Posted: 6/10/2011 3:06:59 PM EDT
|
I've only had two experiences working with professional gunsmiths, and they've both sucked. Is this a normal failure rate?
When I was 15, I got my first rifle. It was a used Marlin bolt-action 22LR with a wood stock. It didn't have sling swivels, so I spend $50 (around 1997) to have a local gunsmith install sling swivels. Since the gun had a wood stock, you'd think that they'd use wood screws. Nope, that would make sense. Instead, the gunsmith used a sling swivel with with a machine screw which promptly ripped out of the wood (while in a case driving home from the range). About a year ago, I paid a gunsmith to install night sights on a S&W M&P. Within 50 rounds the front sight is hanging off the side of the gun. Thinking that maybe he did it right and I didn't give enough time for the loctite to dry, I tapped the sight back in place, re-apply a bunch of red loctite, give it two friggin months to dry. 50 rounds later the sight's half way off the slide again. Best I can tell, instead of actually fitting the sight, he just filed it down until it was too damn loose, and tried to use loctite as a filler. Guess it's time to go buy a new front sight. |
| Wow, you got too bad gunsmiths in a row! I've only ever had one bad gunsmith experience. Had a Savage Stevens 67 pump shotgun. Recoil lug on the bolt broke off after a day of skeet shooting with magnum loads - dumb idea but I was 13 and loaded my own, buddy who was going shooting with me wanted to use mag loads. Gunsmith decided to "silver solder" it back together rather than order the replacement lower bolt shelf that had the broken recoil lug. His "repair" job broke when I manually cycled the gun. I ordered the replacement part myself from Savage, gun fixed. Since then, I've had a mauser sporterized, numerous night site sets installed, recoild pads, etc, no issues. Used a number of different smiths for these, depending on where I lived. Good luck finding a better gunsmith in your neck of the woods. |
|
Quoted: Best I can tell, instead of actually fitting the sight, he just filed it down until it was too damn loose, and tried to use loctite as a filler. Guess it's time to go buy a new front sight. If it's a dovetail sight, sometimes using a punch to create craters with raised material around them will make it tight enough. |
|
There are a lot of shitty 'gunsmiths' out there, that's why the trade is dying. I'm a gunsmith here in CT and I've come across many people who have called themselves 'Gunsmiths' but couldn't use a lathe or file if they tried.
Sorry you had a bad experience, any gunsmith with a lick of fucking sense would have corrected his mistakes, both for the swivels and the sights. Sounds like he had inadequate tools and just improvised, poorly. |
|
Quoted:
I've only had two experiences working with professional gunsmiths, and they've both sucked. Is this a normal failure rate? When I was 15, I got my first rifle. It was a used Marlin bolt-action 22LR with a wood stock. It didn't have sling swivels, so I spend $50 (around 1997) to have a local gunsmith install sling swivels. Since the gun had a wood stock, you'd think that they'd use wood screws. Nope, that would make sense. Instead, the gunsmith used a sling swivel with with a machine screw which promptly ripped out of the wood (while in a case driving home from the range). You would think that, wouldn't you? About a year ago, I paid a gunsmith to install night sights on a S&W M&P. Within 50 rounds the front sight is hanging off the side of the gun. Thinking that maybe he did it right and I didn't give enough time for the loctite to dry, I tapped the sight back in place, re-apply a bunch of red loctite, give it two friggin months to dry. 50 rounds later the sight's half way off the slide again. Best I can tell, instead of actually fitting the sight, he just filed it down until it was too damn loose, and tried to use loctite as a filler. Guess it's time to go buy a new front sight. You don't "fit" night sights into guns for which they are commonly available with the proper dovetails. It would be a silly thing to even attempt. Are you sure you haven't left out a couple of details? |
|
Sent my AK-74 to JB Cusoms, Indiana. They quote me $375 for a barrel swap and parkarize.
5 months later I call and say I just want the gun back now, I'll find someone else. No reply. Two days later I call again. Just want my gun back, so what if it keyholes....I'll have my gun. He calls the next day all proud that he got the pin out and removed the barrel. "well, I got the hard part done for you !" charges me $180 for a pin removal and shipping back all still in pieces. He does not have the equipment to set the head space. 
C&S Metall Werkes says 30 days and done.  just sent it off today. Quoted $600 for barrel and parkarize.
|
|
Quoted:
About a year ago, I paid a gunsmith to install night sights on a S&W M&P. Within 50 rounds the front sight is hanging off the side of the gun. Thinking that maybe he did it right and I didn't give enough time for the loctite to dry, I tapped the sight back in place, re-apply a bunch of red loctite, give it two friggin months to dry. 50 rounds later the sight's half way off the slide again. Best I can tell, instead of actually fitting the sight, he just filed it down until it was too damn loose, and tried to use loctite as a filler. Guess it's time to go buy a new front sight. You don't "fit" night sights into guns for which they are commonly available with the proper dovetails. It would be a silly thing to even attempt. Are you sure you haven't left out a couple of details? Well, he installed an APEX USB at the same time, but the sights were definately M&P sights. Warren Tactical plain rear/tritium front. The Warren Tactical front is actually a Trijicon, but sold under the Warren Tactical name. EDIT: http://www.skdtac.com/Warren_Tactical_Sight_Tritium_Front_Rear_p/wrt.208.htm are the sights I bought, and the gunsmith didn't give me any "Hey, these are the wrong sights" line when I handed them to him. |
|
Quoted:
Sent my AK-74 to JB Cusoms, Indiana. They quote me $375 for a barrel swap and parkarize. 5 months later I call and say I just want the gun back now, I'll find someone else. No reply. Two days later I call again. Just want my gun back, so what if it keyholes....I'll have my gun. He calls the next day all proud that he got the pin out and removed the barrel. "well, I got the hard part done for you !" charges me $180 for a pin removal and shipping back all still in pieces. He does not have the equipment to set the head space.
C&S Metall Werkes says 30 days and done. just sent it off today. Quoted $600 for barrel and parkarize.You could buy all the equipment to do it yourself cheaper than that. 
|
I've used professional gunsmiths three times in my life..and they botched the job every time. ...this not counting sending guns back for warranty work..the factory's gunsmiths ain't any good either
That's when I decided to take a gunsmithing course at the local vo-tech...I do my own 'smithing now...and am more succesful than the pro's I paid to fuck-up my guns.
I'm just as incompetent as the average gunsmith..and a whole bunch cheaper... 
|
|
There are two types of gunsmiths in this world. There are REALLY SHITTY gunsmiths and there are REALLY AWESOME gunsmiths.
It is almost impossible to tell the two apart, as the really awesome ones are not noted for their people skills or ability to adhere to their own schedule. It comes down to reputation and areas of expertise. Some things are pretty universal, and a "1911 smith" should be able to handle D&T scope mounts on a hunting rifle, but there are obviously some that are excellent in specifics. Good luck. Seek references. These guys are a hard read. Your best defense is to learn what questions to ask. Ask them what tools they will use, what the end product will look like, etc. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sent my AK-74 to JB Cusoms, Indiana. They quote me $375 for a barrel swap and parkarize. 5 months later I call and say I just want the gun back now, I'll find someone else. No reply. Two days later I call again. Just want my gun back, so what if it keyholes....I'll have my gun. He calls the next day all proud that he got the pin out and removed the barrel. "well, I got the hard part done for you !" charges me $180 for a pin removal and shipping back all still in pieces. He does not have the equipment to set the head space.
C&S Metall Werkes says 30 days and done. just sent it off today. Quoted $600 for barrel and parkarize.You could buy all the equipment to do it yourself cheaper than that. For a 2- ton press? The equipment to mill out the already half-mooned notches for the sight & gas block? The setup to parkarize? The tools to set the head space? The time it would take to do all this?
|
|
There is a guy local to me that one day decided to become a Gunsmith. He got his FFL and city Business license and now calls himself a gunsmith.
First 10-22 that came into the shop which was also the first 10-22 that he ever took apart. He did a trigger job on it and the customer called later complaining it was shooting bursts of 3-5rds with one trigger pull. First 1911 that came into the shop which was also the first 1911 that he had ever held, He put a huge Idiot scratch across the slide with the takedown lever. First time ever drilling and tapping he tried to mount a scope on a Henry .22mag and drilled into the bore. Tries to take stubborn screws out of guns with the wrong set of screwdrivers and buggers them all up, like a nice Browning A-5 one time. Of course he lies and tells everyone he is a "Certified Gunsmith" and charges them all profesional gunsmith prices. He screws up more than half of the guns that come in, I don't know why people are so dumb to spend there money on him. He is the most dishonest buisinessman that I know of he has never taken any gunsmith classes or courses. Also a gun will come into the shop that he wants and he will call the customer/owner up and tell them that it cant be fixed or that it is to expensive to fix but he will take it for parts dirt cheap. Then he fixes them up and keeps them or sells them for top dollar. The worst part about it is he is my brother in law and he always is asking me for advice on how to fix this or that gun. |
| A guy in my area is supposed to be good. I took my pistol to him and waited a year and still wasn't fixed. I asked to get it back and got some attitude as he handed it back. He may be good but he's a prick. I fixed it myself. I will sell a gun as is before I take it to him. I'm guessing that he would treat gun shops that bring him work with more respect. |
| $600 for an ak barrel change is nuts any which way you cut it. A cheap 12 ton press is $100, drill press $200, gauges $60 (est I'm on my phone), various bits $20. Then you still have money left over if you don't want to try parkerizing it yourself. You'd be better off buying another gun then paying that much unless it was NFA. There are plenty of guys who do much more involved AK builds with only hand tools. |
|
Quoted:
There is a guy local to me that one day decided to become a Gunsmith. He got his FFL and city Business license and now calls himself a gunsmith. First 10-22 that came into the shop which was also the first 10-22 that he ever took apart. He did a trigger job on it and the customer called later complaining it was shooting bursts of 3-5rds with one trigger pull. First 1911 that came into the shop which was also the first 1911 that he had ever held, He put a huge Idiot scratch across the slide with the takedown lever. First time ever drilling and tapping he tried to mount a scope on a Henry .22mag and drilled into the bore. Tries to take stubborn screws out of guns with the wrong set of screwdrivers and buggers them all up, like a nice Browning A-5 one time. Of course he lies and tells everyone he is a "Certified Gunsmith" and charges them all profesional gunsmith prices. He screws up more than half of the guns that come in, I don't know why people are so dumb to spend there money on him. He is the most dishonest buisinessman that I know of he has never taken any gunsmith classes or courses. Also a gun will come into the shop that he wants and he will call the customer/owner up and tell them that it cant be fixed or that it is to expensive to fix but he will take it for parts dirt cheap. Then he fixes them up and keeps them or sells them for top dollar. The worst part about it is he is my brother in law and he always is asking me for advice on how to fix this or that gun. This is one of those situations it is ok to ignore family/blood/kin's request for assistance. It is not that he is a bad gunsmith. It is that he is not a gunsmith and is therefore defrauding the public. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sent my AK-74 to JB Cusoms, Indiana. They quote me $375 for a barrel swap and parkarize. 5 months later I call and say I just want the gun back now, I'll find someone else. No reply. Two days later I call again. Just want my gun back, so what if it keyholes....I'll have my gun. He calls the next day all proud that he got the pin out and removed the barrel. "well, I got the hard part done for you !" charges me $180 for a pin removal and shipping back all still in pieces. He does not have the equipment to set the head space.
C&S Metall Werkes says 30 days and done. just sent it off today. Quoted $600 for barrel and parkarize.$600 for an AK barrel change is nuts any which way you do it. You could buy all the equipment to do it yourself cheaper than that. For a 2- ton press? The equipment to mill out the already half-mooned notches for the sight & gas block? The setup to parkarize? The tools to set the head space? The time it would take to do all this?
I appreciate the input, but I have salt here in the house already that I can rub on my wound. All I fucking ever wanted was the new barrel I bought to fix my gun installed. I'm now $550+ into the gun, $225 into shipping and pin removal, and will add $600 to that on top of almost 7 months between the two gunsmiths. Bottom line is I will have a proper working gun when finished and that is stuff I cannot do myself. As I see it, my hourly rate is $120. I will gladly pay the equivalent to have work done that I do not own the equipment to do myself. It will be money well spent to have a gun I like finally finished and back in my collection. |
| My Grandpa had a Mossberg .410 bolt-action shotgun that would not eject the last round. He sent it to a gunsmith, but the problem didn't go away. A few years later he gave it to me. I took it apart, studied each piece, and re-assembled it with the magazine follower reversed from the way I got it. Never had a problem with it since. |