Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 9/8/2010 10:34:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 10:24:44 AM EDT by bluefalcon]
It's a generally accepted notion around here that irons or a red dot ought to do just fine for SHTF as it is unlikely, even in a Katrina like scenario that you would need to defend yourself at much more than 100m or so. That is to say, the best survival strategy would typically be to conserve ammo and avoid contact unless you absolutely have to shoot.

In the the last episode of The Colony one of their group is captured and then traded for food and supplies. I consider this to be a reasonably plausible scenario. If you determined that the member of your group who was captured was of enough value to attempt to get them back, a precision rifle, or one that could be pressed into the role, might be useful. At about 1:50 in the video, the captors show up and it seems to me that an accurate AR with magnified optics could have made short work of those three captors. Even a 4X ACOG equipped carbine could have done in a pinch but ideally an AR with a 6X or greater scope and a bipod could have taken the guy in the bed of the truck while any two other rifles could have taken the two other men with no significant risk to the hostage. This also underscores the importance of commo, especially secure comms.


How would you solve a similar situation? I realize it's just a TV show and both sides have made a lot of stupid errors and bad tactical decisions. I also realize that as useless as that Beka bitch is, if it were real she probably would have been sold or whored out a long time ago.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:39:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 10:40:12 AM EDT by Specop_007]
In SHTF events I dont see people taking prisoners.

ETA:

But I dont want to be the rainy cloud in your sky.

AR15 with red dot and 308 something or other with a 3-9 or fixed 9 power scope for a bit of huzzuh when I need it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:48:10 AM EDT
First, "The Colony" is a stupid show. Trying to show how people will respond to threats, and ignoring firearms is just dumb.

I can't really imagine a precision rifle being terribly useful in any (semi)realistic SHTF situation.

An AR with a 4x ACOG is not a precision rifle, and may be useful.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:48:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
In SHTF events I dont see people taking prisoners.

ETA:

But I dont want to be the rainy cloud in your sky.

AR15 with red dot and 308 something or other with a 3-9 or fixed 9 power scope for a bit of huzzuh when I need it.


I agree. If they think they can take you, they'll just kill you and take your wimmenz and your stuff. If they aren't sure they can take you, though, they might feel like they can leverage some stuff from you by capturing someone. Problem is, I doubt they would try to sell them back to you. They'd probably just go rent out her pussy. Definitely drives home the idea that no wimmenz should be allowed outside and no men should ever be outside alone or unarmed.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:54:52 AM EDT
My TA31-equipped M4gery launching Q3131A is still more than enough rifle to hit man-sized targets with boring regularity...at 400 yards (and I don't consider myself to be much of a rifleman).

...but, if you're looking for uber-precision, I've been very satisfied with my 18" LT Stealth and Nightforce combo. One ragged hole at 100 yards using cheap PPI Match.

It's the singer, not the song.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:02:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ceverett:
First, "The Colony" is a stupid show. Trying to show how people will respond to threats, and ignoring firearms is just dumb.

I can't really imagine a precision rifle being terribly useful in any (semi)realistic SHTF situation.

An AR with a 4x ACOG is not a precision rifle, and may be useful.


I know. I think the producers elected to eliminate firearms from the equation for safety. Even airsoft or paintball couldn't be used in a 24 hour a day "simulation" like the show. The show is pretty dumb but it has got me thinking and that's a good thing.


What about something like this:



I've since added a mini red dot at 1 'o clock. The scope is a 3-9X Burris. It is obviously not ideal for a long hump, but it's lighter than most precision oriented rifles. With the mini red dot it is capable of respectable speed though I obviously have a lot of room for improvement.


Basically, I've always figured I would carry a suppressed M4ish RRA with an Aimpoint on it if I was out and about looking for food or whatnot and I would carry my suppressed 11.5" iron sighted AR around home. That show got me thinking that there could be situations where a precise shot might be useful. Sure, that particular scene wouldn't likely play out in exactly that way, but it got me thinking about the usefulness of a rifle that is capable of a bit more accuracy.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:04:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
My TA31-equipped M4gery launching Q3131A is still more than enough rifle to hit man-sized targets with boring regularity...at 400 yards (and I don't consider myself to be much of a rifleman).

...but, if you're looking for uber-precision, I've been very satisfied with my 18" LT Stealth and Nightforce combo. One ragged hole at 100 yards using cheap PPI Match.

It's the singer, not the song.


No argument here. You gotta agree, though, it might not be a good idea to attempt a head shot on a hostage taker at 150m with an Aimpoint Comp ML3 on a 16" carbine. The TA31 ought to do just fine, though.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:08:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
No argument here. You gotta agree, though, it might not be a good idea to attempt a head shot on a hostage taker at 150m with an Aimpoint Comp ML3 on a 16" carbine. The TA31 ought to do just fine, though.

Agreed. If friendlies were downrange, I'd personally want a variable power, FFP optic.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:12:49 AM EDT
I think most people look at SHTF as defensive in nature and plan accordingly. Like you said, avoid contact and all..

In the situation you mention the bigger question to me is how that member of your group got caught to start with. Was he defenseless when he was taken? Was he alone and vulnerable? If so, there's a problem that should be addressed first.

I know that doesn't exactly answer your question but my first priority in analyzing the situation would be to come up with ways to avoid it before I start considering how I am going to get out of it if it happens.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:14:52 AM EDT
Either a good bolt .308-in factory offerings I'd look at a Remington R5 or an FN A3. For a Semi Auto I'd go with a lightly modded DPMS LR.

You can go custom but it gets REALLY expensive REALLY fast.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:15:51 AM EDT
We can all see a value in being able to precisely engage your enemy outside his effective range. It's unlikely you'd be in that position SHTF though. Money/load capacity is probably better spent elsewhere.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:18:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 1:02:16 PM EDT by danpass]
A Designated Marksman rifle (.223 or .308) is ideal IMO. Even iron sights are fine, just have to know how to leverage their capabilities.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:31:49 AM EDT
You're unlikely to engage targets past 200-300m and even that number is unlikely. You'd do fine with a standard M4, an Aimpoint, and some practice. Having a ACOG on a rifle isn't bad either.

You're not going to want to attract attention, you'd not likely be shooting things at distance, maybe if you were hunting for food or something.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:33:32 AM EDT
I currently have an ACOG on my 16", but I think a suppressor would be more useful. Maybe not, what do I know? Of course, as an avid ARFCOMMER, the only TRUE option is to get both
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:37:19 AM EDT
Three basic guns can cover all needs...

Lightweight handy gun you always have on you (M4A3)
Medium weight but more powerful (AR-10 Carbine, Rem 700 Sporter in 308, etc)
Heavyweight long range platform (AR-10T, Rem 700 PSS, etc in 308)

Personally, I could live with the first (M4A3) alone better then any of the other three. If I could only have two, give me the M4A3 and Rem 700 BDL in 308. A sporter weight in 308 with a good optic is easily a 600-yard capable system and perhaps further which is more then adequate for survival situations.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:38:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:45:02 AM EDT
16" Noveske Recon w/ 4x Acog. Nothing with batteries.

The Colony is stupid and full of fake fighting failure. Who would give a shit what women think in a SHTF scenario. Not me.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:45:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 11:47:02 AM EDT by patchouli]
I've put reliable hits on a 12" gong at 500 meters using an open-sighted mauser and 50 year old turkish ammo.


I think any off the rack hunting gun with a cheap scope is MORE than capable of all of arfcom's fapasies®.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:47:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By patchouli:
I've put reliable hits on a 12" gong at 500 meters using a mauser and 50 year old turkish ammo.


I think any off the rack hunting gun with a cheap scope is MORE than capable of all of arfcom's fapasies®.


Pretty much. There's very few situations where you'll be able to morally engage people further than 100' from you in any realistic SHTF scenarios.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:49:26 AM EDT
Best of all worlds - one rifle to get most of it done:

AR15 - collapsible stock, 20" (M16 style) barrel.
Scope and/or BUIS. Fixed, adjustable iron sights at the very least.
More importantly, a rifleman at the helm.
Just as light as most M4geries, good out to 500 yards if the shooter is.

In SHTF, there will not be many times that one needs to engage an enemy beyond about 200 yards.
If the need does arise, then getting things done out to 500 will be adequate in all but the most unpredictable set of unusual circumstances.


Can you get a better rifle for up close encounters? Sure.
Can you get a better rifle for long-distance engagement? Absolutely.
Can you get a better "compromise" that can realistically do both? There are a few that might, but none I'd rather have.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:49:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Snips:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
I've put reliable hits on a 12" gong at 500 meters using a mauser and 50 year old turkish ammo.


I think any off the rack hunting gun with a cheap scope is MORE than capable of all of arfcom's fapasies®.


Pretty much. There's very few situations where you'll be able to morally engage people further than 100' from you in any realistic SHTF scenarios.

20k acre cattle ranch + mobile cattle rustlers = sufficient cause to engage from further than 100' with a precision rifle.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:50:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
First, "The Colony" is a stupid show. Trying to show how people will respond to threats, and ignoring firearms is just dumb.

I can't really imagine a precision rifle being terribly useful in any (semi)realistic SHTF situation.

An AR with a 4x ACOG is not a precision rifle, and may be useful.


I know. I think the producers elected to eliminate firearms from the equation for safety. Even airsoft or paintball couldn't be used in a 24 hour a day "simulation" like the show. The show is pretty dumb but it has got me thinking and that's a good thing.


What about something like this:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2cnxirl.jpg

I've since added a mini red dot at 1 'o clock. The scope is a 3-9X Burris. It is obviously not ideal for a long hump, but it's lighter than most precision oriented rifles. With the mini red dot it is capable of respectable speed though I obviously have a lot of room for improvement.


Basically, I've always figured I would carry a suppressed M4ish RRA with an Aimpoint on it if I was out and about looking for food or whatnot and I would carry my suppressed 11.5" iron sighted AR around home. That show got me thinking that there could be situations where a precise shot might be useful. Sure, that particular scene wouldn't likely play out in exactly that way, but it got me thinking about the usefulness of a rifle that is capable of a bit more accuracy.


As to the show, there's no need to have "bad guys" the first season started off as just the 'colonists' alone, building stuff, scavenging, getting along. And it was good. Having bad guys and no weapons will never be more than .

As to the rifle, I don't know that would consider much in 5.56 to be a "precision rifle", at least for social work. That's more designated marksmen territory to me, and a reasonable addition to a SHTF arsenal.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:51:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Three basic guns can cover all needs...

Lightweight handy gun you always have on you (M4A3)
Medium weight but more powerful (AR-10 Carbine, Rem 700 Sporter in 308, etc)
Heavyweight long range platform (AR-10T, Rem 700 PSS, etc in 308)

Personally, I could live with the first (M4A3) alone better then any of the other three. If I could only have two, give me the M4A3 and Rem 700 BDL in 308. A sporter weight in 308 with a good optic is easily a 600-yard capable system and perhaps further which is more then adequate for survival situations.


You forgot a .22. I mean a .22LR. Squirrels, rabbits and birds don't leave much meat when hit with a .223

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:54:50 AM EDT
More important than precision/optics would be a sound suppressor. In the TV scenario you described, if a guy fell over and a shot was heard, the other two would be behind cover immediately. The TV script you are looking for is: Guy falls over, and the other two say, "Bubba, what's wrong?" Then, the second one goes down, and the other says, "Cletus, WTF?" Then the third one goes down.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:55:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 12:01:51 PM EDT by MOS2111]
meh, I can pick the eye I want to shoot at 100.
my moa shooting ability starts to go at about 300 (3-4 inch groups).
1inch groups of 20 rounds with the can. After the first half mag the POI shifts 1/2 inch with the hot can.

It gets more use as a spotter rife or for observation. The optic is 16x.
Its a tool in the tool box.

Got an Acog too - TA31F (red chevron 800yd bullet drop comp)

This is my go to rifle. Optic can be used up close and can do headshots all day at 200, and can hit man sized out to 500 in 20 mph with no issue and 55gn. The only drawback I have found is shooting at a close stationary target from a moving vehicle.

This rilfe also is a tool in the tool box, different uses and all that.
Over all I would rather have the acog on this rifle than a can. (I can do both) The can is very heavy on the front and throws the balance. If you have to get one, get the ACOG. I ended up building an SBR to host the can most of the time....
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:57:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Snips:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
I've put reliable hits on a 12" gong at 500 meters using a mauser and 50 year old turkish ammo.


I think any off the rack hunting gun with a cheap scope is MORE than capable of all of arfcom's fapasies®.


Pretty much. There's very few situations where you'll be able to morally engage people further than 100' from you in any realistic SHTF scenarios.

20k acre cattle ranch + mobile cattle rustlers = sufficient cause to engage from further than 100' with a precision rifle.


I highly doubt the OP will run into this situation.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:58:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Snips:
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Snips:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
I've put reliable hits on a 12" gong at 500 meters using a mauser and 50 year old turkish ammo.


I think any off the rack hunting gun with a cheap scope is MORE than capable of all of arfcom's fapasies®.


Pretty much. There's very few situations where you'll be able to morally engage people further than 100' from you in any realistic SHTF scenarios.

20k acre cattle ranch + mobile cattle rustlers = sufficient cause to engage from further than 100' with a precision rifle.


I highly doubt the OP will run into this situation.

No, but I could.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:00:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
First, "The Colony" is a stupid show. Trying to show how people will respond to threats, and ignoring firearms is just dumb.

I can't really imagine a precision rifle being terribly useful in any (semi)realistic SHTF situation.

An AR with a 4x ACOG is not a precision rifle, and may be useful.


I know. I think the producers elected to eliminate firearms from the equation for safety. Even airsoft or paintball couldn't be used in a 24 hour a day "simulation" like the show. The show is pretty dumb but it has got me thinking and that's a good thing.


What about something like this:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2cnxirl.jpg

I've since added a mini red dot at 1 'o clock. The scope is a 3-9X Burris. It is obviously not ideal for a long hump, but it's lighter than most precision oriented rifles. With the mini red dot it is capable of respectable speed though I obviously have a lot of room for improvement.


Basically, I've always figured I would carry a suppressed M4ish RRA with an Aimpoint on it if I was out and about looking for food or whatnot and I would carry my suppressed 11.5" iron sighted AR around home. That show got me thinking that there could be situations where a precise shot might be useful. Sure, that particular scene wouldn't likely play out in exactly that way, but it got me thinking about the usefulness of a rifle that is capable of a bit more accuracy.


Nice, just finished something similar. What handguard is that?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:02:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 12:03:01 PM EDT by patchouli]

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
meh, I can pick the eye I want to shoot at 100.
my moa shooting ability starts to go at about 300 (3-4 inch groups).
1inch groups of 20 rounds with the can. After the first half mag the POI shifts 1/2 inch with the hot can.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/mos21112/IMG_3550.jpg
It gets more use as a spotter rife or for observation. The optic is 16x.
Its a tool in the tool box.


Meh, I can pick the eye I want to shoot at 100 using a 300 dollar savage 110 .223 combo that came with a cheap 3-9x simmons scope.

It was the first rifle I bought. I learned to reload with it, I shot coyotes and rabbits and paper and rocks and cans and bottles with it.

Your scope mount probably costs the same as that cheap but capable rifle.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:06:17 PM EDT
I used to be big on .308 for SHTF but the more I think about it lately, the more I think a rifle in 5.56 is the way to go. Being able to engage multiple targets quickly has a lot of value. The bigger you go caliber wise, the longer it's going to take to get back on target between shots and 5.56 is plenty capable out to 500m. If I could only take one rifle, it would most probably be something like a 16 or 18 incher AR with something like a 6x ACOG, a TA648, with a Docter red dot on top.

If I could take 2 rifles, it would be something along the lines of a Mk18 with just an Aimpoint micro and an AN-PEQ2 with a 20 rounder in the mag well and 30s in back up as well as a 20in free floated and accurized AR15 with a variable power scope. I think the ability to be inconspicuous would be a big advantage, hence the choice of a small AR like a Mk18 which would conceal well under a medium length coat.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:13:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Milquetoast:
More important than precision/optics would be a sound suppressor. In the TV scenario you described, if a guy fell over and a shot was heard, the other two would be behind cover immediately. The TV script you are looking for is: Guy falls over, and the other two say, "Bubba, what's wrong?" Then, the second one goes down, and the other says, "Cletus, WTF?" Then the third one goes down.


I'm not so sure about that. As I mentioned, though, the smart way to get your person back is with a marksman on the hostage taker and at least one shooter on the driver. Coordinate via radio and the driver is shot the instant the marksman breaks the shot for the hostage taker. Man in the open by the boat can be engaged by any other rifle or the first two as is convenient. Fiberglass boats don't make good cover.

A suppressor would be useful (and I have one), but it wouldn't make Bubba go "Gee, Cletus, why you leakin?"
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:15:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DirtyDrew:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
First, "The Colony" is a stupid show. Trying to show how people will respond to threats, and ignoring firearms is just dumb.

I can't really imagine a precision rifle being terribly useful in any (semi)realistic SHTF situation.

An AR with a 4x ACOG is not a precision rifle, and may be useful.


I know. I think the producers elected to eliminate firearms from the equation for safety. Even airsoft or paintball couldn't be used in a 24 hour a day "simulation" like the show. The show is pretty dumb but it has got me thinking and that's a good thing.


What about something like this:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2cnxirl.jpg

I've since added a mini red dot at 1 'o clock. The scope is a 3-9X Burris. It is obviously not ideal for a long hump, but it's lighter than most precision oriented rifles. With the mini red dot it is capable of respectable speed though I obviously have a lot of room for improvement.


Basically, I've always figured I would carry a suppressed M4ish RRA with an Aimpoint on it if I was out and about looking for food or whatnot and I would carry my suppressed 11.5" iron sighted AR around home. That show got me thinking that there could be situations where a precise shot might be useful. Sure, that particular scene wouldn't likely play out in exactly that way, but it got me thinking about the usefulness of a rifle that is capable of a bit more accuracy.


Nice, just finished something similar. What handguard is that?


I'm pretty sure it's a VTac. I got the upper in trade for a varmint upper.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:18:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheCanuck:
I used to be big on .308 for SHTF but the more I think about it lately, the more I think a rifle in 5.56 is the way to go. Being able to engage multiple targets quickly has a lot of value. The bigger you go caliber wise, the longer it's going to take to get back on target between shots and 5.56 is plenty capable out to 500m. If I could only take one rifle, it would most probably be something like a 16 or 18 incher AR with something like a 6x ACOG, a TA648, with a Docter red dot on top.

If I could take 2 rifles, it would be something along the lines of a Mk18 with just an Aimpoint micro and an AN-PEQ2 with a 20 rounder in the mag well and 30s in back up as well as a 20in free floated and accurized AR15 with a variable power scope. I think the ability to be inconspicuous would be a big advantage, hence the choice of a small AR like a Mk18 which would conceal well under a medium length coat.


You and I have been thinking the same thing. The best reason I can come up with for bigger calibers would be barrier penetration, and then you need to go big or go home.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:19:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Will:
Either a good bolt .308-in factory offerings I'd look at a Remington R5 or an FN A3. For a Semi Auto I'd go with a lightly modded DPMS LR.

You can go custom but it gets REALLY expensive REALLY fast.


Any good bolt gun in common .30cal (like .308 or .30-06, etc) will work just fine with decent glass for the scenario the OP described. Hell a varmint AR rig would work fine as well.
Its more about the nut behind the butt then the hardware...
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:22:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 12:23:07 PM EDT by VBC]
Whatever the gear, if you don't practice at those ranges, then making 300 yard headshots to free a hostage is just a pipe dream.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:23:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


I'm not so sure about that. As I mentioned, though, the smart way to get your person back is with a marksman on the hostage taker and at least one shooter on the driver. Coordinate via radio and the driver is shot the instant the marksman breaks the shot for the hostage taker. Man in the open by the boat can be engaged by any other rifle or the first two as is convenient. Fiberglass boats don't make good cover.

A suppressor would be useful (and I have one), but it wouldn't make Bubba go "Gee, Cletus, why you leakin?"



Fuck that. Shoot his friends and keep his fat ass for entertainment and then food.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:24:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Snips:
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Snips:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
I've put reliable hits on a 12" gong at 500 meters using a mauser and 50 year old turkish ammo.


I think any off the rack hunting gun with a cheap scope is MORE than capable of all of arfcom's fapasies®.


Pretty much. There's very few situations where you'll be able to morally engage people further than 100' from you in any realistic SHTF scenarios.

20k acre cattle ranch + mobile cattle rustlers = sufficient cause to engage from further than 100' with a precision rifle.


I highly doubt the OP will run into this situation.


Hell no.

I might find use for long range or precision shooting in fixed defense of my BOL. There is a lot of open space and if someone has already demonstrated themselves to be hostile, I'd just as soon shoot them in the back rather than let them get away. I'd do the same if I saw them again on another occasion. The whole hostage thing is pretty far fetched but it made me think and there may be other reasons that I just can't come up with right now.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:25:29 PM EDT
probably just need a 20in barrel with a simple scope....nothing too high speed.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:25:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


I'm not so sure about that. As I mentioned, though, the smart way to get your person back is with a marksman on the hostage taker and at least one shooter on the driver. Coordinate via radio and the driver is shot the instant the marksman breaks the shot for the hostage taker. Man in the open by the boat can be engaged by any other rifle or the first two as is convenient. Fiberglass boats don't make good cover.

A suppressor would be useful (and I have one), but it wouldn't make Bubba go "Gee, Cletus, why you leakin?"



Fuck that. Shoot his friends and keep his fat ass for entertainment and then food.




Might need to hit up Feral for his bacon recipe.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:26:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By DirtyDrew:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
First, "The Colony" is a stupid show. Trying to show how people will respond to threats, and ignoring firearms is just dumb.

I can't really imagine a precision rifle being terribly useful in any (semi)realistic SHTF situation.

An AR with a 4x ACOG is not a precision rifle, and may be useful.


I know. I think the producers elected to eliminate firearms from the equation for safety. Even airsoft or paintball couldn't be used in a 24 hour a day "simulation" like the show. The show is pretty dumb but it has got me thinking and that's a good thing.


What about something like this:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2cnxirl.jpg

I've since added a mini red dot at 1 'o clock. The scope is a 3-9X Burris. It is obviously not ideal for a long hump, but it's lighter than most precision oriented rifles. With the mini red dot it is capable of respectable speed though I obviously have a lot of room for improvement.


Basically, I've always figured I would carry a suppressed M4ish RRA with an Aimpoint on it if I was out and about looking for food or whatnot and I would carry my suppressed 11.5" iron sighted AR around home. That show got me thinking that there could be situations where a precise shot might be useful. Sure, that particular scene wouldn't likely play out in exactly that way, but it got me thinking about the usefulness of a rifle that is capable of a bit more accuracy.


Nice, just finished something similar. What handguard is that?


I'm pretty sure it's a VTac. I got the upper in trade for a varmint upper.



That was my first thought but it doesnt have the normal VTAC 'tapered' barrel nut.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:27:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 12:33:18 PM EDT by MOS2111]
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By MOS2111:
meh, I can pick the eye I want to shoot at 100.
my moa shooting ability starts to go at about 300 (3-4 inch groups).
1inch groups of 20 rounds with the can. After the first half mag the POI shifts 1/2 inch with the hot can.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/mos21112/IMG_3550.jpg
It gets more use as a spotter rife or for observation. The optic is 16x.
Its a tool in the tool box.


Meh, I can pick the eye I want to shoot at 100 using a 300 dollar savage 110 .223 combo that came with a cheap 3-9x simmons scope. (more than 10 rounds to include a cold bore?)

It was the first rifle I bought. I learned to reload with it, I shot coyotes and rabbits and paper and rocks and cans and bottles with it.

Your scope mount probably costs the same as that cheap but capable rifle.


I will admit I have put more money into this than I would need to to make it shoot the way it does, but that mounts ability to return to zero regardless and to hold up to the abuse I know it will is a very comforting factor. Your rifle also cannot ID targets at the distance mine can, nor can you engage multiple targets as quickly (especially with the can) nor can your rifle allow you to SEE your impact at distance or to fire and not disclose your location.

But how far out can you get with it? My group size and distance are what set this aside from your rifle.... Not knocking it. Just saying its not in the same league.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:28:15 PM EDT
It should be fairly simple for you to train to hit man size targets with irons/dot out to 500 meters with any AR platform.

Headshots should be relatively easy with in 200 or 150 meters and closer in supported conditions.

This is one reason for my quest to make the lightest practical AR out there - the ease of off hand shooting.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:30:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
It should be fairly simple for you to train to hit man size targets with irons/dot out to 500 meters with any AR platform.

Headshots should be relatively easy with in 200 or 150 meters and closer in supported conditions.

This is one reason for my quest to make the lightest practical AR out there - the ease of off hand shooting.


It should be and can be. It requires practice.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:32:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MOS2111:

But how far out can you get with it? My group size and distance are what set this aside from your rifle.... Not knocking it. Just saying.


I've never shot that rifle over 200, but I assume it is dependent on the ballistics of the cartridge. I used to get submoa with it at 100 meters with my handloads. That was about 12 years ago. I haven't shot the rifle in about 10 years. It would be fun to take it out again.


I'm not saying my rifle is better than yours. Clearly yours is faster and better, but for the money, it can accomplish what the OP set up as the scenario. Hell, I believe any bubba with any rifle could.



Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:36:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By patchouli:

Originally Posted By MOS2111:

But how far out can you get with it? My group size and distance are what set this aside from your rifle.... Not knocking it. Just saying.


I've never shot that rifle over 200, but I assume it is dependent on the ballistics of the cartridge. I used to get submoa with it at 100 meters with my handloads. That was about 12 years ago. I haven't shot the rifle in about 10 years. It would be fun to take it out again.


I'm not saying my rifle is better than yours. Clearly yours is faster and better, but for the money, it can accomplish what the OP set up as the scenario. Hell, I believe any bubba with any rifle could.





Completely agree, and understood. I built this rifle for a specific role.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:38:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DonKey153:
Originally Posted By TheCanuck:
I used to be big on .308 for SHTF but the more I think about it lately, the more I think a rifle in 5.56 is the way to go. Being able to engage multiple targets quickly has a lot of value. The bigger you go caliber wise, the longer it's going to take to get back on target between shots and 5.56 is plenty capable out to 500m. If I could only take one rifle, it would most probably be something like a 16 or 18 incher AR with something like a 6x ACOG, a TA648, with a Docter red dot on top.

If I could take 2 rifles, it would be something along the lines of a Mk18 with just an Aimpoint micro and an AN-PEQ2 with a 20 rounder in the mag well and 30s in back up as well as a 20in free floated and accurized AR15 with a variable power scope. I think the ability to be inconspicuous would be a big advantage, hence the choice of a small AR like a Mk18 which would conceal well under a medium length coat.


You and I have been thinking the same thing. The best reason I can come up with for bigger calibers would be barrier penetration, and then you need to go big or go home.


This in red. SHTF scenarios can well include hoofing it for long distances. Light rifles rule in this case. Throw on a 4 or 6 x scope - more is probably wasted - you can't realistically prepare for every eventuality but a rifle like that would cover a lot of ground.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:39:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 1:24:34 PM EDT by bluefalcon]
Originally Posted By DirtyDrew:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By DirtyDrew:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
First, "The Colony" is a stupid show. Trying to show how people will respond to threats, and ignoring firearms is just dumb.

I can't really imagine a precision rifle being terribly useful in any (semi)realistic SHTF situation.

An AR with a 4x ACOG is not a precision rifle, and may be useful.


I know. I think the producers elected to eliminate firearms from the equation for safety. Even airsoft or paintball couldn't be used in a 24 hour a day "simulation" like the show. The show is pretty dumb but it has got me thinking and that's a good thing.


What about something like this:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2cnxirl.jpg

I've since added a mini red dot at 1 'o clock. The scope is a 3-9X Burris. It is obviously not ideal for a long hump, but it's lighter than most precision oriented rifles. With the mini red dot it is capable of respectable speed though I obviously have a lot of room for improvement.


Basically, I've always figured I would carry a suppressed M4ish RRA with an Aimpoint on it if I was out and about looking for food or whatnot and I would carry my suppressed 11.5" iron sighted AR around home. That show got me thinking that there could be situations where a precise shot might be useful. Sure, that particular scene wouldn't likely play out in exactly that way, but it got me thinking about the usefulness of a rifle that is capable of a bit more accuracy.


Nice, just finished something similar. What handguard is that?


I'm pretty sure it's a VTac. I got the upper in trade for a varmint upper.



That was my first thought but it doesnt have the normal VTAC 'tapered' barrel nut.


It is. You just can't really see it in that pic. I'll shoot another one in a minute here.

ETA: better pic

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:40:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MOS2111:

Completely agree, and understood. I built this rifle for a specific role.


I want to build something similar some day. But I always come up with some other gun to buy or build. I think my next project (I am stalled in it right now, due to lack of interest) is to build a super accurate 10/22. Then a 1911 (and I don't even like 1911's).

Then maybe the accurate long range AR. (I have a 20" barrel and upper that I bought for the project MANY years ago, but they are "out of date/fad.")
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:41:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
In SHTF events I dont see people taking prisoners.

ETA:

But I dont want to be the rainy cloud in your sky.

AR15 with red dot and 308 something or other with a 3-9 or fixed 9 power scope for a bit of huzzuh when I need it.


Things to remember about SHTF...

Money is going to be worthless. Barter will be king. The top items for barter in no particular order will most likely be...

1. food
2. potable water
3. ammunition
4. clothing
5. women (sorry but pussy is going to be worth more than gold if the SHTF REAL bad)
6. gasoline/diesel
8. survival goods like knives, fishing supplies
9. livestock
10. vehicles

So, yeah, I can see prisoners being taken, women for sex slaves and children too possibly.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:41:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DonKey153:
Originally Posted By TheCanuck:
I used to be big on .308 for SHTF but the more I think about it lately, the more I think a rifle in 5.56 is the way to go. Being able to engage multiple targets quickly has a lot of value. The bigger you go caliber wise, the longer it's going to take to get back on target between shots and 5.56 is plenty capable out to 500m. If I could only take one rifle, it would most probably be something like a 16 or 18 incher AR with something like a 6x ACOG, a TA648, with a Docter red dot on top.

If I could take 2 rifles, it would be something along the lines of a Mk18 with just an Aimpoint micro and an AN-PEQ2 with a 20 rounder in the mag well and 30s in back up as well as a 20in free floated and accurized AR15 with a variable power scope. I think the ability to be inconspicuous would be a big advantage, hence the choice of a small AR like a Mk18 which would conceal well under a medium length coat.


You and I have been thinking the same thing. The best reason I can come up with for bigger calibers would be barrier penetration, and then you need to go big or go home.
Something like this if I can only take one gun


and this if I can take 2



Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:56:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheCanuck:
I used to be big on .308 for SHTF but the more I think about it lately, the more I think a rifle in 5.56 is the way to go. Being able to engage multiple targets quickly has a lot of value. The bigger you go caliber wise, the longer it's going to take to get back on target between shots and 5.56 is plenty capable out to 500m. If I could only take one rifle, it would most probably be something like a 16 or 18 incher AR with something like a 6x ACOG, a TA648, with a Docter red dot on top.

If I could take 2 rifles, it would be something along the lines of a Mk18 with just an Aimpoint micro and an AN-PEQ2 with a 20 rounder in the mag well and 30s in back up as well as a 20in free floated and accurized AR15 with a variable power scope. I think the ability to be inconspicuous would be a big advantage, hence the choice of a small AR like a Mk18 which would conceal well under a medium length coat.


I have also become a .223 convert after humping a AR-10 on a 6 mile hike this weekend. You are carrying a lot of power and reduced ammo load. .308 is nice to have, but the weight in other suppliesyou have to give up for just a basic ammo supply is too high. I can't see how those guys in Vietnam did it with full battle gear and M-14's.

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top