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Posted: 9/13/2010 1:38:12 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
landing gear went through the roof of the building, its technically part of ground zero.

Oh dear Lord... Dust from the Two Towers probably circulated the Earth and fell across various regions of every continent at this point. Shall we pretend all that land is somehow sacred, too?!?

Respect for the dead is one thing... the abortion going on with respect to the Mosque (from both sides) borders on using the dead for ones own political agenda. The Imam is hijacking the dead to show how intolerant Americans are, and how oppressed Islam is in America. Those opposed to his building of the Mosque (from the standpoint of, "there ought to be a law,") have forgotten what makes them American... and they are using the dead to justify their hate and destruction of the religious freedom that made this nation great.

This whole mess is a contrived distraction, and I am, quite frankly, surprised and apalled at how easily so many of you have bought into it hook, line and sinker.

You don't say what State in the USA where you reside, yet I would think you would respect a Revoluntionary or Civil War battle ground site. As someone who worked at the WTC, that is how I view it.

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:39:56 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That guy/cleric/whatever title they wanna be called is full of shit. They could literally put their mosque anywhere else in NYC but they take aim for as close as they can get to ground zero.

Coincidence? I think not.

It is hallowed ground; FUCK ANYONE THAT SAYS IT ISN'T.

You ever wonder how the Amerian Indian felt when shopping malls were erected on top of burial sites?

I think we all know now.

The difference is the American Indian had already been defeated when this occurred...wait...a minute...

TRG

Yep, thats relevant.

Were basically Al-qaeda offspring and should be ashamed of something we werent alive for .

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:41:03 PM EDT

[#3]

Arfcom has decreed that a Burlington Coat Factory is now considered 'sacred ground'. Can we get a list of all sacred locations in New York? I don't want to accidentally walk on sacred ground next time I take a trip? Though I guess I better double check before I leave, just in case new sites get added because someone got pissy.

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:42:40 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You'd think that idiot would get the point that the general populace DOES NOT want that built there. But instead, he continues to push. Why? Because people are giving him a forum to do so.

Because, if he can generate the funds and get people to build it*, the First Amendment protects his right to do it... no matter how uncomfortable it may make you feel.

This is no different than a soccer-mom who cries about how uncomfortable she is because you exercise your right to carry a weapon.

Either the Constitution means something, or it's just so much paper.

*The beautiful part about our system of freedom lies in the fact that the construction firms can refuse to build his precious Mosque.

We have the right to bare arms, but not everywhere, because it makes people uncomfortable. They can go practice the 1st somewhere else.

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Posted: 9/13/2010 1:44:39 PM EDT

[#5]

I completely agree with him. He's right.

Moderate Muslims DO need a place to express their voice.

If anyone ever finds any Moderate Muslims, then I think they should build a mosque and condemn all the violence being done in the name of islam.

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:45:16 PM EDT

[#6]

Sounds like a reasonable gentleman.

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:48:26 PM EDT

[#7]

I've watched quite a few interviews of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf on tv. He is a lying, deceitful man who will say anything at any time to further his cause.

He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. F*ck him and f*ck his followers.

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:51:10 PM EDT

[#8]

Hmmmm..... 3000 people are killed by radical extremist muslims, and this imam is surprised that people don't want a mosque near the site......... sounds like he just wants to build it there to make a point

"we kill your people, and you let us worship near the site, stupid capitalist pigs, we love NY". This is the message that I personally think this imam is spreading!

And if islam is such a religion of love then, if this site offends people they should just build it somewhere else. out of love and not to offend people.

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:55:31 PM EDT

[#9]

Fine. let's build a Cathedral in Mecca and one in Medina.

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:59:04 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You'd think that idiot would get the point that the general populace DOES NOT want that built there. But instead, he continues to push. Why? Because people are giving him a forum to do so.

Because, if he can generate the funds and get people to build it*, the First Amendment protects his right to do it... no matter how uncomfortable it may make you feel.

This is no different than a soccer-mom who cries about how uncomfortable she is because you exercise your right to carry a weapon.

Either the Constitution means something, or it's just so much paper.

*The beautiful part about our system of freedom lies in the fact that the construction firms can refuse to build his precious Mosque.

It's a zoning issue. He has a right to build that mosque anywhere he wants other than that ground. Not granting him a building permit for that site does not restrict his freedom to worship. There are 100s of mosques in the area, no one is restricting his right to practice his religion, just asking that he move it elsewhere.

Posted: 9/13/2010 1:59:48 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
landing gear went through the roof of the building, its technically part of ground zero.

Ground zero is the point directly under an explosion. Ground zero in Hiroshima is the point directly under the bomb when it detonated, not a mile away where a building was destroyed, or 5 miles away where. Little miss Ashima's tea cup was knocked over and broken. So no, technically I wouldn't say it is "part of" ground zero.

Wonder if the Japanese would allow us to build a WW2 victory temple two blocks from "ground zero" in Hiroshima and Nagasaki if we called them intolerant enough times?

Posted: 9/13/2010 2:02:27 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I've watched quite a few interviews of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf on tv. He is a lying, deceitful man who will say anything at any time to further his cause.

He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. F*ck him and f*ck his followers.

Two other things he said this morning; he talked about the contributions of Muslims in America. About Jazz musicians having had Muslim ancestry beore they were enslaved and brought to the New World; and American Muslims involved in the civil rights movements of the '50s and '60s. Arab Muslims were reknown for being slavers, and the Black Muslims under Elijah Muhammed wanted separation from the white "devils".

Posted: 9/13/2010 2:08:35 PM EDT

[#13]

I believe the United States is a good place to not to build a mosque. It's all hallowed ground to me.

Posted: 9/13/2010 2:27:20 PM EDT

[#14]

There is a mosque four, yes 4 blocks away from Ground Zero.

Please tell me why we need one two blocks away from Ground Zero now?

Please tell me who, in their moderateness, finds this to be a good idea?

Truth is that several true moderates have condemned the idea. Good enough for me.
I've told you guys from the start, this isn't a moderate thing at all.

Posted: 9/13/2010 2:42:15 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That guy/cleric/whatever title they wanna be called is full of shit. They could literally put their mosque anywhere else in NYC but they take aim for as close as they can get to ground zero.

Coincidence? I think not.

It is hallowed ground; FUCK ANYONE THAT SAYS IT ISN'T.

You ever wonder how the Amerian Indian felt when shopping malls were erected on top of burial sites?

I think we all know now.

The difference is the American Indian had already been defeated when this occurred...wait...a minute...

TRG

Yep, thats relevant.

Were basically Al-qaeda offspring and should be ashamed of something we werent alive for .

Either you completely missed my point, or I missed yours. I'm not sure which.

The American Indian had no choice to sit back and watch the destruction of their sacred sites. The US Calvary had whipped them, our system had broken them, and their culture folded to the point that they had no option but to drag their children to 'reservations'.

WE, however, have a choice and are simply acting as if we have been defeated.

TRG

Posted: 9/13/2010 2:42:46 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
For the record, I don't like the idea of the Mosque there any better than y'all... I'm just not quite ready to sacrifice the Bill of Rights on the altar of comfort.

Agreed; but the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, General Petraeus, and the FBI came directly down on that pastor who said he was going to publicly burn a koran in Gainesville.

There's a double standard.

Posted: 9/13/2010 2:45:15 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

There is a mosque four, yes 4 blocks away from Ground Zero.

Please tell me why we need one two blocks away from Ground Zero now?

Please tell me who, in their moderateness, finds this to be a good idea?

Truth is that several true moderates have condemned the idea. Good enough for me.

I've told you guys from the start, this isn't a moderate thing at all.

I want to know how/why the State Department was funding a multi-month trip to the Middle East for this Imam. Are they doing the same for preachers heading to Africa? Priests heading to the rain forests? Rabbis traveling to Israel?

Serious question, not stirring a pot, I would like to know what selection process was used for the US Government to spend tax money on a religious trip. Separation of Church and state would have been ALL over the news if this had been any other group being 'sponsored' for a fund raising trip for a 'church'...

TRG

Posted: 9/13/2010 2:57:20 PM EDT

[#18]

Posted: 9/13/2010 3:00:25 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There is a mosque four, yes 4 blocks away from Ground Zero.

Please tell me why we need one two blocks away from Ground Zero now?

Please tell me who, in their moderateness, finds this to be a good idea?

Truth is that several true moderates have condemned the idea. Good enough for me.
I've told you guys from the start, this isn't a moderate thing at all.

I want to know how/why the State Department was funding a multi-month trip to the Middle East for this Imam. Are they doing the same for preachers heading to Africa? Priests heading to the rain forests? Rabbis traveling to Israel?

Serious question, not stirring a pot, I would like to know what selection process was used for the US Government to spend tax money on a religious trip. Separation of Church and state would have been ALL over the news if this had been any other group being 'sponsored' for a fund raising trip for a 'church'...

TRG

Not only that...

Americans also may be surprised to learn that the United States has been an active participant in mosque construction projects overseas. In April, U.S. Ambassador to Tanzania Alfonso E. Lenhardt helped cut the ribbon at the 12th-century Kizimkazi Mosque, which was refurbished with assistance from the United States under a program to preserve culturally significant buildings. The U.S. government
also helped save the Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque in Cairo, which dates back
to 642. The mosque's namesake was the Muslim conqueror of Christian
Egypt, who built the structure on the site where he had pitched his tent
before doing battle with the country's Byzantine rulers. For those who
think the Ground Zero Mosque is an example of "Muslim triumphalism"
glorifying conquest, the Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque is an example of such a
monument - and one paid for with U.S. taxpayer funds.

The mosques being rebuilt by the United States are used for religious worship, which raises important First Amendment questions. U.S.
taxpayer money should not be used to preserve and promote Islam, even
abroad. In July 2009, the Office of the Inspector General published an
audit of U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID)
faith-based and community initiatives that examined whether government
funds were being used for religious activities. The auditors found that
while USAID
was funding some religious activities, officials were "uncertain of
whether such uses of Agency funding violate Agency regulations or the
Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution" when
balanced against foreign-policy objectives.

For example, our
government rebuilt the Al Shuhada Mosque in Fallujah, Iraq, expecting
such benefits as "stimulating the economy, enhancing a sense of pride in
the community, reducing opposition to international relief
organizations operating in Fallujah, and reducing incentives among young
men to participate in violence or insurgent groups." But Section
205.1(d) of title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations prohibits USAID
funds from being used for the rehabilitation of structures to the
extent that those structures are used for "inherently religious
activities." It is impossible to separate religion from a mosque; any
such projects will necessarily support Islam.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/10/tax-dollars-to-build-mosques/

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:17:34 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
For the record, I don't like the idea of the Mosque there any better than y'all... I'm just not quite ready to sacrifice the Bill of Rights on the altar of comfort.

And how is that happening? No one said 'You can NOT practice your religion'. What they ARE saying is 'show a little fucking class.'
Good luck finding American workers to build that fucker too.

I don't see this as any different than people trying to keep civil war battlefields from becoming strip malls. Something happened that has to be remembered. Not swept under the rug, first time someone gets their panties in a bunch.

The way they're dragging their feet rebuilding, and on top of that, wanting to let this be built there. Is just showing the world one of two things.
1) We will cheerfully bend over backwards to anyone willing to murder our people.
2) We're willing to pay ANY price to appease any country or group that murders innocent Americans.

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:23:26 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I want to know how/why the State Department was funding a multi-month trip to the Middle East for this Imam. Are they doing the same for preachers heading to Africa? Priests heading to the rain forests? Rabbis traveling to Israel?

Serious question, not stirring a pot, I would like to know what selection process was used for the US Government to spend tax money on a religious trip. Separation of Church and state would have been ALL over the news if this had been any other group being 'sponsored' for a fund raising trip for a 'church'...

TRG

Back when Karen Hughes was brought back by Bush to try to make America look better in the eyes of the Middle East, the State Department hired this Imam.

Bush signed this guy up because he thinks American-style democracy is good for the Middle East. He's paid to go to various locations around the ME and tell Arabs that American institutions are good things, and should be emulated.

He wrote a book literally saying that America - as is - is a fine place for Muslims to reside, because we let everyone worship their faith here.

You're a smart enough guy that I know you'll google some of his work. Take a look. He isn't the boogeyman he's been made to be by a bunch of lunatics, and he's certainly no jihadist.

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:27:50 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
For the record, I don't like the idea of the Mosque there any better than y'all... I'm just not quite ready to sacrifice the Bill of Rights on the altar of comfort.

For the record, you SURE seem fine with it being built, based on your posts in this thread.

The Constitution is NOT a suicide note.

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:28:20 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Arfcom has decreed that a Burlington Coat Factory is now considered 'sacred ground'. Can we get a list of all sacred locations in New York? I don't want to accidentally walk on sacred ground next time I take a trip? Though I guess I better double check before I leave, just in case new sites get added because someone got pissy.

WOW!!

This has to be the most dumb ass statements of this year.. Either you're really ignorant, or not an AMERICAN!! God Bless the USA!!

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:32:35 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
For the record, I don't like the idea of the Mosque there any better than y'all... I'm just not quite ready to sacrifice the Bill of Rights on the altar of comfort.

For the record, you SURE seem fine with it being built, based on your posts in this thread.

The Constitution is NOT a suicide note.

That phrase is the first refuge of a scoundrel.

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:34:30 PM EDT

[#25]

I have given this Mosque thing some thought since it was first made public, for me the bottom line is, the area is "sacred ground", especially that it can be seen from the proposed Mosque location, so the "Moderate Muslims" that would be in that building can look at the World Trade Center site all day long !

Posted: 9/13/2010 4:57:13 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
landing gear went through the roof of the building, its technically part of ground zero.

Oh dear Lord... Dust from the Two Towers probably circulated the Earth and fell across various regions of every continent at this point. Shall we pretend all that land is somehow sacred, too?!?

Respect for the dead is one thing... the abortion going on with respect to the Mosque (from both sides) borders on using the dead for ones own political agenda. The Imam is hijacking the dead to show how intolerant Americans are, and how oppressed Islam is in America. Those opposed to his building of the Mosque (from the standpoint of, "there ought to be a law,") have forgotten what makes them American... and they are using the dead to justify their hate and destruction of the religious freedom that made this nation great.

This whole mess is a contrived distraction, and I am, quite frankly, surprised and apalled at how easily so many of you have bought into it hook, line and sinker.

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:03:53 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Arfcom has decreed that a Burlington Coat Factory is now considered 'sacred ground'. Can we get a list of all sacred locations in New York? I don't want to accidentally walk on sacred ground next time I take a trip? Though I guess I better double check before I leave, just in case new sites get added because someone got pissy.

WOW!!

This has to be the most dumb ass statements of this year.. Either you're really ignorant, or not an AMERICAN!! God Bless the USA!!

Yes... disagree with a mob, and you're not American...

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:04:33 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

landing gear went through the roof of the building, its technically part of ground zero.

BODY parts were spread farther than where the mosque is being considered.

I am so pissed, right now. This is seriously in outrage. My co-worker got me all hyped up saying how fucked up this is. He's an old vet and said this is a disgrace to Americans how they piss on us and tell us WE NEED to be more PC, they can shove a PC right up their ass. This is war.

This is so right!!!!!!!!!!

Well said.

You're damn right! Perhaps we should just cut to the chase and round them all up like we did with the Japanese during WWII. It is, after all, war.

Nice jump to genocide there, ace.

That's right, those of us who object to this Muslim Victory Center near Ground Zero just want to round up all of those "mooslems" and ship them off to Dachau.

You are pathetic, as is your facetious argument.

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:06:57 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
For the record, I don't like the idea of the Mosque there any better than y'all... I'm just not quite ready to sacrifice the Bill of Rights on the altar of comfort.

And how is that happening? No one said 'You can NOT practice your religion'. What they ARE saying is 'show a little fucking class.'

You cannot compel someone to show class with laws. Neither is being a classless asshole against the law.

Good luck finding American workers to build that fucker too.

As I said, that is where our system of freedom exerts its own checks and balances. There is no need for y'all to embarrass yourselves by forsaking the very thing that makes you American because you are uncomfortable.

I don't see this as any different than people trying to keep civil war battlefields from becoming strip malls. Something happened that has to be remembered. Not swept under the rug, first time someone gets their panties in a bunch.

It will be remembered (whenever someone gets off their ass and builds the memorial). This mosque will not interfere with that memory.

The way they're dragging their feet rebuilding, and on top of that, wanting to let this be built there. Is just showing the world one of two things.
1) We will cheerfully bend over backwards to anyone willing to murder our people.
2) We're willing to pay ANY price to appease any country or group that murders innocent Americans.

It shows we're more interested in fighting amongst ourselves than we are in remembering the dead. That's all. The building of the mosque is wholly unrelated to the political failure of the city of New York to build the memorial at the actual ground zero.

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:08:11 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
landing gear went through the roof of the building, its technically part of ground zero.

BODY parts were spread farther than where the mosque is being considered.

I am so pissed, right now. This is seriously in outrage. My co-worker got me all hyped up saying how fucked up this is. He's an old vet and said this is a disgrace to Americans how they piss on us and tell us WE NEED to be more PC, they can shove a PC right up their ass. This is war.

This is so right!!!!!!!!!!

Well said.

You're damn right! Perhaps we should just cut to the chase and round them all up like we did with the Japanese during WWII. It is, after all, war.

Nice jump to genocide there, ace.

That's right, those of us who object to this Muslim Victory Center near Ground Zero just want to round up all of those "mooslems" and ship them off to Dachau.

You are pathetic, as is your facetious argument.

Perhaps you should look up the word, "genocide." It doesn't mean what you think it means. No one murdered any Japanese citizens, en masse, during WWII, but they WERE rounded up into camps. Or have you not gotten to that section of high-school American History yet?

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:10:22 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Strippers and betting parlours didn't attack America. MUSLIMS did. Pretty simple really.

I always give libs a multiple choice test-

"On 9/11, america was attacked by:

a) soccer moms

b) right wing christian extremists

c) muslim men of middle eastern origin between the ages of 18 and 31

d) CEOs

e) the bloods

"

Apparently:

f) "extremists of all faith traditions"

...is the correct answer.

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:48:57 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Yes... disagree with a mob, and you're not American...

You like to pop-off statements that no one has made to make yourself feel better. Do you have some sort of persecution complex?

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:49:32 PM EDT

[#33]

And apparently only white Christian republican gun owning conservatives died there.

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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:51:09 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
And apparently only white Christian republican gun owning conservatives died there.

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And who said that?

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:51:27 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yes... disagree with a mob, and you're not American...

You like to pop-off statements that no one has made to make yourself feel better. Do you have some sort of persecution complex?

Perhaps you shouldn't have snipped the part where someone DID, in fact, say that very thing.

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:55:32 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yes... disagree with a mob, and you're not American...

You like to pop-off statements that no one has made to make yourself feel better. Do you have some sort of persecution complex?

Perhaps you shouldn't have snipped the part where someone DID, in fact, say that very thing.

WOW!! This has to be the most dumb ass statements of this year.. Either you're really ignorant, or not an AMERICAN!! God Bless the USA!!

This. Read it yourself, "an American". That means not from America. Nice try though.

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:58:07 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yes... disagree with a mob, and you're not American...

You like to pop-off statements that no one has made to make yourself feel better. Do you have some sort of persecution complex?

Perhaps you shouldn't have snipped the part where someone DID, in fact, say that very thing.

WOW!! This has to be the most dumb ass statements of this year.. Either you're really ignorant, or not an AMERICAN!! God Bless the USA!!

This. Read it yourself, "an American". That means not from America. Nice try though.

quoted for posterity...

Posted: 9/13/2010 5:59:55 PM EDT

[#38]

That's some serious reading comprehension fail.

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Posted: 9/13/2010 6:06:51 PM EDT

[#39]

What you have to do is cook 100 pounds of bacon in there, well done. Never get the delicious smell out.

Posted: 9/13/2010 6:08:24 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
landing gear went through the roof of the building, its technically part of ground zero.

Ground zero is the point directly under an explosion. Ground zero in Hiroshima is the point directly under the bomb when it detonated, not a mile away where a building was destroyed, or 5 miles away where. Little miss Ashima's tea cup was knocked over and broken. So no, technically I wouldn't say it is "part of" ground zero.

Wonder if the Japanese would allow us to build a WW2 victory temple two blocks from "ground zero" in Hiroshima and Nagasaki if we called them intolerant enough times?

That is an absurd comparison.

Posted: 9/13/2010 6:08:39 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
For the record, I don't like the idea of the Mosque there any better than y'all... I'm just not quite ready to sacrifice the Bill of Rights on the altar of comfort.

And how is that happening? No one said 'You can NOT practice your religion'. What they ARE saying is 'show a little fucking class.'

You cannot compel someone to show class with laws. Neither is being a classless asshole against the law.

I agree. But I also think, 2 seconds of rational thought would lead them to understand that building there will NOT help anyone. At the very least it will be seen as a big 'fuck you'.

Good luck finding American workers to build that fucker too.

As I said, that is where our system of freedom exerts its own checks and balances. There is no need for y'all to embarrass yourselves by forsaking the very thing that makes you American because you are uncomfortable.

What am I forsaking? I'm not calling for all muslims to be rounded up and put up against a wall.
Or hung from lamp posts if they dare practice their religion. All I'm asking for is for them to do what they claim to be trying to do. Build understanding, rather than try to score points with whoever is bank rolling them.
(No doubt doing so for their own personal gain. On both sides of the money.)
Who said I was uncomfortable? I'm not. I'm mad as hell because the 'powers that be' are doing their best to pigeon hole and divide this country. And them picking the side that chose to piss people off isn't helping matters. They could have said 'Build it anywhere but there. It will cause hard feelings, and it could be seen as throwing salt into an open wound.' But they didn't. What they tried to do, is paint anyone whos against this as racist....again.

I don't see this as any different than people trying to keep civil war battlefields from becoming strip malls. Something happened that has to be remembered. Not swept under the rug, first time someone gets their panties in a bunch.

It will be remembered (whenever someone gets off their ass and builds the memorial). This mosque will not interfere with that memory.

No, but will be an open invitation to anyone with a grudge, letting them play the victim card. And causing another round of politicians to claim conservatives are racists, and to condemn anyone not progressive enough, to admit that every problem in this crappy world is the direct fault of the U.S.. Either because we did something, or because we didn't do something.

The way they're dragging their feet rebuilding, and on top of that, wanting to let this be built there. Is just showing the world one of two things.
1) We will cheerfully bend over backwards to anyone willing to murder our people.
2) We're willing to pay ANY price to appease any country or group that murders innocent Americans.

It shows we're more interested in fighting amongst ourselves than we are in remembering the dead. That's all. The building of the mosque is wholly unrelated to the political failure of the city of New York to build the memorial at the actual ground zero.

Yes and no.
You're right, it does show we like to fight amongst ourselves, given a chance. But it also shows the 'leaders' will throw us under the first bus that comes along, just to score points.

The fact that there is still no memorial is a disgrace. And doesn't say much for us, as a country, or NYC in general. What it does do, is show the world we elect spineless bastards to lead us. Which can and will lead to more problems down the road.

Posted: 9/13/2010 7:09:16 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
landing gear went through the roof of the building, its technically part of ground zero.

BODY parts were spread farther than where the mosque is being considered.

I am so pissed, right now. This is seriously in outrage. My co-worker got me all hyped up saying how fucked up this is. He's an old vet and said this is a disgrace to Americans how they piss on us and tell us WE NEED to be more PC, they can shove a PC right up their ass. This is war.

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/09/10/news/photos_stories/ground_zero_map090251.jpg

WOW! I didn't know that, makes ya kinda sad. All I have to say about this shit stain is FUCK YOU.

How about being sensitive to those who lost there loved ones?!? The POS doesn't give one fucking thing about the people of America or the people who lost their lives that day, or their familes. Maybe this shit stain should talk to the people that lost someone on 9 11 and see how they feel about it? Fuck him and fuck his mosque.

I have a feeling that when construction is started, it won't be long before someone or a group of people set fire to it or something. I can't recall the figure, but something like 80% of Americans polled don't want it built there. FUCK HIM!!!!!!

And the ones that say be tolerant, FUCK YOU TOO!!!!!! Move your fucking ass over to the sand box somewhere. Fuck you.

FUCK this makes my blood boil.

Posted: 9/13/2010 7:18:26 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I completely agree with him. He's right.

Moderate Muslims DO need a place to express their voice.

If anyone ever finds any Moderate Muslims, then I think they should build a mosque and condemn all the violence being done in the name of islam.

Where are these "moderate Muslims" you speak of?

Posted: 9/13/2010 7:41:33 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I completely agree with him. He's right.

Moderate Muslims DO need a place to express their voice.

If anyone ever finds any Moderate Muslims, then I think they should build a mosque and condemn all the violence being done in the name of islam.

Where are these "moderate Muslims" you speak of?

Posted: 9/13/2010 7:49:48 PM EDT

[#45]

If they move the proposed site, it will look bad to muslims. If they don't move it, it will piss off everyone else. (except terrorist sympathisers and liberals.)

Posted: 9/13/2010 10:02:21 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That guy/cleric/whatever title they wanna be called is full of shit. They could literally put their mosque anywhere else in NYC but they take aim for as close as they can get to ground zero.

Coincidence? I think not.

It is hallowed ground; FUCK ANYONE THAT SAYS IT ISN'T.

You ever wonder how the Amerian Indian felt when shopping malls were erected on top of burial sites?

I think we all know now.

The difference is the American Indian had already been defeated when this occurred...wait...a minute...

TRG

Yep, thats relevant.

Were basically Al-qaeda offspring and should be ashamed of something we werent alive for .

Either you completely missed my point, or I missed yours. I'm not sure which.

The American Indian had no choice to sit back and watch the destruction of their sacred sites. The US Calvary had whipped them, our system had broken them, and their culture folded to the point that they had no option but to drag their children to 'reservations'.

WE, however, have a choice and are simply acting as if we have been defeated.

TRG

We are not defeated, well at least I'm not.

They have a mosque in lower Manhattan already, this is just over the top effort of trying to rub our nose in the ashes of ground zero all in the name of "tolerance".

Think George Washington or any other Rev War Vet would have stood meekly by as they watched American citizen "Loyalists" setup a memorial down the street from the White House to the red coats that died storming and the subsequent burning of Washington DC in 1814 during the War of 1812? All in the name of "Tolerance" and not violating anyone's "Free Speech".
Bullshit.

They can worship 4 blocks away at the pre-existing Mosque, I'm sure its just fine. Or they can press the issue which will only inflame a still sore spot in American culture, and set back their "not all Muslims are extremist/terrorist" campaign. If they were smarter about this, they could win much more "moderate" support to their cause than to continue forward to pander to their hard line following.

Posted: 9/13/2010 10:23:54 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Add to this there are already dozens and dozens of mosques in Manhattan, this thing was originally called "Cordoba" and was planned to open Sept. 11 2012.

This is all a huge "FUCK YOU" to America, pure and simple.

.

Posted: 9/13/2010 10:24:20 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
If they move the proposed site, it will look bad to muslims. If they don't move it, it will piss off everyone else. (except terrorist sympathisers and liberals.)

No it won't. It will only look bad to Muslims if we refuse to issue a building permit. All the Imam has to do is announce that they are changing locations out of respect to 3000 murder victims - something he is unwilling to do.

Posted: 9/13/2010 10:30:12 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
I think it's somewhat repugnant for this islamic cleric to lecture us about what is and isn't hallowed ground.

With every utterance he makes it more and more clear that this center is less about building an interfaith dialogue and more about building a monument to conquest. Telling the American people that the real-estate is meaningless and that if we don't let him build his little center that other muslims will kill people just doesn't strike me as selling points for a peaceful exercise.

Right there with you. I WAS ambivalent over this, but with everything this asshole says, his TRUE intent becomes clearer.

Posted: 9/13/2010 10:31:21 PM EDT

[#50]

Here, Giuliani explains it pretty good;

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/giuliani-ground-zero-mosque/2010/09/12/id/369985?s=al&promo_code=AB8F-1

Giuliani Slams Ground Zero Mosque Imam
Sunday, 12 Sep 2010 03:47 PM

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani slammed the iman behind the so-called “ground zero mosque” Sunday for saying that Islam would be viewed as being under attack in America if the planned Islamic center two blocks from the site of the World Trade Center attacks is not built.

Appearing on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Giuliani said he would have told anybody three years ago that the families of 9/11 victims would be hurt and angered at the idea of erecting a huge Islamic near the site of the terror attacks by Islamic fundamentalists.

Referring to the recent threats of a radical minister in Florida to burn copies of the Koran, Giuliani said, “The imam has a right to put the mosque there. Freedom of religion gives him that right. The minister has the right to burn the Koran. The same amendment to the Constitution gives him that right, the First Amendment. In either case, common sense and a real dedication to healing that these men of God would theoretically have would tell you not to do it because you're hurting too many people."

Then host David Gregory asked him about comments the imam, Faisal Abdul Rauf, made last week on CNN’s Larry King show.

MR. GREGORY: You mention Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf, who is imam who wants to build a community center in lower Manhattan. He appeared on CNN this week and, and issued a warning of sorts about this debate moving forward and its impact. Let me play a portion of that.

MR. GIULIANI: Yeah.

(Videotape, Wednesday)
Imam FEISAL ABDUL RAUF: If we move from that location, the story will be that the radicals have taken over the discourse. The headlines in the Muslim world will be that Islam is under attack. And I'm less concerned by the radicals in America than I'm concerned about the radicals in the Muslim word.
(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: Are you concerned about that warning?

MR. GIULIANI: I'm concerned about the imam doing that. I think that tactic is not the kind of tactic I would have expected from an imam who's featured as a man of conciliation. You know, I analyzed this imam's history pretty carefully, and I hate to imply it, but it's the only way to do it. There's the good imam and the bad imam. The good imam is about reconciliation. He's about being open and transparent about what he's doing and how he's doing it. Then there's the bad imam who said America is an accessory to September 11. America has more Muslim blood on its hands than vice versa. He can't condemn Hamas as a terrorist group. And he will not be transparent about where he's getting the money, how he's getting the money, and has virtually not been open at all about this. And now we have the imam who tells us if doesn't get his way there could be significant and very dangerous violence. Look, those are very, very strong words, and to enter a sort of a suggestion of a threat into this, I worry about this as the kind of tactics he, he pursues.

MR. GREGORY: You, you talked in rather stark terms, however, about moving forward with this community center and mosque, saying that if you are in fact committed to being a healer, you don't go forward with the project, but if you were a warrior you do. Are you actually suggesting that he's a warrior...

MR. GIULIANI: No. I'm...

MR. GREGORY: ...because of his interest in building this?

MR. GIULIANI: I'm suggesting he's — seems to be — he seems, by his actions to be more interested in confrontation than in healing. Actually, if you go on with the rest of the that quote, I was talking about the pope and the issue that he faced several years ago with a convent outside of Auschwitz. There was a convent there, perfect right to have it. Many people in the Jewish people felt it was insensitive. The pope and the nuns could have said, "We're going to stay there. We have a right to do it. Let's have that confrontation. Bring it on." The pope, being a man of healing, wanting not to make things more painful for people that have already had way too much pain, said, "Let's withdraw. Let's pull it back." I say he has the same kind of choice.
The people he's hurting here most are the families of, of — the families that have lost loved ones down there. And they don't all feel that way, but 80 or 90 percent feel extremely hurt by this. It's making them relive the pain. They should be the ones to get the most consideration, not the imam, not me, not the president, not the mayor. They're the ones that are the most affected by this.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Imam "NYC mosque site not hollowed ground." (Page 2 of 3)

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