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Posted: 6/25/2002 3:17:13 AM EDT
Ok, this Elizabeth Smart kidnapping bothers me in a lot of ways. I just find some things about it to be very odd, but I'm not sure if I may have missed something. 1. Elizabeth Smart lived with her parents and younger sister in what appears to be a large home in an "exclusive, upscale neighborhood" with home prices in the $350-550k price range. 2. The smarts had been burglarized last year by a contractor they had hired. 3. A year later, their oldest daughter is abducted while the 9 year old witnesses the events. 4. They don't seem to have an alarm system(!), even after their expensive home is burglarized. Why not? 5. Their 14 year and 9 year old daughters slept together in the same bedroom. Now, I don't know about you, but what teenage girl wants to share a bedroom, much less a bed, with a little girl? Why would you do that to two kids when you've got a big house? 6. Supposedly the little girl was originally told by the abductor to keep quiet. But now they say she was hiding and waited to tell her parents when she thought it was safe. If she was sleeping in the same bed/room as her older sister then how did she get a chance to hide? It doesn't add up to me. Something is fishy about the whole thing. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:25:36 AM EDT
It's similar to the JonBenet Ramsey case.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:33:10 AM EDT
There's a lot that puzzles me about the whole case, as well. I don't know these parents at all, but the word 'distressed' does not appear to be in their vocabulary. Maybe they are just stoic folks, or something. Eric The(WeShallSee,WeShallSurelySee)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:35:42 AM EDT
They have stated that they do have an alarm system, but they only turn it on when they are away. They said that the children would trip the motion sensors during the night. Now, why they couldn't disable the motion sensors so that they could arm the alarm when they were home, I don't know. Also, I've heard that they shared a bedroom, but I haven't heard that they were sleeping in the same bed. It doesn't seem that unusual to me that they were in the same room. It could have been a very large bedroom and the two sisters might have enjoyed being together in the same room. However, I do agree with you that it seems very mysterious and that nothing seems to be comming from the investigation. I'm afraid that they girl has probably been dead for some time now.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:39:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: They have stated that they do have an alarm system, but they only turn it on when they are away. They said that the children would trip the motion sensors during the night. Now, why they couldn't disable the motion sensors so that they could arm the alarm when they were home, I don't know. Also, I've heard that they shared a bedroom, but I haven't heard that they were sleeping in the same bed. It doesn't seem that unusual to me that they were in the same room. It could have been a very large bedroom and the two sisters might have enjoyed being together in the same room. However, I do agree with you that it seems very mysterious and that nothing seems to be comming from the investigation. I'm afraid that they girl has probably been dead for some time now.
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Sisters ENJOYING being together in the same room? I guess you don't have sisters or you've never witnessed sisters in a cat fight!
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:40:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2002 3:41:41 AM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: They have stated that they do have an alarm system, but they only turn it on when they are away. They said that the children would trip the motion sensors during the night. Now, why they couldn't disable the motion sensors so that they could arm the alarm when they were home, I don't know.
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Exactly.
Also, I've heard that they shared a bedroom, but I haven't heard that they were sleeping in the same bed. It doesn't seem that unusual to me that they were in the same room. It could have been a very large bedroom and the two sisters might have enjoyed being together in the same room.
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I heard CNN and Foxnews both say they were sleeping in the same bed, but the facts in the case have been a little blurry in the media. That's why I posted this. I'm a news junky, but I know that I miss some things and others are just inaccuracies in the press. Still, have you ever seen two girls with such spread out ages who enjoyed sharing a room? I personally haven't.
However, I do agree with you that it seems very mysterious and that nothing seems to be comming from the investigation. I'm afraid that they girl has probably been dead for some time now.
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Sadly, I agree. The only question is who did it and will they be caught? Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:42:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Minman72: Sisters ENJOYING being together in the same room? I guess you don't have sisters or you've never witnessed sisters in a cat fight!
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Actually, I've got three sisters and they all get along great. I guess that's why it doesn't seem so odd to me.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 6:56:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Ok, this Elizabeth Smart kidnapping bothers me in a lot of ways. I just find some things about it to be very odd, but I'm not sure if I may have missed something. 1. Elizabeth Smart lived with her parents and younger sister in what appears to be a large home in an "exclusive, upscale neighborhood" with home prices in the $350-550k price range. snip ...
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The house is reported as for sale at 1.1 million+.
Eric The(WeShallSee,WeShallSurelySee)Hun: There's a lot that puzzles me about the whole case, as well. I don't know these parents at all, but the word 'distressed' does not appear to be in their vocabulary. Maybe they are just stoic folks, or something. Eric The(WeShallSee,WeShallSurelySee)Hun
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I agree. Pert and gigling female teenage cousins on national news was a bad idea. The uncle who sports a goatee is not a good spokesman for the abducted girl and family of Utah Mormons. The family seems to have wised up and got someone else - a lawyer - to speak to the world for them. They need to keep the emphisis on the missing child, IMO. There is a $250,000 reward for the safe return of the girl - evidently this does not require prosecution. This is alot of money and should have turned something up if the young girl is alive, but so far nothing.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:06:53 AM EDT
There are a bunch of other wierd things about this case that probably haven't been reported in the national news. 1) The first thing these people did was contact their church (LDS) ward. Of course since everyone in their ward lives in the same neighborhood, they arrived first and proceeded to trample the crime scene. On a related note, yesterday a 4 year old boy disappeared in the little cottonwood canyon -- what do the parents do? Call their ward -- who all show up and trample around for awhile THEN they call the cops. Currently it appears that he fell in the creek and was washed downstream. 2) How about getting a DOG?? Even a little yapper type dog would have made enough noise to wake up the entire family. 3) The dad remembers that he left the garage door open for about 2 hours the night before BUT he didn't remember this detail until about 10 days after the fact. 4) The aunt blabbed to the press a couple of days ago that the police were "real close" to making an arrest -- the police about had a heart attack right on local TV. I agree with GBT -- this case doesn't add up and something is definitely fishy. - CD
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:07:37 AM EDT
Isn't Utah a very anti-gun state? Pedophiles are probably lining up to get into Utah: They know they won't be shot, AND, the whole state is passive (non-agressive, just leave the burglar/terrorist/kidnapper be and they will leave...). Maybe I am being harsh and heartless, but I think this guy knew he was at little risk... Oh yeah, the home had TWELVE computers!!!
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:33:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:36:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mugzilla: Isn't Utah a very anti-gun state? Pedophiles are probably lining up to get into Utah: They know they won't be shot, AND, the whole state is passive (non-agressive, just leave the burglar/terrorist/kidnapper be and they will leave...).
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SLC might be Anti-gun like any other decent sized city, but I severely doubt that Utah is an Anti-gun state.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:40:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf:
Originally Posted By Mugzilla: Isn't Utah a very anti-gun state? Pedophiles are probably lining up to get into Utah: They know they won't be shot, AND, the whole state is passive (non-agressive, just leave the burglar/terrorist/kidnapper be and they will leave...).
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SLC might be Anti-gun like any other decent sized city, but I severely doubt that Utah is an Anti-gun state.
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Heh, just ask the prarie dogs. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 8:08:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 8:11:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mugzilla: Isn't Utah a very anti-gun state? Pedophiles are probably lining up to get into Utah: They know they won't be shot, AND, the whole state is passive (non-agressive, just leave the burglar/terrorist/kidnapper be and they will leave...). Maybe I am being harsh and heartless, but I think this guy knew he was at little risk... Oh yeah, the home had TWELVE computers!!!
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Utah is one of the most pro-gun states there is.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 8:28:06 AM EDT
Pedophiles are probably lining up to get into Utah: They know they won't be shot, AND, the whole state is passive (non-agressive, just leave the burglar/terrorist/kidnapper be and they will leave...).
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I think you have the Mormons mixed up with the Amish. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 8:28:31 AM EDT
It does seem strange when we hear only what they say in the news. For the most part the family is playing it right. They are allowing the investigation to go on and not reveling what the police have told them. Here are something’s to think about: Everyone in the family has either taken a lie-detector test or offered to do so. They live in a very tight nit community. They actual know their neighbors, unlike me. They live in a million dollar home, that they built. It was an investment and they really don’t have that kind of money. In fact only about half the house even has furniture in it. Almost 0% crime in their neighborhood. They left the garage door open for a few hours. The screen was reported to have been cut from inside. The police have never stated this, only the media. All of these statements have been made on the news over the last few weeks. What do I think? The media wanted to capitalize on the story of adduction. To do this they made even innocent things seem guilty. Has anyone hear ever left their garage door open at night? About forgetting to turn on your home security system or locking all the doors? Someone in the family may have done it. If that case they should be executed. The problem I have is with the media and there coverage. What if they find that it was a random act by a total stranger? Will the media go back and apologize on national TV to family for destroying their family’s reputation? Sorry, I once again rambled Hawaii
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 8:41:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Ok, this Elizabeth Smart kidnapping bothers me in a lot of ways. I just find some things about it to be very odd, but I'm not sure if I may have missed something. 6. Supposedly the little girl was originally told by the abductor to keep quiet. But now they say she was hiding and waited to tell her parents when she thought it was safe. If she was sleeping in the same bed/room as her older sister then how did she get a chance to hide? It doesn't add up to me. Something is fishy about the whole thing. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
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The LEO's managing this case let this erroneous story run for a time. (Probably for good reason.) Anyway: The 9 year old was in the same bed with Elizabeth. The 9 year old pretended to be sleeping. The perp moved Elizabeth from the room and in the process threatened her. (He never spoke to the 9 year old.) The 9 year old got up, after the perp and Elizabeth had left the bedroom, and was on the way to tell her parents. The 9 year old saw the perp still in some part of the house and ran back to bed where she hid for the next couple of hours before again getting up and telling her parents. Interestingly, the LEO's won't say in what part of the house the 9 year old saw the perp the second time.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 8:45:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: There's a lot that puzzles me about the whole case, as well. I don't know these parents at all, but the word 'distressed' does not appear to be in their vocabulary. Maybe they are just stoic folks, or something. Eric The(WeShallSee,WeShallSurelySee)Hun[>]:)]
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HUN, I believe some kindly doctor (or street vendor) must have finally drugged the parents. The father had a break-down the second or third day Elizabeth was missing and had to be hospitalized. ------------------------------------------------ Tom Smart, the brother, bothers me though I can't say exactly why.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:09:32 PM EDT
The LDS are so secretive about goings on of church memebers they make the Roman Catholic church look positively wide door open. Sadly they firmly beleve its their duty to withold information from law enforcement if it will embarrass the congragation.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:22:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:25:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: There's a lot that puzzles me about the whole case, as well. I don't know these parents at all, but the word 'distressed' does not appear to be in their vocabulary. Maybe they are just stoic folks, or something. Eric The(WeShallSee,WeShallSurelySee)Hun[>]:)]
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Uhhh, what news coverage are you watching. When this story broke, the parents were absolutely overwhelmed and very emotional. They have had a few weeks to come to grips with the situation and have stopped sobbing at the press conferences.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:27:23 PM EDT
My advice- Follow the Mormons! Er, ah, I mean follow the MONEY, yeah. No way those Mormons have anything to do with the dissapearance of a just turned nubile girl whom someone around(and maybe higher up) probably wants for a 5th wife. No way they could cover a thing like that up, it's not like they're really hush-hush about this stuff, or own most of Utah or anything. Juggernaut
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:38:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By operatorerror:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: There's a lot that puzzles me about the whole case, as well. I don't know these parents at all, but the word 'distressed' does not appear to be in their vocabulary. Maybe they are just stoic folks, or something. Eric The(WeShallSee,WeShallSurelySee)Hun[>]:)]
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Uhhh, what news coverage are you watching. When this story broke, the parents were absolutely overwhelmed and very emotional. They have had a few weeks to come to grips with the situation and have stopped sobbing at the press conferences.
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Same one evidently that everyone else on this thread was watching, 'cause I saw no outward emotional reactions by anyone! I did hear the father say that he knows that the kidnapper had 'Elizabeth's welfare uppermost in his mind.' I thought that was some sort of psy-ops that the Police would have you use, so that it would work on the kidnapper's conscience or some far-fetched notion such as that! Now I'm not so certain that the father doesn't know who the kidnapper might be! Eric The(Astounded)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:55:40 PM EDT
It's a government conspiracy I tell you. I'm not sure what the goal is yet, but I'll let you know when I figure it out.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:56:10 PM EDT
I'll agree with Hawaii. The media is notorius for reporting what THEY feel is relevant. It has almost nothing to do with what is really going on. I was unfortunate enough to be close to a particular event once that was nationally news worthy and the reporting was probably about 5% of reality. There was a lot of embelishing from the media and interviews with bystanders who basically were making up things that never happened yet "reported" as truths. Take heed to whatever you see on the news. The only people who know what is going on are the people involved. I cannot make assuptions on the family based on the media; that would be unfair to them.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 4:02:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Juggernaut: My advice- Follow the Mormons! Er, ah, I mean follow the MONEY, yeah. No way those Mormons have anything to do with the dissapearance of a just turned nubile girl whom someone around(and maybe higher up) probably wants for a 5th wife. No way they could cover a thing like that up, it's not like they're really hush-hush about this stuff, or own most of Utah or anything. Juggernaut
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Stop smoking weed and you won't be so paranoid. Really, did you think that up on your own? Whatever. As far as the Smart kidnapping case goes, there seems to be a LOT of 'speculative journalism' going on in the national press. I live in SLC and the case seems to be alot like any other kidnapping case (as opposed to a disappearance case) that I have seen, except with more shady leads. Case in point-the heroin addict/drifter that was found under an alias in WV (Bret Michael Edmunds). The authorities seemed to focus all of their energies on him, but it turned up to be a dead end or a tie in to the current suspect-Richard Albert Ricci. Now the local pd & the FBI are focusing on Ricci, a handy man who worked around the Smart house doing odd jobs during 2001. He seems to fit the description fairly well and has a 30 year-long rap sheet for various violent crimes. Mr. Smart has spoken publically that he would not have let Ricci into his home if he had known of his criminal past. However, others who have had Ricci work for them seem to think that he has reformed his life and is a good cititzen of the community. I personally think that the authorities in this case are using disinformation extensively, even today, to help lure out the kidnapper or probable suspects because they are dealing from a position of limited information/leads. As far as everyone passing judgement on what the Smart family did or did not do, I only hope that you think about how you would respond to your 14 year-old daughter being taken from you in the middle of the night. How would you like it if everyone criticized what you did or speculated on your guilt, innocence, or mistakes. The Smart family is human, just like you and I. They did things that leave me shaking my head, but Utah is a low crime, low threat enviroment. People here are very trusting and open. The Smart's neighborhood is a nice one and kidnapping, murder, rape, etc . . . are not common occurences in this community. If you would like to read the local's take on this case you can link to the Desret News (local afternoon newspaper) or the Salt Lake Tribune (local morning newspaper). [url]www.desnews.com[/url] [url]www.sltrib.com[/url]
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 4:36:52 PM EDT
I also found it strange that the two girls shared a room in a six bedroom house until I learned that the Smarts' also have four sons. Maybe the girls were very close even though there was a five year age difference. I think that 'class discrimination' is pretty obvious in the media. But I also think that someone coming into your home and kidnapping your child is a bit more unusual than a kidnapping that occurs in a park or mall. Not that one child is more important than another - either way it is a very tragic circumstance.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 5:05:47 PM EDT
IIRC, the Smart house is currently under renovation and Elizabeth's room was part of the area being modified. She was sharing her little sister's room for the time being. Kharn
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 5:35:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf:
Originally Posted By Mugzilla: Isn't Utah a very anti-gun state? Pedophiles are probably lining up to get into Utah: They know they won't be shot, AND, the whole state is passive (non-agressive, just leave the burglar/terrorist/kidnapper be and they will leave...).
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SLC might be Anti-gun like any other decent sized city, but I severely doubt that Utah is an Anti-gun state.
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Utah is extremely pro-gun. All my wives have their CCW permits and know how to use my "weapon" when the time comes [}:D]
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 6:11:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kharn: IIRC, the Smart house is currently under renovation and Elizabeth's room was part of the area being modified. She was sharing her little sister's room for the time being. Kharn
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That makes sense then, and I was not aware of that piece of information. As far as someone posting that sometimes people make mistakes, I'd like to point out that checking all the doors in the house before I go to bed is the last thing I do every night before we go to sleep. I have never failed to do it in the 5 years I've been married, and well before then. I don't leave the garage door open if I'm not out there working on something because I have too much stuff that could be stolen. The safety and well being of a man's family is his primary responsibility. I also do not envy this man's situation at all, and wouldn't ever want to be in his shoes. I actually don't suspect the parents themselves, but there is something very odd about this whole case. As I stated in my first post, it could be inaccuracies in the media, things I've personally missed, or disinformation as someone pointed out. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 6:25:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige: I dont mean to be harsh here, but Why is the media putting so much emphasis on this ONE case. Here in CA (San Diego I believe) there was a little black boy that disappeared from a park about a month or two ago. How come we dont hear about that case anymore? True it is a sad case when ANY child is M.I.A however, when it is played out like the JonBenet Ramsey saga. gives you the sense of discrimination. "Class-Discrimination" And as far as the Aunt, Uncles, nieces talking to the media I feel that it is the investigators fault. If it is POLICY to give all family members a lie detector test, It should be policy that they stuff a rag in everyones mouth and have ONE spokesperson from the Police Dept. Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now. [soapbox]
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The media especially television is very visually oriented. They like photos and videos of the kids to show on television. This is what gets peoples attentions. The odds that a poor black family would have lots of photos and video tapes of their kids is doubtful. I would imagine you would'nt see a lot of press if it was a poor white kid from Alabama either. Thats my best guess.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 6:25:58 PM EDT
Like many of you, I watch mostly FOX News but I've got to say MSNBC - Ashley Banfield (sp?) has the best handle on this story.
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