Posted: 11/27/2010 10:07:01 AM EDT
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Given the speakers in each diagram are wired to receive all the amp has to give, how do WATTS get distributed? Do they get divided evenly between the speakers or all recieve the same?
A)500 B)? C)? D)? ETA: Question asked and answered, now just general car stereo/equipment discussion... 
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I'm gonna go with 'C' on this...most amps deliver power per channel...ie:to each speaker by itself...so an 80 watt amp driving 4 speakers would give each one 20 watts. Not a multiple choice question, That is what I think as well , but what confirmation |
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and this is where I say Hold on.... You have to factor in the resistance of each speaker. And whether you wire them in series or parallel. We need more Facts. Given each diagram is wired to pull the most. No more info really needed. I am just trying to figure out how watts are distributed..... Let's take A) & B), if A) gets 500, does B) get 500 each or 250 each? (given A & B are wired to produce the same ohm load to the amp) |
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Depends on the amp, and the speakers, terminals used (if any) and impedance rise. If an amp pushes 500w @ 1 ohm, its only gonna do 250 @ 2 ohm and 125 @ 4 ohm (typically.) (ETA - Unless your JL, who sell amps that do 500 @ any impedance, or 1000 @ any impedance) So, the speakers wired into different ohm loads (which, depending on if terminals are used, will impact the final impedance) - They'll see different wattages from the amplifier. Also, impedance rise occurs when subs play. The position of the voice coil changes the speakers impedence. If you're wired to 1 ohm, you may rise to 2.5 ohms, thus affecting the actual power given to the speakers. ETA - To answer your last question, no - The power put out by the amplifier is all its going to put out. One speaker will see 500, two will see 250 ea, four will see 125 each. Providing they all are wired to allow the amp to push 500w. |
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Depends on the amp, and the speakers, terminals used (if any) and impedance rise. If an amp pushes 500w @ 1 ohm, its only gonna do 250 @ 2 ohm and 125 @ 4 ohm (typically.) (ETA - Unless your JL, who sell amps that do 500 @ any impedance, or 1000 @ any impedance) So, the speakers wired into different ohm loads (which, depending on if terminals are used, will impact the final impedance) - They'll see different wattages from the amplifier. Also, impedance rise occurs when subs play. The position of the voice coil changes the speakers impedence. If you're wired to 1 ohm, you may rise to 2.5 ohms, thus affecting the actual power given to the speakers. You type faster than I do 
But yes, this Is what I was getting at. And to simply answer your questions, If everything was wired properly, all speakers should see the same amount of power, being what the amp puts out divided by the total number of speakers. Giving that all the speakers are identical in their parameters. |
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Quoted: Quoted: If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. Yeah, that's the ticket.  |
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Depends on the amp, and the speakers, terminals used (if any) and impedance rise. If an amp pushes 500w @ 1 ohm, its only gonna do 250 @ 2 ohm and 125 @ 4 ohm (typically.) (ETA - Unless your JL, who sell amps that do 500 @ any impedance, or 1000 @ any impedance) So, the speakers wired into different ohm loads (which, depending on if terminals are used, will impact the final impedance) - They'll see different wattages from the amplifier. Also, impedance rise occurs when subs play. The position of the voice coil changes the speakers impedence. If you're wired to 1 ohm, you may rise to 2.5 ohms, thus affecting the actual power given to the speakers. You type faster than I do
But yes, this Is what I was getting at. And to simply answer your questions, If everything was wired properly, all speakers should see the same amount of power, being what the amp puts out divided by the total number of speakers. Giving that all the speakers are identical in their parameters. Thanks guys! I understand all about the different wiring configurations (week long crash course). I just wanted to make sure I understood watt distribution. Yes, I already have the equipment Pioneer GM-5100t Amp - Also have a 15+ year old Lanzar OptiDrivePlus 50 that pushes the subs harder, but can find no info on other than 25Wx2@4 LOL, has to be so under-rated it's not funny. RF P212S8 - Subs I am trying to match everything to maximize thier potential, that is why I am asking. The amp should be putting out (bridged to 2 subs@ 4 ohm) 380Wx1rms/760Wx1max That should be about perfect for the 200Wrms/400Wmax subs. They should each see 190Wrms/380Wmax. |
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your drawings will present a problem. you show only one lead per speaker. There should be two. This makes all the difference.
I'm sure searching through "Car audio and electronics" would inform you of everything. the basic version. the Amplifier can see 2 - 4ohm speakers as 2-4ohms, 1 - 2ohm, or 1 - 8ohm. If you spent 5 mins with a couple speakers, some wire, and a multimeter, you could learn alot in these regards. Bridging an amplifier really translates in one channel pushing, and one channel pulling. so, 250w left, and 250w right in Stereo works into 250w pushing, 250w pulling, making for 500w in bridged. Still 4ohm . Take 2 4ohm speakers hook in stereo, you have 2 4ohm loads, so it's 250w and 250w. Take 2 4ohm speakers, hook them in parallel, amp bridged, you have 2 ohm load.and 1000w. Take 2 4ohm speakers, hook them in series, amp bridged, you have 8ohm load and 250w. Series wiring, the is Amp speaker positive, into speaker1 positive, comes out speaker1 negative, into speaker 2 positive, out speaker 2 positive, into amp speaker negative. Parallel, is Amp speaker positive, into speaker one and speaker two positive, out of speaker one and two negative into amp speaker negative all 4-ohm speaker is my assumption. 250w 2 channel amp, capable of anything for hypothetical answers. a. 500w amp = 250w per channel, 2 channel amp. running bridged is 250 + 250 = 500 W b. 500w amp = 250 watt left channel, 250 watt right channel c. 500w amp = 250w per channel, parallel wiring, presents 2 ohms per channel. = 500w left channel, 500w right channel = amp pushing 1000w d. 500w amp = dont bother, you are cobbling crap together. here is a little good reading that may help all your questions. http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm |
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your drawings will present a problem. you show only one lead per speaker. There should be two. This makes all the difference. I'm sure searching through "Car audio and electronics" would inform you of everything. the basic version. the Amplifier can see 2 - 4ohm speakers as 2-4ohms, 1 - 2ohm, or 1 - 8ohm. If you spent 5 mins with a couple speakers, some wire, and a multimeter, you could learn alot in these regards. Bridging an amplifier really translates in one channel pushing, and one channel pulling. so, 250w left, and 250w right in Stereo works into 250w pushing, 250w pulling, making for 500w in bridged. Still 4ohm . Take 2 4ohm speakers hook in stereo, you have 2 4ohm loads, so it's 250w and 250w. Take 2 4ohm speakers, hook them in parallel, amp bridged, you have 2 ohm load.and 1000w. Take 2 4ohm speakers, hook them in series, amp bridged, you have 8ohm load and 250w. Series wiring, the is Amp speaker positive, into speaker1 positive, comes out speaker1 negative, into speaker 2 positive, out speaker 2 positive, into amp speaker negative. Parallel, is Amp speaker positive, into speaker one and speaker two positive, out of speaker one and two negative into amp speaker negative all 4-ohm speaker is my assumption. 250w 2 channel amp, capable of anything for hypothetical answers. a. 500w amp = 250w per channel, 2 channel amp. running bridged is 250 + 250 = 500 W b. 500w amp = 250 watt left channel, 250 watt right channel c. 500w amp = 250w per channel, parallel wiring, presents 2 ohms per channel. = 500w left channel, 500w right channel = amp pushing 1000w d. 500w amp = dont bother, you are cobbling crap together. here is a little good reading that may help all your questions. http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm Thanks, but I understand most of this^. The drawings and one lead thing, it was just a loose ms paint representation. |
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This whole thing got way too technical for me! Quoted:
and this is where I say Hold on.... You have to factor in the resistance of each speaker. And whether you wire them in series or parallel. We need more Facts. So far, this is the right answer. Can't answer until this is known. 
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your drawings will present a problem. you show only one lead per speaker. There should be two. This makes all the difference. I'm sure searching through "Car audio and electronics" would inform you of everything. the basic version. the Amplifier can see 2 - 4ohm speakers as 2-4ohms, 1 - 2ohm, or 1 - 8ohm. If you spent 5 mins with a couple speakers, some wire, and a multimeter, you could learn alot in these regards. Bridging an amplifier really translates in one channel pushing, and one channel pulling. so, 250w left, and 250w right in Stereo works into 250w pushing, 250w pulling, making for 500w in bridged. Still 4ohm . Take 2 4ohm speakers hook in stereo, you have 2 4ohm loads, so it's 250w and 250w. Take 2 4ohm speakers, hook them in parallel, amp bridged, you have 2 ohm load.and 1000w. Take 2 4ohm speakers, hook them in series, amp bridged, you have 8ohm load and 250w. Series wiring, the is Amp speaker positive, into speaker1 positive, comes out speaker1 negative, into speaker 2 positive, out speaker 2 positive, into amp speaker negative. Parallel, is Amp speaker positive, into speaker one and speaker two positive, out of speaker one and two negative into amp speaker negative all 4-ohm speaker is my assumption. 250w 2 channel amp, capable of anything for hypothetical answers. a. 500w amp = 250w per channel, 2 channel amp. running bridged is 250 + 250 = 500 W b. 500w amp = 250 watt left channel, 250 watt right channel c. 500w amp = 250w per channel, parallel wiring, presents 2 ohms per channel. = 500w left channel, 500w right channel = amp pushing 1000w d. 500w amp = dont bother, you are cobbling crap together. here is a little good reading that may help all your questions. http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm Thanks, but I understand most of this^. The drawings and one lead thing, it was just a loose ms paint representation. I understand it's just a simple drawing, just wanted to make sure you understood that second lead could make a significant difference. |
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This whole thing got way too technical for me! Quoted:
and this is where I say Hold on.... You have to factor in the resistance of each speaker. And whether you wire them in series or parallel. We need more Facts. So far, this is the right answer. Can't answer until this is known.
LOL. Its all good, 
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Quoted: Quoted: If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. $1/watt Damn, shit got cheap I Think the Punch 100 I had back in 94~95 era was close to $350 The original 12W1 went for $125 IIRC The rest was a good bit more, still wont admit to what I spent  |
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and this is where I say Hold on.... You have to factor in the resistance of each speaker. And whether you wire them in series or parallel. We need more Facts. So far, this is the right answer. Can't answer until this is known. I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought in the op...Given the speakers in each diagram are wired to receive all the amp has to give Given all the speakers in each diagram are wired correctly in realtion to each other (whether is be series/parallel/whatever is called for) to put the same load on the amp. |
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I still think those old Punch amps are the tits. I had 2 running 3 JL 10/W/0's in my Camaro that flat out rocked. In fact, I recently went looking for a couple of 100's to do another system. Fuck the new junk. I want an old proven workhorse. Damn things are still pricey.  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. $1/watt Damn, shit got cheap I Think the Punch 100 I had back in 94~95 era was close to $350 The original 12W1 went for $125 IIRC |
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Quoted: I still think those old Punch amps are the tits. I had 2 running 3 JL 10/W/0's in my Camaro that flat out rocked. In fact, I recently went looking for a couple of 100's to do another system. Fuck the new junk. I want an old proven workhorse. Damn things are still pricey. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. $1/watt Damn, shit got cheap I Think the Punch 100 I had back in 94~95 era was close to $350 The original 12W1 went for $125 IIRC I still kick myself for selling it I was running 2 12w1 8ohm in parallel.. It was a box I put together basically mixed sealed and ported ( undersized ports ) had alot more loudness than sealed but still hit like a sealed |
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If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. $1/watt Damn, shit got cheap I Think the Punch 100 I had back in 94~95 era was close to $350 The original 12W1 went for $125 IIRC The rest was a good bit more, still wont admit to what I spent Married with two young children. 
That being said, the last thing I need to do right now is spend a shit ton of money on new audio equipment. I bought the Pioneer GM-5100t amp off of Craigslist for $60, and the two 12" RF P2 subs in a nice vented box for $80. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I still think those old Punch amps are the tits. I had 2 running 3 JL 10/W/0's in my Camaro that flat out rocked. In fact, I recently went looking for a couple of 100's to do another system. Fuck the new junk. I want an old proven workhorse. Damn things are still pricey. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. $1/watt Damn, shit got cheap I Think the Punch 100 I had back in 94~95 era was close to $350 The original 12W1 went for $125 IIRC I still kick myself for selling it I was running 2 12w1 8ohm in parallel.. It was a box I put together basically mixed sealed and ported ( undersized ports ) had alot more loudness than sealed but still hit like a sealed "Basically mixed sealed and ported" You realize that SEALED means its SEALED (air tight) and PORTED means...well...it has a port in it. So, theres no way you can MIX. The second it has a hole, its ported. you CAN however have a sealed enclosure within a ported enclosure, and this is whats known as a bandbass. your "undersized ports" just meant it was tuned lower, so it'd still jam the low notes but have the efficiency of a ported enclosure. |
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I still think those old Punch amps are the tits. I had 2 running 3 JL 10/W/0's in my Camaro that flat out rocked. In fact, I recently went looking for a couple of 100's to do another system. Fuck the new junk. I want an old proven workhorse. Damn things are still pricey.
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If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. $1/watt Damn, shit got cheap I Think the Punch 100 I had back in 94~95 era was close to $350 The original 12W1 went for $125 IIRC
Junk is an understatement. The Rockford of old (meaning 89-93 like the Punch 30, 45, 75 and 150 and Power 300, 650 and 1000) cannot even be compared to crap made in the past decade, although I will give the 99-2004' Diamond Audio stuff some major respect. Those Punch amps were what? $8-$10/watt? You get what you pay for. There is absolutely no comparison between recent car electronics and the ones of old. Not even close. |
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I still think those old Punch amps are the tits. I had 2 running 3 JL 10/W/0's in my Camaro that flat out rocked. In fact, I recently went looking for a couple of 100's to do another system. Fuck the new junk. I want an old proven workhorse. Damn things are still pricey.
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If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. $1/watt Damn, shit got cheap I Think the Punch 100 I had back in 94~95 era was close to $350 The original 12W1 went for $125 IIRC
I still kick myself for selling it I was running 2 12w1 8ohm in parallel.. It was a box I put together basically mixed sealed and ported ( undersized ports ) had alot more loudness than sealed but still hit like a sealed There are three 12W1 8 ohm subs in a crappy box for $75 just listed on CG. Have thought about them. I used to run them as well. I set all my current systems up (3) back in the late '90's early '00's. I have an awesome Lanzar OptidrivePlus50 drive (circa '93-'94) running in one of them, a RF Punch 60 in another, and a still somewhat older RF Punch 250.2 in the other. I love the old stuff...
ETA: The 50W Lanzar sound alot better than the 760W Pioneer that I picked up, as does the Punch 60, and the RF 250.2 (in that order) |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I still think those old Punch amps are the tits. I had 2 running 3 JL 10/W/0's in my Camaro that flat out rocked. In fact, I recently went looking for a couple of 100's to do another system. Fuck the new junk. I want an old proven workhorse. Damn things are still pricey. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. IF YOURE NOT PAYING ONE DOLLAR PER WATT ITS NOT QUALITY. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. $1/watt Damn, shit got cheap I Think the Punch 100 I had back in 94~95 era was close to $350 The original 12W1 went for $125 IIRC I still kick myself for selling it I was running 2 12w1 8ohm in parallel.. It was a box I put together basically mixed sealed and ported ( undersized ports ) had alot more loudness than sealed but still hit like a sealed There are three 12W1 8 ohm subs in a crappy box for $75 just listed on CG. Have thought about them. I used to run them as well. I set all my current systems up (3) back in the late '90's early '00's. I have an awesome Lanzar OptidrivePlus50 drive (circa '93-'94) running in one of them, a RF Punch 60 in another, and a still somewhat older RF Punch 250.2 in the other. I love the old stuff... ETA: The 50W Lanzar sound alot better than the 760W Pioneer that I picked up, as does the Punch 60, and the RF 250.2 (in that order) Agreed the original Lanzar gear was nice... |
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If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp.  Laugh as you will, but inmy experience (back in the day, atleast) JL Audio subs were always found in the best sounding local systems and RF & Lanzar amps outperformed everything around. I was never impressed with anything from Kicker. |
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I'm just playing off stereotypes. People who 'think they know' like to play off the "BACK IN MY DAY!" excuse. Most of the people in this thread thusfar sound like they know what was goin on. The old stuff is great, and it you're all about nostalgia, good for you - But, some of these guys that spend top dollar for old gear is laughable at best. There are also many different ways to go about car audio. You've got your 'audiophile' sq guys, your 'i want my doors to fall off 'spl' guys and then the average suburban gangster who thinks hes hood. |
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I'm just playing off stereotypes. People who 'think they know' like to play off the "BACK IN MY DAY!" excuse. Most of the people in this thread thusfar sound like they know what was goin on. The old stuff is great, and it you're all about nostalgia, good for you - But, some of these guys that spend top dollar for old gear is laughable at best. There are also many different ways to go about car audio. You've got your 'audiophile' sq guys, your 'i want my doors to fall off 'spl' guys and then the average suburban gangster who thinks hes hood. I have heard the newest RF amps are supposed to pretty good as well. Same thing about the Alpine Type R sub series. The funny thing is, you will pay more for the newer stuff than the "pricey older stuff". |
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DIYMobileAudio is one of the best places to go for questions and answers for car audio. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm just playing off stereotypes. People who 'think they know' like to play off the "BACK IN MY DAY!" excuse. Most of the people in this thread thusfar sound like they know what was goin on. The old stuff is great, and it you're all about nostalgia, good for you - But, some of these guys that spend top dollar for old gear is laughable at best. There are also many different ways to go about car audio. You've got your 'audiophile' sq guys, your 'i want my doors to fall off 'spl' guys and then the average suburban gangster who thinks hes hood. I have heard the newest RF amps are supposed to pretty good as well. Same thing about the Alpine Type R sub series. The funny thing is, you will pay more for the newer stuff than the "pricey older stuff". Newer RF Amps are good, and still pricey. Type R's sound like asshole, but get decently loud for your average joe. Obviously a 1,000 dollar amp from 15yrs ago is going to be cheap now a days, but i've seen guys pay MORE THAN newer equipment, just because it was old. Clean power is clean power. If its clean, cheap, and doesnt have a reputation for blowing up, I'll let it in my car. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. Laugh as you will, but inmy experience (back in the day, atleast) JL Audio subs were always found in the best sounding local systems and RF & Lanzar amps outperformed everything around. I was never impressed with anything from Kicker. My long lost brother.  I used to be the lone Lanzar spokesperson in my town back in the day when JL was popular just because is was popular. It was the Paris Hilton of car audio in the 90's. I worked for a tint shop/audio shop and we carried Lanzar stuff. The "big" shop in town carried all the fancy JL shiney blingy shit. I ran 2 DC Pro 10's DVC's in a bandpass ported through the back wall of my truck. People would sit in it and literally argue with me that it was only 2 10's Opti Drive 150 running the subs and an Opti 50 running 2 6.5 mids in each door and tweets in the door and 2 I fabbed in in the center vents. Still to this day one of the loudest and best sounding systems I have built. After that, Lanzar offered our shop a shitload of the orange coned Pro 15's for like $50 each. We bought like 40 of them. The shop put like 8 in the company van and a bunch of us bought some then a few actually made it to the shop floor. I put 2 in a Honda hatchback. Absolutely ridiculous. I eventually semi-climbed on the JL wagon as far as subs go once Lanzar sold out to Pyramid and began the decade of suck. |
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If you haven't bought audio equipment, we'd be glad to argue over reputations and sound quality for you. JL, ROCKFORD FOSGATE, AND KICKER ARE THE ONLY BRANDS WORTH A DAMN, EVER. /derp. Laugh as you will, but inmy experience (back in the day, atleast) JL Audio subs were always found in the best sounding local systems and RF & Lanzar amps outperformed everything around. I was never impressed with anything from Kicker. My long lost brother.
I used to be the lone Lanzar spokesperson in my town back in the day when JL was popular just because is was popular. It was the Paris Hilton of car audio in the 90's. I worked for a tint shop/audio shop and we carried Lanzar stuff. The "big" shop in town carried all the fancy JL shiney blingy shit. I ran 2 DC Pro 10's DVC's in a bandpass ported through the back wall of my truck. People would sit in it and literally argue with me that it was only 2 10's Opti Drive 150 running the subs and an Opti 50 running 2 6.5 mids in each door and tweets in the door and 2 I fabbed in in the center vents. Still to this day one of the loudest and best sounding systems I have built. After that, Lanzar offered our shop a shitload of the orange coned Pro 15's for like $50 each. We bought like 40 of them. The shop put like 8 in the company van and a bunch of us bought some then a few actually made it to the shop floor. I put 2 in a Honda hatchback. Absolutely ridiculous. I eventually semi-climbed on the JL wagon as far as subs go once Lanzar sold out to Pyramid and began the decade of suck. My best friend in high school turned me onto Lanzar for the first time 1993 in his '83 Camaro. I don't remember what models he had, but he was running two Lanzar amps, and two 12" Lanzar subs. To this day, I have yet to hear a system (2 10's,12's, or 15's)with that much SPL, along with the excellent SQ. The sound is kind of like the smell of pure country air in the dog days of summer in the mid-west, you can't exactly explain it, but it is instantly recognizable and can't be mistaken for anything else. |