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Posted: 6/24/2002 8:20:31 AM EDT
that Clinton killed his son in Somalia? I watched "Black Hawk Down" this weekend and I vaguely remembered this subject being discussed in this forum.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:25:28 AM EDT
Believe that was father of one of the Delta guys that won the CMH. Mike
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:34:28 AM EDT
Yes. Shughart's dad, IIRC.... Scott
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:46:20 AM EDT
Ok, consider me ignorant, but why did he say Clinton killed his son? Nineteen soldiers died in action. I thought the raid was a success despite the fact that those soldiers died. They just had some bad luck i.e. Blackburn falling & some lucky RPG shots that took down the Blackhawks. Heck, the movie said that over a thousand Somali's died and the Delta team and Rangers secured their objectives which was to arrest the LT's of the warlord.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:54:03 AM EDT
OK everyone, I'll say it. John you are telling the truth, you are showing your ignorance.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:57:27 AM EDT
It was not an Operators dad, it was Ranger James Smith's father... [/URL] http://www.nightstalkers.com/tfranger/memorial/smith/default.html [/URL]
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:58:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2002 9:00:31 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
Ok, consider me ignorant, but why did he say Clinton killed his son? Nineteen soldiers died in action. I thought the raid was a success despite the fact that those soldiers died. They just had some bad luck i.e. Blackburn falling & some lucky RPG shots that took down the Blackhawks. Heck, the movie said that over a thousand Somali's died and the Delta team and Rangers secured their objectives which was to arrest the LT's of the warlord.
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Because clinton did not give them the tools to do the job... There where no heavies (read tanks) there were no Apache's. Because Clinton... fVckit I am tired of talking about it.... Its sickening.. [puke] Suffice it to say that Clinton , nor any democrat I have ever seen know anything about Being Commander in Chief, leading troops, or the real world we live in...[puke] ITs all fantasy to them... [puke] they are fools[puke] and they end up Hurting AMERICA!!![puke][puke] The mission was FUBAR!! The mission was not a success, it was supposed to last 30 minutes. Everything went to shit..Even though we killed more of them then they killed of us it was a success in that not more men were killed (our guys that is).. But it shouldn't have gotten that far out of control to begin with...
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:58:39 AM EDT
At the funeral ceremony for the Rangers at the White House, two of the grieving fathers gave Clinton a piece of their minds. One, LTC (Ret) Larry Joyce, whose son SSGT Casey Joyce was killed in Mog, really blasted the coward president when they met at the ceremony. Clinton was reportedly stunned to be spoken to like that...and I'm sure at that moment, the secret service guys antennae were madly vibrating. Imagine...this guy wasn't following the script! Normally, Clinton's public appearance audiences were carefully picked. Not in this case and it backfired on him. I cannot remember the name of the other upset father. I think Mark Bowden names them in his book. How stange and unfair life can sometimes be: A fine young man like SSGT Joyce gets killed in combat and a rat bastard [slick] operator like Clinton dodges all the charges leveled against him. [:(!] Colonel Joyce died of leukemia in 1999. He is buried with his son at Arlington.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:01:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2002 9:04:27 AM EDT by wiggy762]
Clinton, IMHO, was responsible for the debacle that resulted in 19 American soldiers dying for no good reason. He gave defacto control of the TFR to the UN. The Sec. General of the UN at the time was Butrous Butrous Ghali. His uncle was a high ranking member of a rival clan of Aidid's. TFR was used, with tacit approval from the White House, as police officers attepmting to apprehend Aidid. The apprehension and removal of Aidid would personally benefit the family of the UN Secretary General Ghali. If I had my way, there would be a criminal investigation opened to determine if this was the reason for the death of 19 American soldiers. Shugart's father and any other family members were right, Clinton and Ghali killed their sons, fathers, and husbands.....for no good reason.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:05:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2002 9:06:14 AM EDT by Shamus375PA]
"On Oct 3, 1993 my son (Sgt James C. Joyce) and 17 other brave young soldiers were killed in a raid that was not only sanctioned by the Clinton administration, but was also necessary to fulfill a misguided American policy to capture Somali warlord Farah Aideed. "Two months later to the day, US soldiers were escorting Aideed to the Mogadishu airport by motorcade and flying him to Addis Ababa in a US Army airplane. This contradiction is but one more revelation that puts a spotlight on the amateurs developing foreign policy. Foreign policy blunders are always embarrassing, but when American troops are sent into combat to enforce an ill-conceived, politically motivated order, the results are tragic with consequences that shock the nation. They devastate families, and send presidents, politicians and bureaucrats running for cover. "If capturing Aideed was so important August 23, when the Ranger task force was sent to Mogadishu, why was it so unimportant the day after 18 soldiers were killed and 18 families were left grieving? Now, the same amateurs who orchestrated that fiasco are dishonoring every American soldier who died in Somalia and are insulting every family who lost a loved one there. Every soldier who puts his life on the line or lost a comrade in Somalia must feel violated, too. President Clinton, in an October interview, dismissed those who were killed fighting for his ill-advised policy as "unfortunate losses." On December 6, when asked what he would say to the 18 families about the VIP treatment given to Aideed, the President said he would tell the families that their soldier sons and husbands were over there fighting for peace, and "achieved their objective." Well, Mr. President, when you lose money in the stock market, that's an unfortunate loss. When you cause 18 bright, dedicated and loving young Americans to die trying to implement your frivolous directive, that's a tragedy that demands you take corrective action before you put one more American life on the line. "And, so far as American national interests are concerned, the entire country of Somalia is not worth one American soldier's life. So, this family, for one, doesn't buy your assessment of success. It sounds a lot more like damage control to us. Mr. President, please use Somalia as the catalyst to put the foreign policy and defense sides of your administration in order. Hold those accountable who let down you and the nation. Their arrogance and incompetence cannot be tolerated one more day." My bad, it was not Smith, it was Joyce... http://www.arlingtoncemetery.com/jcjoyce.htm
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:06:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:07:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By P806: OK everyone, I'll say it. John you are telling the truth, you are showing your ignorance.
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That's why I'm asking, ya prick. [stick]
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:16:42 AM EDT
[img]http://www.ifp.uiuc.edu/~dbaron/pics/062001c/6.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.ifp.uiuc.edu/~dbaron/pics/062001d/1.jpg[/img] Because they are so Arrogant they don't realize that they are partaking of something that is larger then themselves... To some of them it is all about "ME".... And it is a shame for the people who have given everything they ever had for America..... Every last drop of their life....
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:27:56 AM EDT
We are the unwilling Led by the unqualified To do the unnecessary For the ungratful
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:30:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2002 9:33:28 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
The paths that the post war Generation's politicians have been walking on have been Paved in American Blood... And they have the gall to utter one syllable against any American Soldier , against God Fearing, God Loving, hopeful, Parents who beam with pride at their children and are looked down upon by the likes of Hillary Clinton... These parents know something of honor and integrity and most of the politicians who are in office today sacrifice America every day for their careers. And yet we turn around and there are our boys lined up ready to repave the streets of Liberty in Blood again on foreign soil and on American soil..... I think our soldiers deserve better....
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:32:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:55:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: The paths that the post war Generation's politicians have been walking on have been Paved in American Blood... And they have the gall to utter one syllable against any American Soldier , against God Fearing, God Loving, hopeful, Parents who beam with pride at their children and are looked down upon by the likes of Hillary Clinton... These parents know something of honor and integrity and most of the politicians who are in office today sacrifice America every day for their careers. And yet we turn around and there are our boys lined up ready to repave the streets of Liberty in Blood again on foreign soil and on American soil..... I think our soldiers deserve better....
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Wow, man that is about as strong and intelligent a statement as i have ever seen on this or any other website. You really hit the nail on the head.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 10:14:02 AM EDT
Thank you Benjamin0001! Three generations of solders represented here, from the bottom of our hearts we thank you! I am a 36 year veteran here, with 3 National Defense Metals, recently returned from Southwest Asia and about to go again.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 10:26:10 AM EDT
read this :
by Shamus375PA : President said he would tell the families that their soldier sons and husbands were over there fighting for peace, and "achieved their objective." Well, Mr. President, when you lose money in the stock market, that's an unfortunate loss. When you cause 18 bright, dedicated and loving young Americans to die trying to implement your frivolous directive, that's a tragedy that demands you take corrective action before you put one more American life on the line.
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then this made sense : [url]http://www.nightstalkers.com/tfranger/poems/ul.html[/url]
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 10:38:23 AM EDT
From the book Black Hawk Down by Mark Bowden - from page 335 3rd paragraph from the top: "..Many of the men who fought in Mogadishu believe that at least some, if not all of their friends would have survived the mission if the Clinton Administration had been more concerned about force protection than maintaining the correct posture." from page 343 1st paragraph from the top: ..At the Medal of Honor ceremony for the two Delta soldiers, I read that the father of posthumus honoree Sargent Randy Shugart insulted the president, telling him he was not fit to be president."
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 10:47:40 AM EDT
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