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Posted: 5/15/2002 6:23:57 PM EDT
I am currently looking for a everyday "take me to work" vehicle, and have pretty much decided on the chevy blazer. now for the delima, which one.. one is a 99 with 66k miles for 11k, and the other is a 97 with 100k with a 1yr extended warrenty, unlimited mile bumper to bumper for 7500. How do you decide which one to go with? Do you have a magic theory that compares miles to age, or just go with price? for what its worth, both are excellent or better condition. Any advice is welcome...thanks..fullclip
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 6:53:24 PM EDT
4 runner
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 6:58:10 PM EDT
A 4runner would be nice, but out of the price range for a non-primary ride. thanks...fullclip
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 6:59:59 PM EDT
you buy a 4 runner, and you also buy ME a HUMMER!!![NI]
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 7:03:00 PM EDT
ebay, 4 runner, go now...
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 7:58:01 PM EDT
[url]http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/display/automobiles?ct_hft=detail&cc=automobiles&cr=&cid=automobiles-1020826721-9296071&intl=[/url] [:D]
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:51:11 PM EDT
Fullclip don't buy the Blazer!! There is a reason it is cheap. Go to [url]www.carreview.com[/url] and check out the reviews sent in by people that own them. The mid to late '90's Blazer/Jimmy vehicles are the worst rated SUV. They have had all kinds of transmission,EGR valve,head gasket.....problems. Check it out before you buy. P.S. I like Chevy's, just not these.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:57:45 PM EDT
Get a jeep. That way you can pull out all the other SUV's on the trail [:)] Jeep is the ar-15 of the suv world.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 8:58:01 PM EDT
Fullclip, The old blazers are crap, you are just asking for trouble buying one with that high a mileage. What about a used explorer, I know their ford, but it would be better than the Blazer. Bill3508
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 11:14:20 PM EDT
If I were you I'd get what you like. You will hear whining about any vehicle you choose if you look for it. The way vehicles are usually maintained these days they will usually get many more than 100k miles. Most are created pretty equal. If you can swing the newer one, that's probably your best bet just for resale value. Look up the values on kbb.com or something. You may also want to arrange a test drive, where you take whichever one you choose, to the mechanic of your choice. They are the ones that work on them. They will know what too look for. Most won't charge too much to look over a vehicle for you. If you get an Exploder, make sure it doesn't have Firestones on it ;)
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 11:20:41 PM EDT
how about suzuki samurai?
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:15:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JAFO: If I were you I'd get what you like. You will hear whining about any vehicle you choose if you look for it. The way vehicles are usually maintained these days they will usually get many more than 100k miles. Most are created pretty equal. If you can swing the newer one, that's probably your best bet just for resale value. Look up the values on kbb.com or something. You may also want to arrange a test drive, where you take whichever one you choose, to the mechanic of your choice. They are the ones that work on them. They will know what too look for. Most won't charge too much to look over a vehicle for you. If you get an Exploder, make sure it doesn't have Firestones on it ;)
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Certain model years of some vehicles sometimes have common problems that run through a good percentage of the production run and should be avoided. If you ask your mechanic if you should buy the 1990-something Blazer he will probably tell you to buy it. It will keep him in work. There is a post on [url]www.carreview.com[/url] where the mechanic at a GM dealer told him the exact same thing.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:31:31 AM EDT
Reviews from:[url]www.carreview.com[/url] Model/Year: 1995 2door Price Paid: $14000 at Suss Pontiacl Summary: Man...I wish I could say I loved my Blazer, but it''s been pretty rocky. We owned a 1984 S-10 Blazer before this one, and I wish we still had it - it was solid as a rock. We currently own the 1995 2-door as well as a 1997 and 2001 4-door. The 1995 has had the worst problems - three EGR replacements, four fuel pump replacements (dealer service is not up to par, would be my guess) a new rear end, front idle arm replacement, and minor recall stuff. Most notably, all three trucks have had oil-filter hose work done on them - after six years, Chevy hasn''t figured out how to make a reliable remote oil filter. When it''s running, the ''95 is a tough, reliable truck, but when the engine cuts out on you at highway speeds, it makes you kind of nervous. :) Strengths: Tough, usually reliable, good offroad performance (not for soccer moms!) huge cargo capacity, good looking :) Weaknesses: It''ll nickel-and-dime you death - get a GMPP warranty if you''re buying it used, and sell it before the warranty dies. Reviewed by: mike Model/Year: 1998 ls Price Paid: $25000 Summary: Nice looking but not worth the money Strengths: runs good strong motor Weaknesses: Transmission went out after only 70,000 easy miles. Rides rough, eats gas Reviewed by: owings1064, from St.Paul, Minnesota (con't)
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:32:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2002 12:37:03 AM EDT by Luavul]
(cont'd) Model/Year: 1996 Price Paid: $18000 at Polar Chev Summary: The Blazer is notorious for mechanical problems. While taking dilivery of my Blazer, I wandered into the shop and happened to find a mechanic on brake. I asked him about the Blazer and he stated.."If it weren''t for the Blazer I''d be out of a job." I asked him to elaborate on this and he basically said that he repairs more Blazers than any other GM vehicle. I told him I was just taking delivery of my 96 and he said with a grin..."I''m sorry, good luck." From that point on I basically knew I was in trouble. Unfortunately, like some people I but more vehicle than I could really afford, so with the high payments I was really worried about repairs. It had problems from the onset. Noises from the front end, electrical problems in the interior lighting which would kill the battery. The ABS light and Check Engine light were on frequently. I would like to know how to kill these "Dealership" lights. I call them that because when they come on the Dealership takes my money. It''s a poor investment overall and I''m dissapointed I purchased the vehicle. I have 93,450 miles on it now and wish it had some resale value. My 90 Toyota Corrola is so much better mechanically. Although its unfair to compare the two types of vehicles, for the money, the Toyota was a far better investment. Strengths: Nice styling, high profile is nice. Four wheel drive has been reliable. Weaknesses: Electrical system. Brakes. Transmission. Front suspension. Maintenance costs. Reviewed by: Liz , from Hudson, MA Model/Year: 1997 Chevrolet Blazer LS Price Paid: $20000 at local dealership Summary: JUNK ON WHEELS...or should I say, junk falling off wheels. The repair costs for this sorry-excuse-of-a-vehicle are astronomical. I am facing over $3,000 in repairs THIS MONTH. I''m only at 82,000 miles right now. Look for the following: * fuel pump replacement * complete replacement of front brakes * front-end overhaul (ties, rods, etc.) * 4WD doesn''t engage * no heat * windshield wiper motor replacement * fuel gauge broken I''m sure I''m missing something. It''s hard to keep track. It''s unbelievable. I filed a report at Chevrolet (waste of time). STAY CLEAR OF THESE VEHICLES. Strengths: N-O-N-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Weaknesses: ...in every square inch. The Flintstones had better quality transportation than I do. OK, now that I have your attention. Go check out the reviews on Blazers vs. the other options and let me know if you can still find a reason to buy it. Not all the reviews there are bad , just most of them.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 2:06:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2002 2:12:06 AM EDT by NH2112]
Luavul, Who takes the time to write a review/report of their vehicle when it [b]doesn't[/b] give them problems? Could there be a little bit of exaggeration or hyperbole going on? That's why I take these reports with a grain of salt, and recommend that other people do too. 2 guys at work have 96-up Blazers, and neither of them have had any major problems. One had a wiper motor burn up (pretty expensive wiper motors!), and the other has a persistent rattle in the front end, even after ball joints, tie rod ends, etc, were replaced. It still handles great, 4WD works, etc, and other than that, no problems. Some excerpts: Liz from Hudson MA says she needs the fuel pump replaced. Well, if she's ike most women I know, her fuel level constantly hovers around E and she probably ran it out of gas and burned up the in-tank electric pump. She also mentions needing a complete front brake replacement. She probably [b]didn't[/b] have all the required work done on her brakes at 35K, 50K, or whatever - I'd bet she told the guy at Midas or the dealership to just put a new set of pads on and she'd take it - and now that her rotors are deeply grooved or warped, the calipers seized, etc, she's angry.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:07:20 AM EDT
YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!!!! I have had two blazers before, and one currently, and they have been great. This area is blazer heaven, and most of them have never seen the repair shop. The price is the best thing, because if I look at the toyotas and Nissans, the price goes out of sight. Has anyone got anything good to say about them? I may just have to keep my old one and save for a better deal on a foreign job. Thanks for the replies..fullclip
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:10:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2002 4:11:46 AM EDT by fullclip]
Originally Posted By LngBchAR15: how about suzuki samurai?
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incomming raid, DUCK!!!!!! [-=(_)=-]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:58:02 AM EDT
Jeep, Jeep, Jeep! Not the new "Liberties", but he old Chreokees. Look around and get a good used one with low milage. I've got a 95 Cherokee Sport 4X4 with over 220,000 miles on it. Still runs like a top and has never let me down. Believe me, these things take a licking and keep on ticking!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:13:30 AM EDT
Gotta agree on the Jeep. Mine has 220K on it right now. I've replaced the tires, a water pump (actually just a gasket failure, but replaced the pump since I was in there) and it has a loose/rattling exaust mount under the passenger floor board, but everything on it runs top notch. Besides, they're the original 4x4.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:25:54 AM EDT
I have to strongly recommend the Ford Explorer, and I have good reason. On December 12 my wife and I were hit head on by a drunk driver in a 2001 Mustang while we were in our 96 Eddie Bauer Explorer, the combined impact was approximately 130mph. Both vehicles were totaled but we walked away with only mild injuries, we were treated and released the same night, however the occupants of the Mustang did not fair so well the driver broke her lower leg and the passenger (her 7 year old daughter) had a terrible open fracture of the femur requiring treatment in a trauma center. I would bet my life on an Explorer thats why I replaced mine with a nearly identical XLT. Jake
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:31:10 AM EDT
an SUV just to take you to work? Overkill. Sorry, I just think SUVs aren't the best drive-my-ass-to-work-and-back vehicle. But then.. I drive the anti-SUV... the Honda Insight. :)
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 7:41:45 AM EDT
I've got a 1994 S-10 Blazer LT. Bought brand new in May 1994, one of the last 94's as the 95's were out. Tahoe package, 4x4, electronic dash, p/w, p/l, automatic transmission, bucket seats, P235-75R15 tires. Cost about $24,000. Still runs good at 170,000 miles. (However, the AM radio doesn't get anything in while the engine is running.) I have changed the oil every 3-6,ooo miles. [b]Repair Summary:[/b] New alternator (under warrenty, free). New fuel pump (under warranty, free). [b]Warranty expired,:[/b] Another new fuel pump $500 installed with chevy lifetime warranty (dealer). Transmission gave up: $1200 installed. (60,000 miles) Battery $60 Sending unit leaked (This is what the fuel pump mounts on, dealer broke seal on one of the lines, said not covered by warranty. I fixed myself after I dropped gas tank, had part braized). Odometer (electronic) doesn't work most of the time, but when it does come on it is correct. Suicide deer last fall, took out drivers side. Insurance paid for new door & stuff (about $1500 worth of damage), I had complete paint job cost me an extra $1800. Also had spare tire rack on rear removed, now carry (slightly smaller P205-70R15) spare tire inside. Remote oil filter lines leak somewhat. (The oil filter doesn't fit where it usually goes because of the 4x4 transfer case, it was relocated to under the hood and uses hydraulic line). About $300 for the part to fix this, waiting until it fails completely. Other stuff: replaced heater core, converted A/C to new gas, spark plugs, about 3 sets of tires, regular service stuff.. Bluebook value: Less than $2500. Cost for me to replace with comparable vehicle: $10,000. I plan to drive this until the motor gives up, then buy a long block. Gets between 18 and 20 MPG. Very short turning radius. Can see over most cars on the road, except those bigger SUV's like the Navigator (now that thing is huge!). - - So, if you can find one in decent shape, sure there are some problems with them. If you get the 97, you will save (actually not spend) $3500. But you may need to spend some of this for future problems as they arise (but the 1-year warranty is cool). If you get the 99, there may still be some problems. Is there a warranty? If not, I'd go with the warranty unless it looks bad. I bought a 96 Grand Am with a good warranty, took it in after 6 months and they made sure they found A LOT of things wrong with it. The dealer wasn't paying for the repairs, the warranty company is. Make sure you get it back into the shop for warranty work before it is up. My warranty of the Grand Am was $1200. They repaired $3000 of stuff, most of which I would of never thought bad. At least it made me feel good about buying the warranty! Blackie
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:13:13 AM EDT
i'm with you M1QJ, SUVs are a f*cking waste of steel, crude oil, and space. if you really need an SUV to get you to work, i just have to ask, where the hell do you work? is your place of emloyment located offroad somewhere? perhaps the desert or a mountain top? my honda accord goes offroad more than 90% of the blazers or exploders you see clogging up the roads. really it is not what you have, it is how you use it. as long as you have decent ground clearance and you maintain enough foreward momentum to get through the rough spots, you can get a car pretty much ANYWHERE. trust me, i have proved this time and again. sorry if i sound like i am ranting, but i try to do what i can to keep people from wasting money and resources on something like an SUV. they are wasteful and clumsy. im no tree hugger, but i hate seeing how this entire country doesnt even think twice about WASTING so many of our recources. in 75 years when crude oil costs $80 per gallon because we were too stupid to quit burning it like it was going out of style, we will all be scratching our heads and wondering how we will keep our aircraft flying or how we are gonna make the plastics and polymers and various oil based chemicals that used to be so useful. America is already the most wasteful and energy inefficent country on the planet. lets try not to make it any worse. -Spaceman sorry, i know im stepping on toes here, but it has to be said
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:21:33 AM EDT
Ar_Black: Damn, your truck is identical to what I picked up this spring (well, my parents bought it for me using up most of my savings account) for $5200 with 83k on it. I get to see it for the first time (not counting pictures) next Friday when I get home from college. Why'd you have the tire carrier removed off the back? Kharn
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:26:50 AM EDT
Whatever you do, BUY AMERICAN! Instead of sending your hard earned cash overseas.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:31:58 AM EDT
Kharn: It looks cool on the back, but everytime you want to get in the back for something, you have to swing the tire carrier open. Also, my cover on the tire was trashed. I guess I just wanted something different. Now that the tire is inside, there is much less room to haul crap. Always a trade off. But for hauling stuff, I can borrow a full-size panel van or a pickup. Anyone want to buy the carrier?
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:38:37 AM EDT
Do you really think you send money overseas?
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:39:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:40:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2002 8:44:40 AM EDT by SP10]
Damn, anybody else get a whiff of "liberal" in here? Don't you little rice burner lovers know we buy SUVs just to p!ss you off? Anyhow, another vote to skip on the late 1990s Blaser. My wife's '98 was problematic and is now long gone. Meanwhile, I'll haul my butt home tonight in a full size chevy 4X4 and love every resource wasting minute of it![:P]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:43:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2002 8:48:38 AM EDT by Dirk_Pitt]
"Do you really think you send money overseas?" Unless the foreign car manufacturers have moved their corporate headquarters to the US. In that case I retract my previous statement. Meantime I'll keep driving my evil gas guzzling Ford SUV... Dirk out...
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:55:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2002 8:58:00 AM EDT by M1QJ]
Originally Posted By SP10: Damn, anybody else get a whiff of "liberal" in here? Don't you little rice burner lovers know we buy SUVs just to p!ss you off? Meanwhile, I'll haul my butt home tonight in a full size chevy 4X4 and love every resource wasting minute of it![:P]
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Well, when our children are saying "shit, I have to refill my oxygen tanks... I wish our parents were more conservation minded" I'm not a big treehugger either, but we Americans sure are some WASTEFUL people. Some of us choose not to be. It has nothing to do with liberalism. I like the Hybrid technology, and I know it can be better. I also love going 600+ miles on 10.5 gallons of gas. I like it that I'm not contributing to poor air quality. I like lauging at gas guzzling people pumping 30 Gallons into their oversized beasts. When gas prices go up, I'm still using less than $20 worth A MONTH. To me, it's like seeing a 400lb fat person gorging themselves at a buffet, eating more than they need. That'll catch up to them in the end. The industry needs to catch up. I'm sure they could make all the huge SUVs you'd want, that get outstanding gas mileage, and pollute much less than they do now. You CAN have your cake and eat it too, but the car makers need to step up. I'm not saying you can't get an SUV, I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to. THOSE would be 'liberal' comments. I'm just saying I don't like your choice, I don't agree with wastefulness. It costs all of us in the long run. We have one Earth, one chance, and our children and their children's children have to deal with our actions. This is why I believe in our 2nd Amendment rights, because our children, or our children's children might have serious NEED of it someday... Chew on that.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 8:55:23 AM EDT
haha that is the first time i have EVER been called a liberal. what a wierd feeling. no dude, im no liberal. if someone tried to ban SUVs, id be right next to all of you defending your right to own them. im just voicing my opinion on something i feel strongly about. excercizing my first amendment rights and whatnot. if you NEED an SUV, then by all means, get one. if you dont need one however, i suggest something else. use your head man. this isnt a political thing. it is just planning for the future. -Spaceman
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:07:46 AM EDT
Gee, how did you 2 guys know I was referring to you????? Did I step on your little toesies? Sorry but it had to be said! (now where did I read that gibberish before?) I love it how you think you know what other people need and want. I hear a lot of the same tripe from the left side of the aisle. Tell me, did you guys identify with Owl Gore and his environmental whacko policies? Maybe the shoe is uncomfortably close to fitting.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:18:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SP10: Gee, how did you 2 guys know I was referring to you????? Did I step on your little toesies? Sorry but it had to be said! (now where did I read that gibberish before?) I love it how you think you know what other people need and want. I hear a lot of the same tripe from the left side of the aisle. Tell me, did you guys identify with Owl Gore and his environmental whacko policies? Maybe the shoe is uncomfortably close to fitting.
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Gee, I didn't see anyone telling anyone else what to do. They just stated the way they felt about it. Just because someone thinks we could be a little less wasteful doesn't mean they are Al Gore loving tree huggers. Sheesh.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:21:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:45:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By SP10: Gee, how did you 2 guys know I was referring to you????? Did I step on your little toesies? Sorry but it had to be said! (now where did I read that gibberish before?) I love it how you think you know what other people need and want. I hear a lot of the same tripe from the left side of the aisle. Tell me, did you guys identify with Owl Gore and his environmental whacko policies? Maybe the shoe is uncomfortably close to fitting.
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Gee, I didn't see anyone telling anyone else what to do. They just stated the way they felt about it. Just because someone thinks we could be a little less wasteful doesn't mean they are Al Gore loving tree huggers. Sheesh.
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LarryG got it right. Noone's telling anyone what they can't do. Geez. Some of us cry wolf WAY too quickly. Let me put this in terms you'll understand: Guy wants a .50BMG so he can plink tin cans at 25 yards. I think it's overkill, and say he should get a .22. I'm not saying he CAN'T get a .50, I'm not saying .50's should be banned. I'm just saying it might be better if he got something more conservative.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:45:23 AM EDT
I aint a liberal, I just like the Toyota 4 runners and tacomas. I have two. Yes they are expensive. I like them. Nothing wrong with that, free country.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:48:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: Gee, I didn't see anyone telling anyone else what to do. They just stated the way they felt about it. Just because someone thinks we could be a little less wasteful doesn't mean they are Al Gore loving tree huggers. Sheesh.
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It's not that they are calling for new laws, but they are flaming those of you who do drive SUV's and don't really "need" them, and it comes close to [:K]ing. Don't like SUV's? Start your own thread. The man asked a question, so answer it of you can. What they say about the environment is the same as someone bashing firearms. 1. They are severely lacking in facts. 2. They appeal to emotions. 3. They appeal to "fairness". I'd say to go with the newer vehicle if it has to be a Blazer. Otherwise get the Jeep Cherokee or Pre-1999 Grand Cherokee as others have said.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:49:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: I aint a liberal, I just like the Toyota 4 runners and tacomas. I have two. Yes they are expensive. I like them. Nothing wrong with that, free country.
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You're right, Satcong. It's a free country. You have the right to own those vehicles, but I have the right to opine that vehicles like SUVs are wasteful. We all know about opinions here, right? Kinda funny that I've been called a 'liberal' when my opinions are patently 'conservative' huh? LOL (BTW, I had a Tacoma... great little truck!)
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 9:59:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: It's not that they are calling for new laws, but they are flaming those of you who do drive SUV's and don't really "need" them, and it comes close to [:K]ing. Don't like SUV's? Start your own thread. The man asked a question, so answer it of you can. What they say about the environment is the same as someone bashing firearms. 1. They are severely lacking in facts. 2. They appeal to emotions. 3. They appeal to "fairness". I'd say to go with the newer vehicle if it has to be a Blazer. Otherwise get the Jeep Cherokee or Pre-1999 Grand Cherokee as others have said.
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1. lacking in facts? SUVs are not held to higher emissions standards like small cars, so the FACT is that they DO cause more pollution. Their fuel efficiency is poor, meaning more gas per mile, more pollution per mile. The FACT is that pollution causes degraded air quality. FACT is that we all reproduce, and we have children. (not all of us... just think if SteyrAUG had kids... j/k man!) FACT is that our children WILL breathe the air we leave them. FACT is that car manufacturers CAN make cars that are MUCH more efficient. My car is proof. I applaud Ford for working on a Hybrid version of their Escape. Other manufacturers are working on it, and I applaud that, but they need to GET ON IT. 2. Emotions? I just gave you tons of facts. I'm sure I could find comparisons between more efficient vehicles like mine (or smaller commuter vehicles) and SUVs. If concern for our future generations is 'emotion', then so be it. I want to protect our 2nd Amendment right for our future generations... Ooops... is that too emotional?? 3. Fairness? Noone's said it's not FAIR that people own SUVs. Go for it. You have the right to own them, and I reserve the right to not like it much, and laugh at you as you dump $50 worth of gas into it, and still can't go as far as I can on $14 worth. Remember guys, this IS America. We're expressing opinions here. Noone's telling anyone what they can and can't do. With freedom, comes the freedom to disagree. We're excercising that freedom.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:08:37 AM EDT
[beer]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:13:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M1QJ: LarryG got it right. Noone's telling anyone what they can't do. Geez. Some of us cry wolf WAY too quickly. Let me put this in terms you'll understand: Guy wants a .50BMG so he can plink tin cans at 25 yards. I think it's overkill, and say he should get a .22. I'm not saying he CAN'T get a .50, I'm not saying .50's should be banned. I'm just saying it might be better if he got something more conservative.
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That's fine. And that is what you said at first, but then you said:
Well, when our children are saying "shit, I have to refill my oxygen tanks... I wish our parents were more conservation minded"
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Hmmmm. Ridiculous appeal to emotions anyone?
I'm not a big treehugger either, but we Americans sure are some WASTEFUL people.
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Not really. Get the facts. We produce more per capita with less than any nation on the earth. We aren't being threatened with environmental devastation or piles of garbage.
Some of us choose not to be. It has nothing to do with liberalism. I like the Hybrid technology, and I know it can be better. I also love going 600+ miles on 10.5 gallons of gas. I like it that I'm not contributing to poor air quality. I like lauging at gas guzzling people pumping 30 Gallons into their oversized beasts. When gas prices go up, I'm still using less than $20 worth A MONTH.
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I like effeciency too. I don't like paying tons of $$$ to keep my house 68 all summer. I do it to save money, not the earth. There is absolutely no hard evidence that keeping my house at 68 will harm the environment. Besides, what do you do if you need to get stuff from Point A to Point B? I know keeping a SUV on the road is more expensive than a go-cart, but practicality is a huge factor. It can't be ignored.
To me, it's like seeing a 400lb fat person gorging themselves at a buffet, eating more than they need. That'll catch up to them in the end.
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Obviously large vehicles serve more purpose than large people. This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. Is my Jeep going to die of a heart attack? Should we look at the worst violators (semi trucks) with scorn? No.
The industry needs to catch up. I'm sure they could make all the huge SUVs you'd want, that get outstanding gas mileage, and pollute much less than they do now. You CAN have your cake and eat it too, but the car makers need to step up.
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You have obviously bought into the naive notion that such things already exists, or that carmakers have somthing to gain by refusing to make better cars. Sheer lunacy.
I'm not saying you can't get an SUV, I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to. THOSE would be 'liberal' comments.
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How benevolent of you! Were you just trying to be provacative? or a [:K]? Are you saying that "We are a wasteful nation", and "...need an SUV" aren't liberal comments? cont...
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:14:32 AM EDT
I'm just saying I don't like your choice, I don't agree with wastefulness. It costs all of us in the long run. We have one Earth, one chance, and our children and their children's children have to deal with our actions. This is why I believe in our 2nd Amendment rights, because our children, or our children's children might have serious NEED of it someday... Chew on that.
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Aaaaaaaaaaa! Is this some sort of Algore threat? It is liberalism at it's best, except for the 2nd amendment part. But guns are necessary to control populations aren't they? But seriously, are you thinking that the point of the 2A is to protect the Earth? What are you going to do? Go eco-terrorist on us? Sorry for the flamewar [b]fullclip[/b]. Get the car that fits your needs.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:14:55 AM EDT
Damn, I wish I had the lyrics to the "Yugo" song that Rush occasionally plays[:D]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:15:03 AM EDT
im not trolling bro. he asked what type of suv he should get and i told him what kind is best. the kind that isn't an suv. your vehicle doesnt have to be top heavy and overweight to go off road. it is all how you use what you have. if he doesnt have sh*tloads of cash to throw at a vehicle, it is more practical to get a car from a monetary standpoint alone. the beauty of freedom is that we all dont have to think alike. -Spaceman by the way SP10, the Al Gore thing cracked me up. al gore is a human wasteland. the fact that he got half the popular vote in this country scares me that you will ever know.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:15:54 AM EDT
if you're bitching about suv's wasting gas... You'd better not be driving for anything other than work, or emergencies. I own a ford explorer and get under 15mpg, but i only have to fill it up every month and a half cause I dont drive it a lot. Yet I know people who own little toy cars that get 30mpg that use more gas than mine does. SUV's aren't the problem... people driving around for no reason (or dumb reasons) are your problem. No matter if it's in a geo metro or an excursion. Go gripe about them, not SUV owners.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:35:14 AM EDT
Man, some of you guys are SO damn defensive. Calling everyone who disagrees with you or expresses an opinion you take offense to a 'liberal' I have concern for the future and for my children, that makes me a liberal. I have concern for the environment, that makes me a liberal. I think it's wasteful to drive a vehicle that gets rediculously LOW mileage and I'm a liberal? Let me ask you this: If the SUV you own came with an option that reduced the emissions and gave better gas mileage, would you buy it, or would you stick with a less efficient model? I think most of us would opt for the more efficient model.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:42:55 AM EDT
1. They are severely lacking in facts. 2. They appeal to emotions. 3. They appeal to "fairness". --------------------------------------- No, I am talking about your assumptions: Assumption: The earth is rapidly running out of oil. Fact: There are known/proven reserves of over 200 years still in the ground. This figure is derived at current consumption + 3%/year. Proven reserves have increased from 50 years during the 80's to their present level. It has been estimated that we only know about 1/4 of existing recoverable oil. Assumption: The air quality is getting worse. Fact: The air quality has been steadily improving since the mid-70's. Technology is being widely used today to nearly eliminate the long-term effects of car exhaust. The atmosphere itself contains the conditions to eliminate carbon monoxide, hydrogen sulfide, and other by products of combustion. Assumption: Our children will breathe the air we leave. Fact: Trees, the ocean, dirt, and the sun all filter contaminates out of the air. Volcanoes spew hundreds of times more pollution every year than humans do. Volcanoes are erupting all the time. The contaminates are being taken care of naturally. Assumption: The earth is fragile Fact: While individual species are more or less fragile, the ecosystem is not. Prince William sound is pristine once again, Yellowstone is green and growing, and even Mount St. Helens is a nursery for natural growth. Assumption: SUV's create more pollution. Fact: SUV's create no more pollution per gallon burned than any other car. Assumption: SUV's are dangerous. Fact: SUV's are far safer than smaller cars. Collisions with wild animals can kill the driver of a car, but this rarely happens in an SUV. In collisions with other cars, passengers fare OK, but in SUV vs. SUV collisions, passengers fare better. Rollover doesn't happen very often, and is caused nearly 100% of the time by driver error. Passengers who are belted in rarely suffer any serious injuries. Anyhow, I could go on, but I don't have any more time. Sure SUV's are more expensive, but so is cable TV, big houses, Colt AR15's, match ammo, taxes, and (suprise suprise!) passenger cars such as the Honda line of vehicles.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:48:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M1QJ: Let me ask you this: If the SUV you own came with an option that reduced the emissions and gave better gas mileage, would you buy it, or would you stick with a less efficient model? I think most of us would opt for the more efficient model.
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No I wouldn't. It is currently impossible to build an SUV that can haul all my stuff, has 250 HP/ 350 ft. Lbs of Torque, has 4wd, is heavy enough, and is cheap enough. Most SUV's offer a 4cyl package. It is NOT popular, and the mileage is not all that much better than the bigger alternatives.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 11:04:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: Assumption: SUV's create more pollution. Fact: SUV's create no more pollution per gallon burned than any other car.
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I hate to call you on that, but BS. My vehicle is rated ULEV. (Ultra Low Emissions Vehicles) In many states, my vehicle WILL NOT EVEN REGISTER on emissions testing equipment. Other vehicles (some other Hondas) are rated LEV. SUVs and trucks have been held to MUCH lower standards. I am willing to venture, my car will put out about 1% of the pollution that a Suburban will, gallon per gallon. Given that my vehicle gets about 4 times better fuel efficiency, mile per mile, the little amount of pollutants is even more minimized. SUVs are safer, sure. If you're the one IN them. They are far more dangerous to everyone who doesn't happen to be in one. Not everyone can pony up for the largest vehicle available. Sure, we have oil reserves that could last us another 200 years. Does that mean we should burn it up as fast as we can?? If the air is getting better/cleaner, does that mean that we should just wantonly pollute it more? Why then to CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards keep getting raised? Volcanoes? Yeah, like we can prevent those. We CAN however reduce our contribution. Those comments seem like the 'fuck it, we're going to burn anyway' attitude. Some of us don't agree with it, but you're welcome to it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 11:10:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf:
Originally Posted By M1QJ: Let me ask you this: If the SUV you own came with an option that reduced the emissions and gave better gas mileage, would you buy it, or would you stick with a less efficient model? I think most of us would opt for the more efficient model.
View Quote
No I wouldn't. It is currently impossible to build an SUV that can haul all my stuff, has 250 HP/ 350 ft. Lbs of Torque, has 4wd, is heavy enough, and is cheap enough. Most SUV's offer a 4cyl package. It is NOT popular, and the mileage is not all that much better than the bigger alternatives.
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Torf, They're currently working on full size SUVs that are a combination of V8 and electric motors. If you didn't know, Electric motors get more torque when they start than gasoline engines do. I think it was Chrysler that was developing a hybrid electric/deisel pickup, that would use the electric motors to start the vehicle moving, then the diesel would take over after it got to about 15-20mph. Diesels are the least efficient when they are idling or accelerating a vehicle, but can be VERY efficient when they're running at speed. If you think this is a joke, check out the Toyota Hybrid, the Prius. That little car puts out about 230ft lb of torque. Car companies are moving to these technologies. Estimates are that in 2010, 500,000 hybrid vehicles will be sold. That's not a whole lot out of the 16 million that get sold per yer, but it's an improvement.
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