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Posted: 4/12/2002 8:37:05 AM EDT
I was watching the Fox News station concerning the most recent 'suicide bombing' in Jerusalem which occurred this evening. Six were killed, including the [b]female[/b] bomber. The point is that Fox News is referring to the bombers now, as 'homicide bombers' and not as 'suicide bombers'! Why the change? And is it significant? Eric The(Challenged)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:44:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2002 8:44:39 AM EDT by toaster]
Attacking civilians is tantamount to [b]murder[/b]. There is no other way to read it, IMO. -T.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:46:34 AM EDT
I noticed that this morning, also. I don't remember what reporter said it, but it stood out like she had yelled. Don't know what, if anything, it means either, but it is interesting.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:48:41 AM EDT
After thinking about it - kind of. I mean while "suicide bomber" conjured up images of a crazed, yet purposeful killer - "homicide bomber" just seems to just denote a murderer w/ no cause. Bombly simply to murder, v. bombing to make a statement or further a cause by also killing oneself. The only reason I can see for the term change is that Ruper Murdoch or some powerful news editor at Fox must have decided that this was murder w/out any other "political attachments" & called for the change. Let's be frank here. It is murder. But whether you attribute political motives to the murder - that's up to you to decide. Not Fox News. Not the media. CNN does this all the time too. CNN is skewed to the left. Fox News is skewed to the right. The problem is that the media shouldn't be skewed to anything - it should just be the f*cking media. In the real world this doesn't happen though - witness the way the media reports on firearms & their owners. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent. ETH, I guess that gives you my opinion of the change. The only significance I give to it is it is another glaring example of the media taking sides when it should just be reporting. Fair & Balanced, my ass!
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:52:08 AM EDT
Just saw Ari Fleischer on tv and he said the President is calling it a Homicide Bombing because that is what it is. (yeah right) He said it's not a suicide because the objective is to take out other people with him/her and not just themself. Is it significant? I think it is. No suicide bombings or terrorist bombings then there is no war on terrorist. If you get the public and the news media to keep saying it then the public will eventually think it's just another HOMICIDE. I'll never buy it. It's still a terrorist attack, or suicide bombing. I thing the Prez needs to back off on Israel.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:53:06 AM EDT
Toaster, again, it IS murder, but if you're gonna label it, why not just say "bomber" then? Why "Murder Bomber?" What bomber do you know that blows things up w/out wanting to kill humans? The guy in Fight Club? C'mon. Why the sudden label change? Murder it is - but the media shouldn't start deciding how to label things when they want to send a message. THEY ARE THERE TO DELIVER THE MESSAGE, NOT TO CREATE IT. Again, this is why firearms owners always get raped by the media. They have an agenda. They create the message as they see fit, not as it is.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:56:47 AM EDT
Has there been more women doing these suicide bombings lately? So what do they get? Seventy virgin men? It seems Israel is doing something right to where ole yasser is having to use women.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 8:59:42 AM EDT
Yeah, I just saw Ari Fleisher call it 'homicide bombing' as well. I guess it must be to differentiate these acts from true acts of suicide in protest of some particular cause. Remeber the Buddhist monks who were setting themselves on fire to protest the South Vietnamese government's treatment of Buddhists? It wasn't like they were pouring gasoline on themselves and other civilians in the vicinity and then lighting a match. They pretty much restricted the fire to their own bodies. And appalled folks all over the world. Eric The(hmmmm)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:02:37 AM EDT
RTA, I think you might be wrong. Again, "Suicide" along w/ bomber has always meant that there was a political motive to the bombing. Like a Kamikaze. Sort of a justification for why someone would do this. Taking that label away then just leaves the murder w/ no political motive. You have someone bombing for glee or from insanity - not for any real reason, not from the "heat of passion." Also, it make it easier for the uneducated masses to lap up. "OH MY GOD! THESE ARE MURDER BOMBERS!" As if before, when they were just "suicide bombers," they were out to pick flowers. If anything, this makes it easier to expand the was on them. They'll say: "These MURDER BOMBERS must be stopped. They have no political motive. We must expand our war to stop MURDER BOMBERS worldwide."
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:03:37 AM EDT
I am no Pali lover, but one way to end these "suicide/homicide bombings" is to give the Palis cruise missles, tanks, jet fighter etc etc.... "Terror" is an effective tactic IMO wether it comes from a human bomb or a cruise missle. The Izzys are tough bastids IMO, if we had this happening here at our malls and street intersections we would not even leave our homes. NOR do I feel we would be as reserved in our response. Just my unpopular .02 Biggame223 Out
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:04:39 AM EDT
Maybe FOX has decided to change because of the intent to kill the victims. Suicide Bomber - by definition could blow themselves up with no intent to kill anyone else. Relatively benign. Homicide Bomber - by definition is intending to kill others by the action. Relatively malignant. I personally think we should come up with a new name to describe these idiots. A name that would convey all facets of these dispicable acts. 1. Get-the-check-from-Saddam-before-you-push-the-button Bomber 2. No-really-I'm-hoping-to-change-the-world-by-killing-myself Bomber 3. 72-virgins-here-I-come....wait-this-is-HELL!!-somebody-lied-to-me Bomber 4. Why-did-my-'Arafat-vest'-detonate-early? I-was-still-in-my-Mom's-house Bomber 5. Maybe-I-should-quit-smoking.... nah Bomber These idiots really piss me off. I think that, if this was happening in the USA, we would have the problem solved in about 30 minutes. If you look suspicious, or are over dressed in the hot weather, or were aimlessly wandering around a populous area, some CCW holder would ventilate you, case closed. The ACLU would start cranking out the lawsuits but the problem would be solved. Maybe this would only work in the Western US (except California). We are a friendly bunchout here but we don't waste much time figuring out whats right and wrong and what needs to be done to 'correct' the wrongs...permenantly.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:15:06 AM EDT
Wiggy, I see your point, but when was the last time someone wanting to commit suicide use a ton of dynamite on themselves? It is clearly murder, but it is murder w/ a political & a military motive. This isn't someone killing someone else for 5 bucks outside of a convenience store. You have to separate the FACT that is "wrong" from the FACT that it IS politically/militarily motivated. AND IT IS NOT UP TO THE MEDIA TO DECIDE THIS & FEED IT TO THE MASSES!!!
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:55:17 AM EDT
This whole thing (Israel,US,Middle East) seems to be going through a state change. There were protests in Dallas, there is a silent protest scheduled for OKC by Muslims this weekend. This is worrying. I hate to say this, but I think when the shit hits the fan there in Israel after a short time it is going to hit the fan here. I hope that I am wrong. But I don't know that I am. I don't know what to think about it. Sure the name change on caption. I just got this feeling that it seems to fit a timeline, yeah its not unexpected, maybe its just me but I have been following the "STATE" of this since the beginning, I just get the feeling people are tiring of this endless string of BullShit. I get the feeling people are tiring of this SOFT SHOE DANCE. What the hell do I know?? Ben
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 9:56:31 AM EDT
When someone does this with a gun in the US, the media calls it a murder/suicide. What deep, sinister meaning to you guys take from this? Personally, I just think they have the order backwards.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 10:02:21 AM EDT
Norm, I don't see anyone murdering civilians here to fight what they see as an occupying army. Completely different & incomparable situation. Anyway, I don't see this causing SHTF here. You might see little hate crimes here - same crap that happened during the Gulf War - but the difference is we're Americans, we protest, we go home, we vote (or not as is the case lately). That's what makes us, us, & makes them over there, well, them.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 10:47:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jobux: Wiggy, I see your point, but when was the last time someone wanting to commit suicide use a ton of dynamite on themselves? It is clearly murder, but it is murder w/ a political & a military motive. This isn't someone killing someone else for 5 bucks outside of a convenience store. You have to separate the FACT that is "wrong" from the FACT that it IS politically/militarily motivated. AND IT IS NOT UP TO THE MEDIA TO DECIDE THIS & FEED IT TO THE MASSES!!!
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My overall point is that the change in terms actually removes the martyrdom and mystique associated with killing yourself in support of political ideals. We in the US (at least most of us) are against killing yourself for any reason much less political. There are many reasons for this, religion, sanctity of life, a process to air greivances and inalienable rights guaranteed us by the Constitution. This abhorrent feeling towards political suicide is the primary reason why these idiot Palestinians are killing themselves. To believe that Arafat, Saddam Hussein, or the Saudi royal family are really interested in seeing a Palestinian homeland is quite a stretch. The aim of these assholes behind the bombers is, IMHO, to discredit the US and force us as a country to quit our support of Israel. Showing massive death and destruction on the US media has historically allowed the liberals in our country to begin their "peace at any cost" bullshit and eventually erode the US's will to fight or support a fight in this area. This will allow the Arabs in the area to finally have an untroubled time attacking and possibly overthrowing Israel once and for all. I am proud of who ever is responsible for finally calling like it is, pure and simple murder. Do not dress this up as anything else but. Remove the semi-noble ideals of dying for your beliefs or sacrificing yourself for the greater good and what do you have left? MURDER.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 4:23:35 PM EDT
Benjamin001, what's a silent protest? Is that where the women won't be yelling lalalalalalala....etc.?
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 4:29:10 PM EDT
No worries fellas. I see on Fox News that the Saudis are having a money raising telethon for the , er, bombers. Howdayalike that? Course you're not gonna see any soft assed Saudis join in the fighting, just sending in money.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 4:36:29 PM EDT
I think these people are most aptly named "Terrorist Suicide Bombers". If you are going to call them "Terrorist Murder Bombers", you make no distinction between them and Timothy McVeigh, or the Unibomber for that matter – and I believe there is a big difference in their actions. Personally, I believe that the new phraseology is merely a product of political spin and hype.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 6:12:11 PM EDT
"Homicide bomber" came out of the White House. Fox News must have liked the sound of it and ran with it.
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 6:21:45 PM EDT
"Axis of Evil" also came out of the White House, & it may be the single stupidest phrase uttered in the history of foreign relations. Wiggy, agreed but as someone else said, I don't think Fox should have "run w/ it." They're not here to rebrand things according to what Ari Fleischer likes... Also, you won't see our government blast the Saudis for doing exactly the same things the Iraqis are getting raked over the coals for. In fact, as I posted in another thread, the Bush admin. is turning a deaf ear on it. This is a SELECTIVE war on terrorism gentlemen. Bush can talk about "w/ us or against us" all he wants, but he's really talking out of his ass. If it was really like that, we'd br talking about deposing Musharaff, Abdullah, Kim, & the rest, just like Saddam. Axis of Evil my ass. The Saudis & Pakis should have been included too...
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 6:32:47 PM EDT
Did u see Katie interview the gentleman from Isreal this morning?She asked him about the evidence Isreal had about Arafat sponcering terror.Then told us it may be fake and he might be lieing.She even said,i just had to throw that in
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 7:00:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: I hate to say this, but I think when the shit hits the fan there in Israel after a short time it is going to hit the fan here. I hope that I am wrong. But I don't know that I am. I don't know what to think about it.
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I think you are wrong. I hope you are wrong. We'll see I guess... [:|]
Link Posted: 4/12/2002 10:55:42 PM EDT
Pecos, it really might be fake & he really might be lying. Did that ever occur to you? WTF would you trust an Israeli offical more than, let's say an American gov't official, who BTW get castigated and "not believed" on this site 24-7? Why trust any of them? They all have their own agenda. I'm just shocked Couric even asked a freaking intelligent question...
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