced similarly. Yours cost $3,000 My MO18 cost $2,300 and it has a geiselle ssa and a $200 stamp, take those away and we have $1,900 for a similar rifle. Main thigs the scar brings Folding stock- not needed, this is more of a niche feature. Forward CH- ill give you this Piston- DI seems to be doing fine. Monolithic- the Block II is FF with a rail so not much there |
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You really aren't being honest about SOCOMS decision... and you know it. Socom dropped the SCAR Mk16 in favor of using those funds for the more popular SCAR Mk17. Contract after contract rolls in from big govt for the Mk17, and it is performing well in its role. While there are some soldiers that prefer the M4, there are also plenty that prefer the SCAR. And I don't think the Mk16 is overpriced for what you get. It is really similarly priced to a comparibly equipped M4. I never mentioned the MK17. The MK17 is a very nice rifle but theres not a lot of battle rifles anyways. As far as the MK16 it honestly doesnt do anythig over a Block II M4A1. I also fail to see how they are priced similarly. Yours cost $3,000 My MO18 cost $2,300 and it has a geiselle ssa and a $200 stamp, take those away and we have $1,900 for a similar rifle. Main thigs the scar brings Folding stock- not needed, this is more of a niche feature. Forward CH- ill give you this Piston- DI seems to be doing fine. Monolithic- the Block II is FF with a rail so not much there Then what's the point of buying the MK17? The military can acquire a 7.62 with all the same DI AR features found on the M4. One other advantage of the scar which I prefer over my ARs is that it is much simpler to break down and maintain. It's like they took 50 years of lessons learned and incorporated them into an updated version of the AR. That's really my favorite thing about the scar. I feel like it is a step forward rather than just a better version of the same 50 year old design. |
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Quoted: Edited...VA-gunnut OP what did you think of the SCAR buttstock? I was handling one yesterday at the gun shop and wasn't as impressed with that aspect as compared to the rest of the rifle. To be honest i haven't handled one yet. I know some may feel its ridiculous to ask about two rifles that you haven't handled but there's a reason. First, I don't know anyone with the LaRue and Second, the SCAR that is available for rent at my range is not available on the weekends because is Full auto and i haven't found time during the week to go shoot it yet. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Edited...VA-gunnut OP what did you think of the SCAR buttstock? I was handling one yesterday at the gun shop and wasn't as impressed with that aspect as compared to the rest of the rifle. To be honest i haven't handled one yet. I know some may feel its ridiculous to ask about two rifles that you haven't handled but there's a reason. First, I don't know anyone with the LaRue and Second, the SCAR that is available for rent at my range is not available on the weekends because is Full auto and i haven't found time during the week to go shoot it yet. The buttstock has a reputation in the military of breaking. IIRC, there is a plastic component that you can replace with metal to fix this. But I haven't heard of anyone breaking one in civilian usage. I like the stock. I am 6'5 and have long arms. I have found that it fits me just fine - not necessarily better than any other modern stock though. I do like the fact that it folds. It makes it much more compact when stowing it - or when having it draped over your shoulder. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Edited...VA-gunnut OP what did you think of the SCAR buttstock? I was handling one yesterday at the gun shop and wasn't as impressed with that aspect as compared to the rest of the rifle. To be honest i haven't handled one yet. I know some may feel its ridiculous to ask about two rifles that you haven't handled but there's a reason. First, I don't know anyone with the LaRue and Second, the SCAR that is available for rent at my range is not available on the weekends because is Full auto and i haven't found time during the week to go shoot it yet. I could find time to shoot a full auto SCAR, that would be cool.  |
| There's no reason to attack each other here. These debates are supposed to be in good fun and I'm afraid all the fun has disappeared. Sinless is somewhat of an ACR guy and its' okay to poke fun at him for that, but going beyond that has nothing to do with what were discussing and is just not cool. |
Well I don't really have input on a SCAR, since I've never shot one. But one way to look to look at it is... You can either have a bone stock SCAR or an AR-15 with all the goodies you want, already on it. I built my first AR for just under the 2 grand mark. I was also looking at investing in a SCAR, but never looked back and I have no regrets. Ultimately, it's your money and your gun. But my vote is for the AR. Keep us updated 
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1. That's a boutique build.....all top of the range parts. Outrageous cost for mouse gun, IMO.
If I wanted a boutique mouse I would buy a complete Noveske or similar. I would much rather be getting a 308AR for that much green. 2. I can't get past the fugly SCAR looks (too Euro) and its non-modularity. |
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personally, I don't see what the SCAR 16 gives over a custom AR15.
ask yourself, what is a $2300 SCAR doing that a custom AR15 doesn't? in your case, you picked some "boutique" parts (VLTOR MUR, Tritium and DOA sights) that could be replaced with standard parts that would have very little impact on the function or accuracy of your AR15 and save substantial cost - the Noveske barrel should give better or equal accuracy to the SCAR - parts for the AR15 will be more readily available and cheaper than for the SCAR - are SCAR mags AR compatible? if not, that's another added cost and availability issue - the geissele trigger is far superior than the stock scar triggers i've played with - if your budget is limited, you can piece together the AR over time (no one time $2300 hit) - if you're already familiar with the AR15 platform, you don't need to learn a new manual of arms - AR15 aftermarket is huge and plays into the modularity and "re-configurability" of the platform (stocks, rails, grips, sights, etc) as opposed to the SCAR that is what it is. |
| SCARs are nice. I shot my buddy's a few times. Definitely a smooth running weapon. I don't think I'd buy one for myself though as I haven't quite seen anything significant that they can do that an AR can't. Shooting the 16" SCAR and a 14.5" AR with Surefire brake side by side...the difference in recoil was negligible and sometimes difficult to discern. |
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personally, I don't see what the SCAR 16 gives over a custom AR15. ask yourself, what is a $2300 SCAR doing that a custom AR15 doesn't? in your case, you picked some "boutique" parts (VLTOR MUR, Tritium and DOA sights) that could be replaced with standard parts that would have very little impact on the function or accuracy of your AR15 and save substantial cost - the Noveske barrel should give better or equal accuracy to the SCAR - parts for the AR15 will be more readily available and cheaper than for the SCAR - are SCAR mags AR compatible? if not, that's another added cost and availability issue only an issue with the 17 - the geissele trigger is far superior than the stock scar triggers i've played with - if your budget is limited, you can piece together the AR over time (no one time $2300 hit) - if you're already familiar with the AR15 platform, you don't need to learn a new manual of arms - AR15 aftermarket is huge and plays into the modularity and "re-configurability" of the platform (stocks, rails, grips, sights, etc) as opposed to the SCAR that is what it is. Quoted:
SCARs are nice. I shot my buddy's a few times. Definitely a smooth running weapon. I don't think I'd buy one for myself though as I haven't quite seen anything significant that they can do that an AR can't. Shooting the 16" SCAR and a 14.5" AR with Surefire brake side by side...the difference in recoil was negligible and sometimes difficult to discern. Other than what I highlighter in red and replied to in blue since the 16 can use regular GI mags but, not standard PMAGS, These two posts pretty much mimic my personal experience after owning a SCAR for a little over a year. Compared to my 14.5" and SR15 E3, there wasn't any significant improvements for me to feel the SCAR had any advantages over a well built AR. The AR, to me, handled better than the SCAR and was noticably lighter than the AR's I am comparing them to. |
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I like the ACR. Its packed full of magpul goodness. I like the idea that I can swap calibers in a matter of minutes (ie go from unsuppressed 223 to suppressed 300 black out). I know Bushmaster doesn't currently have any available but they are SUPPOSEDLY in the works. For now, I've seen guys with what I believe are converted AR15 barrels. I like my AR 15 but I also like th ACR. It is a quality piece of engineering that improved some aspects of the AR15 as did the SCAR. I like the improvements on both systems such as the repositioned charging handle. This is my opinion and I'm sure others will not agree, but at the end of the day you will have a gun that will do the same the other one could. The AR15 would just be loaded with all the tactiCOOL accessories people on the forum like or you would have a bare bones SCAR. I don't regret spending more for my ACR because I appreciate a quality piece of engineering (not to say the AR15 is not just the ACR is new technology). This forum will obviously be biased since everyone here is an AR15 fan/owner. I say one of each.
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| OK OK not a lot of love for the SCAR here. LOL So the PredatOBR was mentioned, would this be a better solution that the rifle im trying to build? I want the best rifle i can possibly get for around $2,000. I want it to last a long time (barrel) I want it as accurate as possible, and i want it to go bang every time i pull the trigger no matter if its super clean and lubed or not. Again thanks for all the info guys. |
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OK OK not a lot of love for the SCAR here. LOL So the PredatOBR was mentioned, would this be a better solution that the rifle im trying to build? I want the best rifle i can possibly get for around $2,000. I want it to last a long time (barrel) I want it as accurate as possible, and i want it to go bang every time i pull the trigger no matter if its super clean and lubed or not. Again thanks for all the info guys. You should contact Kevin O'Neill at High Caliber sales. For $2K he can put you in one of his perfect RECCE uppers on a complete LMT lower. For a little more a KAC lower with the KAC 2 stage trigger. Check him out, he is putting out a"correct" (as can be) RECCE with the Douglas barrel. I have not shot mine yet, as it is just assembled, but others are getting amazing results. And Kevin is a fine gentleman who will get your gear to you quick. 
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OK OK not a lot of love for the SCAR here. LOL So the PredatOBR was mentioned, would this be a better solution that the rifle im trying to build? I want the best rifle i can possibly get for around $2,000. I want it to last a long time (barrel) I want it as accurate as possible, and i want it to go bang every time i pull the trigger no matter if its super clean and lubed or not. Again thanks for all the info guys. I'd say yes. The predatOBR would be just about the end all. I still prefer the predatAR though. PredatAR in 14.5 middy with an adjustable gas block would be my perfect rifle. |
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My 2 cents, and there's a lot of good discussion here, but your AR list has a lot more to do with brand names than needs. Sorry, not to sound like I'm bashing your rifle, but I'm not sure you need all of the 'bling' list that you have, and you'll always more buying parts.
See what that rifle would go for used, complete on the EE and then you'll start to see what I mean. Or even better, having the patience, the cheapness, and obsession to comb over the used often like new, or even new parts list to find what you need, a barrel w/200 rounds on it is nothing to me. I once scored a used complete LMT MRP, my shtf, rifle for $900.00 bucks because it was dirty. It came in to my local gun shop, I came in five minuets later, asked how much picked my jaw off the floor and walked out with it. I went home, expected to find a few dings in the rail or something, I cleaned it up, it looked brand new. For me, if it's got a good rep, and is made to specs I know such as carpenter steel for bolts, HPT/MPI, etc.I'll pop for a lesser name manufacturer, I'd bet they came from the same source, and I might save enough money to get it coated w/Nickel Boron or NP3, for me that's more important than brand X over brand Y. Save the money, go for some just as good parts from some cheaper or used like new sources, and spend that money on ammo or an optic. Sometimes I'll go for new, like the Samson evo rail on your list, of course as soon as I bought it new one popped up for thirty bucks less, still in wrapper. If you want the SCAR get it, but I think your AR build is about the most expensive way you could go about building an AR. |
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The SCAR is cool..But man for the money you can get one nice AR. What it comes down to is what kind of shooting you intend on doing. There are a few things that make each weapon system a little different. shoot both. but keep in mind that your shooting technique will probably change over time as you lean to control rapid fire better. If that's what your going to do.
AR's are like a sickness. first you buy one for fun and shooting etc.. then you want to get a little more serious with it. The next thing you know your buying a timer and focusing on reloads, malfunction drills, and speed accuracy drills. Your stance, grip, gear, and everything you first put on your AR will be different and changing. So be careful. So though you may shoot both..try and think also about other factors that you may need to do some research and extensive shooting on before you decide. Personally I would pick an SCAR over the ACR, but would pick any tricked out AR just the way I want it over bother platforms any day. I once considered selling my AR to get an ACR..until I shot one. I don't think the SCAR would change my mind either. |
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And you still don't get the SCAR's 1) Monolithic upper 2) Folding Stock 3) Adjustable gas Unless you get an AR with a monolithic upper and adjustable gas block.... But no folding stock, can't really see why that'd be a big selling point though. If anything, I'd try an ACR if you wanted to go with something new, just because I haven't realized I don't care for that one and wasted money on it already |
sinlesssorrow - there was no need for you to lash out like you did. I agree that people looking for your personal info is unacceptable, but you should have hit the report button. Since I didn't see you actually insulting anyone, I will forgo an account warning this time.  Everyone else - calm down RIGHT NOW, This is a technical forum, which means it's no place to act a fool.  I commented out all the off-topic stuff to settle the thread down, so everyone had better keep it on-topic from now on. People can disagree, but keep it respectful. Make sure to hit the Report button if things get out of hand or IM me if you have other issues. Thanks. |
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sinlesssorrow - there was no need for you to lash out like you did. I agree that people looking for your personal info is unacceptable, but you should have hit the report button. Since I didn't see you actually insulting anyone, I will forgo an account warning this time.
Everyone else - calm down RIGHT NOW, This is a technical forum, which means it's no place to act a fool.
I commented out all the off-topic stuff to settle the thread down, so everyone had better keep it on-topic from now on. People can disagree, but keep it respectful. Make sure to hit the Report button if things get out of hand or IM me if you have other issues. Thanks. Sorry about that. You are correct i should have hit the port button. Now back to our scheduled broadcast :) The SCAR-17 is a fun rifle to shoot |
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To stay on topic and hopefully help the OP decide, you really can't go wrong with either one.
Personally, while I think the SCAR-16S is a great weapon, it would not be my first choice. I find it a little on the bulky side, mag compatibility is a bit of an issue for me, the stock to be not as robust as something like a SOPMOD, and a little heavy for what it is. More importantly the rail on it is extremely short for my taste. Keep in mind with the SCAR you are stuck with that rail system since the upper receiver is monolithic. Now you can get and add on to extend the rail, but now you're talking in the 8 pound category before optics and a light if you choose to add them. I find it silly for the barrel to be hanging out there so long. If your intent was to SBR the gun, then I would be more inclined to choose the SCAR-16S. If I was in your position, I personally would buy a KAC SR-15 E3 for that money. You'd be getting an extremely lightweight gun (7lbs despite the long URX) that has been built around the 16inch barrel instead of a gun that has had a few inches tacked on to the barrel for the ATF. It's even more ambi than the SCAR, comes standard with a $200 LMT SOPMOD stock so if that's not your preference, you can easily sell it, a really really nice trigger, a few other features, but best of all it's not just another AR. Instead it's the AR reworked (more reliably) to arguably its full potential. Like the SCAR, it's in its separate class. So I would get the SR-15. Oh wait... I did. 
Again, this is obviously something for you to decide. We are hear just to give you ideas/offer different opinions. |
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To stay on topic and hopefully help the OP decide, you really can't go wrong with either one. Personally, while I think the SCAR-16S is a great weapon, it would not be my first choice. I find it a little on the bulky side, mag compatibility is a bit of an issue for me, the stock to be not as robust as something like a SOPMOD, and a little heavy for what it is. More importantly the rail on it is extremely short for my taste. Keep in mind with the SCAR you are stuck with that rail system since the upper receiver is monolithic. Now you can get and add on to extend the rail, but now you're talking in the 8 pound category before optics and a light if you choose to add them. I find it silly for the barrel to be hanging out there so long. If your intent was to SBR the gun, then I would be more inclined to choose the SCAR-16S. If I was in your position, I personally would buy a KAC SR-15 E3 for that money. You'd be getting an extremely lightweight gun (7lbs despite the long URX) that has been built around the 16inch barrel instead of a gun that has had a few inches tacked on to the barrel for the ATF. It's even more ambi than the SCAR, comes standard with a $200 LMT SOPMOD stock so if that's not your preference, you can easily sell it, a really really nice trigger, a few other features, but best of all it's not just another AR. Instead it's the AR reworked (more reliably) to arguably its full potential. Like the SCAR, it's in its separate class. So I would get the SR-15. Oh wait... I did.
http://s14.postimage.org/8vjg3r1cx/IMG_20110817_131439_1.jpg Again, this is obviously something for you to decide. We are hear just to give you ideas/offer different opinions. And I Greatly appreciate this. Ive learn alot form this forum thats why i love coming here. I think you all have had me sold on 6 differnt rifles in the last 6 days though Every night I come home I tell the wife I found the one I want and now shes starting to say, "Yeah until you got online tomorrow and change your mind. LOL
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I have a SCAR-16s and some "boutique" AR's.
The SCAR sits in my safe because I prefer the AR's for several reasons, key of which are: 1. Sling attachment points SUCK on the SCAR 2. Finding an optic that doesn't bust your knuckles when you charge the weapon is a serious challenge 3. Good luck adding more 1913 rail real estate to the hand guard (stock rail on SCAR is comparable to carbine length) The SCAR is light, and a nice shooter but as much as I like it I'd pick one of my AR's every time. Things might change as accessories become available, but for the time being there is no advantage to running it over a quality AR platform. I'm eagerly anticipating the factory short barrel assemblies becoming available this summer from FN for the SCAR as it'd be a fantastic SBR. |