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Posted: 5/27/2002 12:18:51 PM EDT
www.msnbc.com/news/756686.asp?cp1=1 Cardinals safety Pat Tillman, 25, was an unrestricted free agent who spurned a $9 million offer from the Rams. There won?t be any fancy logos on Pat Tillman?s new helmet. The Arizona Cardinals safety made a stunning revelation Thursday ? he is putting his four-year NFL career on hold to join the Army, a move spurred by the military?s age limit on candidates for the elite Rangers program.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 12:38:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 1:00:01 PM EDT
Excellent! This Guy's Got Balls the size of Mustard Jars.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 1:08:59 PM EDT
FUCK YEAH!!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 1:13:26 PM EDT
Been there, [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=119301[/url] But it's worth another trip around the forum. No question, Mr. Tillman's the Man!
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 1:31:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 6:12:13 PM EDT
A friend wrote, " I would definately like to know if he is going to the Ranger Regiment or becoming an officer that will attend Ranger School. There is a very large difference between becoming Ranger Qualified and actually serving at one of the Ranger Battalions." It will be intersting to see. I hope he succeeds.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 6:47:57 PM EDT
All Right! Rangers Lead the Way.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 7:14:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2002 7:21:34 PM EDT by Sukebe]
Anyone remember the soldier in the "Army of one" comercials? Remember that he dropped out of Ranger training? There's more to being a Ranger than athletic ability. Don't get me wrong, I think what Tillman is doing is great but if he's giving up millions of dollars to join the Army... Well, I just have to question his intellect. I mean I really enjoyed my time in the Marine Corps and I carry the "quiet pride" that most former Marines have (Ha, Ha). I must admit however that I would trade the experience for 9 million dollars. I think anyone who has been there would as well. Oh yeah, my point about the "Army of one" guy is that if Tillman doesn't make it(and if I was his Drill Sgt. or Ranger Instructor, I would make his life a living hell) he's going to look like a complete ass.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 8:35:04 PM EDT
Good for him! medcop
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 9:07:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: ... I just have to question his intellect.
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And I yours.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: ...I must admit however that I would trade the experience for 9 million dollars.
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So you became a Marine because it was the merely best deal offered to you?? Yeah, the man did an amazing act of selfless patriotism. But while most applaud him and revere his sense of patriotic sacrifice - YOU denigrate him and question his intellect?!? Does insulting a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than you make you feel better? Are you THAT petty and insecure in your own manhood? Apparently so.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: I think anyone who has been there would as well.
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[:(!] And that's the icing on your petty little "No man's better than me" self-serving post. Mr. Tillman will NEVER look like an ass for sacrificing all for trying to serve his county. But you'll NEVER get the sh!tstain smell from your sorry, pathetic ass.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:07:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By Sukebe: ... I just have to question his intellect.
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And I yours.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: ...I must admit however that I would trade the experience for 9 million dollars.
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So you became a Marine because it was the merely best deal offered to you?? Yeah, the man did an amazing act of selfless patriotism. But while most applaud him and revere his sense of patriotic sacrifice - YOU denigrate him and question his intellect?!? Does insulting a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than you make you feel better? Are you THAT petty and insecure in your own manhood? Apparently so.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: I think anyone who has been there would as well.
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[:(!] And that's the icing on your petty little "No man's better than me" self-serving post. Mr. Tillman will NEVER look like an ass for sacrificing all for trying to serve his county. But you'll NEVER get the sh!tstain smell from your sorry, pathetic ass.
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Just what do you think you're doing smelling my ass?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:26:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2002 5:29:28 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
[b]Sukebe[/b], you just don't get it do you? You're an ass - as in jackass. You see someone sacrificing more than you did for his country and you become petty and jealous so you try to tear him down by insulting him just to make yourself feel better about your own inadequacies. Is that what being a Marine is all about - insulting other soldiers who sacrifice more than you? You're a f@cking loser.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:50:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: [b]Sukebe[/b], you just don't get it do you? You're an ass - as in jackass. You see someone sacrificing more than you did for his country and you become petty and jealous so you try to tear him down by insulting him just to make yourself feel better about your own inadequacies. Is that what being a Marine is all about - insulting other soldiers who sacrifice more than you? You're a f@cking loser.
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You still didn't answer the question. What are you doing smelling my ass? BTW fill me in on all the sacrifices you've made for your country. Tell me about your military service. I admit my price for not joining the Army is $9,000,000.00. My price for giving up the chance to try to be a Ranger is $9,000,000.00. So my ass stinks, so I'm a loser, so I'm inadequate, so I'm an ass, as in jackass. Sue me. BTW, it's easy to pick up on all that other stuff by my posts but as far as I know we have never met. That stinky ass thing was right on the money. Do you have some kind of super powers? Is it a trick? Please,tell me how you do it.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:57:47 AM EDT
Heck, I'll promise not to join the Army, if you give me 8 million! More power to him, I guess. Were he to join the Marines, he wouldn't get the "guarantee", just the chance to be a Marine. Given his high GPA, athleticism, and enthusiasm, I'd say that he'll get what he wants.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 6:18:43 AM EDT
Finally, a pro athlete that kids can and should look up to.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 6:21:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 6:27:40 AM EDT
One would think since he has a college degree that he would go in as an officer. When I was in college, I planned to go into the army rangers right after I graduated. Can't remember the exact process but it was something like: 1.boot camp 2.advanced infrantry training 3.OCS 4.Ranger school Seems like it took a year or more just to get up to speed and rank. That was 25 years ago so I don't know what they do now. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on ones perspective, I blew out my knee my senior year playing football and they wouldn't take me.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 6:28:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: [b]Sukebe[/b], you just don't get it do you? You're an ass - as in jackass. You see someone sacrificing more than you did for his country and you become petty and jealous so you try to tear him down by insulting him just to make yourself feel better about your own inadequacies. Is that what being a Marine is all about - insulting other soldiers who sacrifice more than you? You're a f@cking loser.
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You still didn't answer the question.
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But I asked YOU a question first Sukhead: [b]"Does insulting a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than you make you feel better? "[/b]
Originally Posted By Sukebe: What are you doing smelling my ass?
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You ever smell a skunk a quarter-mile away? Your post stinks THAT bad! Okay, now that I've indulged your adolescent-minded obsession with your own ass, now answer my question I asked you first: [b]"Does insulting a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than you make you feel better? "[/b]
Originally Posted By Sukebe: BTW fill me in on all the sacrifices you've made for your country. Tell me about your military service.
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I never insulted Mr. Tillman for his sacrifice, [b]YOU[/b] did. [b]YOU[/b] are the one comparing your sense (or lack thereof) of duty and sacrifice to his.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: I admit my price for not joining the Army is $9,000,000.00. My price for giving up the chance to try to be a Ranger is $9,000,000.00. So my ass stinks, so I'm a loser, so I'm inadequate, so I'm an ass, as in jackass. Sue me.
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I just thought you would see that you went over the line and offer a sincere apology for insulting another man who's giving up more than you for his country. But that seems beyond you. Last chance: [b]"Does insulting a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than you make you feel better? "[/b]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 8:30:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
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Last chance: [b]"Does insulting a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than you make you feel better? "[/b]
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Thanks for the second chance, I really don't deserve it. You are very generous. So by serving in the Military, one has a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than one who has not? Coming from one who has not(you) to one who has(me) I'll accept your apology. However, I really don't feel the same way. Many people serve their country without ever wearing a uniform of the Armed Forces. Having served a total of 8 years in 2 services I have a good idea of what that service is worth to me and what I would take in exchange for the privilege. Yeah, $9,000,000.00 sounds about right. I haven't insulted Mr. Tillman but somehow you seem to have taken it very personal and I'm having a little fun seeing how pissed off someone can get over B.S. on the internet. Computers truly are a powerful tool. I can effortlessly piss someone off way across the country by saying something trivial. In answer to your question, Mr. Tillman wasn't insulted, you were. So according to your logic since I have served and you haven't, I have not insulted a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than me. How do you like me now?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 8:44:55 AM EDT
Having recently taken the meps physical, I know how uptight the meps docs are about past medical records and injuries - and since hes a 25 yr old college-turned pro football player it amazes me that Tillman didn't have any DQing sports injuries, though for PR purposes the Army would be NUTS not to waiver him in. This is [b]great[/b] PR for the Army, and the Rangers specifically. Usually the Marines have the market cornered in that area. If a pro-football player gives up 9 mil for just a CHANCE to be a Ranger, just think what recruiting effects that will have on 17/18 yr olds who work for minimum wage.
Tillmann, 25, and his younger brother, Kevin, are joining together, and Tillman reportedly hopes to resume his NFL career after the three-year commitment.
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This is where it gets weird. I thought to be a Ranger you had to sign on for at least 4 years, then it would take at least 1 year or more to make it to Ranger school, then, IF you pass the first time, there had to be 3 years retainability (or thereabout). Its hard to say, since we don't know if he's going the officer route, or if he'll get the 75th Ranger reg in his contract rather than, say, an Airborne division, etc. I wonder how long he was thinking about this before acting on it. Why didn't he do this before getting married? - the article says hes a newly wed. As an 11b, especially if he makes Ranger, he'll almost never be home with her. Whatever the case though, good luck to him. Out of curiosity, I wonder if his brother also has Ranger aspirations?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 9:04:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Last chance: [b]"Does insulting a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than you make you feel better? "[/b]
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Thanks for the second chance, I really don't deserve it.
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No, you don't deserve it.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: You are very generous.
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Yes, I am.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: So by serving in the Military, one has a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than one who has not?
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No, I did not say that. I said Mr. Tillman has a higher sense of duty than YOU. Money is not as important to him as defending his country in the military. For YOU, money IS more important than defending your country in the military [b]AND SO you insult Mr. Tillman's intellect because he can't be bribed away from serving in the military while YOU can?!?[/b].
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Coming from one who has not(you) to one who has(me) I'll accept your apology.
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Now you're hallucinating.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: I haven't insulted Mr. Tillman...
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Originally Posted By Sukebe: ... I just have to question his intellect.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: I'm having a little fun seeing how pissed off someone can get over B.S. on the internet. Computers truly are a powerful tool. I can effortlessly piss someone off way across the country by saying something trivial.
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Yes, computers and the Internet are powerful. You can self-righteously make an ass of yourself to thousands of people across the country all without ever leaving your home.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: In answer to your question, Mr. Tillman wasn't insulted, you were. So according to your logic since I have served and you haven't, I have not insulted a man with a higher sense of duty, honor and courage than me. [red]How do you like me now?[/red]
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Is that all you ever think about - yourself??? Bottom-line: You questioned his intellect because he put military service before money. You can disagree. You can say you wouldn't do that. But to question his intellect?!? That's just self-serving pettiness on your part.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 10:45:39 AM EDT
You're a Cardinals fan aren't you?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 10:53:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: You're a Cardinals fan aren't you?
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Alright [b]THAT'S IT!![/b] That's the LAST STRAW!! There is NO REASON to say such vile, sickening things to a person whom you've never even met!! You've already insulted me and Mr. Tillman, but [b]THIS[/b] is reprehensible!! I've had ENOUGH of your muthaf@kking insults!!! I just want to get this in before the Mods lock this thread for what you just said!! Piss off!![pissed] [;)]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 10:56:26 AM EDT
You're right, that was way over the top. I take it back.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 10:58:31 AM EDT
Anyone else suspect that Sukebe = Kramrd?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 11:03:45 AM EDT
I'll bet he fails, just like that boxer who left boxing to try to become a Marine--and failed. The Marines gave him a rude awakening, and so to will the Rangers give this boy--assuming he can even make it through RIP. . . I'd say the chances of someone going from living in the lap of luxury, to the utter misery of Ranger School, and making it through (and tabbing), is somewhere between slim and none. This guy probably won't even make it though Darby Phase! Unlike the Navy's BUDS, at Ranger school, students don't get to go home at night; AND hell week lasts for 70+ days. . . . . we'll see how this boy does. [By the way, my use of the word "boy" is due to his age, not race (whatever he is).]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 11:18:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JPPJ: I'll bet he fails, just like that boxer who left boxing to try to become a Marine--and failed. The Marines gave him a rude awakening, and so to will the Rangers give this boy--assuming he can even make it through RIP. . . I'd say the chances of someone going from living in the lap of luxury, to the utter misery of Ranger School, and making it through (and tabbing), is somewhere between slim and none. This guy probably won't even make it though Darby Phase! Unlike the Navy's BUDS, at Ranger school, students don't get to go home at night; AND hell week lasts for 70+ days. . . . . we'll see how this boy does. [By the way, my use of the word "boy" is due to his age, not race (whatever he is).]
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WHat if he does make it? I hope you won't come back on here and say that they took it easy on him because of his celebrity status. I think it is a noble deed he's undertaking. There are a lot of people who don't have the courage and guts to give up a life of wealth and luxury to serve their country. I have a lot of admiration for him. It would be nice to see the NFL make an example of him to show America what a man of character looks like.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 11:20:44 AM EDT
Here´s a good thread from SOCNET, several active or former members of various special operations units voice their opinion on the matter. [url]http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15367[/url]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 11:56:29 AM EDT
What a fool! There are enough people wanting to be Rangers that it isn't like his particular skills or abilities will be missed. He should stick to his peacetime role. The fact that he isn't shows exactly how much of an idiot he really is--he has actually bought into all this patriotic claptrap and "we're at war" nonsense. Whatever Afghanistan is, it isn't a war. Vietnam wasn't a real war either, and it was a hell of a lot more real that this latest bunch of politically-motivated (and perhaps created) nonsense. If he wants to help our country, he should play baseball for [b]free[/b] and help take the goddamn wind out of the sails of the professional sports industry that does little for our nation except provide a convenient diversion from the truly important matters. I can't believe what those silly idiots make. Discouraging kids from focusing too much on sports and not enough on learning to do math, write, and know something about history is all that professional sports really offers us. It's a pastime, not a way of life.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 11:58:19 AM EDT
I sincerely hope that he makes the grade.. Go Pat!!! -T.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 12:07:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: You're right, that was way over the top. I take it back.
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Good. Now do you still [u]doubt[/u] Mr. Tillman's [u]intellect[/u] or do you just [u]disagree[/u] with his [u]choice[/u]?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 12:21:37 PM EDT
When I said I doubt his intellect I was being glib. I just couldn't come out and say it because I was having too much fun sparring with you. That being said, at this point in my life(knowing what I know now) and being somewhat jaded and cynical. If I had 9 million dollars in one hand and a guaranteed Ranger contract in the other and had to make a choice, I'd take the money and never look back. I sometimes wonder why we (the middle class) have to fight the wars. The wealthy have so much more to lose yet the days of the likes of the Kennedy's and the Bush's putting on a uniform and going to war for their country went out with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. The truely privileged socio- economic elite will never defend what they have when they have all of us to do it for them. I suppose we can thank them for providing the tools of the trade which by the way only makes them more wealthy. The country and what it stands for is worth fighting for but as time goes by less and less of the people who live here are worth fighting for, at least that's how I feel at this moment.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 12:35:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2002 12:37:56 PM EDT by HBAR16]
Originally Posted By SliPkNoT: This is where it gets weird. I thought to be a Ranger you had to sign on for at least 4 years, then it would take at least 1 year or more to make it to Ranger school, then, IF you pass the first time, there had to be 3 years retainability (or thereabout). Its hard to say, since we don't know if he's going the officer route, or if he'll get the 75th Ranger reg in his contract rather than, say, an Airborne division, etc.
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When I went into the Army in 83 you could get 75th Ranger Regiment in your contract. You would go to OSUT at Benning, Airborne School, and then off to the Regiment. Once in the Regiment you would then go to RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program). If you passed RIP you were then "a Ranger" - a member of the Ranger Regiment. Ranger School was something that you actually went to once you were accepted into the Regiment, usually sometime around E-3 or E-4, most probably before you got your E-5. Now what heppened if you don't pass RIP? I knew plenty of guys in the 82nd who were contracted for the Regiment and boloed out of RIP for physical or other reasons. They all ended up in the 82nd.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 12:39:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: What a fool!
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Yes, you are. But we knew that already.
There are enough people wanting to be Rangers that it isn't like his particular skills or abilities will be missed.
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And if everyone had that outlook, there would be no Rangers.
He should stick to his peacetime role.
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You should stick to reading the comics.
The fact that he isn't shows exactly how much of an idiot he really is--he has actually bought into all this patriotic claptrap and "we're at war" nonsense.
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No, you're confused again...this shows what an idiot YOU are.
Whatever Afghanistan is, it isn't a war.
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Yeah, it's just a military conflict with people who want to kill us, where our soldiers are killing and dying. What DO they call that? Oh yeah...a war.
Vietnam wasn't a real war either, and it was a hell of a lot more real that this latest bunch of politically-motivated (and perhaps created) nonsense.
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The only nonsense is every word that comes out of your keyboard.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 12:44:37 PM EDT
[usa]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 1:15:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2002 1:16:49 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By Sukebe: When I said I doubt his intellect I was being glib. I just couldn't come out and say it because I was having too much fun sparring with you.
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Very well. Thanks for the "clarification". And thanks for your service to this country. As far as sparring, no one was holding a gun to my head either.[;)]
Originally Posted By Sukebe: I sometimes wonder why we (the middle class) have to fight the wars. The wealthy have so much more to lose yet the days of the likes of the Kennedy's and the Bush's putting on a uniform and going to war for their country went out with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.
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Hence, our admiration of Mr. Tillman's choice to give up millions and put his life on the line defending rich and poor alike.
Originally Posted By Sukebe: The country and what it stands for is worth fighting for but as time goes by less and less of the people who live here are worth fighting for, at least that's how I feel at this moment.
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It does seem that way doesn't it.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 1:42:56 PM EDT
No Arc_Angel, if he makes it, what I'll say is: I WAS WRONG. [B)] Actually, they'll probably be HARDER on him BECAUSE of his celebrity status. For example, during the obstacle course in Darby phase, maybe they'll get a few extra guys to piss in the lowcrawl pit before his class goes through it . . . . [:X*]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 1:49:27 PM EDT
[size=4][b]Hey! What seems to be the problem here?[/b][/size=4] I'm reading TxDoc's great Memorial Day thread and all of a sudden I'm ankle deep in doo-doo! What gives? I can't make heads or tails out of this nasty bitch session and I'm an expert after 20+ years with Miz Hun! (Forgive me Sweetie!) Pipe down with the personal invective. Eric The(Please?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 1:53:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: [size=4][b]Hey! What seems to be the problem here?[/b][/size=4] I'm reading TxDoc's great Memorial Day thread and all of a sudden I'm ankle deep in doo-doo! What gives? I can't make heads or tails out of this nasty bitch session and I'm an expert after 20+ years with Miz Hun! (Forgive me Sweetie!) Pipe down with the personal invective. Eric The(Please?)Hun[>]:)]
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[b]ETH[/b], that's all water under the bridge, right [b]Sukebe[/b]?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 2:53:31 PM EDT
Post from The_Macallan -
ETH, that's all water under the bridge, right Sukebe?
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Cool! Eric The(RightOn,RightOn)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 2:57:38 PM EDT
[peep] I really don't care what this guy does.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:03:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: [b]ETH[/b], that's all water under the bridge, right [b]Sukebe[/b]?
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For certain.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:39:37 PM EDT
[img]http://www.salug.org/~davidm/images/usa.gif[/img][img]http://www.salug.org/~davidm/images/usa.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:47:44 PM EDT
I appreciated the replies and additional info provided by those who have persoanl experience with the military units involved. I hate to see the deviation that occurred. I just thought it was admirable that, in this day and time of the self-absorbed, money-hungry individual that is too common, to see someone willing to try something that sets a good example for kids (and adults). He may be successful or fail, but at least he is going to try. He just got married. How many women would stay with a guy who is quitting his job and possibly putting his future earnings and life in jeopardy? Something must be said for her, too. I hope he does not receive preferential treatment and has to compete on a level field with all other potential Rangers. I doubt he is on drugs, of any kind. Although he may be looked at as being crazy, he apparently has given this decision some thought and is not grandstanding. His coach made the announcement and he was not present to say, "look at me". Time will tell. I don't understand why anyone would have a sincere desire to see him fail. I wish him luck and hope that his progess will be reported.
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