[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Advice Needed ATF Problem (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 10/28/2011 7:12:36 AM EDT
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information.
Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? |
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? You are really fucked. Sorry. |
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? You are really fucked. Sorry. Dibs on wife. |
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? When contacted, relay the info in bold, thank them for their time and wish them well. |
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Countries with diplomatic relations but no extradition treaty
The United States maintains diplomatic relations, but does not have extradition treaties with the following countries: Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, China, Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Croatia, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, France, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Macedonia, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & PrÃncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Slovenia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican, Vietnam, and Yemen. |
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This will not end well, unfortunately.
They're going to want as much information as you can give them about the person you sold it to. ETA: You should provide that information through your legal counsel, based on his/her advice. Don't talk to the feds, ever, under any circumstances. |
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? When contacted, relay the info in bold, thank them for their time and wish them well. This. You didn't do anything wrong. |
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? When contacted, relay the info in bold, thank them for their time and wish them well. +1 Perfectly legal, you did nothing wrong. Remember, the person who committed the crime in Mexico is the criminal here. In the future, it might be a good idea if you ask for ID and jot down the name - but then again, this has got to be a one-in-a-million chance. |
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What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? You needed to know who you sold it to and record his information. Now you're going to be left with saying that you sold it to "some guy". What you did was legal, but it was stupid. You're in for some hassle. Being stupid sucks. This is why I never do FTF private sales: you never REALLY know who you're dealing with. |
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Countries with diplomatic relations but no extradition treaty The United States maintains diplomatic relations, but does not have extradition treaties with the following countries: Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, China, Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Croatia, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, France, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Macedonia, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & PrÃncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Slovenia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican, Vietnam, and Yemen. Ctrl+A, Right Click, Save As... Cause you just never know.... |
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Often times, people being questioned by law enforcement unknowingly implicate themselves for crimes they are not guilty of.
As a result of this dialogue that takes place during "questioning", evidence of such guilt is presented to a jury by the prosecution in the form of "these are the defendants own words". Do not speak to anyone with a badge without legal representation, friend. Lawyers are expensive, but not as expensive as losing your life to a fishing expedition by the feds. |
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? When contacted, relay the info in bold, thank them for their time and wish them well. +1 Perfectly legal, you did nothing wrong. Remember, the person who committed the crime in Mexico is the criminal here. In the future, it might be a good idea if you ask for ID and jot down the name - but then again, this has got to be a one-in-a-million chance. We're talking about the ATF here. How does he know what he did isn't a crime, in some obscure USCode? OP would have to talk to Nolo-Contendere or someone else with legal expertise in firearm transactions. By not talking to them, you cannot make your situation worse. But by going with the advice by many in this thread, you may be self-incriminating yourself. Heck, they may be thinking you are part of the trafficking. But I know everyone will disagree with me, stating the standard- he has nothing to hide / did nothing wrong. So I'm checking out. Good luck OP. |
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? When contacted, relay the info in bold, thank them for their time and wish them well. +1 Perfectly legal, you did nothing wrong. Remember, the person who committed the crime in Mexico is the criminal here. In the future, it might be a good idea if you ask for ID and jot down the name - but then again, this has got to be a one-in-a-million chance. Yep. Do your best to describe the individual. |
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Often times, people being questioned by law enforcement unknowingly implicate themselves for crimes they are not guilty of. As a result of this dialogue that takes place during "questioning", evidence of such guilt is presented to a jury by the prosecution in the form of "these are the defendants own words". Do not speak to anyone with a badge without legal representation, friend. Lawyers are expensive, but not as expensive as losing your life to a fishing expedition by the feds. Yep. |
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This will not end well, unfortunately. They're going to want as much information as you can give them about the person you sold it to. ETA: You should provide that information through your legal counsel, based on his/her advice. Don't talk to the feds, ever, under any circumstances. ETA: You did nothing wrong, but you should have legal counsel anyway. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? When contacted, relay the info in bold, thank them for their time and wish them well. +1 Perfectly legal, you did nothing wrong. Remember, the person who committed the crime in Mexico is the criminal here. In the future, it might be a good idea if you ask for ID and jot down the name - but then again, this has got to be a one-in-a-million chance. Yep. Do your best to describe the individual. Dark skinned, dark hair, about 5'8, angular features,+/-mustache?  OP - good luck |
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More to this story and the OP is looking for a way to lie his way out of trouble.
OP...be honest with them and cooperate. They are not looking for you. They are looking for the guy that bought it as he likely bought others and is the facilitator. If you cooperate and they find the other guy, you are off the hook. If not...well...somebody is going to get held accountable and you are currently the last guy in the line. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? When contacted, relay the info in bold, thank them for their time and wish them well. This. You didn't do anything wrong. Yup. Legal burden is on the buyer, not the seller. Unless you knew him to be unable to legally buy the gun, you are not violating the law. Period. |
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Considering the history of the ATF, I would contact a lawyer if I were you. Higly recommended to get a lawyer. Just in your post you have admitted to selling multiply guns, they might consider that "being engaged in business for profit". People talk to much. You should be fine, but get proper legal advice. In before the video link "don't talk to cops". |
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Thanks for the info.
I honestly can't remember what the guy looked like. I sold a few guns during a one month period of time. Same senario, met at Bass Pro parking lot in a lighted area with CCTV coverage, thought that would be a safe way to do the transactions, also I was armed. I never recorded any info on the pruchasers. Can't remember who got that particular rifle. |
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More to this story and the OP is looking for a way to lie his way out of trouble. OP...be honest with them and cooperate. They are not looking for you. They are looking for the guy that bought it as he likely bought others and is the facilitator. If you cooperate and they find the other guy, you are off the hook. If not...well...somebody is going to get held accountable and you are currently the last guy in the line. Did you pull that comment out of your ass? How did you jump to that concusion? |
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In the process of moving out of the house I sold some guns a few months back. One of them was an AR-15 that I bought from another private citizen. I was the second owner. I placed an advertisement on Back Page.com and offered the AR for sale. Met a buyer in a parking lot and sold it for cash. He said it was legal for him to buy a firearm. I did not record any of his information. Now the gun has been used in a crime in Mexico. The ATF has contaced the original owner who just called me and told me what happened. What do need to do or know in this situation before they contact me? When contacted, relay the info in bold, thank them for their time and wish them well. This. You didn't do anything wrong. |
| About eight years ago, the ATF called me about a AK I sold a private sale a year prior to that. Told them the guy showed me his in state DL and I had no reason to believe he was a felon. Also told them that I did not have any of the buyers info recorded. They thanked me for my time and that was the end of it. |
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and people laugh at me when i wont do FTF sales with out reciepts of any that i sell. You just never know. 
As long as you have no indication that the person purchasing isn't prohibited from purchasing/possessing, then there's nothing they can do. The OP (based on his post) did nothing wrong, the ATF is just tracing the firearm. You're not required to have proof that you sold a firearm in a private sale. |