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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 6/24/2002 1:32:35 PM EDT
A young friend of mine who has more time to spend on gunboards than I do has told me that many people are getting of of the boards because of the possible surveillance by the feds. Have any of you heard that? I guess I missed it if it has already been discussed. But I don't think the FBI/CIA/NSA, etc. will find a more pro-American bunch of patriots than they will at www.ar15.com. This is a crowd of people who would pay money to blast the hell out of Usama and his lackies. Would be interested in hearing your comments. As for me, I don't participate in many of these boards, but I have no plans to leave AR15.com because of such circumstances.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 2:17:02 PM EDT
I'm sure AR15.com probably is monitored by various agencies, as are many gun boards. I agree that most of us are like-minded, pro-American gun owners and simply like our black rifles. The problem is when you have some of our famous anti-cop/anti-authority trolls who advocate shooting federal agents/police officers because they want to take away your illegal M16(BOG/6shooter). I don't worry about who monitors the site and reads posts. All of my equipment is 100% legal, so why would I have anything to worry about?
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 2:52:20 PM EDT
I don't worry about who monitors the site and reads posts. All of my equipment is 100% legal, so why would I have anything to worry about? I don't carry any weapons onto aircraft or look foriegn - Should I mind being searched? I don't rob stores or people - should I mind having my gun puchases listed in a government file? I don't buy anything illegal with my credit cards - Why should I care if some computer is formatting my buying habits? It's a privacy issue. I equate it with people looking into my windows. Another step to a world where your every thought and action are monitored. Stepped-init
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 3:06:56 PM EDT
I have to disagree Stepped-init, having the feds or anyone else looking through internet sites available to the public isn't like being searched or having someone compile information on you.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 3:37:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 3:44:37 PM EDT
Its a conspiracy. Everyone here is a fed except you.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 3:48:01 PM EDT
Let's see, the Feds have my photos and prints from (1)FFL License #1, (2)FFL License #2, (3)Concealed Hangun License from Texas. In addition, they probably have about 100 Form 4473s from the past ten years, due to the fact that two of my favorite dealers went out os business and sent in their Form 4473s to Arlington, Virginia. If the Feds want me, they know precisely what I look like and where to come to fetch me. So these 'gun' boards scare me not a whit! Eric The(WellKnown)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 3:53:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARnSC: But I don't think the FBI/CIA/NSA, etc. will find a more pro-American bunch of patriots than they will at www.ar15.com.
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That would be exactly why they are monitoring this site. It does not pay to be pro patria or of surpassing dedication to the law here in Caligula's Rome. Patriot is a dirty word, hadn't you heard? If you believe in the federal government no matter what, you are a trusted citizen, and you won't mind taking off your shoes at the airport, for your own personal safety... If, however, you have a mind that is not right, one that is of independent thought and thinks the constitution is a mighty fine rulebook and worth following and enforcing, then you sir, are the most dangerous type of treasonous trash, and must be dealt with. Keep that in mind. The Arabs were first, you are next. Ain't it funny how all those bizarre tinfoil hat predictions we were scoffing at ten years ago are slowly coming true?
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 4:19:31 PM EDT
I view this all in a larger sense than just an instance here and there of privacy invasion. I look at it in the sense of that great quote from the past. "Those who are willing to sacrifice their liberties for security deserve neither". Stepped-init
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 4:28:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Glock31: I don't worry about who monitors the site and reads posts. All of my equipment is 100% legal, so why would I have anything to worry about?
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1. SPLC/ADL 2. Confidential Informants (i.e. those who "cut a deal" with the feds) 3. Agent Provocateurs
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 6:32:23 AM EDT
Thanks for the great comments. I too would agree that if the feds want me, they know who I am and where I live. But like most everyone on E15.com, my guns are 100% legal. I guess what I was saying was that I can't envision terrorists using AR15.com... that's what I meant by "patriotism." What could a terrorist learn here that he couldn't learn in a gazillion other places on the Internet and the library? Yep, they know who I am, where I live, what guns I own, etc. Why should I worry now? Thanks for the comments. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 6:37:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 6:46:33 AM EDT
I'm sure we get trolled by members of certain federal agencies (remember, they are here to help us!). But, keep it legal and their efforts will be for naught. I'm always suspicious of a post from someone who is proposing, or asking advice, on some kind of illegal conversion, or mating a pre-ban upper with a post ban lower. Simple rule = don't feed the trolls. This is a public forum and some snooping by the "G" is to be expected. Remember, just keep it legal.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 6:49:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Glock31: The problem is when you have some of our famous anti-cop/anti-authority trolls who advocate shooting federal agents/police officers because they want to take away your illegal M16(BOG/6shooter).
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Hmmm... well, I haven't been on AR15.com that long, Glock31, but I haven't seen any of that anti-cop and anti-authority stuff. I am not saying that it isn't here, but I guess I have been lucky enough to avoid such people. Are those AR15.com usernames that you mentioned? Yeah, I would agree totally. We are pro-Americans who like our black rifles. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks Glock31.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:04:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2002 7:05:00 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Originally Posted By Glock31: The problem is when you have some of our famous anti-cop/anti-authority trolls who advocate shooting federal agents/police officers because they want to take away your illegal M16(BOG/6shooter).
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Well, according to the Constitution, that M16 shouldn't be illegal anyway. Even US -vs- Miller recognized our right to own military weaponry. Just remember, your "100% legally configured guns" (can you be [i]POSITIVE[/i] of that?) of today could be made illegal with the stroke of a pen. What will you do then?
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:10:50 AM EDT
[b]ARnSC[/b], BOG is a reference to Blaze of Glory, the famous troll who has an imaginary M16 and wants to shoot anyone who tries to come and get it. Dont worry, he's always back with a new name about once a month. Blaze/6shooter/Ronald-something are the only ones i'm aware of.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:21:56 AM EDT
[b]Fight4YourRights[/b] Well, like everyone else here, I would fight the new bill until it became law, then fight it some more. But, if its a law which i've knowingly broken, and federal agents come to my house to take the rifle in question, i'm most certainly NOT going to kill them over it. [flame] flame away
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:25:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:28:23 AM EDT
*waves to the gummint agent reading this thread*
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 7:36:17 AM EDT
I don't mind taking my shoes of at the airport. What I will not do is let them do the full body x-ray as shown in some news articles. I do not like the long wait in the lines. And most of all I do not like the fact that I can go to jail or have to spend money on lawyers because I broke a law that I could not have possibly known about. We as citizens do not have access to the mountains of rules, regulations and laws that have been written. I think that the founding fathers designed the constitution to prevent this problem.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 9:20:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Glock31: [b]Fight4YourRights[/b] Well, like everyone else here, I would fight the new bill until it became law, then fight it some more. But, if its a law which i've knowingly broken, and federal agents come to my house to take the rifle in question, i'm most certainly NOT going to kill them over it. [flame] flame away
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Good sheep! Baaaa! Baaaa!
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 10:02:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Glock31: [b]Fight4YourRights[/b] Well, like everyone else here, I would fight the new bill until it became law, then fight it some more. But, if its a law which i've knowingly broken, and federal agents come to my house to take the rifle in question, i'm most certainly NOT going to kill them over it. [flame] flame away
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I think we agree on the basics here. While I'm tempted to say [i]"screw it"[/i] to the tens of thousands of stupid gun laws, I don't. I do my absolute best to comply with them. [i](I say my best, because I've even caught my LEO brother-in-law breaking laws he didn't know about)[/i] However, since I did obey all their stupid laws to buy my stuff, I WILL NOT surrender anything they deem illegal after the fact. I won't obey Ex-Post-Facto laws. They aren't legal and they aren't morally right. If I bought something legally and followed the rules, they can't steal it away from me after the fact. That's my line in the sand.
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 10:55:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 11:06:16 AM EDT
I'd be willing to bet that 99.99% of us on AR15.com have, and continue to, obey the gazillions of gun laws on the books. And you guys are right... I saved a friend (who should have known much better than I did) from breaking one biggie... he was going to put a *real* collapsable stock on a post ban Bushmaster! Egads!!! And he didn't believe me when I told him that the powers that be had deemed that we ordinary peons could only have a certain number of "evil" features on on post-ban guns. Of course I was right, and he agreed after he checked it out. But this is the sort of quagmire that has resulted from all the ridiculous laws. I had to call the BATF once (I forget what the question was) to ask a question. Two of the agents that I spoke with had two entirely different opinions. Finally one of the other guys looked it up in a book and read me the actual law. They were very nice and helpful, but my point is that if the BATF has to look it up, isn't it just a matter of time until we are all locked up because we didn't have a copy of that book? And one of you guys mentioned an LEO. Now I know some great LEO's, some of which are members of AR15.com. But I know they can't possibly know all the laws if the BATF has to look it up! And I know one LEO that thinks Waco was "just a media thing" (his words). Sad state of afairs. [>(]
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 11:36:50 AM EDT
Some agent right now could be getting PAID for cruising AR15.com. I bet they get a bonus for becoming a moderator:)
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 12:31:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARnSC: This is a crowd of people who would pay money to blast the hell out of Usama and his lackies.
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And of course there are some people willing to pay for the same privleadge with Diane Fienswine, Barbara Boxer, Shumer, etc..
All of my equipment is 100% legal, so why would I have anything to worry about
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People being naive is their most powerful weapon. Anyway, I gotta load some more ammo.... Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 1:01:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:10:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: So would you care to share your plans on fighting a raid/siege by the FBI/ATF? How many officers could you kill before you were arrested or killed yourself? Have you figured out a watch rotation that allows all your family memebers to sleep? Just wondering.
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I realize you are being facetious Paul, but I will answer you in honesty. I have thought somewhat about this. In Yugoslavia rebels could escape to Montenegro and other nearby states. In the first and second American wars of independence, rebels could head west or go to Canada or Mexico. If they come to my home I should expect to be killed in the first fight because like all fascists, notably the einsatzgruppen, the BATF, and CAGE, they are cowards and come only in overwhelming force. If I survive the initial fight and make it out, I will have the Eric Rudolph option of either disappearing totally or disappearing and resurfacing only when I kill government agents. Continuing the fight would necessitate brigandage on my part. My last option is to haul myself to Mexico or somehow get another ID and live in Alaska or Canada in the Pacific northwest for obvious reasons. I would take great pains to get my family out of harm's way. Their being harmed would crush me. Sleep would really be unnecessary for the first 72 hours. The fedcoats would supply me with adrenalin to keep me awake. If these scumbags ignore their oaths and attempt to pervert or subvert the US constitution, I will have as much conscience about killing them as they have displayed in the past about asassinating innocents. I wish this was just a romantic fantasy about evil government agents coming to me with the intent to do harm so that I might nobly slay them or die trying, but it seems as time goes on it becomes less fantasy and more probable. It saddens me that this is the case. Does that answer your question? ...for the ashes of my fathers and the temples of my gods...
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 3:36:26 PM EDT
I think the feds ya'll are so worried about are in fact quite thrilled that these gun boards exist becuase they are a HUGE time-waster and life-sucker. Kinda like professional sports. [;D] I'm sure they worry very little about geeks-with-guns spending all their free time chatting away on the internet- at least I wouldn't if I was them. I'd worry more about nuts in compounds in Northern Idaho making pipe-bombs and practicing armored-car take-over techniques... Who's got time to actually DO anything about the big bad gov.org conspiracy? That would require *a life*. [}:D]
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