Posted: 5/24/2011 10:56:55 AM EDT
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Maybe its just california or maybe its just the city I live in, but aparently I cannot build a PATIO COVER without a building permit, and to get the building permit I have to have plans drawn up in triplicate all with engineering calculations and stamped and wet signed. I already have the plans drawn and I just got a rough estimatefrom an engineer of what it would cost just to have the calculations, stamped and wet signing done: $900. If the plans need to be altered or redrawn, then it will be another $900.
Can anyone tell me why it would take a whole day to do this and why $900 a day is ok? is it just california? I already hate this state, another reason to hate it is all I need right now. Thank you for the help. |
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Quoted: No, its not just CA. Same in PA to a degree. I own the home, I pay the property taxes, mortgage payments, etc. Yet, if I want to put a small storage shed in my back yard, I have to get the township's permission and pay a permit fee. That's a whole different issue, for the most part. In your case, it's zoning related. In the OP's case, it's bureaucracy. |
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Just do it on a Sunday morning and forget about it. 
ETA - screw guns are much less noisy than hammers, and hand saws don't make much noise at all. In Houston you need a permit to replace a front door, garage door, or fence. We did the garage on a Saturday, the front door on a Sunday. For the fence we plan to dig post holes Friday night, cement the posts Saturday morning, and finish it Sunday. City wanted over $100 for permits and inspections for me to hook up my new appliances when I moved into this house. Guess how much they got? 
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It's a sign you live in a nice area. Be glad you need permits. It really has nothing to do with this. It's all about money and control. ...and bureaucrats justifying their existance. Can you imagine the horror if a homeowner was allowed to do something with his property without some nameless local government appointed figure giving his approval and driving up the cost of the project? |
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First Rule ..NEVER EVER EVER!!! INVITE THE MAN INTO YOUR LIFE EVER!!! BETTER TO BEG FOR FORGIVENESS THAN TO ASK FOR PERMISSION
YMMV  That doesn't always work. Guy bought a house down the street from my parents a few years back (suburb of Rochester NY) and figured he'd put up a small shed.Built a really nice shed in a weekend.Town called him up the following week and it had to be moved/torn down because he didn't get a permit.He took it down and the house went up for sale. You're supposed to get a permit to replace your hot water heater as well as a bunch of other bullshit.The bullshit is everywhere. |
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Can anyone tell me why it would take a whole day to do this and why $900 a day is ok? Because the engineer has to check the local code (which may be different that the state or county code) for wind loads and special size provisions, do the math, make sure your drawing matches the math, add notes that the township wants to see, add notes to cover their ass, add notes showing the design criteria, copy, sign, seal, fill out your permit applications and get it all back to you. If you don't like it, go get your own engineering degree, do your four years of EIT, sit for the PE, sit for the CA special exams, get your business license, errors and omissions insurance, and certificate of authorization and seal it yourself. The idea here is that the town keeps crackpots from building stupid shit in their yard and driving down home values for the neighbors. It also makes sure that even if you didn't build a giant cock out of tin cans, whatever you built isn't going to collapse in the next rain storm. |
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Can anyone tell me why it would take a whole day to do this and why $900 a day is ok? Because the engineer has to check the local code (which may be different that the state or county code) for wind loads and special size provisions, do the math, make sure your drawing matches the math, add notes that the township wants to see, add notes to cover their ass, add notes showing the design criteria, copy, sign, seal, fill out your permit applications and get it all back to you. If you don't like it, go get your own engineering degree, do your four years of EIT, sit for the PE, sit for the CA special exams, get your business license, errors and omissions insurance, and certificate of authorization and seal it yourself. The idea here is that the town keeps crackpots from building stupid shit in their yard and driving down home values for the neighbors. It also makes sure that even if you didn't build a giant cock out of tin cans, whatever you built isn't going to collapse in the next rain storm. +1 |
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Can anyone tell me why it would take a whole day to do this and why $900 a day is ok? Because the engineer has to check the local code (which may be different that the state or county code) for wind loads and special size provisions, do the math, make sure your drawing matches the math, add notes that the township wants to see, add notes to cover their ass, add notes showing the design criteria, copy, sign, seal, fill out your permit applications and get it all back to you. If you don't like it, go get your own engineering degree, do your four years of EIT, sit for the PE, sit for the CA special exams, get your business license, errors and omissions insurance, and certificate of authorization and seal it yourself. The idea here is that the town keeps crackpots from building stupid shit in their yard and driving down home values for the neighbors. It also makes sure that even if you didn't build a giant cock out of tin cans, whatever you built isn't going to collapse in the next rain storm. Don't go making sense now. Everyone in GD knows that the man's just trying to hate on their double-wide additions. |
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First Rule ..NEVER EVER EVER!!! INVITE THE MAN INTO YOUR LIFE EVER!!! BETTER TO BEG FOR FORGIVENESS THAN TO ASK FOR PERMISSION
YMMV Tell that to my former neighbor who spent thousands of dollars putting in a privacy fence, and was then charged more than twice the amount of installation when the city came in and pulled it out without so much as a letter telling her she had to remove it. |
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Can anyone tell me why it would take a whole day to do this and why $900 a day is ok? Because the engineer has to check the local code (which may be different that the state or county code) for wind loads and special size provisions, do the math, make sure your drawing matches the math, add notes that the township wants to see, add notes to cover their ass, add notes showing the design criteria, copy, sign, seal, fill out your permit applications and get it all back to you. If you don't like it, go get your own engineering degree, do your four years of EIT, sit for the PE, sit for the CA special exams, get your business license, errors and omissions insurance, and certificate of authorization and seal it yourself. this is true. he's signing his name to it, it has to be right The idea here is that the town keeps crackpots from building stupid shit in their yard and driving down home values for the neighbors. It also makes sure that even if you didn't build a giant cock out of tin cans, whatever you built isn't going to collapse in the next rain storm. this, however, is bullshit it's all about the money for the town. the town doesn't give a shit if it falls down or not (otherwise THEY could inspect the drawings and see if they meet local codes, instead of forcing you to get a stamp), or you know, they could actually inspect the building. it's all about the money for the city and job justification, does'nt have a goddamn thing to do with safety. |
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Quoted: While I, a P.E., agree with much of what you write, I don't think that every little thing that someone builds on his property needs to be engineered and/or permitted. In the OP's case, he was writing about a patio cover. I don't know precisely what that means, but in these parts we'd call that a pergola. It's not a load-bearing structure, and does not impart any significant load to the main structure, if at all. The thing is that in California, it has become law that everything requires a permit, and every permit requires a licensed professional's seal. In my opinion, doing so does not strengthen the value of licensed professions; it weakens and cheapens it.Quoted: Can anyone tell me why it would take a whole day to do this and why $900 a day is ok? Because the engineer has to check the local code (which may be different that the state or county code) for wind loads and special size provisions, do the math, make sure your drawing matches the math, add notes that the township wants to see, add notes to cover their ass, add notes showing the design criteria, copy, sign, seal, fill out your permit applications and get it all back to you. If you don't like it, go get your own engineering degree, do your four years of EIT, sit for the PE, sit for the CA special exams, get your business license, errors and omissions insurance, and certificate of authorization and seal it yourself. The idea here is that the town keeps crackpots from building stupid shit in their yard and driving down home values for the neighbors. It also makes sure that even if you didn't build a giant cock out of tin cans, whatever you built isn't going to collapse in the next rain storm. |
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First Rule ..NEVER EVER EVER!!! INVITE THE MAN INTO YOUR LIFE EVER!!! BETTER TO BEG FOR FORGIVENESS THAN TO ASK FOR PERMISSION
YMMV Indeed, your mileage may vary. A developer built a Radisson right beside I-95 in Delaware back in the late 90's. He put an extra floor on, apologized and tried to get occupancy. The county said absolutely not. They suggested that he fill the top floor with foam to make it inaccessible. The developer (his brother murdered the governor's secretary - Tom Capano) went bankrupt, the hotel was sold a couple more times and never opened. In fact, the current owner donated all the fixtures to Habitat for Humanity. |
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it's all about the money for the city and job justification, does'nt have a goddamn thing to do with safety. Yep,the small stuff like water heater permits are just go in,pay the 20.00 (or whatever) and get a permit.They don't send anyone to inspect it,they just want the easy money. |
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Can anyone tell me why it would take a whole day to do this and why $900 a day is ok? The thing is that in California, it has become law that everything requires a permit, and every permit requires a licensed professional's seal. In my opinion, doing so does not strengthen the value of licensed professions; it weakens and cheapens it. While CA may be leading the charge, NYC isn't far behind. The engineer is used not as a professional resource, but as a way to defray liability. I agree. Quoted:
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The idea here is that the town keeps crackpots from building stupid shit in their yard and driving down home values for the neighbors. It also makes sure that even if you didn't build a giant cock out of tin cans, whatever you built isn't going to collapse in the next rain storm. this, however, is bullshit it's all about the money for the town. the town doesn't give a shit if it falls down or not (otherwise THEY could inspect the drawings and see if they meet local codes, instead of forcing you to get a stamp), or you know, they could actually inspect the building. it's all about the money for the city and job justification, does'nt have a goddamn thing to do with safety. That's the idea, just like traffic stops should punish drivers who pose a threat to others. Both operations have lost their focus and become revenue streams. They do give a shit if it falls down. The building department gets a whole lot of trouble when things collapse that aren't supposed to because the elected officials ask a lot of nasty questions and fire people. Often, the code officials do review the drawings to make sure codes are met and calculations match drawings and they do inspect structures. |
Read the rules carefully. I was told if my second floor deck was going to be attached to my house I needed a permit. I built it free standing right up next to the house, you could just slip a dollar bill between the house and deck
Another place I lived I just did shit after hours and on the weekends, fuck permits. |