Posted: 1/3/2011 1:55:10 PM EDT
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Need some help from anyone who knows the auto insurance industry/accident at fault rules.
I was turning left (westbound) from a northbound side street onto a main road with two westbound, two eastbound and one center trun lane. The eastbound lane was stopped and two cars stopped ahead of the street to let me turn left into the left most westbound lande. While turning, another driver (driving eastbound) decided it would be a good idea to use the center turn lane as a thru lane to go around the stopped eastbound cars. We collided as I was inchingmy way out through the turn lane to get into the westbound lane. Westbound traffic was also stopped some distance back at a stoplight. So, I went out because the cars had stopped to let me out. I didn't see the driver driving down the center turn lane and we collided. The cop said she shouldn't be driving down the center turn lane, but I also turned out when I shouldn't have. My fault? Her fault? 50/50? |
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was the other driver using the center lane to get to a left turn further up? How far from the intersection that traffic was stopped and backed up. witnesses? police report? citations?
Depending on all these answers you will get a liabilty determination. I never handled a claim like this in my years of adjusting where one party was ruled neglignece free. |
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Quoted:
Quoted: 50/50 - You failed to properly clear the area, and the other driver improperly used the center lane.
This is it in its simplest form. I'll try to add more later as I work in the industry and should know not to text and drive. J Let alone the whole web surfing while driving thing. |
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Thanks guys.
Officer on scene said he thinks 50/50. I entered the road when I shouldn't have but the impact also should not have occurred as she was driving down the center turn lane when she should not have been. She was going to turn left probably 150 or so yards up. The officer said you cannot enter the turn lane for that intersection until there is the opening in the yellow line just before the stop light. Had she been obeying the law, we would not have collided. Had I not gone when those in the driving lanes let me go, we would not have collided. ETA - I was not texting or web surfing. Doubt she was, but can't be sure. |
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Quoted:
was the other driver using the center lane to get to a left turn further up? How far from the intersection that traffic was stopped and backed up. witnesses? police report? citations? Depending on all these answers you will get a liabilty determination. I never handled a claim like this in my years of adjusting where one party was ruled neglignece free. +1. It depends on how the police report is written and what the other drivers recorded statement is. But if I was handling it I would say your definitely walking away with some liability on you. On a side not always surprised how many adjusters are active on this board. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
was the other driver using the center lane to get to a left turn further up? How far from the intersection that traffic was stopped and backed up. witnesses? police report? citations? Depending on all these answers you will get a liabilty determination. I never handled a claim like this in my years of adjusting where one party was ruled neglignece free. +1. It depends on how the police report is written and what the other drivers recorded statement is. But if I was handling it I would say your definitely walking away with some liability on you. On a side not always surprised how many adjusters are active on this board. No citations. Driver was using the center lane to run left approx 100 - 150 yards ahead. Used center lane to pass stopped vehicles so she did not have to wait to get into the turn lane where the opening is. A witness gave me her number and said she would say that the other driver was improperly using the center lane. However the officer said the witness had to be present. Insurance agent said a phone number was good to have. There were probably 5-6 cars backed up at the stop light, then the street where I turned from. Then probably 4-5 more cars behind the ones who let me in. The other driver went around the stopped cars to get to the intersection ahead faster. We hit when she passed the other cars and the ones who let me in. Here is my terrible attempt to reconstruct the scene. 
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Quoted:
Thanks guys. Officer on scene said he thinks 50/50. I entered the road when I shouldn't have but the impact also should not have occurred as she was driving down the center turn lane when she should not have been. She was going to turn left probably 150 or so yards up. The officer said you cannot enter the turn lane for that intersection until there is the opening in the yellow line just before the stop light. Had she been obeying the law, we would not have collided. Had I not gone when those in the driving lanes let me go, we would not have collided. ETA - I was not texting or web surfing. Doubt she was, but can't be sure. Don't blame others. They are not responsible for making sure the lane is clear before you entered it. 50/50 |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
was the other driver using the center lane to get to a left turn further up? How far from the intersection that traffic was stopped and backed up. witnesses? police report? citations? Depending on all these answers you will get a liabilty determination. I never handled a claim like this in my years of adjusting where one party was ruled neglignece free. +1. It depends on how the police report is written and what the other drivers recorded statement is. But if I was handling it I would say your definitely walking away with some liability on you. On a side not always surprised how many adjusters are active on this board. No citations. Driver was using the center lane to run left approx 100 - 150 yards ahead. Used center lane to pass stopped vehicles so she did not have to wait to get into the turn lane where the opening is. A witness gave me her number and said she would say that the other driver was improperly using the center lane. However the officer said the witness had to be present. Insurance agent said a phone number was good to have. There were probably 5-6 cars backed up at the stop light, then the street where I turned from. Then probably 4-5 more cars behind the ones who let me in. The other driver went around the stopped cars to get to the intersection ahead faster. We hit when she passed the other cars and the ones who let me in. Here is my terrible attempt to reconstruct the scene. http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af115/bjkb1f/Wreck-1.jpg Nice diagram. Still 50/50. |
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Insurance loves multiple fault, so they can raise both parties' rates. Not really true. We decide on who is at fault if both parties have negligence then its comparative negligence. Way way easier to accept liability or deny then explain to Susie Q your paying 40% of damages and rental costs we will cover the rest. Or at least thats my experience in handling claims for the last decade. If someone is at fault I accept liability if not I deny and if both share some portion then liability on both. If a company is making it a policy to assign liability on both parties to raise rates I would feel comfortable saying the Dept of Insurance would likely hand out such an ass chewing and fines it would negate anything they would gain. |
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Thats what I'm thinking. I know I contributed to the collision. We were both in the wrong I think. I am not blaming her. I am just asking for opinions from those in the industry. Thanks all. Depending on who your carrier is and who hers is I could see this going to arbitration between the companies and I would bet they say 50-50 or so. Some companies and specific adjusters are jack asses about accepting liability in comparative negligence case its really very hard to say which way it will go. Especially if it goes to arbitration I've had slam dunk cases in arbitration that they awarded to the other party and some weak ass cases that went my way. I would file your claim get your car fixed and forget about it let the insurance companies fight it out. It doesnt sound like the accident was severe so it shouldnt kill your rates too bad either way. Unless the other party or you were driving a ultra high end vehicle that is gonna take 30K to fix. |
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great diagram.
Here's my take as a prior insurance adjuster and LEO. Had there been a turnout or driveway between your collision scene and the intersection to the east then I would say some of the fault lies with the driver using the center turn lane improperly. Even so, as you are the one entering the main thoroughfare, the majority of fault would lie with you, turning left at the intersection, but she would share a percentage of liability. However - in my state, in order to be considered using the center turn lane improperly, there must be an intersection bypassed. If it's a straight shot to the main intersection to the east, as it looks from your drawing, then the other driver is technically allowed to drive down the turn lane... she just can't pass the first left turn available. That includes private property and driveways. If there isn't one, and it's a straight shot on her part, I think the buck stops with you. Sorry amigo, it sucks when people stop in traffic and wave others out. Tons of wrecks that way. |
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Sorry amigo, it sucks when people stop in traffic and wave others out. Tons of wrecks that way. I dunno about that. Their courtesy didn't cause the accident. sure it did. Not directly, but what's a guy supposed to do? How many times have you/I done it?? Both lanes of traffic stop to let you out, you inch forward trying to see if anything's coming, and you get hit by some soccer mom who doesn't realize that traffic's stopped for a reason??? On paper, it's OP's fault, but people suck at driving. It's just the way it is. If people took the cellpone outta their ear long enough to concentrate on driving, they'd realize that two lanes of traffic left a break for a guy to come out, and wouldn't haul ass straight down the turn lane .... even though by the book, they're in the right. I see it every day. An accident caused by distracted driving, and the person at fault on paper isn't always the one who really caused it. What can you say... |
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50/50. If you have a good lawyer, you might be able to pin it 100% on the other driver.
Here in Kommiefornia you are supposed to turn left into the center lane, then merge right and be on your way. I imagine its something similar where you are. For the other driver, using the center lane as your private expressway is a no-no either. |
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Quoted: This^great diagram. Here's my take as a prior insurance adjuster and LEO. Had there been a turnout or driveway between your collision scene and the intersection to the east then I would say some of the fault lies with the driver using the center turn lane improperly. Even so, as you are the one entering the main thoroughfare, the majority of fault would lie with you, turning left at the intersection, but she would share a percentage of liability. However - in my state, in order to be considered using the center turn lane improperly, there must be an intersection bypassed. If it's a straight shot to the main intersection to the east, as it looks from your drawing, then the other driver is technically allowed to drive down the turn lane... she just can't pass the first left turn available. That includes private property and driveways. If there isn't one, and it's a straight shot on her part, I think the buck stops with you. Sorry amigo, it sucks when people stop in traffic and wave others out. Tons of wrecks that way. Per your diagram, you jumped the shark. You did not have right of way. Sorry. The same thing almost happened to me: Traveling southbound towards an intersection. Two southbound lanes (expanded from one lane) , one lane northbound. This intersection ends at a tee. The southbound left lane had 8-10 cars stopped, waiting to make a left at the red light. This put the exit for a Walgreens drug store blocked off (one could make a right out of the walgreens and go north, but could not make a left out of the walgreens to go south to the light) by the last 3-4 cars in line. I needed to make a right, so I continued in the right hand lane, and some dumbass in a mustang decided to squeeze through or was let through from the walgreens into the southbound line, but not to make a LEFT at the light... in order to make a RIGHT. He was lucky that I just did the brakes on my Jeep. I ended up not seeing pavement or the lower part of his door from over my hood. This could have happened just as easily in mirror image... I would have been driving in the left lane and he would have come from the right. Either way... not my fault. Legal travel in my lane with right of way. The only way I go if somebody wants to let me? Making a right into the right lane after making positive eye contact with the driver that would hit me if he kept moving forward. I've sat, waiting to make a left, while almost every person coming from the right or left wanted me to go. I've put my flashers on and turned off my headlights (I run headlights 24/7) to get the wavers to keep going. I've even had to jingle my keys at them (I keep a spare set in my ashtray) and toss them on my dash to get them to go. You wave another driver through, you risk an at-fault collision. You accept the wave, you risk an at-fault collision.  Right of way is determined by the roadway markings and signals, not by stupid driver hand gestures.YMMV and IMHO  |