Posted: 12/19/2011 9:45:55 AM EDT
Here we go:
UK Refusing To Help With EU Bailout Fund Britain is refusing to contribute to the IMF's bailout fund for the EU Chancellor George Osborne has apparently told his EU colleagues he will not provide any cash to boost the fund, which is specifically aimed at the troubled eurozone. During a conference call with 26 other EU finance ministers, Mr Osborne made clear that whilst the UK is prepared to take part in global efforts to increase the IMF's resources, it would not participate in any fund specifically intended for a euro bailout. "We were clear that we would not be making a contribution," a Treasury source said. Another said there was "no agreement" on the proposed 200bn euro fund. ................................... The decision comes after Prime Minister David Cameron used the UK's veto to avoid signing up to a new European economic treaty earlier this month. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/uk-refusing-help-eu-bailout-fund-171335359.html How long before the Frogs start having a bitch? |
You know damn well we're gonna be the back stop for this.
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[snip] How long before the Frogs start having a bitch? Who cares? Cameron's balls have dropped because he knows the Euro is dead (as does anyone with half a brain). Any money the UK puts out there is simply furthering the unsustainable––it's a waste. Europe can only be helped once they realize the EU is over and start reforming their individual and political balkanized nations. Until then, the root problem will continue to exist. |
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[snip] How long before the Frogs start having a bitch? Who cares? Cameron's balls have dropped because he knows the Euro is dead (as does anyone with half a brain). Any money the UK puts out there is simply furthering the unsustainable––it's a waste. Europe can only be helped once they realize the EU is over and start reforming their individual and political balkanized nations. Until then, the root problem will continue to exist. Cameron has always said what he'd do and he's stuck to his guns so far. I don't see it going the way of Balkanisation either to be honest. However I do think the Euro is on life support and not looking good. I don't see the German's bailing either - they are in too deep and the French would have a hissy fit if they contemplated the pull out. The Sarkozy frog is already blaming the UK for the coming shitstorm. I'm just waiting for him to come apart and say what he really thinks now that the Eurozone is going to have to sort itself out. That's the problem with socialism, it always runs out of other people's money to spend and then sulks like a bitch when the experiment fails. On another intersting note - this emerged recently: A financial Dunkirk: Britain draws up plans to rescue expats if Spain and Portugal are hit by financial oblivion |
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The IMF is ultimately backstopped by the US, and large numbers of our Congressional (supposed) representatives have some kind of stake in trying to "rescue" Europe... how many of them are on the boards of, or shareholders in, banks and other companies with huge exposures to European debt? How many have an ideological stake?
The Eurozone is going to become a black hole for money, swallowing every dollar that comes within range of it's grasp without a trace. |
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So basically, they feel that they have earned their wealth and are not interested in throwing it blindly into a bottomless pit...I see there are some rational, fiscal conservatives in Europe still.
Say what you will about Britain.....they had an industrialized economy and enjoyed wealth when the U.S. was wooded forests and deer paths through the thicket. They were also wise enough to remain on the Pound and not buy into the whole 'Euro' thing...we are seeing how that all worked out now. I recall friends looking to invest USD in the Euro when it was created....they actually believed that it would replace the pound, and take its place as the central monetary medium of exchange on Earth...felt that it was a sure bet to invest USD at 1 : 1.5 loss just to get their hands on euros. Guess the whole 'shared accountability' thing only really works out if everyone is capable of pulling their own weight. Seems like the chain had a bunch of weak links in it. |
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Here we go:
UK Refusing To Help With EU Bailout Fund Britain is refusing to contribute to the IMF's bailout fund for the EU Chancellor George Osborne has apparently told his EU colleagues he will not provide any cash to boost the fund, which is specifically aimed at the troubled eurozone. During a conference call with 26 other EU finance ministers, Mr Osborne made clear that whilst the UK is prepared to take part in global efforts to increase the IMF's resources, it would not participate in any fund specifically intended for a euro bailout. "We were clear that we would not be making a contribution," a Treasury source said. Another said there was "no agreement" on the proposed 200bn euro fund. ................................... The decision comes after Prime Minister David Cameron used the UK's veto to avoid signing up to a new European economic treaty earlier this month. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/uk-refusing-help-eu-bailout-fund-171335359.html How long before the Frogs start having a bitch? The frogs always have a bitch. The UK shouldn't help bail out Europe. If they do, it will just encourage more of the same behavior. In a few years time, the rest of Europe will come back with its hand out to the UK asking for more. |
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"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]." As true as ever... Quoted:
So basically, they feel that they have earned their wealth and are not interested in throwing it blindly into a bottomless pit...I see there are some rational, fiscal conservatives in Europe still. x2 What a concept huh? Guess the whole 'shared accountability' thing only really works out if everyone is capable of pulling their own weight. Seems like the chain had a bunch of weak links in it.
Yeah but good luck explaining that to Brussels or EU fanboys. Especially the part about pulling their own weight...When I see which countries pay how much and who receives how much I honestly feel like 
BTW anyone remember this epic outburst of hubris  : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6646629.stm
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[snip] How long before the Frogs start having a bitch? Who cares? Cameron's balls have dropped because he knows the Euro is dead (as does anyone with half a brain). Any money the UK puts out there is simply furthering the unsustainable––it's a waste. Europe can only be helped once they realize the EU is over and start reforming their individual and political balkanized nations. Until then, the root problem will continue to exist. Cameron has always said what he'd do and he's stuck to his guns so far. I don't see it going the way of Balkanisation either to be honest. However I do think the Euro is on life support and not looking good. I don't see the German's bailing either - they are in too deep and the French would have a hissy fit if they contemplated the pull out. The Sarkozy frog is already blaming the UK for the coming shitstorm. I'm just waiting for him to come apart and say what he really thinks now that the Eurozone is going to have to sort itself out. That's the problem with socialism, it always runs out of other people's money to spend and then sulks like a bitch when the experiment fails. On another intersting note - this emerged recently: A financial Dunkirk: Britain draws up plans to rescue expats if Spain and Portugal are hit by financial oblivion I think what we are seeing now is indeed evidence of balkanization. France/Germany are trying to protect themselves from the left(er) learning governments in Spain, Greece, and Portugal––they aren't rubber stamping loans anymore. UK is pulling back. Everyone is trying to keep their programs going and they are using Keynesian economics to do it which imposes on the other member-states. But these socialist nations are so bankrupt that currency manipulation isn't enough. They need more and will continue to need to more. The only arguments for this can't be rational, because it isn't rational. The arguments we're hearing are "moral." Equality of outcome and the same socialist BS we've been hearing forever. This cannot continue, and quite frankly, I'm surprised in the lack of analysis mentioning this is precisely the kind of economic strife that started two world wars in Europe. |
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[snip] How long before the Frogs start having a bitch? Who cares? Cameron's balls have dropped because he knows the Euro is dead (as does anyone with half a brain). Any money the UK puts out there is simply furthering the unsustainable––it's a waste. Europe can only be helped once they realize the EU is over and start reforming their individual and political balkanized nations. Until then, the root problem will continue to exist. Cameron has always said what he'd do and he's stuck to his guns so far. I don't see it going the way of Balkanisation either to be honest. However I do think the Euro is on life support and not looking good. I don't see the German's bailing either - they are in too deep and the French would have a hissy fit if they contemplated the pull out. The Sarkozy frog is already blaming the UK for the coming shitstorm. I'm just waiting for him to come apart and say what he really thinks now that the Eurozone is going to have to sort itself out. That's the problem with socialism, it always runs out of other people's money to spend and then sulks like a bitch when the experiment fails. On another intersting note - this emerged recently: A financial Dunkirk: Britain draws up plans to rescue expats if Spain and Portugal are hit by financial oblivion I think what we are seeing now is indeed evidence of balkanization. France/Germany are trying to protect themselves from the left(er) learning governments in Spain, Greece, and Portugal––they aren't rubber stamping loans anymore. UK is pulling back. Everyone is trying to keep their programs going and they are using Keynesian economics to do it which imposes on the other member-states. But these socialist nations are so bankrupt that currency manipulation isn't enough. They need more and will continue to need to more. The only arguments for this can't be rational, because it isn't rational. The arguments we're hearing are "moral." Equality of outcome and the same socialist BS we've been hearing forever. This cannot continue, and quite frankly, I'm surprised in the lack of analysis mentioning this is precisely the kind of economic strife that started two world wars in Europe. Very true. However I think your definition of Balkanisation and mine are slightly different in this context though. Europe has never been a homogenous state like the Balkan countries were - despite the best efforts of the Socialists. They are still sovereign nations with distinct identities and while the inevitable collapse of the Euro could see the breaking up of the EU as a political entiity the level of transition to a smaller Eurozone and the Euro of the early 90's would not be a source for war. We will still have trade and other agreements in place so it will not be a case of all being lost by any stretch. While I appreciate your comparison the WWI and WWII scenarios, I believe we face a greater risk of the Eurozone os allowed to continue and the perpetual dicatorshop of EU Council is allowed to prevail. Already Van Rumbuy and Barossa have told Italy to forgo elections and enstate a new Prime Minister to their cause or face economic penalties, same in Greece. I see that element of the Post democratic Socialist Experiment that will ultimately lead to a greater conflict and fragmenting of Europe into large alliances. Interesting times for sure. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: [snip] How long before the Frogs start having a bitch? Who cares? Cameron's balls have dropped because he knows the Euro is dead (as does anyone with half a brain). Any money the UK puts out there is simply furthering the unsustainable––it's a waste. Europe can only be helped once they realize the EU is over and start reforming their individual and political balkanized nations. Until then, the root problem will continue to exist. Cameron has always said what he'd do and he's stuck to his guns so far. I don't see it going the way of Balkanisation either to be honest. However I do think the Euro is on life support and not looking good. I don't see the German's bailing either - they are in too deep and the French would have a hissy fit if they contemplated the pull out. The Sarkozy frog is already blaming the UK for the coming shitstorm. I'm just waiting for him to come apart and say what he really thinks now that the Eurozone is going to have to sort itself out. That's the problem with socialism, it always runs out of other people's money to spend and then sulks like a bitch when the experiment fails. On another intersting note - this emerged recently: A financial Dunkirk: Britain draws up plans to rescue expats if Spain and Portugal are hit by financial oblivion I think what we are seeing now is indeed evidence of balkanization. France/Germany are trying to protect themselves from the left(er) learning governments in Spain, Greece, and Portugal––they aren't rubber stamping loans anymore. UK is pulling back. Everyone is trying to keep their programs going and they are using Keynesian economics to do it which imposes on the other member-states. But these socialist nations are so bankrupt that currency manipulation isn't enough. They need more and will continue to need to more. The only arguments for this can't be rational, because it isn't rational. The arguments we're hearing are "moral." Equality of outcome and the same socialist BS we've been hearing forever. This cannot continue, and quite frankly, I'm surprised in the lack of analysis mentioning this is precisely the kind of economic strife that started two world wars in Europe. It's not really balkanization since these countries have been independent countries throughout this whole process. The EU is not a state in and of itself. Certainly some of these countries have little history as independent nations and were the products of balkanization (often as a consequence of WWI; nationalism influenced the aftermath such as the breaking up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire), but they are independent nations nonetheless. To characterize the collapse of the EU as balkanization is silly; I'll be glad to see the EU end and I do believe its survival is very much in doubt right now. |
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So the UK will contribute money to the IMF general fund just not "specifically" for an EU Bailout. Semantics. Either way the EU will get British money. There is a specific bailout fund for the EU that we have refused to contribute to. Whether that crosses over into the wider fund and we may end up contributing against our will, I don't know, but I believe it is seperate from the usual fund. No doubt Obama will sell the US and Britain down the river to ensure the Socialist wet dream of an Agenda 21 Europe will succeed before ther next election. |
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I just hope the lib dems don't have another hissy fit and end up quitting the coalition possibly resulting in a Lab-Lib coalition government headed by Red Ed. Dead Millipede is the best thing that has happened to the Coalition. He and Ed Balls are the most despised men in British Politics and that's saying something. Personally I don't think the LibDems have the balls to bail. If they did their reputation would be destroyed for ever. |
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[snip] Very true. However I think your definition of Balkanisation and mine are slightly different in this context though. Europe has never been a homogenous state like the Balkan countries were - despite the best efforts of the Socialists. They are still sovereign nations with distinct identities and while the inevitable collapse of the Euro could see the breaking up of the EU as a political entiity the level of transition to a smaller Eurozone and the Euro of the early 90's would not be a source for war. We will still have trade and other agreements in place so it will not be a case of all being lost by any stretch. While I appreciate your comparison the WWI and WWII scenarios, I believe we face a greater risk of the Eurozone os allowed to continue and the perpetual dicatorshop of EU Council is allowed to prevail. Already Van Rumbuy and Barossa have told Italy to forgo elections and enstate a new Prime Minister to their cause or face economic penalties, same in Greece. I see that element of the Post democratic Socialist Experiment that will ultimately lead to a greater conflict and fragmenting of Europe into large alliances. Interesting times for sure. I absolutely agree! The EU has become a boiling frog (no pun intended) situation. And the entire world would do good to take note. While you may not see the balkanization internally on a social level, it's easier to see externally on a political level. We Yanks have started to view Europe as one mind/one voice. And I believe that was the idea all along. Until this recent financial crisis it was difficult to see the differences between nations unless you actually put your boots on the ground and talked to folks. In way they still aren't so different as they all share one short-term goal; keep the show going. I hope this thing ends well, and you are right, the greater risk is in not ending it... |
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Quoted: Quoted: I just hope the lib dems don't have another hissy fit and end up quitting the coalition possibly resulting in a Lab-Lib coalition government headed by Red Ed. Dead Millipede is the best thing that has happened to the Coalition. He and Ed Balls are the most despised men in British Politics and that's saying something. Personally I don't think the LibDems have the balls to bail. If they did their reputation would be destroyed for ever. |
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What's France doing through all of this? Sarkozy is employing all the gracelessness which we have come to associate with him, and has suggested that Cameron had made “unacceptable demands” in the new proposed treaty. If he means by that that Cameron had acted to protect Britain’s core financial services and by extension the British people from a Euro-saving tax 85% of which would have been paid in and by Britain then I suppose that is ‘unacceptable’. Can you imagine a French president agreeing to such a punitive tax on a critical French industry? No frigging way. Can you imagine a French president opening the door to an aggressive set of European regulations that would in time destroy said industry? You only has to look at the ninety-plus cases the French are facing in the European Court of Justice for breaking EU rules to know the answer. There is no such thing as a free tax and the result would have been the British people paying for a currency disaster that French newspaper Le Monde says rightly has nothing to do with the British. Moreover, Britain is already the second biggest net contributor to the EU mainly because of a previous Franco-German power play when they stitched up a deal on the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) that forces the British taxpayer to subsidise French farmers. Sarkozy even had the temerity to suggest that banking deregulation had caused the Euro crisis. This may have something to do with the fact that in January the French will have to honour €52.9 billion in government bonds, a further €35.9 billion in February and by April a further €50 plus billion. Taken together the refusal of ‘Merkozy’ to address Eurozone sovereign debt, Chancellor Merkel’s insistence that the European Central Bank cannot act as the lender of last resort and the failure to address Europe’s appalling growth-strangling over-regulation now dooms the Euro to failure. No amount of effort to shift the blame for failure onto Britain and Cameron will work because time, and not much time, will demonstrate who really is responsible. Of course, the usual suspects came out of the woodwork to attack Cameron. The BBC’s flagship radio news programme ‘Today’ embarked on one of the most politically one-sided set of interviews and commentary’s I have ever heard. Retired diplomats such as Lord Hannay suggested that Britain will now be excluded from ‘process’. Lord Hezeltine even suggested that Europe is in its inevitable way to forming a United States of Europe. Idiots. They miss three simple facts. First, most political moments are indeed ‘process’, but every now and then a ‘moment’ comes along that is strategic. At such moments a stand needs to be taken and this was indeed a strategic moment. Second, a profound ideological split exists between a statist Europe beloved of the French and us more free market Brits who are much more attuned to global realities. To have signed a deal on those terms would have subjected Britain to European statist bullshit effectively ending all hope of the flexible economy Europe (and Britain) needs if it is to properly adapt to this globalized age. Third, and above all, not only the future of the Euro was at stake, but also the future power map of Europe. The choice was between a legitimate Europe made up of democracies and a power Europe led by Germany and France. The deal on offer to the UK was in effect to become a super-Belgium subject to German and French whim. Berlin and Paris have done everything they can over recent years to exclude Britain from their power core and this was to be the final act. Britain will never accept subjugation to their leadership and rightly so. Through the centuries there have been times when Britain has stood alone against the hegemony of one or two powers in Europe. This is another such moment and we British are again having to grow a spine and make a stand. The one inspiring thing that came out of the Brussels summit was to see a British Prime Minister stand on an issue of principle. Now Britain stands clear in opposition to a Europe it does not believe in. That is the best negotiating position we can possibly have. |
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[snip] Very true. However I think your definition of Balkanisation and mine are slightly different in this context though. Europe has never been a homogenous state like the Balkan countries were - despite the best efforts of the Socialists. They are still sovereign nations with distinct identities and while the inevitable collapse of the Euro could see the breaking up of the EU as a political entiity the level of transition to a smaller Eurozone and the Euro of the early 90's would not be a source for war. We will still have trade and other agreements in place so it will not be a case of all being lost by any stretch. While I appreciate your comparison the WWI and WWII scenarios, I believe we face a greater risk of the Eurozone os allowed to continue and the perpetual dicatorshop of EU Council is allowed to prevail. Already Van Rumbuy and Barossa have told Italy to forgo elections and enstate a new Prime Minister to their cause or face economic penalties, same in Greece. I see that element of the Post democratic Socialist Experiment that will ultimately lead to a greater conflict and fragmenting of Europe into large alliances. Interesting times for sure. I absolutely agree! The EU has become a boiling frog (no pun intended) situation. And the entire world would do good to take note. While you may not see the balkanization internally on a social level, it's easier to see externally on a political level. We Yanks have started to view Europe as one mind/one voice. And I believe that was the idea all along. Until this recent financial crisis it was difficult to see the differences between nations unless you actually put your boots on the ground and talked to folks. In way they still aren't so different as they all share one short-term goal; keep the show going. I hope this thing ends well, and you are right, the greater risk is in not ending it... Ah right....now I understand your perspective. No, we are very different. Britain has always been o the finges as have other nations. The Socialists have tried to create a situation where everybody was in the club, even allowing countries who were clearly unsuitable to join the EU and bid for the Euro as a currency. the aim was to draw in people thinking that they were missing out on the party. Several countries have stood firm on this however and as a result the One Europe/One Voice has never come to fruition. IN fact the level f infighting and back-biting that foes on would never see it come to fruition. The French being the key sulkers. |
| The other side of the coin - which the arfcom euroexperts categorically overlook - is the fact that there remains an enormous amount of political will to keep the EMU together. In fact, the Euro crisis has served as a kind of a Trojan horse for increased political-bureaucratic consolidation and centralized decision-making inside not only the EMU but the entire EU. The latest indication of this trend is the Franco-German push towards majority decisions in the EMU to replace the traditional practice of unanimity. It is likely that once these political principles have taken hold within the Eurozone, they will then be applied to non-EMU members (UK, Sweden, Denmark, etc) as well. |