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Posted: 9/2/2010 3:35:22 PM EDT


Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:01:05 PM EDT
I managed to get through my undergrad years without taking student loans. I am now applying to professional school and student debt is my number one concern. However, I am left with few options. Who can afford 100K+ in tuition without turning to loans?
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:07:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gators-n-Guns:
I managed to get through my undergrad years without taking student loans. I am now applying to professional school and student debt is my number one concern. However, I am left with few options. Who can afford 100K+ in tuition without turning to loans?

what are you studying?
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:11:38 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:14:15 PM EDT
That's pretty damn scary. That type of shit is what's FUCKING this country.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:22:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 4:25:17 PM EDT by Gators-n-Guns]
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Gators-n-Guns:
I managed to get through my undergrad years without taking student loans. I am now applying to professional school and student debt is my number one concern. However, I am left with few options. Who can afford 100K+ in tuition without turning to loans?

what are you studying?


I am applying to medical school- both D.O. and M.D.
Edit: About half of the schools I applied to are private, about 35-40K per year.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:26:11 PM EDT
I don't know if it is still the case, but when i was in highschool every effort was made by my school , From the principal to the football coach, spent alot of time and effort promoting student loans. regular assemblies and seminars that were loaded with deceptive figures and arguments that told the story that "student loans aren't like any other kind of loan because students are protected by the government" and "student loans are a great deal because the government wants to help everyone get an education" and more ridiculous claims. It is hard to expect a 17 year old kid to make a wise decision regarding student loans when every adult authority figure is telling them half-truths.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:27:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
That's pretty damn scary. That type of shit is what's FUCKING this country.

As wiser men than me have said; "follow the money" and in this case it makes the whole fucked up system crystal clear as to why it exists.

I told both my kids to not even think about going the typical college route. Get the basic stuff done at the local CC, take some time to decide what direction you want to go and strongly consider a hands-on type of trade. You know, something that can't be easily outsourced or become obsolete overnight when the "next new thing" comes along.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:34:42 PM EDT
I'd care, but I don't. Too many people who have absolutely no business being in college are going.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:35:09 PM EDT
I understand that its a big, self-perpetuating scam. One problem I have with the above is that they seem to indicate that the biggest problem with student loans is that they are not bankruptable. All debts should be this way. If you borrow money, you will pay it back. Student loans are the reason for the inflation of tuition over the years. It is getting harder and harder to pay your way through, and going into massive debt to do it gets easier and easier.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:35:55 PM EDT
Misspelled LEARN as LEAN on second to last sticky note.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:44:26 PM EDT
cool graphic. College just may not be a priority anymore in 19 yrs when my kids start.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:45:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Misspelled LEARN as LEAN on second to last sticky note.


That wasn't the only one. Read it again.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:46:12 PM EDT
Tagged to send to my Daughter.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:46:33 PM EDT
If student loans (especially those which are government backed) were paid directly to the school for tuition and books people wouldn't be partying their way through four years of liberal arts and graduating with 100K in debt. Human beings are stupid, lazy, and greedy. People are just being themselves, after all who wants to work their way through college?
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:47:12 PM EDT
I'm glad I paid cash for my bachelors.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:50:10 PM EDT
US Army paid for my BS degree. But I earned it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:52:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 4:56:35 PM EDT by Walkure]
Sorry, they always lose me when they get to the "you aren't making payments..." part.



No fucking shit that things will get fucked up if you can't pay back what you agreed to. Good. Serves you fucking right. It's people that think they can blow off things like this that are fucking up society at large.



Same goes with the way that most of the "problems" that are claimed about credit card companies relate to things like late fees and interest rates. There is one and only one person to blame for that kind of debt accumulation - you.

See, the real problem - all too common these days - is a lack of personal responsibility. People aren't willing to accept what they've already bought into, and they sure as hell aren't ready to do what it takes to fix their financial situation. (You know, like cutting out all non-essential items and being willing to work any job that will help pay the bills.)



ETA - I think we all know what they did back in the day when you couldn't pay back a debt that you willingly took on...

Nobody is forcing you to take any loans. If you feel that it will be difficult to pay back, fucking think about it first.

It's a very simple concept - if you borrow money with the agreement to pay it back under a certain schedule, and then you don't meet that schedule - which you agreed to - then you absolutely deserve to be fucked over royally.

The problem is not debt. The problem is debt that people take on without thinking about the fact that they have to pay it back. It's not free fucking money.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:55:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 5:05:08 PM EDT by EndgameSTG]
I think college is destroying a generation. If our economy was healthy we wouldn't need this much education to get a job. Not only are the majority of things you can go there to study worthless, but most people simply don't have what it takes to get a degree anyway. I saw a thousand dreams die in college. It was like rats on a sinking ship, the desperation of the people around me during senior year, and I knew I'd need to be damn close to the top to have a chance in hell of breaking even. Scholarships paid for most of it, so I didn't get burned too bad, but I can't say the same for the 99% at my university that didn't have those scholarships. You've got a bunch of people with a mortgage and no house, and if they're slightly less unlucky, a piece of paper which is probably not worth much. Nearly everyone I graduated with either works a menial job or simply doesn't have one. I see colleges building even more lavish buildings and dorms that no one can afford, administrators bragging at my graduation ceremony about the Obama money they got. It's going to be the last bubble to burst. The whole thing is fucked.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:57:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 5:23:28 PM EDT by a555]
.....
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:04:47 PM EDT
"...consumer spending addition?"

Come on, spelling error in the second sentence?

Someone needs to proof read this stuff.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:05:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EndgameSTG:
I think college is destroying a generation. If our economy was healthy we wouldn't need this much education to get a job. Not only are the majority of things you can go there to study worthless, but most people simply don't have what it takes to get a degree anyway. I saw a thousand dreams die in college. So you've got a bunch of people with a mortgage and no house, and if they're slightly less unlucky, a piece of paper which is probably not worth much. Nearly everyone I graduated with either works a menial job or simply doesn't have one. I see colleges building even more lavish buildings and dorms that no one can afford, administrators bragging at my graduation ceremony about the Obama money they got. It's going to be the last bubble to burst. The whole thing is fucked.


Maybe that's the intention? It certainly seems that it's by design.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:07:55 PM EDT
I went to a cheap public university, worked co-op every other semester, and got academic scholarships. Got two engineering degrees.

Student loan debt: $0

I work the same job as a recent grad from a fancy school. Her loan debt: $200K

Think about that when choosing that fancy school, boys and girls.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:08:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EndgameSTG:
I think college is destroying a generation. If our economy was healthy we wouldn't need this much education to get a job. Not only are the majority of things you can go there to study worthless, but most people simply don't have what it takes to get a degree anyway. I saw a thousand dreams die in college. It was like rats on a sinking ship, the desperation of the people around me during senior year, and I knew I'd need to be damn close to the top to have a chance in hell of breaking even. Scholarships paid for most of it, so I didn't get burned too bad, but I can't say the same for the 99% at my university that didn't have those scholarships. You've got a bunch of people with a mortgage and no house, and if they're slightly less unlucky, a piece of paper which is probably not worth much. Nearly everyone I graduated with either works a menial job or simply doesn't have one. I see colleges building even more lavish buildings and dorms that no one can afford, administrators bragging at my graduation ceremony about the Obama money they got. It's going to be the last bubble to burst. The whole thing is fucked.

So instead we should be a nation of ignoramuses, making our living at manual labor?

Sorry, but no-fucking-way...
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:11:32 PM EDT
I'm paying a student loan on a design degree and working as mechanic
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:19:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 5:32:30 PM EDT by EndgameSTG]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By EndgameSTG:
I think college is destroying a generation. If our economy was healthy we wouldn't need this much education to get a job. Not only are the majority of things you can go there to study worthless, but most people simply don't have what it takes to get a degree anyway. I saw a thousand dreams die in college. It was like rats on a sinking ship, the desperation of the people around me during senior year, and I knew I'd need to be damn close to the top to have a chance in hell of breaking even. Scholarships paid for most of it, so I didn't get burned too bad, but I can't say the same for the 99% at my university that didn't have those scholarships. You've got a bunch of people with a mortgage and no house, and if they're slightly less unlucky, a piece of paper which is probably not worth much. Nearly everyone I graduated with either works a menial job or simply doesn't have one. I see colleges building even more lavish buildings and dorms that no one can afford, administrators bragging at my graduation ceremony about the Obama money they got. It's going to be the last bubble to burst. The whole thing is fucked.

So instead we should be a nation of ignoramuses, making our living at manual labor?

Sorry, but no-fucking-way...


Most college grads aren't actually trained to do anything useful, even if they see through the bullshit marketing they're bombarded with as teenagers about college being a 4-year vacation and actually study enough to graduate with decent grades.

There are only so many engineers, lawyers and MBA's the world can hire, let alone women's studies majors. It's simply impossible to have a workforce that consists 100% of educated professionals.

What do you have against blue collar jobs? You seem to think they shouldn't exist.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:22:26 PM EDT
I think I wi ll be in 60k in at the finish of my education. I remember sitting in a booth at the local fish house when I heard 4 old teachers talking about their student loans and how they will make their last payment in 7 years making them 60 years old and felt they had accomplished the impossible by doing so.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:24:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By EndgameSTG:
I think college is destroying a generation. If our economy was healthy we wouldn't need this much education to get a job. Not only are the majority of things you can go there to study worthless, but most people simply don't have what it takes to get a degree anyway. I saw a thousand dreams die in college. It was like rats on a sinking ship, the desperation of the people around me during senior year, and I knew I'd need to be damn close to the top to have a chance in hell of breaking even. Scholarships paid for most of it, so I didn't get burned too bad, but I can't say the same for the 99% at my university that didn't have those scholarships. You've got a bunch of people with a mortgage and no house, and if they're slightly less unlucky, a piece of paper which is probably not worth much. Nearly everyone I graduated with either works a menial job or simply doesn't have one. I see colleges building even more lavish buildings and dorms that no one can afford, administrators bragging at my graduation ceremony about the Obama money they got. It's going to be the last bubble to burst. The whole thing is fucked.

So instead we should be a nation of ignoramuses, making our living at manual labor?

Sorry, but no-fucking-way...


College isn't some gateway to intelligence and a degree does not increase your brain cell count. It's less then worthless depending on what you take because at least worthless doesn't cost $50,000+ that you need to pay back at interest.

Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:30:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 5:35:37 PM EDT by Mclovin5-0]
I just started my final semester for my MBA. For the first time EVER, I applied for student loans because I'm only taking a living wage from my business in order to keep it healthy. Up until now I've paid for every semester in cash. I decided I'd take about 3000 to cover half of tuition and pay the other 3 in cash. When I got approved, they informed me that, due to my good credit rating, I was "entitled" to 22 thousand, just for one semester. That's absolutley ridiculous.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 5:52:28 PM EDT
The biggest crime with the student loan scam is how it has allowed universities to drive up costs because the loans allow people to "afford" it. My first year of school tuition was $12/hr. By graduation it was $36/hr and they tacked on $70 fees to all engineering courses and labs. Now, only 15 years later, its $140/hr and they have a fee for the fee's plus some extra fee's for every damn thing. Still, I worked my way through, had scholarships, and the little loans I did take I paid off within 6 months of graduation. I looked at college as a pure investment and NOT four years of parties and social entertainment.

No one makes people take a loan and I have little sympathy for people who cannot do a simple calculation on affordability and net present value when considering one. Taking out $100k to get a degree in philosophy or to get a degree from an Ivy League school is stupid and reckless. That being said, Sallie Mae has turned the loan program into a racket and the wonderful public schools make damn sure to never teach kids simple economics.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:06:04 PM EDT
I worked 30+ hours per week at $6 an hour all the way through college. On Christmas and summer break I worked 40 or more when available. That still wasn't enough to pay for all my tuition, books, a long list of stupid fees, parking passes, etc, etc. I had to get student loans to pick up the slack unless I wanted to drag a 4 year degree into 8 years. Plain and simple. Mommy and Daddy, I love 'em to death, but they didn't pay my way through school, and they shouldn't have had to. Loans were the only sensable way to get it done.

Thank God that I have exactly $3,000 left to pay back and I am DONE!

I kid you not though, a buddy of mine transfered schools half way through, a lot of the credits didn't transfer, so we was in school about 6 years. He didn't work while in school, he went to class then went hunting or fishing or partying, etc. He came out of school with over 70,000 dollars in debt. He married a girl who did about the same thing and total they had over $150,000 in student loan debt.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:15:42 PM EDT
Between my wife and myself, we have $90k in loans. I'm a chemical engineer. I make high $70ks. She's now a stay at home mom, but does design work on the side. Brings in about $12k

It's like buying a house. One you can never sell.

But, we chose to be in this situation, and in 30 short years we'll be out.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:19:00 PM EDT
Shit, I need to invest in Sallie May.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:24:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 6:36:38 PM EDT by omega62]
I graduated from college only owing $2,000 in loans, which I paid off within a year.

I knew some guys who graduated owing astronomical amounts of money on student loans.

For some of them, I wondered if the degrees they got were even worth being in that much debt for.

From a cost/benefit standpoint, they probably could have done better going to trade school.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:24:34 PM EDT
There used to be an adage which went something like "If you don't want to pay it back, don't borrow the frigging money."
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:27:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By EndgameSTG:
I think college is destroying a generation. If our economy was healthy we wouldn't need this much education to get a job. Not only are the majority of things you can go there to study worthless, but most people simply don't have what it takes to get a degree anyway. I saw a thousand dreams die in college. It was like rats on a sinking ship, the desperation of the people around me during senior year, and I knew I'd need to be damn close to the top to have a chance in hell of breaking even. Scholarships paid for most of it, so I didn't get burned too bad, but I can't say the same for the 99% at my university that didn't have those scholarships. You've got a bunch of people with a mortgage and no house, and if they're slightly less unlucky, a piece of paper which is probably not worth much. Nearly everyone I graduated with either works a menial job or simply doesn't have one. I see colleges building even more lavish buildings and dorms that no one can afford, administrators bragging at my graduation ceremony about the Obama money they got. It's going to be the last bubble to burst. The whole thing is fucked.

So instead we should be a nation of ignoramuses, making our living at manual labor?

Sorry, but no-fucking-way...


College isn't some gateway to intelligence and a degree does not increase your brain cell count. It's less then worthless depending on what you take because at least worthless doesn't cost $50,000+ that you need to pay back at interest.



If you pick the right major, you'll make that back, and much more over your life.

But you have a point, in that many people go because they feel it's just what a person is supposed to do. These are the ones that have barely-applicable degrees, or simply drop out unfinished.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:27:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 6:31:42 PM EDT by NathanL]
I took out a small loan at the end of my college career. About 6 months after I got out of school I sent them a check for about 1/3 of the loan while at the same time my parents sent in a chunk as well now that I was finished with school. In the meantime my original lender had sold my loan. My check was cashed and never credited to my account.

Try to find anyone in the US including your rep and senator that can find out anything when you get screwed on a student loan. You can't. At first I simply asked for a statement where it listed my payments and never could get one and went downhill from there.

Eventually I got tired of dealing with people who just said "Pay it or else" I quit paying.

Fuck it I don't care. It's been 15 years now and they send me a letter about once every 3 months with what I owe with penalties. It's the only loan I have ever taken out. I'm not going to keep sending in money if there's no guarantee it can be accounted for.

Other than that they can't do shit to me. I always owe taxes and pay them all at once so they can't keep my tax refund. I'm self employed so they can't garnish my wages.

Like all government and quasi government deals no one is really in charge and no one is responsible. Even if you talk to the state for money that just apparently disappeared you get a lot of "Nothing we can do". Also once they sell the original loan everyone else is basically a debt collector and doesn't care it's just a piece of paper at that point.

I could have paid off the whole damn thing in about 2 weeks of earnings nowdays but they'll never see a penny of it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:29:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tamu94:
The biggest crime with the student loan scam is how it has allowed universities to drive up costs because the loans allow people to "afford" it.


Same thing is going to happen with healthcare. It happened with education and a flood of money into the market, it happened with housing with a flood of money into the market etc...
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:31:40 PM EDT
Seems pretty much accurate.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:36:50 PM EDT
The fact that the money is there for the asking is one of the big reasons tuition is going sky-high. Colleges can charge whatever they want - so they do. AND they get 5% or something off the top as a fee for processing the student loan. This is a BIG example of how HELP from the government has made things a lot worse.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:40:06 PM EDT
6%-8% interest, $200-$300 a month, that's less than most car loans.

If you can't make that payment, or even double that payment, you should have never accepted the loan in the first place.


Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:44:10 PM EDT
Eh, Obama should wipe student loan debt clean right before the election. After the jillions in bailouts and stimulus that nobody knows what happened to it's chump change.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:54:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 6:55:40 PM EDT by SparticleBrane]
Between the two of us, my wife and I have just over $100k in student loans.

My undergrad, her undergrad, and now her law school. She's entering her last year now, and at an in-state public university they are charging just over $20k per year for tuition. Her parking pass was $315 for the year. Note that was not included in the $20k figure, nor were her books, and her bar exam and prep course for that isn't included either.

The plan is to squeak by on my meager income after she graduates, and use basically all of her take-home pay (assuming she gets a job!) to pay down our student loans ASAP. Thankfully she's at a good school, she's doing very well and is getting some great experience at her current job even if it doesn't pay very well at all.


I know many of you are asking how you can have over $100k in student loans –– it is easy when you are stupid in college (like me) and don't try to get a job or pay it down and you just let your parents handle it. That plus (3) years of law school at $20k/year for the wife.

Had I been on arfcom at the time I probably would have been much better about it, seeing as how most people here are anti-debt and I probably would have picked up on that. Admittedly I was quite short-sighted at the time. No one's fault but my own.


As it is right now we are paying mine off (all we can currently afford) since my wife's loans are currently deferred until she graduates. We absolutely will pay back all our loans –– we signed our names to it, and that is a promise. Preferably we'll pay them back very fast; this will hurt while it happens but will be much cheaper in the long run.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Don't do what I did –– work your way through college, and pay as you go if at all possible.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:22:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Walkure:
Sorry, they always lose me when they get to the "you aren't making payments..." part.



No fucking shit that things will get fucked up if you can't pay back what you agreed to. Good. Serves you fucking right. It's people that think they can blow off things like this that are fucking up society at large.



Same goes with the way that most of the "problems" that are claimed about credit card companies relate to things like late fees and interest rates. There is one and only one person to blame for that kind of debt accumulation - you.

See, the real problem - all too common these days - is a lack of personal responsibility. People aren't willing to accept what they've already bought into, and they sure as hell aren't ready to do what it takes to fix their financial situation. (You know, like cutting out all non-essential items and being willing to work any job that will help pay the bills.)



ETA - I think we all know what they did back in the day when you couldn't pay back a debt that you willingly took on...

Nobody is forcing you to take any loans. If you feel that it will be difficult to pay back, fucking think about it first.

It's a very simple concept - if you borrow money with the agreement to pay it back under a certain schedule, and then you don't meet that schedule - which you agreed to - then you absolutely deserve to be fucked over royally.

The problem is not debt. The problem is debt that people take on without thinking about the fact that they have to pay it back. It's not free fucking money.


A FREAK'IN MEN!!!

I don't see the problem or the point of the OP........... imagine, you are EXPECTED to pay back what you borrow...... what the hell is this world coming to??



Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:26:34 PM EDT
I haven't had a problem with mine. I paid cash for the first few years, but I did rack up nearly 28K in loans. I'm now repaying them with a fixed interest rate which is less than that of inflation. I don't see the problem.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:27:22 PM EDT
I had about 30k in students loans when I graduated. Thankfully I had work study to pay part of my way through school. I paid off that debt the first year out of school thanks to Everquest.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:37:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dipper:
A FREAK'IN MEN!!!

I don't see the problem or the point of the OP........... imagine, you are EXPECTED to pay back what you borrow...... what the hell is this world coming to??


The problem is that they're playing the game of "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Basically:
Persons A & B borrow equally large sums of money. A's is in the form of a student loan, B is......basically anything else. B declares bankruptcy and gets their debt wiped off the table. A declares bankruptcy and his debt isn't wiped clean. A is hounded for years to pay back the loans even though they declared bankruptcy, but B isn't, even though they both borrowed the same amount of money. The only difference was the type of loan.

I am not advocating for those who purposefully don't repay their loans. BUT, if we are going to live in a system where everyone is supposedly equal, the laws need to apply to everyone equally...even the bankruptcy laws.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:41:22 PM EDT
I've realized something with every purchase that can be made. Whether it be a car, Education, Or a want item, If you don't have the cash, You can't afford it.

The only thing that should be financed, Is a Mortgage.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:43:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JimsZR2:
I've realized something with every purchase that can be made. Whether it be a car, Education, Or a want item, If you don't have the cash, You can't afford it.

The only thing that should be financed, Is a Mortgage.


Why? An education is a much better investment than a home.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:49:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tamu94:
The biggest crime with the student loan scam is how it has allowed universities to drive up costs because the loans allow people to "afford" it.


Exactly. That chart gives me no sympathy for the default "victims," but it does make me lament the diminishing return on investment that a degree has become due to the unrealistic prices required. We're on this bubble now and I just can't see the system being the same when it's time for my kids to go.

Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:51:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR45fan:
Originally Posted By JimsZR2:
I've realized something with every purchase that can be made. Whether it be a car, Education, Or a want item, If you don't have the cash, You can't afford it.

The only thing that should be financed, Is a Mortgage.


Why? An education is a much better investment than a home.


What do I know? I'm just a 29 year old, High School Graduate. I lean more technical on my interests. I don't have any decent money for edumacationz.
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