Posted: 6/20/2011 12:15:55 AM EDT
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How likely are they to cause serious injury/death assuming the user is wearing eye protecting? Describe the most likely injury patterns in such isntances. I've seen a few youtube vids of people having guns blow up in their faces, and it doesn't seem like they ever get seriously injured. Just wondering how scared I should be of this?  |
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Real answer: It Depends.
With good eye-pro I'd expect soft tissue damage to the hand/arms nearest the gun, with the possibility of lacerations to the face/upper torso. There are lots of potential catastrophic firearms failures, and those would result in different types of injuries. A simple case rupture for example might at most result in eye damage, or some light stippling of the face/arms with good eye-pro. Squib round leading to a lodged projectile in the barreled, followed by another shot? Potentially major wrist/forearm damage with major venous/arterial/nerve involvement if it were a rifle. A round in the chamber that detonated rather than deflagrated? Happens sometimes, rare though. You're shooting nitrocellulose, which is effectively a high explosive. It's just that ignition method and processing of the powder ensures that 99.9999999999% of the time it burns rather than detonates. In that case even with eye-pro there's the possibility of severe damage to the soft tissue of the head and neck, depending on the design features of the firearm (is the bolt in a straight line with your eye, with just a piece of sheet metal between it and you?). ETA after the video: That appears to show a squib. The first time he dropped his mag and did an immediate action, he probably had a projectile stuck in the barrel. The next 3 or so FTFs were his guardian angel saying "Don't fucking pull the trigger again you goddamned dumbass." Note that the magazine forcibly disassembled under the pressure.  Could have been a fuck of a lot worse for the dude.
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Quoted: Real answer: It Depends. With good eye-pro I'd expect soft tissue damage to the hand/arms nearest the gun, with the possibility of lacerations to the face/upper torso. There are lots of potential catastrophic firearms failures, and those would result in different types of injuries. A simple case rupture for example might at most result in eye damage, or some light stippling of the face/arms with good eye-pro. Squib round leading to a lodged projectile in the barreled, followed by another shot? Potentially major wrist/forearm damage with major venous/arterial/nerve involvement if it were a rifle. A round in the chamber that detonated rather than deflagrated? Happens sometimes, rare though. You're shooting nitrocellulose, which is effectively a high explosive. It's just that ignition method and processing of the powder ensures that 99.9999999999% of the time it burns rather than detonates. In that case even with eye-pro there's the possibility of severe damage to the soft tissue of the head and neck, depending on the design features of the firearm (is the bolt in a straight line with your eye, with just a piece of sheet metal between it and you?). ETA after the video: That appears to show a squib. The first time he dropped his mag and did an immediate action, he probably had a projectile stuck in the barrel. The next 3 or so FTFs were his guardian angel saying "Don't fucking pull the trigger again you goddamned dumbass." Note that the magazine forcibly disassembled under the pressure. Could have been a fuck of a lot worse for the dude.Crap... that scares the shit out of me now... What causes case rupture? How do you avoid them? What causes squib rounds? How do you avoid them? Round Detonation? I assume there is no way to predict that... or prevent it.
Also... I'm primarily concerned with injury patterns from an AR15. |
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Most AR15 KBs I've seen online are typical of this. http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/ar15kaboom.html Sometimes you can even re-use the lower. I always wondered what a polymer mag would look like in a KB. |
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Quoted:
Note that the magazine forcibly disassembled under the pressure. Could have been a fuck of a lot worse for the dude.
Crap... that scares the shit out of me now... What causes case rupture? How do you avoid them? Usually headspace. Don't shoot weapons older than your gr-grandad or more worn out than an African Toyota without first using a headspace gauge. After gauging, note any signs of high pressure like popped primers, bulged cases, or shiny rings around the base of the cartridge. Don't double-load your reloads either and don't shoot ammo that Some Random Guy reloaded. Quoted:
What causes squib rounds? How do you avoid them?[div]Round Detonation? I assume there is no way to predict that... or prevent it. Squibs. Be aware of particularly light recoil/strange sounding shots. They're really usually pretty obvious, if you're paying the least bit of attention you should have a moment of "WTF was that shit?!". If you notice a really light recoil or off-sounding shot, stop and drop the mag. Ensure the barrel is not obstructed (hold a light flashlight on the muzzle and make sure the chamber is lit up, etc). In the case of the video, there's a chance that what happened to him was a squib. It may have been a primer going off and just barely pushing the projectile past the chamber. When you have a failure to fire, and you're not in a life or death situation, take a look at the casing that comes out of your chamber. If it's missing a projectile, check the barrel. Detonating rounds? Don't effing worry about it. You might as well worry about a comet landing on your head. You're 50,000,000 times more likely to die in a car wreck driving to the range. There are probably all of a couple of cases out of the last 50 years of major shooting. And I'm not aware of any deaths due to this. It's possible that's just a bullshit explanation I heard for receivers blown to shit, as well. I can't really see it happening. I'm sure someone with more experience with the chemistry of powder will be along to correct me ETA: In regards to the last, the more I think about it, the more it seems odd. I imagine any extreme over-pressure resulting in fragmented receivers or banana-peeled chambers would probably be due to abnormally fast-burning powder rather than detonating powder. Like someone charging their rifle reloads with double-based pistol powder. I just heard it sold under the name "detonation" with the nitrocellulose justification. |
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Case ruptures generally aren't catastrophic in modern guns, most chambers can handle the pressure. When Billy Joe drop out compression loads as much powder as his rock chucker can force into a case has a case rupture, that's when things go bad.
Squib loads, I have had three. 2 in a ruger 10-22 and one in a bolt gun. You just have to be paying attention, squib loads don't sound like a gunshot, because they aren't. They are a failure. The power isn't there to get the bullet out of the barrel. As a shooter, just pay attention to every shot. Sometimes it can be tough in a semi auto, but in a gas operated gun like an AR unless the squib makes it past the gas port it's not going to open the bolt. With a blow back like a 22 it can be strong enough to operate a bolt but not clear the barrel. |
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Quoted: Case ruptures generally aren't catastrophic in modern guns, most chambers can handle the pressure. When Billy Joe drop out compression loads as much powder as his rock chucker can force into a case has a case rupture, that's when things go bad. Squib loads, I have had three. 2 in a ruger 10-22 and one in a bolt gun. You just have to be paying attention, squib loads don't sound like a gunshot, because they aren't. They are a failure. The power isn't there to get the bullet out of the barrel. As a shooter, just pay attention to every shot. Sometimes it can be tough in a semi auto, but in a gas operated gun like an AR unless the squib makes it past the gas port it's not going to open the bolt. With a blow back like a 22 it can be strong enough to operate a bolt but not clear the barrel. Ok... but how common are Squib loads in commercial ammo? How about Wolf and some of the other cheap ammo sources out there? How about that Centurian .223 stuff that AIM Surplus sold a few years back? |
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The bolt gun was a box of Federal Premium in .270 Win and I have fired 8 to 10,000 rounds of hi power rifle rounds in my life and it only happened once.
The 22's were both Remington bulk from the same box. If I had to guess how many 22's I have fired it would have to be 50k plus. I used to buy 3 or 4 cases a year of Federal Bulk 22 rounds and burn them all up, you just can't beat how much fun a case of ammo can be. When it comes to shooting, if you take all the precautions, understand your weapon and don't do anything stupid, it is one of the safest past times in this country. |
| A couple of years back there was a thread going round about some black powder rifles that were having issues (don't remember the brand) but they did some terrible damage to the person shooting them. BAD. Real BAD. Hands, arms, face, etc. Hamburger looking in some cases. |