Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 4/22/2002 3:12:51 PM EDT
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/22/france.election/index.html[/url] [i]The ripples from Le Pen's success [/i] [in the first round of voting in the French presidential elections] [i]are spreading across Europe with nationalists in other countries gathering strength from the result while others, including a forum of Jewish world leaders being held in Brussels were horrified. ... Analysis of the result showed Le Pen, who once called the Holocaust a detail of history, finished first in nine of France's 22 regions and displaced the Socialists and Communists as the choice of working class voters. ... In Brussels, world Jewish leaders held emergency talks to discuss how to fight a rash of anti-Semitic violence that has swept western Europe -- especially in France and Belgium. "We are now facing an unprecedented increase in anti-Semitism on this continent," Avi Beker, secretary-general of the World Jewish Congress, told Reuters. "We haven't had this level of anti-Semitism since World War Two." Israel's most powerful religious party urged French Jews to emigrate to Israel to escape anti-Semitism.[/i] Ooooh, those poor poor French, how are they ever going to manage to get along, once all the jews will be gone? [url]http://www.duke.org/[/url]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 3:33:16 PM EDT
I really don't understand why the French Jews would be so upset, he has said nothing about them, other than relegating the Holocaust to it's rightful place in history. Le Pen seems to be running on a "France for French people" type platform, not an anti-semitic one. Perhaps the Jews are upset because they truly *are* the ones pushing for 3rd world flooding of the Western nations? No idea. Nice to see the French show some balls for a change though.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 3:36:40 PM EDT
First, consider the source. CNN doesn't like you or me either. Also, I understand that much of the anti-semitic nonsense going on in France is not being perpetrated by politically active former paratroopers or other homegrown talent, but by various imported factions who still have an axe to grind from their old countries. Why can't we all just get along and boot more socialists out of office? :)
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 3:54:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:21:12 PM EDT
Oh boy. Hannah please, rightful place in history? The holocaust was more than a "detail of history".
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:31:31 PM EDT
The Holocaust was nothing more than a downhill straightaway on the road of mankind's slouching toward Gomorrah. [i][b]N'est pas?[/b][/i] Eric The(OK,ASixMillionHumanDownhillStrightaway)Hu­n[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:37:46 PM EDT
It's tough to feel sorry, even after 50 years, for a creed of people who obediently capitulated and happily marched to their own deaths. Don't Tread...
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:38:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 4:39:56 PM EDT by Hannah_Reitsch]
Nope, sorry Operatorerror, The Holocaust® was neither no more or no less than any other horrible event in history. Stalin murdered many more, and they pay no reparations or carry any guilt. No biggie, not Jews, right? Just Christian Russians and Ukrainians. Pol Pot slew quite a few also. Throughout history, massacres have come and gone, the USA vs the Native Americans, for instance. Old story, repeated often. Le Pen said nothing any normal person would not have said. It only becomes a big deal when it is Jews, it seems. Only the "let's make money till the 4th generation" crowd finds no fault with this.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:42:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 4:46:14 PM EDT by DScott]
So this is news? France, it seems, has always had an affinity for the Nazis. In local news, the score so far is: Moose Lodge 1, Neo-fascists 0.
Hitler's Birthday Party in La Habra Is Off, Group Says: Aryan Nations Chapter is seeking a new venue after word leaked out that it had booked the Moose Lodge. An official there says the group misrepresented itself. By MIKE ANTON, TIMES STAFF WRITER An Aryan Nations group that booked a La Habra Moose Lodge for a party today says publicity has forced it to move the event. A man who answered the phone at the number listed on the white-supremacist group's Web site said Friday the event was canceled after the location was revealed. He said a new location was being sought. He would not give his name or other details. The Loyal Order of the Moose expressed shock on learning this week that the Brandenburg Division, a chapter of the Aryan Nations based in Long Beach, had booked the hall for a party celebrating Adolf Hitler's birthday and had been promoting the event on the Internet. The event's location was given only as Orange County, and the group's Web site said directions were on the tickets, which cost $15 in advance and $20 at the door. Promotions for the party said it would feature the rock band Youngland, which sings white-supremacist lyrics. Those attending were asked to "dress appropriately" and were reminded that "all National Socialist customs and traditions will be observed." ...
View Quote
From the LA Times, April 20, 2002.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:45:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:50:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: The Holocaust was nothing more than a downhill straightaway on the road of mankind's slouching toward Gomorrah. [i][b]N'est pas?[/b][/i] Eric The(OK,ASixMillionHumanDownhillStrightaway)Hu­n[>]:)]
View Quote
How does one "slouch" toward Gomorrah ?
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:53:55 PM EDT
I don't recall the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto "happily marching to their own deaths." Also, mind you that in the early stages of the war, tales of what was going on in the camps weren't exactly widely known. Hell, do you think those that marched into the gas chambers knew what they were? C'mon. As for it being a minor detail of history. No. Nothing minor about it. While there have been other "holocausts" througout history (Armenian - 2mill, Soviet - 20 mill+, Cambodian, etc.) & I do resent the term being hijacked to apply only to the Jewish one, that doesn't mean the planned elimination of an entire people is a MINOR hostorical event.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:54:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 4:59:43 PM EDT by operatorerror]
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Nope, sorry Operatorerror, The Holocaust® was neither no more or no less than any other horrible event in history. Stalin murdered many more, and they pay no reparations or carry any guilt. No biggie, not Jews, right? Just Christian Russians and Ukrainians. Pol Pot slew quite a few also. Throughout history, massacres have come and gone, the USA vs the Native Americans, for instance. Old story, repeated often. Le Pen said nothing any normal person would not have said. It only becomes a big deal when it is Jews, it seems. Only the "let's make money till the 4th generation" crowd finds no fault with this.
View Quote
All the events listed are abominations. I did not state that any one of these were worse than any other. Downgrading the genocide of any people in history is unacceptable. I don't understand the 4th generation comment. What does that mean?
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 4:54:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Nope, sorry Operatorerror, The Holocaust® was neither no more or no less than any other horrible event in history. Stalin murdered many more, and they pay no reparations or carry any guilt. No biggie, not Jews, right? Just Christian Russians and Ukrainians. Pol Pot slew quite a few also. Throughout history, massacres have come and gone, the USA vs the Native Americans, for instance. Old story, repeated often. Le Pen said nothing any normal person would not have said. It only becomes a big deal when it is Jews, it seems. Only the "let's make money till the 4th generation" crowd finds no fault with this.
View Quote
Hannah, I thought Stalin was equal opportunity - he killed without regard to religion or origin ? (After killing about 6 million Georgians: "Now I am truly safe. I have neither friends nor enemies.")
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:07:33 PM EDT
Oh, so mass murder only counts if it is a religion/race? Not an national group like the Georgians? Silly me, I thought mass murder was mass murder.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:11:43 PM EDT
4th gen, means even children of children of children of the victims are suing for reparations now. Check out the Swiss banks and German and US company payoffs. The holocaust is big business. Odd, that no *other* mass murder is even accorded the title. Let alone payoffs. Must be really special to be a Jew.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:16:49 PM EDT
To tell you the truth, after murdering more than, oh, let's say a million innocent men, women and children, I would say such murderers were all in the same dispicable category. Hitler and anyone who supported him [b]then[/b], or supports him [b]now[/b], can, and most likely will, go straight to Hell. Y'all must have some pretty finely tuned levels of disgust, that you can so easily distinquish between those who kill millions of innocents for any reason, and those who kill millions of innocents for no reason at all. Eric The(HitlerAndGermanyBothGotWhatTheyDeserved)H­un[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:19:43 PM EDT
Post from Hannah_Reitsch -
Must be really special to be a Jew.
View Quote
Nope. They just have all the really good lawyers! [:D] Eric The(IndiansNeedToHireThem)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:33:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 5:37:05 PM EDT by JackBurton]
Ok, Ok, Let me first state right here that I think that Hannah is right, mass murder is mass murder. I also think that the holocaust was a major blight on humanity and not just a small detail of history. We do however, when the holocaust is mentioned, only hear about 6 million Jews. The truth is that in addition to those Jews over 7 million, Poles, homosexuals, communists and other political and social so-called "undesirables" were also murdered. Are their deaths no less hideous? I am not anti-Jew, in fact I support the state of Israel. But as a thinking person, I have to admit that it does seem that other forms of genocide don't seem to register in comparison to the holocaust. Le Pen's National Front does give me some cause to be concerned. But it is refreshing to see a bump in Europes slouch toward communism. All of this said, I must assert that those who deal the Jews a bad hand are putting themselves in severe jeopardy. If you have a Bible, please open it and read the last three chapters of the prophet Zechariah...
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:39:01 PM EDT
Lawyers, and a whining kind of [i]chutzpah[/i]. Read [url]http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/id44.htm[/url] , or better yet, buy the book :) Kar98, not encouraging book piracy anymore, although I do have the file.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 5:48:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:06:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2002 7:08:39 PM EDT by DScott]
Never again! [img]http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS32/BUCH04.JPG[/img] (JEDEM DAS SEINE "TO EACH HIS OWN" inscription on gate at Buchenwald. (Photo flipped for legibility.) Photo credit: Florida Center for Instructional Technology [url]http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/default.htm[/url] "Letter from SS-Oberführer Viktor Brack to Reichsführer-SS Himmler, June 23, 1942. Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot, NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 272: Honorable Mr. Reichsführer! On instruction from Reichsleiter Bouhler I placed a part of my men at the disposal of Brigadeführer Globocnik some considerable time ago for his special task. Following a further request from him, I have now made available more personnel. On this occasion Brigadeführer Globocnik pressed the view that the whole action against the Jews should be carried out as quickly as it is in any way possible, so that we will not some day be stuck in the middle should any kind of difficulty make it necessary to stop the action. you yourself, Mr. Reichsführer, expressed the view to me at an earlier time that one must work as fast as possible, if only for reasons of concealment. Both views are more than justified according to my own experience, and basically they produce the same results. Nevertheless I beg to be permitted to present the following consideration of my own in this connection: According to my impression there are at least 2-3 million men and women well fit for work among the approx. 10 million European Jews. In consideration of the exceptional difficulties posed for us by the question of labor, [b]I am of the opinion that these 2-3 million should in any case be taken out and kept alive. Of course this can only be done if they are in the same time rendered incapable of reproduction.[/b] I reported to you about a year ago that persons under my instruction have completed the necessary experiments for this purpose. I wish to bring up these facts again. The type of sterilization which is normally carried out on persons with genetic disease is out of the question in this case, as it takes too much time and is expensive. Castration by means of X-rays, however, is not only relatively cheap, but can be carried out on many thousands in a very short time. I believe that it has become unimportant at the present time whether those affected will then in the course of a few weeks or months realize by the effects that they are castrated. In the event, Mr. Reichsführer, that you decide to choose these means in the interest of maintaining labor-material, Reichsleiter Bouhler will be ready to provide the doctors and other personnel needed to carry out this work. He also instructed me to inform you that I should then order the required equipment as quickly as possible. " [url]http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocSteri.htm[/url] (emphasis added)
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:27:26 PM EDT
All the events listed are abominations. I did not state that any one of these were worse than any other. Downgrading the genocide of any people in history is unacceptable.
View Quote
Suppose we have a set X with members A, B, C and D. If, in our discussions of X, we give a majority of our attention to A, aren't we effectively "downgrading" B, C and D?
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:53:50 PM EDT
Wow, France makes this Board on a regular basis now. It is amazing to see that a debate about Jean Marie LePen has degenerated into a discussion about the Holocaust body counts and methods of death? Can anyone say fixation. Frankly you guys sound like a bunch of yentas gossiping on 'Coffee Talk with Linda Richman'. In any case, I actually would like to make points about LePen. The FN in France has consistently garnered 10% to 15% in national elections. The parties greatest strenght lies in the South of France, which, conincidentally has the highest concentrations of foreginers living. These foreigners of course, are North African and Middle Eastern Moslims. It was a pethetic sight that I saw on the Croissette in Cannes where womn in those ridoculous 'burkas' sp. strolled up and down the boardwalk pushing their kids in strollers, while their husbands were in the casinos gambling and fooling around with busty French babes. Of course as we are experiencing here, the people are not immigrating and becoming one with their new country, but rather attempting to plant thier homelands in the new country. LePen, was one of the few persons who would represent that class of citizen, who by econimic necessity had to live with these 'new citizens'. He simply saw that down the road, the whole country would be infested the same way Marseilles and Nice had, and that is why his popularity rises. LePen is considered a dangerous man. He once lost his civil rights for 6 months and cold not run in an election because he punched out a member of the communist party. Make no mistake about it, the comparisons to Hitler can be made. LePen and FN members would and will start riots when the circumstances are correct. He has his brown shirts. (Not that this is always wrong). In any case, even Briggette Bardot of soft core porn and animal rights fame got in on the act when she stated to the effect that how sad it was that church bells were falling silent for want of priests and that mosques were full of people cutting sheeps throats. THE French Human rights Court fined her for that remark. ANother poster here made the remark that with Haider, LePen, Bertscoloni and a new German chancellor we mights have elimiated socialist governments from the Continent! We can only pray.
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 8:54:07 PM EDT
If you think that Berlusconi, LePen, getting elected is a good thing b/c "it will rid Europe of socialist govt's" you are seriously deluded. LePen is nothing more than a brown shirted thug, much the same as Vladimir Zhirinovsky was in Russia. Berlusconi owns Italy. Owns the media. Man, I can't even begin to start on this, I need to go to bed... Fascism is no better than socialism & they can try to couch this in "anti-crime" hysteria all they want, but it's no different than what brought the National Socialists to power in Germany over 60 years ago.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 5:46:40 AM EDT
I can only agree with about half the things he stands for (and we might differ about how to implement those policies), but what strikes me about these tantrums is how apparent their left-wing bias is (and not bias just against extremists, which would be consistant), and complete disrespect for the democratic process. The media there, here, and worldwide (I have been reading as many articles as I can find) have been using the words extreme-right (Yahoo: "French Far-Rightest"), while you never hear the term "extreme-left" from them (as if there is no such thing, when France has the equivalent of democrats, more to the left socialists, and even far out communists and trotskyites). When Le Pen gets 17% of the vote "the Right is on the move in Europe" scream newspaper headlines (contrast that with how they label socialist/communist majority governments...), and newspapers call his supporters "a menace." The Left, unable to accept any defeat (Not that Le Pen will actually even become President of France), of course are out in the street immediately, just as I said here the other day, yanking their children out of school to join them protesting what democracy is supposed to be all about. Take Minnesota in our own country, for example. Jesse Ventura was elected Governor because the Democratic and Republican parties were not addressing the issues people cared about (not because he was some brilliant guy or something). If the "mainstream" French politicos were addressing the issues of immigration abuse, the upswing in crime, etc. Le Pen wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Instead they have always responded in a mealy-mouthed, politically-correct, and ineffective way, while "Rome" was burning. Secondly, these European right-wing types of today are mostly full of hot air. They never end up doing half of what they say they will. It's just villification and demogoguery. The left-wingers on the other hand often end up doing far more damage than they claim in the election campaign. Can't let people know the truth! I'm surprised the rightists haven't followed their example and just shut their mouth. At least they are more honest about their intentions. "I hope that all democratic powers will unite against right-wing extremism and xenophobia," said Sweden's Social Democrat Prime Minister, Goran Persson. German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said that the share of the vote obtained by France's far right was "alarming". How come none of them are ever alarmed and willing to unite against the flip-side of the coin: the communists? The thieves of human rights and liberty. "It's not surprising that French voters are moving to a far-right party - they have the same problems of insecurity, of immigration and political corruption" said Filip Dewinter leader of Belgium's Vlaams Blok.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 6:10:04 AM EDT
"... Fascism is no better than socialism" jobux said it all.
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 6:15:37 AM EDT
And of course the Africans are in a tizzy, afraid that the gravy-train will come to an end (fear not my African friends, it will continue indefinitely): "The [second-round] vote will determine whether France remains a country for the whole world, or turn in on itself in darkness" and "Have the French gone crazy?" - Le Soleil newspaper Senegal. (READ: France exists as a country for their benefit) [url]//news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1944000/1944575.stm[/url] "They look to France - with all its imperfections - as a role model, an example of democracy, tolerance and civilised behaviour. The writer goes on to ask what the result implies for the emerging democracies which learned their politics from France." Well, for one thing, none of these countries are in the least bit generous or giving at all, so that's pretty damn meaningless. Their citizens are not taxed to send francs overseas. They don't take in millions of "asylum seekers" (READ: economic migrants). Foreigners are not committing crimes against them at a rate several times the general population. They don't do diddly squat, so it costs their people and "politics" nothing. Of course they're appalled!
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 6:17:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch: Le Pen seems to be running on a "France for French people" type platform, not an anti-semitic one.
View Quote
For them that would be the same thing. Israel is to be a jewish state (and must maintain a jewish majority) but for Europe, the racial homeland of other tribes - Germany for the Germans, The Netherlands for the Dutch, Sweden for the Swedes, etc. - "diversity" is to be championed...
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 6:22:28 AM EDT
The commies call anyone who does not agree with their peculiar view of life a "fascist". If you don't support their socialist, commie views, thay call you a fascist or a nazi. In fact, Le Pen is a "nationalist". Not unlike our own US flag wavers. Very much like our own "America First" folks. Nationalism is not fascism, except to commies and socialists. Sonce when did love of one's own country become nazi?
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 6:38:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: So what if some Jews are suing for reparations? I don’t think that justifies the implication that Jews are a bunch of money grubbers out to make a buck off the holocaust. This is as much a stereotype as gun owners being slack jawed hillbillies. Most of the Jews I’ve known have been decent and very hard working; while none of the Jews I know are suing for reparations, members of the trilateral commission, secretly running the media, or jewelers.
View Quote
Boy have they got you snowed. Jews is all communist bankers. Dintcha know that? And they drink the blood of Christian babies, and have tails! [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 4/23/2002 6:38:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kar98: [url]http://www.duke.org/[/url]
View Quote
Idiot.
Top Top