Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 5/9/2002 7:44:42 AM EDT
Anyone catch the blip on the news about that mailbox bomber... that they located him using the gps (locator) built into his cell phone? I got a new phone from sprint a couple months back and it has this same 'service' in it. Sounds like a disservice to me... especially all of the marketing junk that will soon follow. Nuke
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 7:52:41 AM EDT
Read the articles again, please. They didn't use any built-in GPS locators, but triangulated his position between a number of cell phone relais towers.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 7:53:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2002 7:54:42 AM EDT by NUCULAR]
I didn't read an article. Saw it on CNN this AM, but you are right. All it says online is Authorities located Helder by tracking a pair of cellular phone calls he made to friends in Minnesota, said Washoe County Sheriff Dennis Balaam. strange. must have been misinformation this am. that's weird for cnn ;)
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 9:47:51 AM EDT
They claim to have TRIANGULATED! Good grief, GPS locator??? Can you say paranoid? Besides, I don't even believe they triangulated. A motorist spotted him and called the cops and the chase was on. I think they just spouted that triangulation crap just to wierd people out and make the paranoid. It apparently worked.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 9:55:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: They claim to have TRIANGULATED! Good grief, GPS locator??? Can you say paranoid? Besides, I don't even believe they triangulated. A motorist spotted him and called the cops and the chase was on. I think they just spouted that triangulation crap just to wierd people out and make the paranoid. It apparently worked.
View Quote
I don't beleive the crap about a GPS receiver but I beleive that your postion can be triangulaed using several towers. It's pretty simple if they look at signal strength at three or more sites.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 9:58:22 AM EDT
Tinfoil Hat time
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:03:35 AM EDT
Paranoid? It is all true... to recieve a call on your "hand-held radio", the system must know where you are. The phone sends a signal to the tower and says hello, the tower says if I get anything, I know where you are. Very easy to interrogate the system and say you were near tower 5249, now you are near 8659....you must be driving down I30......GPS----soon it will be required BY LAW........
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:06:34 AM EDT
Trianglation usually involves 3 portable directional antenna receivers. From each location they get a direction to the signal. The location of the receiver is then plotted on the map and a line drawn from that point in the direction of the signal is made. By doing this from two or more locations, the transmitter will be found where the lines intersect.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:09:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2002 10:11:10 AM EDT by gunham]
In reply to hound's question. The tower just knows that it can hear you. It also knows how well it can hear you. It does not know if you are north, south, east or west of it. When they get the GPS's built into the phones, then the phone will send your GPS corridinates to the company.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:11:21 AM EDT
Every time you make a cell phone call, it is recorded which relay tower handled the call. As you move along with your cell phone, it leaps from tower to tower, indicating the direction of your movement. This info was used in the Walker Railey Attempted Murder Trial in Dallas to show that when the preacher said he was calling from the SMU library, he was actually calling from a location near to his house, and the scene of his wife's attempted murder. Eric The(Ain'tSkeered)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:13:38 AM EDT
Check out my thread Mailbox Bomber Helder's Cell Phone Led FBI To Him [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=115365[/url]
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:17:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2002 10:21:53 AM EDT by gunham]
We had a case where a woman was locked in her trunk by car jackers and left on the side of the road. She mad a cell phone call from the trunk. The cops knew what tower, but their technique of finding the car was to drive around until they found it. Yes, the phone company can tell what tower the phone is using.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:21:16 AM EDT
P.S. 100 percent of the phone calls both local and long distance are logged with the source, destination, and length. The actual conversation is not recorded by the phone companies, but the FBI/CIA have the ability to monitor and record the conversation. Phone companies only monitor conversations when they are trying to locate a problem.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:22:43 AM EDT
LarryG- It's not paranoia at all. Triangulating has been possible for a while and new phones are shipping with this locating ability- btw - This is my phone : http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/prod/hhcommerce/telecommunications/n300_explore.jsp you will notice that it says 'America's first GPS phone'. I have the ability to turn the locator off in my menu but it specifically says i cannot turn it off for 911 services (which also implies...). It looks like this functionality isn't available everywhere but it is in some major cities and they are working on expanding it. The following is directly out of the manual: Services America's First GPS Enabled Wireless Phone Designed to Support Location Based Services of the Future. Imagine having a phone that can use GPS technology to provide you with....  Driving directions  Traffic service  Entertainment/services location  911 emergency location services  Location of family/friends Location services for 911 calls are not currently available. While these services are not available today (or) (are still under development), this leading edge phone has the technology required to support such network based services upon their launch. I may be paranoid but that doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:25:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: They claim to have TRIANGULATED! Good grief, GPS locator??? Can you say paranoid? Besides, I don't even believe they triangulated. A motorist spotted him and called the cops and the chase was on. I think they just spouted that triangulation crap just to wierd people out and make the paranoid. It apparently worked.
View Quote
Ladies and gentleman this is [b]not[/b] BS. I just got a promo insert about a new Audiovox phone yesterday (I work for verizon wireless) that has a GPS reciver built into it that is supposed to work with the new E911 systems that are springing up everywhere. These systems will locate your butt pretty much anywhere in a town with a digital network. Granted, this is not how they caught the smiley bomber, but you can bet the feds will all about using it to track 'suspects'. The triangulation of cell towers to locate a specific cell phone is hardly speculation... we do it all the time in our test procedures. No tinfoil hats required, this is reality. [(:)]
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:50:55 AM EDT
Yes it is reality, so if you don't want them to know where you are, use a pay phone.... [;D]
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 11:06:18 AM EDT
Gunham...I wasn't really asking a question---just adding more info to the discussion...check out my e-mail....I am familiar with cell-phones.....hehehe
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 11:35:53 AM EDT
GPS for 911 is definately under developement. There was a lady a few years ago (IIRC) who wrecked over an enbankment. She used a cell phone to call for help, then passed out. They located her by being able to hear sirens over her phone when a cruiser passed nearby. They got all the cars to stop, and sound their sirens one by one, to find out which one was near her. GPS or tower triangulation is MUCH EASIER than that method.... Scott
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 11:44:30 AM EDT
can you hear me now? can you hear me now?
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 11:46:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gunham: Trianglation usually involves 3 portable directional antenna receivers. From each location they get a direction to the signal. The location of the receiver is then plotted on the map and a line drawn from that point in the direction of the signal is made. By doing this from two or more locations, the transmitter will be found where the lines intersect.
View Quote
Yes directional antennas will pinpoint a location but a general location could be obtained by observing the towers used to make several calls. If the cells phone connects to different towers for several calls you could look at the overlap of the coverage areas to the determine area where the calls are coming from.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 11:48:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NUCULAR: LarryG- [blue]It's not paranoia at all. [/blue] {skipping down} [red]I may be paranoid [/red]but that doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
View Quote
I do this all the time too!
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 12:37:57 PM EDT
My parents car has GPS.... any time I feel like I can call a phone number and give them the pass word.. viola.. I know exactly where the car is. Now my girl want to to get a car with the same service. Its for her peace of mind..... yeah NO "viola" is NOT the password.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 12:49:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2002 12:52:04 PM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By gt6plus: Yes it is reality, so if you don't want them to know where you are, use a pay phone.... [;D]
View Quote
ahhh.... I don't think works like that. Even on a land line, they can figure out where the phone call originated, and contrary to what you see in the movies and TV, even if you hang-up real fast it is still possible.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 12:51:43 PM EDT
As others have noted, the technology has been out for a while now. However, remember that it will only track you if the phone is ON or if you are currently using it. Any phone that's off isn't looking for a signal from the tower.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 12:56:35 PM EDT
Anything that puts out a signal can be triangulated. This is nothing new. The Brits started using the triangulation method of HFDF (High Frequency Direction Finding) against the Germans in WWII. It's not diabolical - it's just a matter of having the right receiving equipment to determine the direction of transmission. With cell phones, the towers can be used to give a generalized location. Do I think that folks need to worry that they are being tracked? No. Not unless you're a moronic pipe-bomber and have attracted the attention of law enforcement. Another thing though that cell phone users may want to consider is that if ANYONE wants to listen to your cell conversation, it's just a matter of dropping by the local Radio Shack and picking up the equipment to do it. Something to consider before passing your credit card number or other sensitive information over your cell. It really isn't anything more than a sophisticated walkie-talkie.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 1:19:56 PM EDT
Some newer cellular systems divide the area around an antenna array into sectors, say maybe six sectors. A cetain bandwidth is allocated to a sector. If a sector's bandwidth requirement increases the area of the sector is decreased and other sector's increasd to effectively increase the bandwidth available to a given area while preserving the total bandwidth of a given antenna array.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 1:31:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gt6plus: Yes it is reality, so if you don't want them to know where you are, use a pay phone.... [;D]
View Quote
Actually, if they're waiting on the other end, they can trace your pay phone call. Didn't you learn anything from [i]Enemy of the State[/i]? I don't know how long it takes for them to trace it, but if they suspect [b]where[/b] you're going to call, they'll be there waiting![:)]
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 3:41:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChuckT:
Originally Posted By gt6plus: Yes it is reality, so if you don't want them to know where you are, use a pay phone.... [;D]
View Quote
Actually, if they're waiting on the other end, they can trace your pay phone call. Didn't you learn anything from [i]Enemy of the State[/i]? I don't know how long it takes for them to trace it, but if they suspect [b]where[/b] you're going to call, they'll be there waiting![:)]
View Quote
Yes, there's much to learn from that movie - they're the ones that "outed" the covert NSA hitmen!
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 3:52:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By quietshoez: can you hear me now? can you hear me now?
View Quote
God I hate that.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 3:57:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno: Another thing though that cell phone users may want to consider is that if ANYONE wants to listen to your cell conversation, it's just a matter of dropping by the local Radio Shack and picking up the equipment to do it. Something to consider before passing your credit card number or other sensitive information over your cell. It really isn't anything more than a sophisticated walkie-talkie.
View Quote
You obviously don't live where there's digital service. I'd like to see the Radio Shack bill for the equip you'd need to decode CDMA!
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 3:59:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
Originally Posted By gt6plus: Yes it is reality, so if you don't want them to know where you are, use a pay phone.... [;D]
View Quote
ahhh.... I don't think works like that. Even on a land line, they can figure out where the phone call originated, and contrary to what you see in the movies and TV, even if you hang-up real fast it is still possible.
View Quote
Not only that, they can know before it is answered. How do you think caller ID works?
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 4:08:32 PM EDT
Christmas 1999, I was in Omaha for my company's annual Christmas Party. My coworker and I had the exact same pager, with nationwide service, neither one was receiving pages at our hotel. We called the provider and they said, "yes we have you locted at such and such in Omaha, for some reason, we have been having problems in that area." From that point on, we both knew we could be tracked by any interested party. But, as the Hulkster says "Wacha gonna do?" WL
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 9:00:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChuckT:
Originally Posted By gt6plus: Yes it is reality, so if you don't want them to know where you are, use a pay phone.... [;D]
View Quote
Actually, if they're waiting on the other end, they can trace your pay phone call. Didn't you learn anything from [i]Enemy of the State[/i]? I don't know how long it takes for them to trace it, but if they suspect [b]where[/b] you're going to call, they'll be there waiting![:)]
View Quote
Not sure how much of your post is tongue-in-cheek, but . . . the "trace" is instantaneous. When you place a call, the switch logs the originating phone and receiving phone at the time that the call is placed. All of the nonsense about "oooooh, it takes exactly two minute to trace the call, you're safe if you hang up before that!" is just Hollyweird, like holding pistols sideways or explosions with rings around them.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 9:42:19 PM EDT
First, If you want to not be traced, thats easy. Just get Cingular. Hell you cant get a signal half the time, calls are dropped all the time, so they CANT know exactly where you are, they can kinda guess where you were in the last hour or so...... Second, They have been able to read what tower you are on for a LONG time..... Lastly, I agree on the enemy of the state paranoia...If you use anything electronic, expect to be....detectable..... Just because your paranoid......
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:12:53 PM EDT
Another thing though that cell phone users may want to consider is that if ANYONE wants to listen to your cell conversation, it's just a matter of dropping by the local Radio Shack and picking up the equipment to do it. Something to consider before passing your credit card number or other sensitive information over your cell. It really isn't anything more than a sophisticated walkie-talkie.
View Quote
This is true with older analog phones and old scanner models. Digital conversations are not capable of being translated by a scanner into speech without the encoding and decoding information for each device. Scanner frequencies used for analog cell phones were banned by Congress several years ago after they learned that their conversations were being listened to by anyone who wanted to tune in. I got my credit card number stolen several months ago by someone hacking into my computer at work. It hasn't cost me a dime and the most I would be liable for ever is $50.00 and that is only if you don't report it when you first discover the fraudulent use. I don't understand the fear of "using your credit card".
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 5:16:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunbert:
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno: Another thing though that cell phone users may want to consider is that if ANYONE wants to listen to your cell conversation, it's just a matter of dropping by the local Radio Shack and picking up the equipment to do it. Something to consider before passing your credit card number or other sensitive information over your cell. It really isn't anything more than a sophisticated walkie-talkie.
View Quote
You obviously don't live where there's digital service. I'd like to see the Radio Shack bill for the equip you'd need to decode CDMA!
View Quote
Gunbert... I work for Cingulars' Fraud Dept.. TDMA CDMA GSM reg 800MHz... It can all and [b]is[/b] decoded all day every day. about the cost of cracking a CDMA line... about 45 Bucks... It was hard for the first 6 months of the service .. but as soon as the first guy got it on the net . its simply following directions...
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 5:51:41 PM EDT
[img]http://lookinside-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leoXKzCjzbQrEXbh/7UOpEgVw68dCjwF+b9YcC34c24X5Q9/O726GwSxRPO9nzu9uLc=[/img] 10 years ago, under Bush the 1st, our Spec Forces hunted down and killed Pablo Escobar, a notorious drug lord. How'd they do it? Simple. They used a secret command embedded in every cell phone to make Pablo's phone turn itself on WITHOUT PABLO KNOWING, so they could direction find him. Yep, no lights, no vibration, no nothing to tell him it was on and now transmitting. Only safe bet is to pull the battery each time you're done using it.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 8:07:05 PM EDT
this should be easy enough to test, turn your phone off, wait 3 days, turn it on, it the batter is dead, it has probably been on. Recharge, disconnect the battery, wait 3 (or more) days, put batter on, if discharged, 3 days kills a battery, and the first test didn't show you shit. If the battery is full, you know the first test worked. Easy enough WL
Top Top