[ARCHIVED THREAD] - lean six sigma (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/10/2011 8:01:06 PM EDT
| Fuck Me..... 28 fucking Years of .gov service under the radar, and these bastards stick me on a six sigma team, assholes I hope the selection group chokes on a bag of dicks |
| The last company I worked for acquired a company that was big into six sigma and tried to integrate it. As far as I could tell, six sigma is an excuse hire a whole crapton of project managers who spend all day making spreadsheets and not actually doing any work, other than turning a 1 month project into a 12 month project. |
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Quoted: The last company I worked for acquired a company that was big into six sigma and tried to integrate it. As far as I could tell, six sigma is an excuse hire a whole crapton of project managers who spend all day making spreadsheets and not actually doing any work, other than turning a 1 month project into a 12 month project. No shit and I work at a base that test shit from 5.56 to 16" arty this should be fun  |
Six Sigma is just another fad indicative of the recent trend towards top-heavy management. At my last job the six people on my team had nine bosses. Couldn't get a single fucking thing done because every ten minutes one of our bosses was checking up on us. Then when we 'didn't meet the target' we would get bitched at by nine different people. Of course, we'd always be short one or two people because they'd be voluntold for stupid fucking temporary teams that analyzed things like toiletpaper use.  |
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Quoted:
The last company I worked for acquired a company that was big into six sigma and tried to integrate it. As far as I could tell, six sigma is an excuse hire a whole crapton of project managers who spend all day making spreadsheets and not actually doing any work, other than turning a 1 month project into a 12 month project. Ayup. I was miserable enough to find myself in the midst of a group developing software and forced to use six sigma. The 6S black belts didn't have any real software development skills and believed that writing software was approximately the same as building machinery. Nitwits. |
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Quoted: It's supposed to be statistics and common sense. Most people fail at both. Six Sigma is about companies selling consulting and training materials to implement what was in my first sentence and usually getting the results in my second sentence. "I WENT TO BUSINESS SCHOOL I KNOW ALL ABOUT [Insert industrial process] DON'T ARGUE WITH ME." That's about the best summation I've got. |
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Quoted: You got this shit right now if a round hits 60 meters off line We need to Write a paper on what could have gone wrong and how to fix it.... fuck it I say adjust and shoot again
All of the above tells me that most companies are not implementing Lean at all, and that they are implementing and executing six-sigma completely wrong. |
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Lean Six Sigma: Let's spend untold man hours figuring out where the trash can is best placed in the work center, then paint a green line around the area where it belongs.
Common sense: Place a shitcan anywhere on the work center floor, eventually it will get used and moved to the best place to suit everyone. |
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All of the above tells me that most companies are not implementing Lean at all, and that they are implementing and executing six-sigma completely wrong. This. The whole concept is efficiency maximization. It shouldnt create more work, it should yield less waste. There is inordinate value in value stream mapping and supply chain optimization in the manufacturing industry. |
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It's like everything else. 80% of people who use it don't actually understand it, and the 20% that do are cleaning up the disasters caused by the 80%. I've lost track of how many company execs I've tried to make understand that Lean isn't about cutting heads, and 6 Sigma isn't about cutting capital investment. Been doing this as an engineer and manager for 15 years, and almost no high level execs I've worked with understand it beyond what they learned by reading a short book or two, or attending a 1/2 day seminar about "Implementing Lean Methods into your organization to maximize profits and reduce waste".
Both of these systems are organized processes intended to create an environment where employees are consulted, product data is analyzed enough to be understood, and wasted efforts are eliminated in favor of effective efforts. Sadly it rarely happens, and as soon as real progress is made, someone wants to start laying off employees because "we obviously don't need them if we eliminated waste". Oh, and let's not forget to measure how many square feet of production space we reduced our work cells. So...good luck and you have my sympathy. |
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I'm six sigma certified. I agree with everyone who says that labeling a project a 'six sigma' project is pretty much a wast of overhead IF YOU HAVE A COMPETENT PROJECT MANAGER who will follow the DMAIC principles (Define, Measure, Analyze, Improve, Control). Where 6 Sigma really shines is in organizations with poor project managers who attack problems without a clear plan on fixing the root cause. |
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Lean ....LOL
about every 5-6 years....manufacturing embraces a "New" concept typically promoted by consulting groups. It is part of the cycle of "we have no fucking idea what to do with this money....and are too dumb to understand how to run our own company....so we have hired this consultant to tell us". Recently been dealing with two LEAN 6 Sigma companies....most fucked up companies that are TOP heavy that I have ever seen. Outages are the norm since they are "driving the cost" out which means "use imported parts"....which also means quality and delay issues. The same companies expect the supplier to assume all responsibility for inventory, obsolescence, quality (making up for their piss poor prints), etc. Have told them more than a few times to pound sand. Lean 6 Sigma is akin to Sarbanes Oxley. in terms of efficiency..which is another highly over-rated time waster Keep in mind...the big 6 Sigma users...are the exact ones pushing jobs overseas daily. They are a cancer |
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well lean 6 was one of the reasons my last company went under, we had a WHOLE bunch of people doing nothing but creating paperwork trying to justify their existence.
maybe since you work for the government it will grind them to a halt so they can't do anything like infringe on our freedoms |
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Quoted: "Six Sigma" is about defect reduction. "Lean" is about doing it with no resources. (It's really about eliminating non value added wheel spinning (wasteful or inefficient processes), but no resources sounds better and it's closer to the truth.) +1 It's obvious that most of the people commenting in this thread haven't been involved this companies that are practicing these principles correctly. If you take a plant tour of two competing companies, one that uses lean and the other that doesn't, it's quite obvious, especially when the lean company is #1 in the the industry and the non-lean company is #2. Most people don't understand that Six Sigma is all the statistical computation that verifies whether process changes (lean) are producing results that are statistically significant. |
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Quoted:
Six Sigma is just another fad indicative of the recent trend towards top-heavy management. At my last job the six people on my team had nine bosses. Couldn't get a single fucking thing done because every ten minutes one of our bosses was checking up on us. Then when we 'didn't meet the target' we would get bitched at by nine different people. Of course, we'd always be short one or two people because they'd be voluntold for stupid fucking temporary teams that analyzed things like toiletpaper use. Six Sigma is not new nor is it a fad. Its been around since the 80's from Motorola and Deming outlined most of the technique in the 30's (this was the basis of the Japanese Lean and quality systems in the 50's onwards). Six Sigma is bread and butter for most manufacturing and process engineers and without it we couldn't produce the products the modern world depends upon. HOWEVER, what is a fad is taking six sigma and trying to make it a management tool for non-technical managers to play with basic statistics and pareto diagrams that they don't understand. This usually results in a cycle of green/black belt projects that one group implements and gets rewarded for followed by another team that rolls back said project the following year and gets another reward. I hate watching American companies fuck up the most basic philosophy of Lean and Six Sigma which is quality and process improvements are driven by the WORKERS and not management! |
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Quoted: Six Sigma is not new nor is it a fad. Its been around since the 80's from Motorola and Deming outlined most of the technique in the 30's (this was the basis of the Japanese Lean and quality systems in the 50's onwards). Six Sigma is bread and butter for most manufacturing and process engineers and without it we couldn't produce the products the modern world depends upon. HOWEVER, what is a fad is taking six sigma and trying to make it a management tool for non-technical managers to play with basic statistics and pareto diagrams that they don't understand. This usually results in a cycle of green/black belt projects that one group implements and gets rewarded for followed by another team that rolls back said project the following year and gets another reward. I hate watching American companies fuck up the most basic philosophy of Lean and Six Sigma which is quality and process improvements are driven by the WORKERS and not management! I realize it is not brand new. I actually agree with most of Deming's work, particularly the 14 points for management (which I have never actually seen implemented anywhere, ever). I even agree that the fundamentals of Six Sigma are beneficial. However, in practice ("Communism works in theory!"), Six Sigma is implemented by know it alls with degrees in things like business or English (who the fuck hired that guy!?) who are not interested in the input of people who have been running the equipment for thirty years. The whole thing becomes a hilarious mess of people who don't even understand the process trying to tell the people who do what works and what doesn't. |
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All of the above tells me that most companies are not implementing Lean at all, and that they are implementing and executing six-sigma completely wrong. this. most companies do not have the mindset and/or the supporting business systems required to implement lean SUCCESSFULLY . It is, of course the new corporate darling just like any crappings from Jack welch were a few years back.... only the consultants benefit in the end 
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| This kind of bullshit has all but shut down any projects at a plant I used to do work for. My customer (plant engineer) spends all his time at "seminars" and training events. He tells me that he has not gotten anything done in months and hasn't learned a single thing that will help him do his job. |
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"Six Sigma" is about defect reduction. "Lean" is about doing it with no resources. (It's really about eliminating non value added wheel spinning (wasteful or inefficient processes), but no resources sounds better and it's closer to the truth.) +1 It's obvious that most of the people commenting in this thread haven't been involved this companies that are practicing these principles correctly. If you take a plant tour of two competing companies, one that uses lean and the other that doesn't, it's quite obvious, especially when the lean company is #1 in the the industry and the non-lean company is #2. Most people don't understand that Six Sigma is all the statistical computation that verifies whether process changes (lean) are producing results that are statistically significant. Of course, a lot of us who have a LSS certification don't work in manufacturing plants. It doesn't really transfer over to paperwork people (me, writing reports and gathering data to give to somebody else). Didn't help any that every example the black belt from corporate had involved...manufacturing. |
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Lol, those braindead fucks just left APG, can't tell you how retarded their solutions were. In short lts cut crews from 6 to 4.
Fuck evaluating a test plan for ridiculous requirements, like throwing out valid test results if an item preforms above what is call for |
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Lean Six Sigma: Let's spend untold man hours figuring out where the trash can is best placed in the work center, then paint a green line around the area where it belongs. That's Five S, not Six Sigma. I agree Five S is a waste... 6S now. Safety! 
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For the most part it's simply statistics structured to provide a methodology to Define, Measure, Analyze, Improve and Control. The big plus for me is that I can use real data to tell others to STFU!!! Embrace the kool-aid! Been using 6S for 13 years...
And not that I'm interested...but where does one get a bag of dicks for choking someone? |
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Lean Six Sigma: Let's spend untold man hours figuring out where the trash can is best placed in the work center, then paint a green line around the area where it belongs. That's Five S, not Six Sigma. I agree Five S is a waste... People at work laughed and ridiculed the managers and "trainers" without any pretense of hiding their opinions when this gem came around. They're still trying to figure out how that works in the shop, but all the secretaries, whoops, I mean office assistants, have neat cubes and most of the office supplies are hidden in cabinets. What is even more hilarious, is the measurement of the increase in productivity due to the implementation. Our JDAM production line is probably an outstanding example of lean. To get there required over a decade. God help you if you need a pair of channel locks or a crescent wrench however, there isn't one in the plant unless someone has one hidden in their personal stuff brought in every day. We crank out an enormous number of kits in a very small space - the production just passed 250k units. |
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Quoted: For the most part it's simply statistics structured to provide a methodology to Define, Measure, Analyze, Improve and Control. The big plus for me is that I can use real data to tell others to STFU!!! Embrace the kool-aid! Been using 6S for 13 years... And not that I'm interested...but where does one get a bag of dicks for choking someone? Nothing like going to your CIO and telling them that they've been working on the wrong problem for the past 8 months. 
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I work at a Company that does Six Sigma, Lean Manufacturing, Cellular Manufacturing and Kaizan.
Needless to say we move equipment every 2 months and the paper work load is astronomical!! It's amazing that they can get out finished product on time...........oh wait.they don't!!! they were 100K short last month with a line of balance of 1.3 Million.............seems to work really well!!! |
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Lean Six Sigma: Let's spend untold man hours figuring out where the trash can is best placed in the work center, then paint a green line around the area where it belongs. Common sense: Place a shitcan anywhere on the work center floor, eventually it will get used and moved to the best place to suit everyone. THIS. My company is doing this stupid fucking "LEAN" bullshit and it just pisses everyone off, makes more work for all of us, take 3 steps to do one thing just because it's "better that way". Let me do my fucking job and leave me the fuck alone. If there is a PROBLEM with my productivity, inform me and give me suggestions. |
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Lean six has marginal success in a manufacturing environment. it's when they try to implement this crap in a non manufacturing environment that it falls apart.
What happened to us is that I installed VoIP systems our projects were dependant by many factors outside our control and you can't create a friggen spreadsheet to quantify why a consulting firm we had hired could not implement it's part f the project. Or why the customer does not have his part ready for us to come in and implement our project. So the solution is having a Black belt create a web site that took an hour from my busy day filling in stats as to why my projects were behind to compile it in a nice little HTML chart to tell upper management that the reason my project is behind was that the customers cabling contractor was having labor problems. Oh and don't forget that when we have 10 guys in our group working on projects it's not a good idea to take 3 of them away from their jobs to train them to be Green belts, that kind of messes up the rest of the group. Lean six is a cancer |
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"Six Sigma" is about defect reduction. "Lean" is about doing it with no resources. (It's really about eliminating non value added wheel spinning (wasteful or inefficient processes), but no resources sounds better and it's closer to the truth.) +1 It's obvious that most of the people commenting in this thread haven't been involved this companies that are practicing these principles correctly. If you take a plant tour of two competing companies, one that uses lean and the other that doesn't, it's quite obvious, especially when the lean company is #1 in the the industry and the non-lean company is #2. Most people don't understand that Six Sigma is all the statistical computation that verifies whether process changes (lean) are producing results that are statistically significant. Rule 1. If you're producing the same thing repeatedly Six Sigma can make it better over time if you're committed, competent, and enduring. There are many places that it doesn't belong; like anywhere that people aren't doing something repetitious for a living. It isn't something that you can race to implement in time for the next group-level meeting to support powerpoint slides that flatter yourself. It's not going to be the magical answer to fix next quarter's numbers. People are right to dread its arrival if it's not a good fit according to core competency or people involved. |
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You got this shit right now if a round hits 60 meters off line We need to Write a paper on what could have gone wrong and how to fix it.... fuck it I say adjust and shoot againAll of the above tells me that most companies are not implementing Lean at all, and that they are implementing and executing six-sigma completely wrong. 
What is the process capable of? What is the standard deviation for accuracy? |
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Quoted: Fuck Me..... 28 fucking Years of .gov service under the radar, and these bastards stick me on a six sigma team, assholes I hope the selection group chokes on a bag of dicks Ain't it fun? Gotta go get those efficiencies! Why don't they just fire everybody and be done with it!  |
