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Posted: 3/31/2001 7:47:32 PM EDT
I am a shooter. I buy guns to shoot. I so wich the yuppies would find something else to collect. They are driving so many prices through the roof. Every time I hear, buy this because it will hold its value, but don't shoot it. Let the people who appreciate them buy the historical firearms, and not the ones looking for a good investment. [sniper]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 7:56:19 PM EDT
Ditto that! I can't tell you how ticked it makes me to find a guy with pristine HK's of all kinds in the safe, doesn't know how to shoot, and won't shoot 'em. just an invstement, and will turn every single bit of that multi thousand dollar hoard over to the JBT's when they want 'em, ironically also with HK's. Can I afford a 91 or a 94? nope. Most of the people who got 'em don't shoot 'em, which mean I can't even find one. Boohoo, supply and demand, rising in value and all of that, I just wish enthusiasts had 'em so they'd be enjoyed.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 9:21:29 PM EDT
I am a collector of sorts, but I shoot everything. The ones that burn me are the pre '64 Winchester freaks. I was selling an old Savage 1920 in 250 savage once through the paper, and hte guy on the phone asked me for a description of its condition. The SOB had the balls to say something like, "You described it as a 70% gun and you priced it as a 90% gun. ARE YOU TRYING TO RIP ME OFF? (EMPHASIS ADDED)." I told him that the blue book doesn't buy guns. He cut me short saying that he buys and sells guns costing thousands of dollars. I in turn cut him short and said, "your a Winchester collector." He said Yes, end of conversation. I hate the whole damned company in whatever form due to this clique of A****'s.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 9:37:20 PM EDT
Just so you know, I shoot the shit out of mine.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 9:38:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 9:59:15 PM EDT
dk's got a good point.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 11:11:11 PM EDT
People who think the HK91 recoils that harshly are, to put it bluntly, being wussies. I have owned a 91 for 7 years, traded into one when they were still under $1500. I have put well over ten thousand rounds through that rifle and the recoil is simply NOT that bad. Yes, it recoils more than the FAL, but hardly to the point where it's painful or uncontrollable in semiauto fire. You want bad recoil, try a wood-stocked .35 Whelan or an unported .45/70.
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 1:53:04 AM EDT
I love to shoot all of mine! [:D]
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 2:16:22 AM EDT
i beleive yuppies screw up MOST things, but i dont blame a guy who likes to collect rifles, and doesnt like to shoot some that he cant replace or it would lose collector value to each there own
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 7:06:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 7:17:07 AM EDT
Let’s put the blame where it really lies, politicians, leftist liberals and sick f*cks shooting up school yards with Ak’s. Which in turn brings gun bans. Supply dries up, price goes up. In this case collectors don’t drive the price up, it’s government intervention. So if you want to complain about the price of Hk91 write you Senator and Congressmen/women.
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 7:27:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2001 7:27:30 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 7:31:55 AM EDT
You hate collectors? Collectors pay only what the market demands; marginally over the utility of the gun. If the gun wasn't worth that much, nobody would pay that much for it. After all, why do you want it? Are you complaining because you can't afford to pay for what you want? Please take a number and stand in line. We're all bitching about that. Collectors, among other things, are like speculators. Speculators maintain supply. They buy and sell at the market prices. If you don't like the fact that you have to buy from a speculator, how about doing some speculating yourself? Go buy a rifle that you think somebody else will want later. Are you going to be a nice guy and sell it at below market price whenever you do sell it, or do want a little something for hanging on to it?
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 8:23:30 AM EDT
Why does a dog lick his dic'k'? Because he CAN...
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 8:55:55 AM EDT
Being a collector isn't bad. Collectors are needed to preserve original examples of firearms. I am guilty myself of collecting military Mauser rifles. I have a handful of them in close to pristine condition. I do not fire them often, maybe twice a year. I have found that so many Mausers have been modified into fine sporters (some not so fine), a good example of an original Mauser is hard to find. Most of my collection consists of WWII bring backs and do not own many of the newly imported ones. Maybe I did drive the price of a Nazi proofed pre-war K98k, by paying $250 for it, but you can get a recently imported similar rifle in good condition for under a $100!! I do rotate my collection, selling one, when a better example comes along. Sometimes I make a few bucks, most of the time I am happy just to break even, and update my collection. I also collect old model Ruger Blackhawk single actions. I do shoot these more than my Mausers. I opted for the Old Models, as they are more likely to hold or increase in value, than their New Model counterparts. Specially if the cost between the Old and New Models is the same. Flame me if you wish, for being a collector. I do not need or seek your approval. OSA
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 9:04:31 AM EDT
yea when i got married my collecting stopped :(, i had to turned down a HK91 the real "German" deal. he wanted only $2200.00 this was last year, and it was at least 98% condition. ive looked at it persoanly, i was upset i could not buy it; family come's first. I had to say bye to an HK91, SteyAug, Polytec (Milled)AK47. MG42, M14(Harrington&Richerdson) Full auto rifle, a real nice browning bar, a (live)Rpg7, HKMP5, HKMP5k, HKMP5SD, Madson, Browning 1919, sterling SMG, varoius Colt Models. oh well never meant to be i guess.
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 9:31:28 AM EDT
Its called Freedom. We should all be for it.
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 12:51:31 PM EDT
damn goverment creating a flase scarcity look at a real Full auto AK in the stes it gonna cost yuou a lot 6 k i belive but you go out of country say to some 3rd world country and there like 20 bucks a pop
Link Posted: 4/1/2001 1:52:37 PM EDT
The ubiquitous "Yuppie Asshole" seems to have shifted focus from Harley Davidson's to firearms. That's interesting. Five or six years ago, you could not buy a new HD off the show room floor. Had to wait up to a year, depending on the model. And pay MSPR Plus. The YA's would have theirs delivered by trailer, and then put it on display in their living rooms. Tragic waste of fine riding iron. So now they're into guns? Well, on the upside, at least they should vote the right way to protect their investments.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 10:58:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof: THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS !!! Just kidding [:D]. My point is just that I get no enjoyment out of a rifle that I have to end up with a big bruise on my face just to shoot it accurately. Maybe it's just an issue of ergonomics, or the fit between the rifle and I. I also had an M1 Garand in the army (long story), and the felt recoil on that was nothing compared to the G3.
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I understand, it sounds more like an issue of stock length. It IS possible to get a buttstock with adjustments that would make the 91 more pleasant for you to shoot, but in this case you are probably better off just getting an M1A or FAL.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 11:07:52 AM EDT
There is a difference between collectors and speculators.....collectors keep the market going, Speculators only want the market to go up in price.....I grew up reading comics, I had to stop because of all of the speculator driven crap that was flooding the market..and come on is a comic really worth 10,000 dollars?
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 11:40:18 AM EDT
Define "Yuppie" please, and while you're at it, please clarify the "yuppie asshole" sub-type. Is it income level, profession, education, social status, wife named Muffy? Wanna guess how many six-figure salary, college degreed, middle-to-upper class guys/gals frequent this board? I don't get who you're bitching about? People who buy guns and don't shoot them, people who have more disposable income, the free market economy, or what? IMO, price is not the same as value- while nobody wants to pay more than they have to, sometimes the up-front costs are more than worth it over the long haul. Quality costs, and once people figure that out, there go prices. That's why I rarely hesitate to buy what I want when I want it... I have yet to really see it go down, at least in guns. computers, on the other hand, depreciate drastically the minute you *think* about buying a new one! [:)]
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 12:08:31 PM EDT
He is bitching about the person who is willing or able to outbid him on a firearm.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 12:14:56 PM EDT
And also, "yuppies" or "city boys" are the first ones to run in and register their guns...and they will be the first ones to turn them over when they are told.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 12:21:04 PM EDT
Come on now. I know some people who buy/sell houses. They have they own house that is all paid for, and they are still in there 30s. Guns are no different, everybody is free to collect/shoot, wouldn't you ask for $4,000+ for a mint HK94 that you originally paid $700 for.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 12:30:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stubbs: And also, "yuppies" or "city boys" are the first ones to run in and register their guns....
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I thought you've already done that when you purchase the gun (that long yellow form that asks for everything but your sperm counts).
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 1:06:08 PM EDT
To me, the person being refered to is the type who buys weapons that he has no real appreciation for. Coincidentally, this same person also just happens to typically be a young, urban, professional type prone to speculation and that often base their sense of self worth and stature on material possesions. Hence, the use of the term "yuppie asshole". I do not believe it to be inappropriate. I don't like the fact that these type of people are really doing nothing more than taking advantage of piss poor gun control legislation for their own image and/or financial gain and in the process denying the weapons to those of us who have a true appreciation for them. And contradicting what others have suggested, I suspect that these types actually like gun control or anything else that artificially drives up the prices of their guns. Notice I said price and not value. You can usually identify these people as the ones who ignorantly claim that their Steyr AUG, SIG 550, or other exotic-and-expensive-only-because-of-the-import-ban weapon really IS worth thousands upon thousands more than an AR15. Poor souls.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 3:28:31 PM EDT
To me, the person being refered to is the type who buys weapons that he has no real appreciation for. Coincidentally, this same person also just happens to typically be a young, urban, professional type prone to speculation and that often base their sense of self worth and stature on material possesions. Hence, the use of the term "yuppie asshole".
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Exactly. Doesn't matter if you have a six or seven figure income, a fleet of mercedes, and a wife named "Muffy". You can still be a serious gun enthusiast, and I have no problem with the extent of your collection. If the gun is just a commodity to you, then the term fits.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 4:03:54 PM EDT
While we're on the subject of annoying people: how about the gun owning "snob" who thinks that only *he* can appreciate all the finer points of any particular weapon, and sits in judgement of others. You'd better have the right attitude and shoot your weapons as often as he thinks is right, or you ain't shit. Oh, and make sure you're wearing the right clothes while you do it, too.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 4:56:09 PM EDT
Well, to be honest, the only real snobs I've run into within the firearms community tend to be same sort of people being discussed in this thread. IE; the guy who insists and probably honestly believes that his AUG is better than an AR15 but is unable provide any tangible facts to support his claim and you eventually get the feeling that he thinks that since he paid at least $2,000 more for his AUG than you did for your AR15, it must be somehow be superior on that simple basis alone. Hence, in my eyes, he has no true appreciation for either weapon and has lost at least a little bit of my respect as a gun enthusiast and shooter. Frankly, I don't really care what kind of you guns you want to buy, how much you pay for them, how often you shoot them, or what kind of clothes you choose to wear. Just don't get snotty at my not being awestruck when one of these types pulls up to range in their new Bimmer wearing Dockers and penny loafers and pulls that way overpriced AUG out of the trunk. Please do not let the satire in that escape you. [:)]
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 5:17:55 PM EDT
My full-time job and part-time job require that I spend a lot of time at the range, my life one day may depend on my shooting skills. So the guns in my safe see a lot of use. Yuppie collectors have never bothered me. If you can afford a gun, and it makes you happy, then why not buy it. I do admit I get frustrated with the prices though, especially the Valmets! The guys who get to me the most are the hunter, and target snobs who see no merit in owning a rifle like an AR 15. And, the other group who piss me off are the so called sniper or wanna be soldiers who are bragging about their 1/2 inch groups, but all they can do is drag their fat ass out of their vehicles, and waddle to the bench at the range. If you talk the talk, then walk the walk. Being a sniper requires some serious physical fitness and fieldcraft, that you can't get while eating a twinky and fire you expensive tactical rifle from a bench rest. Cheers [heavy]
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 7:21:58 PM EDT
I don't like the fact that these type of people are really doing nothing more than taking advantage of piss poor gun control legislation for their own image and/or financial gain and in the process denying the weapons to those of us who have a true appreciation for them.
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Huh? How are they "denying" anything to you? That's like saying people who are buying Mercedes are denying them to me because they're willing to pay $50K (or whatever) and I'm not. The US gov't is denying far more to all of us than any "yuppie" -- whatever the hell that is.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 8:02:35 PM EDT
Ok, good points made. 1)Part of it is jealousy, but most of it is just dissapointment that some people buy guns for investment purposes only. 2)Bans have increased prices, and I admit that fear of new bans often dictate my next purchase. 3) I have also made money from the bans, I picked up pre-ban guns to shoot and was often able to trade them for two post ban weapons. It is like this guy I know who has a '65 Mustang with less than 20K miles on it. It is neat that it is in such nice shape, but you also sense he cares more about owning it than driving it.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 9:59:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:33:49 AM EDT
So, we seem to agree: dickheads are dickheads, whatever car they drive, or guns they own. Too bad about the prices of things, though, as that always seems to happen when something gets popular. Sigh.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 9:10:32 AM EDT
I don't think we can afford to lose any potential support for the RKBA, especially over something as stupid as the firearms equivalent of penis envy. If they want the guns, let them have them, even if they will be the first ones to turn them in (and I'm sure that they will be the only ones to do so right?). Their financial status will help us fght bans like the current ones in Kalifornia, and besides, they don't drive the prices up, the fixed supply does. Are they suddenly the bad guy because they can afford the market price? The only people who get under my skin are the people who think the Second only applies to "hunting" weapons (like I can't hunt with a AR). Kyle
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 9:30:26 AM EDT
I must say that this is one of the lamest topics I've ever seen on here. Now I'll disclose: I guess I am a Yuppy. I live in a city, I'm only 25, I make six figures, I'm a lawyer, and I like to spend my money on guns. Thankfully there's enough guns in this country for anyone willing to save; plenty of people own 10 or more, and they're not rich. I bought 5 or 6 guns when I was waiting tables and working other odd jobs before I started making big money. If you want something enough, in this country, thankfully you only need to save up the money and buy it. You don't need to be anyone's cousin, or the right color, or whatever like the antis would have it. And a final thing, I've been into guns for as long as I've been alive, I'm completely pro Second Amendment, and I love HKs and ARs. When I have enough cash in a few years I'll probably join the Class III community. This class warfare bitching is aiming at the wrong target; it's not yuppy gun owners, but liberals of all stripes, income levels, etc! Don't turn on each other just because they have something that you can't afford due to govt. regulation plus natural market pressures. Jealousy is not, frankly, very becoming. Shoot straigh folks. Hell, my first gun was an SKS and I learned how to shoot it well and loved it b/c it was the only one I had for a while. Maybe you folks bitching about Yuppies can ask for government welfare checks and a govt. give-away program for the poor. Get a life. Everyone else, shoot straight, save your money, and spend it on guns, political action, the Church, and living a good rewarding life. That's the American Dream.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 9:39:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2001 9:40:37 AM EDT by firefight]
Place the blame where it belongs - not with the collectors, but with the politicians like Chuck the Fu** Schumer [rocket] Hell-bound Hillary Klinton [heavy] Fu**ed up Feinstein [rocket] and all the rest of the liberal (socialist) morns
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 9:43:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stubbs: And also, "yuppies" or "city boys" are the first ones to run in and register their guns...and they will be the first ones to turn them over when they are told.
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"City boys"? WTF? You didn't grow up with indoor plumbing? You run into town once a year to pick up vittles and such, then head back out to where a man belongs, in total isolation? City boys? As opposed to whom? The savage and wild beasts inhabiting wild and wooly Maryland? Yeah, I understand that Maryland is the last friggin' frontier, allright. Are you all a bunch of mountain men out there? Y'all ain't got no cites in Maryland?
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 12:00:39 PM EDT
Here is my 2 cents. I think main reason why the prices of guns are so high especially the Military type ones is because of the numerous gun laws and bans being implemented by the anti-gun politicians in office.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 12:05:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cible:
Originally Posted By stubbs: And also, "yuppies" or "city boys" are the first ones to run in and register their guns...and they will be the first ones to turn them over when they are told.
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"City boys"? WTF? You didn't grow up with indoor plumbing? You run into town once a year to pick up vittles and such, then head back out to where a man belongs, in total isolation? City boys? As opposed to whom? The savage and wild beasts inhabiting wild and wooly Maryland? Yeah, I understand that Maryland is the last friggin' frontier, allright. Are you all a bunch of mountain men out there? Y'all ain't got no cites in Maryland?
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ROTFLMFAO.........
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 12:30:32 PM EDT
WHAAA! WHAAAA! SNIFFF! SNIFFF! You all sound like a bunch of b!tches! You cant afford an hk 91 etc., so what. THE YUPPIES AND THE RICH CITY BOYS HAVE THEM ALL AND WONT EVEN SHOOT THEM! so they own em and they can do what they want, I wish a had a hk91 but guess what? I cant afford it so i'll just buy something I can afford ar's glocks, maybe a nice bolt action, but you think (ss109 )posting this crybaby sh!t your going to single handed lower prices or stop some air head from collecting SORRy.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 2:59:25 PM EDT
Muffy? Is that a real name? Hey the rich elite can have all the guns they want! They are the folks the politicians listen to at their Wash. D.C. dinner parties! They're the ones the assure my right (KY hillbilly) to have firearms out here in the woods where I live. The chances of them listening to me are almost nil. TF
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 3:04:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 3:14:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cible:
Originally Posted By stubbs: And also, "yuppies" or "city boys" are the first ones to run in and register their guns...and they will be the first ones to turn them over when they are told.
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"City boys"? WTF? You didn't grow up with indoor plumbing? You run into town once a year to pick up vittles and such, then head back out to where a man belongs, in total isolation? City boys? As opposed to whom? The savage and wild beasts inhabiting wild and wooly Maryland? Yeah, I understand that Maryland is the last friggin' frontier, allright. Are you all a bunch of mountain men out there? Y'all ain't got no cites in Maryland?
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Jesus, Cible. I'm friggin sorry. I didn't know that the term "city boys" was so goddammed offensive. Take a deep breath...then release slowly please. Notice everyone else knew what I meant by the term "city boys"...get familiar with the term; and the type of person I am referring to. And for your information...my part of Maryland could be considered inhabited by "mountain men".
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:35:54 PM EDT
Wiggins wrote: The only people who get under my skin are the people who think the Second only applies to "hunting" weapons (like I can't hunt with a AR).
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But it does apply to "hunting" weapons -- specifically, the kind used to hunt politicians. Or at least that's what this yuppie city boy was taught. [:D]
Link Posted: 4/4/2001 8:32:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stubbs: Jesus, Cible. I'm friggin sorry. I didn't know that the term "city boys" was so goddammed offensive. Take a deep breath...then release slowly please. Notice everyone else knew what I meant by the term "city boys"...get familiar with the term; and the type of person I am referring to. And for your information...my part of Maryland could be considered inhabited by "mountain men".
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Just kidding, Stubbs. It was meant to be funny. I was trying to work in something like "have to be armed to defend against those dangerous blue crabs" or something like that too, but I ran outta time. Gotta go, the lantern's almost out of oil, and I can't type in the dark....
Link Posted: 4/4/2001 9:30:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SS109: Ok, good points made. 1)Part of it is jealousy, but most of it is just dissapointment that some people buy guns for investment purposes only. 2)Bans have increased prices, and I admit that fear of new bans often dictate my next purchase. 3) I have also made money from the bans, I picked up pre-ban guns to shoot and was often able to trade them for two post ban weapons. It is like this guy I know who has a '65 Mustang with less than 20K miles on it. It is neat that it is in such nice shape, but you also sense he cares more about owning it than driving it.
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Man anybody that would rather own a 65 Mustang than drive it is nuts! It just happens to be my favorite(66 also)! The same thing is true of guns...I have some I love but would not just get out there and just shoot boxes of shells thru...And I have some that I grab every time I get ready to go shoot or hunt or whatever and they are just as valuble as the others!! If all the yuppies get out of buying guns then who are we going to sell out HK91's and AUGS and the like? My opinion on the worth or value of a particular gun or car or motorcycle means nothing...It is what somebody else thinks when I get ready to sell it! I don't think the HK's were worth the $500-700 that they were in the 80's. I had an opportunity to buy a 94 then for $500 in 99% condition but I didn't...If I had I would be asking the normal $2000-2500 for it! You would do the same thing! Are they worth that? Lynn [heavy]
Link Posted: 4/4/2001 12:31:34 PM EDT
Just don't know when to quit, huh?
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