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Posted: 9/3/2010 5:51:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
My Wife was hit damn near head on by a drunk driver back in 1989, Police estimated he was going 47 MPH, she was going 50 MPH, The speedometer was stuck at 50. She was in a 1995 Caprice, he was in a 1981 Olds station wagon, neither small cars. Thank God, and the fact she was in a large car, and seat belted in, We ( myself and 5 kids ) came close to losing her. She still has some issues from it with her shoulder sometimes. I believe in karma, so I won't wish anything bad on anyone, but maybe if you got called from work to come to the hospital ASAP because a loved one " might not make it " because of a drunk driver, you might feel different about checkpoints. I hope they catch thousands this week end. 
I agree with you, although I'd rather it be more patrols than checkpoints. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 5:55:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
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What's AO? Its a term high speed tacticool civilians use to describe their hoods...... 
It's ok. I'm Chairborne Qualified. 
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Posted: 9/3/2010 5:59:59 PM EDT
[#3]
what a cluster fuck of a thread
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Posted: 9/3/2010 6:04:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Dont worry, its for your safety revenue Not necessarily endorsing checkpoints but in my area they don't ticket for things like registration, they are strictly looking for DUI's. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 6:06:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: DOH!!!! You are right , I dropped a column in the spreadsheet I was reading and list ALL auto fatalities ..... Meaning almost 3 times as many gun deaths as DUI How many are killed each year due to speeding? I can't find the figure anywhere. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 6:07:28 PM EDT
[#6]
I don't like checkpoints.
Years ago I lived in Boulder. The town found it necessary to stop an annual Halloween event by pulling everyone over and checking licenses. If you didn't live in Boulder or have a good reason they wouldn't let you in the damn town. Unfortunately I lived on one of the major streets used to get into the town. This was a major pain in the ass. I do not like drunk drivers either. People need to be free. Some will make bad choices and when they get caught they suffer the consequences. Pulling everyone over is fucked up. What is a minr infringement on a constitutional right. Should be be able to torture confessions out of people just a little? |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 6:10:09 PM EDT
[#7]
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Quoted:[/span
So if, a few years from now, the Obama appointees hear another firearms case and a 5-4 majority decides that, "Banning all civilian ownership of firearms is necessary to combat gang violence & therefore outweighs the minor infringement of the 2A." All you DUI checkpoint supporters are OK with that???  Of course they are. We can't let something like rights get in the way of "safety". |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 6:15:22 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm glad to see this pisses others off as much as me. Heres a crazy idea instead of allowing the police to stop everyone with no reasonable suspicion, lets let them stake out bar parking lots and stop check everyone leaving. It's a truely fucked up line of logic that allows everyone to be stopped because of the danger of DUIs, but dosen't allow everyone leaving a place that sells liquor to be stopped.
If it's all about safety why don;t we just put a cop with a breathalizer in every bar parking lot and require everyone leaving to blow? Caue thats a hell of a lot less of an intrusion on the rights of the majority us that don't drink and drive. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 6:18:38 PM EDT
[#9]
as well as a lot of you guys, i ride a motorcycle. if they ''violate'' some drunk's rights, and keep that goober from running me over on my triumph,, jolly good. i ain't got nothing against drinking a beer, but, i drink mine in my yard, in the woods. one beer is enough to keep me off my bike, and out of my truck, no tickets for me this week-end.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 6:38:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
what a cluster fuck of a thread Always is... 
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Posted: 9/3/2010 6:45:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Honestly - BFD. If the minor delay from a properly run/staffed checkpoint causes you that much grief you're wound way too tight IMO. I haven't been through many (to use your word) properly run checkpoints. Most of the last dozen I've been through took over an hour.z |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:33:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I'm glad to see this pisses others off as much as me. Heres a crazy idea instead of allowing the police to stop everyone with no reasonable suspicion, lets let them stake out bar parking lots and stop check everyone leaving. It's a truely fucked up line of logic that allows everyone to be stopped because of the danger of DUIs, but dosen't allow everyone leaving a place that sells liquor to be stopped. If it's all about safety why don;t we just put a cop with a breathalizer in every bar parking lot and require everyone leaving to blow? Caue thats a hell of a lot less of an intrusion on the rights of the majority us that don't drink and drive. Actually, having a breathalyzer at a bar would be kind of useful. Cars have speedometers so you know if you are speeding. If you have a few beers, over a couple of hours with some food, it is hard to say how much alcohol is in your system. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how high and other how low they are. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:41:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm glad to see this pisses others off as much as me. Heres a crazy idea instead of allowing the police to stop everyone with no reasonable suspicion, lets let them stake out bar parking lots and stop check everyone leaving. It's a truely fucked up line of logic that allows everyone to be stopped because of the danger of DUIs, but dosen't allow everyone leaving a place that sells liquor to be stopped. If it's all about safety why don;t we just put a cop with a breathalizer in every bar parking lot and require everyone leaving to blow? Caue thats a hell of a lot less of an intrusion on the rights of the majority us that don't drink and drive. Actually, having a breathalyzer at a bar would be kind of useful. Cars have speedometers so you know if you are speeding. If you have a few beers, over a couple of hours with some food, it is hard to say how much alcohol is in your system. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how high and other how low they are. I think that would open a big legal can 'o worms if bars allowed operating breathalyzers on their premises... |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:48:36 PM EDT
[#14]
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good too many innocent people get killed by drunks. A lot of innocent people die from guns too, should we hand them in for inspection at the whim of LEOs w/ NO warrants and NO PC? More DUI deaths and injuries, but good comparison. "U.S. for 2006, there were 30896 deaths from firearms" "2006 US DUI fatalities 38,648" Certainly close enough to be compared According to MADD In 2006, 13,470 people were killed in alcohol-impaired-driving crashes. DOH!!!! You are right , I dropped a column in the spreadsheet I was reading and list ALL auto fatalities ..... Meaning almost 3 times as many gun deaths as DUI Are you using figures that include suicide? That is the number one firearm death and isn't a fair comparison of a threat to others. You need to pull murder w/firearm numbers. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:51:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
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good too many innocent people get killed by drunks. A lot of innocent people die from guns too, should we hand them in for inspection at the whim of LEOs w/ NO warrants and NO PC? More DUI deaths and injuries, but good comparison. "U.S. for 2006, there were 30896 deaths from firearms" "2006 US DUI fatalities 38,648" Certainly close enough to be compared According to MADD In 2006, 13,470 people were killed in alcohol-impaired-driving crashes. DOH!!!! You are right , I dropped a column in the spreadsheet I was reading and list ALL auto fatalities ..... Meaning almost 3 times as many gun deaths as DUI Are you using figures that include suicide? That is the number one firearm death and isn't a fair comparison of a threat to others. You need to pull murder w/firearm numbers. But you'd also have to pull the numbers of the actual victims of drunks. You can't really exclude drunks that kill themselves in auto accidents from the suicide catagory as some do actually set out to do just that. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:56:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I'm glad to see this pisses others off as much as me. Heres a crazy idea instead of allowing the police to stop everyone with no reasonable suspicion, lets let them stake out bar parking lots and stop check everyone leaving. It's a truely fucked up line of logic that allows everyone to be stopped because of the danger of DUIs, but dosen't allow everyone leaving a place that sells liquor to be stopped. If it's all about safety why don;t we just put a cop with a breathalizer in every bar parking lot and require everyone leaving to blow? Caue thats a hell of a lot less of an intrusion on the rights of the majority us that don't drink and drive. Actually, having a breathalyzer at a bar would be kind of useful. Cars have speedometers so you know if you are speeding. If you have a few beers, over a couple of hours with some food, it is hard to say how much alcohol is in your system. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how high and other how low they are. I think that would open a big legal can 'o worms if bars allowed operating breathalyzers on their premises... Screw the bar having any say in it what so ever. Have a check point at the end of the parking lot. I'm sick of my rights being infringed so some drunk can pull right out of a bar with a virtual guarantee that they will not be stopped within a mile of the place. Check point are a waste of 95% of the people who go through thems time. Why should law abiding citizens rights be eroded because of the minority? Just set a cop in every bar and liquor store parking lot. If just driving around is PC for a check point then they should be able to breathalize everyone that comes out of a place that sells liquor the second thye put a key in the ignition. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 8:56:55 PM EDT
[#17]
I am completely and totally against checkpoints. Exchanging freedom for safety= slippery slope
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:17:51 PM EDT
[#18]
One of my workers girlfriend got pulled over at a checkpoint on the 4th of july. She rolled down the window and said loudly 'Hell yea I suck cock!' and was told to leave.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:19:12 PM EDT
[#19]
It's a bunch of shit.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:19:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I have a big problem with driving drunk. me to, swerve too much
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:29:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Just don't drink and drive.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:38:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did the SC also uphold that making a u-turn to avoid a checkpoint gives the police probable cause to stop you? Because that's what normally happens. If it's an illegal u-turn it's a righteous stop. Brian It's only illegal if the DOT has a posted no u-turn sign (or if you do it in a reckless/dangerous manner). Depends on state law. No u-turn in a business district in WI, no u-turn at a corner or grade where you can't be seen from 500' away, and no u-turn where it would interfere with other traffic. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:42:51 PM EDT
[#23]
I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:45:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. Go Jonny! |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:57:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. I'm moving to OK. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:06:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:11:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop RS of what? Check points dont have RS or PC. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:12:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: I am completely and totally against checkpoints. Exchanging freedom for safety= slippery slope +1. Ask the folks in the UK, or Australia... |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:14:16 PM EDT
[#29]
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I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop Where I'm from the cops need PC to stop an offender. RS is like a traffic officer stopping someone who he thinks might run a red light. It just don't jive with me. I see, I'm not familiar with OK case law. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:15:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop Where I'm from the cops need PC to stop an offender. RS is like a traffic officer stopping someone who he thinks might run a red light. It just dont jive with me. No, you need RS for a traffic stop. http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=4302 Stopping someone because you think they will run a red light would be a "hunch". ETA: Or, are you trying to tell me Terry VS Ohio doesn't apply to the state of OK? |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:17:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. Quoted: It's a bunch of shit. No problems from me. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:20:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop Where I'm from the cops need PC to stop an offender. RS is like a traffic officer stopping someone who he thinks might run a red light. It just dont jive with me. No, you need RS for a traffic stop. http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=4302 Stopping someone because you think they will run a red light would be a "hunch". ETA: Or, are you trying to tell me Terry VS Ohio doesn't apply to the state of OK? No Im not saying that at all. Im just saying check points are crap in my opinion. They stop and detain folks based on nothing and that I have a problem with. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:28:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop Where I'm from the cops need PC to stop an offender. RS is like a traffic officer stopping someone who he thinks might run a red light. It just dont jive with me. No, you need RS for a traffic stop. http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=4302 Stopping someone because you think they will run a red light would be a "hunch". ETA: Or, are you trying to tell me Terry VS Ohio doesn't apply to the state of OK? No Im not saying that at all. Im just saying check points are crap in my opinion. They stop and detain folks based on nothing and that I have a problem with. Right, I understand that and I agree completely. I'm discussing your statement that you need probable cause to stop/detain someone. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:31:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop Where I'm from the cops need PC to stop an offender. RS is like a traffic officer stopping someone who he thinks might run a red light. It just don't jive with me. I see, I'm not familiar with OK case law. I dont think you understand what I'm trying to say. I understand police need RS and PC to stop and or arrest folks. But, check points have neither of the two. LE just camps in an area and wait for folks to drive through then detain them based on nothing, no PC or RS. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:37:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop Where I'm from the cops need PC to stop an offender. RS is like a traffic officer stopping someone who he thinks might run a red light. It just dont jive with me. No, you need RS for a traffic stop. http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=4302 Stopping someone because you think they will run a red light would be a "hunch". ETA: Or, are you trying to tell me Terry VS Ohio doesn't apply to the state of OK? No Im not saying that at all. Im just saying check points are crap in my opinion. They stop and detain folks based on nothing and that I have a problem with. Right, I understand that and I agree completely. I'm discussing your statement that you need probable cause to stop/detain someone. You're right, I should have used better articulation, very sleepy. I was referring to stoping said traffic violation then arresting for DUI, that sort of thing. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:38:19 PM EDT
[#36]
They are doing it in Austin this weekend as well, so just make sure you dont sell a firearm to an illegal with a Texas DL and you will be fine.
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:39:27 PM EDT
[#37]
I think I would be a bit more OK with checkpoints if they operated like a border checkpoint.
"Have you been drinking today?" "No." <quick glance to see if anything stands out indicating drinking> "Have a nice day." <gone within 1 minute of stopping> Instead of them nailing anyone with expired insurance/DL/tags, seatbelt violations, and anything else they feel like popping people for. If the stated goal is to nail drunks, do just that and not an ounce more. If LE wants to nail people for other things, then try to get a court ruling stating you can setup checkpoints for those things, and see how it goes. ETA: Then there are these places where they run checkpoints on roads with a good bunch of traffic and you end up sitting there forever since they are digging into every person trying to bust them for anything, wasting everyone's time. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:43:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: They are doing it in Austin this weekend as well, so just make sure you dont sell a firearm to an illegal with a Texas DL and you will be fine. Ya its ok for an illegal to have a DL and live here in the U.S. but you better not sell a gun to one or its prison time. Meanwhile, said illegal walks out of the court house free as a bird. How about this: CLOSE THE FREAKING BORDER & DEPORT ILLEGALS!
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:53:04 PM EDT
[#39]
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I know my fellow LEO friends might flame me for this but, I'm not big on "check points." Last time I checked, peace officers need probable cause to stop & detain folks. PC for arrest RS for stop Where I'm from the cops need PC to stop an offender. RS is like a traffic officer stopping someone who he thinks might run a red light. It just don't jive with me. I see, I'm not familiar with OK case law. I dont think you understand what I'm trying to say. I understand police need RS and PC to stop and or arrest folks. But, check points have neither of the two. LE just camps in an area and wait for folks to drive through then detain them based on nothing, no PC or RS. I see, checkpoints are no beuno in my state. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 10:54:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
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Did the SC also uphold that making a u-turn to avoid a checkpoint gives the police probable cause to stop you? Because that's what normally happens. If it's an illegal u-turn it's a righteous stop. Brian If I ever encounter a checkpoint, I'm going to pull a U-turn just so those fuckers have to do some actual work. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 11:18:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Last checkpoint I went through, I came to a complete stop. Rolled down my window, and of course the cop said, "License, registration, and insurance."
I unbuckled my belt so I could reach over to the glove compartment to get the registration and insurance card, and get my wallet out of my pocket. The smart ass, I mean, officer who went home safely that night said, "Now I can write you for no seatbelt." "Give it your best shot. My lawyer is (a bulldog who recently successfully sued the state and won a gazillion dollars for his clients), and he'd be happy for that to go to court." "Get out of here."
Next time I won't budge, tell them, "Sorry, Officer, you'll have to go around to the other side and get it yourself. I can't reach it from here with the seatbelt on. If I unbuckle it, then you'll to write me for unbuckled seatbelt. I'm not falling for that trick."
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Posted: 9/3/2010 11:20:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Or better yet,
"No habla Ingles." And start whistling La Cucuracha. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 12:02:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I think I would be a bit more OK with checkpoints if they operated like a border checkpoint. "Have you been drinking today?" "No." <quick glance to see if anything stands out indicating drinking> "Have a nice day." <gone within 1 minute of stopping> Instead of them nailing anyone with expired insurance/DL/tags, seatbelt violations, and anything else they feel like popping people for. If the stated goal is to nail drunks, do just that and not an ounce more. If LE wants to nail people for other things, then try to get a court ruling stating you can setup checkpoints for those things, and see how it goes. ETA: Then there are these places where they run checkpoints on roads with a good bunch of traffic and you end up sitting there forever since they are digging into every person trying to bust them for anything, wasting everyone's time. Actually, that's another can of worms and they have a way around that. If, in the course of their duties (mobile patrol, foot patrol, fixed post, etc), they see a felony, misdemeanor, or infraction - then they can stop you. Around here they set up a bunch of cops on an entrance ramp, exit ramp, or at an intersection where you are force to drive by slowly. They don't require you to show a license or roll down your window - but they observe your registration sticker, inspection sticker, seat belt, broken windshield, etc - if they see any violations they wave you over to the side of the road & write you your tickets. (As they are writing the ticket they run your license just like any other traffic stop - if you have a warrant or a suspended license they lock you up.) There's also an intersection in Flushing, Queens (Roosevelt Ave & Main St) where you are not allowed to turn (left or right) - they set up a bunch of new recruits or rookies around the corner on Main St & it's like shooting fish in a barrel because everyone ignores the dozen signs & makes a right turn to avoid going around the block. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 12:37:03 AM EDT
[#44]
i'm not a fan of checkpoints. i think increasing patrols would be better and (ignoring constitutional issues) i don't see how having the majority of officers in one spot makes any sense. spread them out over their coverage area and give the drunks less of a chance to avoid the police. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 12:43:42 AM EDT
[#45]
Thankfully DUI checkpoints/ JBT fishing expeditions were ruled unconstitutional in Oregon.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:24:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
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I'm glad to see this pisses others off as much as me. Heres a crazy idea instead of allowing the police to stop everyone with no reasonable suspicion, lets let them stake out bar parking lots and stop check everyone leaving. It's a truely fucked up line of logic that allows everyone to be stopped because of the danger of DUIs, but dosen't allow everyone leaving a place that sells liquor to be stopped. If it's all about safety why don;t we just put a cop with a breathalizer in every bar parking lot and require everyone leaving to blow? Caue thats a hell of a lot less of an intrusion on the rights of the majority us that don't drink and drive. Actually, having a breathalyzer at a bar would be kind of useful. Cars have speedometers so you know if you are speeding. If you have a few beers, over a couple of hours with some food, it is hard to say how much alcohol is in your system. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how high and other how low they are. I think that would open a big legal can 'o worms if bars allowed operating breathalyzers on their premises... You are almost certainly correct but it would be good to know if you were actually over the limit. I think a lot of people think they are OK, but if they knew better, they would not drive. There is also the issue of microbrews where you don't know what the alcohol content is. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:44:49 AM EDT
[#47]
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Did the SC also uphold that making a u-turn to avoid a checkpoint gives the police probable cause to stop you? Because that's what normally happens. If it's an illegal u-turn it's a righteous stop. Brian It's only illegal if the DOT has a posted no u-turn sign (or if you do it in a reckless/dangerous manner). Wouldn't depend the particular state traffic code? U-turns are illegal in a business district in CA. Brian |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:47:57 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Honestly - BFD. If the minor delay from a properly run/staffed checkpoint cop randomly running your legally carried firearm causes you that much grief you're wound way too tight IMO.
What does the particular state law say about notifying LE your are carrying? Can't say as I've ever encountered a CCW at a checkpoint - I'm sure you can guess why. Brian |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:49:19 AM EDT
[#49]
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Honestly - BFD. If the minor delay from a properly run/staffed checkpoint causes you that much grief you're wound way too tight IMO. Does LA impound cars being driven by unlicensed drivers? Brian My displeasure is the a result of the trampling of the constitution than any time spent. Even if its done in an efficient manner with a smile on their face, its still an infringement. What is the exact definition of "unreasonable" per the Constitution? Brian |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:52:02 AM EDT
[#50]
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Did the SC also uphold that making a u-turn to avoid a checkpoint gives the police probable cause to stop you? Because that's what normally happens. If it's an illegal u-turn it's a righteous stop. Brian I've worked a few of these using our light tower on our command truck for the PD and most u-turns I've seen were over the median
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