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Posted: 4/9/2002 6:32:54 AM EDT
Ok last month I was accused of going 79 in a 55mph zone. The only problem is that I was only going 60mph as witnessed by my girlfriend and myself. When I was pulled over I asked to see the radar and it did say 79. I know I was not going this fast but it is going to be the officers word against mine. I am pretty sure the officer clocked the person in front of me and took me by mistake or just grabbed the first person that pulled aside. I am going to court next week but the only solid proof I have is my witness and a statement from the dealer that my speedometer is correct. The county I was pulled over in is known for corruption in their police department. So I don’t know where to stand on this any suggestions? I can’t really afford a lawyer.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 6:41:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 6:56:22 AM EDT
I think Beer_Slayer pretty much says it all, especially if you can't afford a lawyer. You might get this little book and read it for future confrontations with the "Highway Revenue Service": [url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1888766018/qid=1018363872/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/104-2464760-9776743[/url]
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 6:57:02 AM EDT
Exactly. Speeding tickets are a tax on going fast. Without a lawyer you can. 1. Pay the ticket and go on. 2. Pray that the cop doesn't show and plead not guilty. 3. Plead "Nolo Contendere" and ask for defensive driving to keep it off your record. 4. Just forget about it and obey the traffic laws from now until you die.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:01:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:06:16 AM EDT
I don't know if it works the same where you're at, but in the larger cities here in Texas, there are attorneys that will take your case for what the ticket will cost or less. I've had a couple "Defended" this way. What they do is plead you "not guilty" the judge finds you guilty (you don't even have to be there), and the attorney appeals it. Six months later, the attorney walks in with a list of 300-400 of his clients he has appeals for, and tells the court coordinator he wants a jury trial for each, oh, and by the way, he wants a new jury impaneled for each case, at which point, the judge dismisses all of them. haha.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:07:57 AM EDT
Radarguns are not precise devices. Most radarguns will have a coverage angle of at least 30 degrees and some will actually pickup anything within 360 degrees. Most are calibrated to lock on the fastest signal, not the strongest and it is left up to the operator to figure out which vehicle is causing it. Also trees have been clocked at 90 miles per hour. Ask for the records of when the radargun was calibrated. Ask to see the training records of the operator. Have pictures of the seen to prove that another vehicle could have been the one causing the signal. Checkout webb sites about radarguns and print this out. Good luck.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:08:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:15:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 7:17:55 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:22:36 AM EDT
Goto court and talk to the cop before you go in front of the judge. Usually they will agree to let you plead guilty to a lower speed. Sometimes if the cop is a nice guy you can get the ticket lowered to a speed that has no points and then your insurance will not be affected at ALL. I've had this happen to me. In PA there is a ticket called "#3111 failure to obey traffic control devices". A cop can give you that ticket for anything basically and it is no points. Find out if there is anything like that in your state's vehicle code. No matter what you are paying a fine. Getting the points lowered or knocked off is your goal. Good luck!
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:32:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NORTEXED: Six months later, the attorney walks in with a list of 300-400 of his clients he has appeals for, and tells the court coordinator he wants a jury trial for each, oh, and by the way, he wants a new jury impaneled for each case, at which point, the judge dismisses all of them. haha.
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It works because it will cost them more to empanel a jury than they can make from the case. Each member of the pool is getting $6 for showing up, and the people on the actual jury get $8. And there's only the one courtroom, the judge wants to play golf, it will take a month or more to send out a bunch of notices...
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:33:58 AM EDT
The Beer Slayer wrote: "Yes i am a pessimist about this. But beleive me i have had more than my share of tickets when i was growing up. Had my dl suspended twice. I have tried everything in the book including lawyers and NON of it makes a difference. Traffic court is held normally in small courts with judges that realy don't want to be there." That actually tells a lot of the story. You've got a record of poor driving. Your word doesn't count for much against that. The judge takes one look at your driving record and figures that chances are, you were speeding and will continue to do so. Frankly, with two license suspensions against you, you ain't ever gonna get a break in traffic court. Someone with an otherwise clean record might fare quite a bit better.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:19:09 AM EDT
Lets say I show up without a lawyer and am found guilty, is it possible to appeal. My biggest concern is getting my license taken away and my insurance going up. I have had a clean record in the last three years but managed to get about three verbal warnings for speeding. Nothing written.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:29:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 8:30:17 AM EDT by Philadelphia_GunMan]
Check the laws in your state. I PA you can't get you license suspended for 79 in a 55 zone. Unless you have like 4 other recent tickets. Verbal warnings don't mean shit. If you don't have any tickets in 3 years you should be fine.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:05:44 AM EDT
One ticket in Iowa will not cost you your DL. It may not even hit your insurance. Usually insurance companies only start to get worked up on the second ticket. Just curious, what county in Iowa?
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:17:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zipster223: I have had a clean record in the last three years but managed to get about three verbal warnings for speeding. Nothing written.
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Hmmm
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:17:42 AM EDT
I heard about a thing where you pay your ticket but add about $5 to what it was then send in the check they cannot accept the extra money so they have too process the money and reimburse you before the process the ticket and it takes forever.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:22:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 9:25:04 AM EDT by LgAnimalVet]
I have more speeding tickets than I can remember. To the point that I have had to change insurance companies a couple of times. I just pay them and lick my wounds--I think it is too much trouble to try and fight them, usually ends up costing me more in the long run. Now if I could only get that DUI off my record...
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 9:36:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 10:42:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 10:46:56 AM EDT by Steel_Rat]
Without a doubt the very best book ever written on the subject is "Beat Your Ticket: Go to Court & Win!" published by the [url=http://www.nolopress.com/]Nolo Press[/url]. I have personally used this book to beat about a dozen tickets over the years, including the time I got 2 speeding tickets 10 minutes apart!! (I deserved them both. [:D]) Before I found this book I was on "Assigned Risk" insurance and paid outrageous rates. I'm now insured by 21st Century and pay low, good driver preferred rates. And I still speed just as much as I ever did. [:P] Buy this book!!
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 11:04:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 11:36:25 AM EDT
Yup, go right into court and call the officer a liar and testify that you were only going 60 in the 55 zone. Works every time...Huh. Right! Your best bet is to ask for a court trial and hope the officer doesn't show up, then try to cut a deal with the DA or court if you can. Avoid confronting the officer. Not a good idea. Also, no jury trials for infractions in California. Probably also true elsewhere. For info, I've had maybe 40 or so court trials where the violator claimed a lower, but still illegal speed than that which they were cited for. In every case the judge found them guilty on the lower speed. No big deal for me. I got $125 in overtime and travel for the appearance and the city/county/court got their cuts on the fine. My department never got a dime of the fines, though. Our money came from vehicle registration fees. Expired registration tickets were all we made a little money on and the Motor Vehicle Fund would have gotten it anyway if the violator hadn't let the registration expire.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 11:39:35 AM EDT
Move to Montana!
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 12:20:29 PM EDT
File a motion for discovery. Ask for the cops radar training certification, the radar gun calibration records and the records verifying the accuracy of the radar guns calibration device. Chances are one of the items will not be produced by the Law Enforcement Agency. Go to court. Argue with as much conviction as you can muster that you were going 55. Show the lack of any of the above documents as proof that the radar gun must somehow have been incorrect.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:41:39 PM EDT
Zipster223, in fighting a traffic tickets, it depends an how much of a fighter you are. It will definitely cost you more in time than just signing the waiver and most likely will cost more money also. They know this when they set the amount of fines. They entice you to take the road of least hassle: waive your court appearance, plead guilty, pay the fine and get on with your life. All this without regard to principles. There are law groups that can help you but they cost money and time also. Some of the down the road advantages for fighting a ticket are less increases in auto insurance rates, less likelihood of being charged with the repeat offender claim, and certainly a cleaner record for employment checks et al. So you have to decide just how much you want to pay for principles. If you decide to fight, be prepared to spend time at the law library. There may not be any silver bullets to quickly settle this case. Be prepared to do what ever it takes to suceed. And what that encompasses will be determined once you get into it. I'm not trying to discourage you, but a wise man counts the cost before going into battle, whether he has the means to fight the battle. The worst thing you can do is to make a half-hearted attempt at defending yourself and perhaps, if the case goes high enough, set a precedent for others to loose by. But if you're going to fight for principles, the cost will be well worth the price, especially in the long run. Also, you said this ticket is a month old. That will make it more difficult to handle. You should act within the first 10 days, 3 days even better, to set up your strategy. It may be too late now for some moves. When do you have to go to court? So you decide. Let me know, I may be able to furnish you with helpful information
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 7:52:34 PM EDT
I think you have quite a few options, Start here [url]http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/[/url] Then look here [url]http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&querytime=UmfIE&q=fight+a+speeding+ticket[/url]
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:03:52 PM EDT
OK, I am in the legal arena with a lead foot and have been 7 out of 8 speeding tickets in New York State. Mechanics of the process differ from state to state but this is what to expect. You should absolutely show up to Court, never plead guily on paper. Unless you are not in a municipality where the standard of guilt is 'clear and convinceing', as opposed to reasonable doubt as in 98% of the country you have a very good chance of walking away with a reduced fine and lower or no points, and a decent chance of getting a dismissal. First, the ticketing officer MUST appear in Court. If you do not see him and they call the case, the first thing out of your mouth is "The witness against me is not here, I ask this case be dismissed for failure of the prosection's only witness appear". The Assistant district attorney as the Prosecutor and the representative of the State is not in many jurisdictions entitled to an adjournment. You will know something is wrong when the ADA finds you and makes the offer of half a fine or something. If the ADA finds you and you cant see the cop that ticketed you wait for the case to be called. Another HINT! If you see the cop show up, YOU ask for an adjournment to get a lawyer. GOD I CANT TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES THIS GETS USED AGAINST ME IN COURT! As a Pro Se person they will give it to you. Now I am telling you to not lie but to get a lawyer because if the cop shows up they are coming for you. P.S. Make sure if you get an adjourment the adjourn date falls on a Friday before a holiday. Wink Wink! If the cop does not show up same dismissal rules apply! Discovery. You may have negelcted to use this. On NYS tickets there is a box on the back of the ticket where you plead not guilty entitled 'supporting deposition' HOWEVER, you have to check this and mail within 48 hours of your ticket in NYS! Wink Wink. What this is is a sheet listing the particulars of the stop. To be continued!
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:14:19 PM EDT
What radar guns was used etc. If you still have a right to discovery at this stage of the game, adjourn and ask for it. Bring your girlfriend and the certification about the speedometer, show the judge that you are doing an investigation and you care about this. If you get the adjournment, if the cop does not give you discovery, at the next hearing say so an the case can be dismissed. OK, you filed for 5 adjournments (been there, done that, after 2 adjournments you can ask for from the courthouse by telephone they need a doctor's note, Ohhhh my fucking back Ohhhh!) The Court says show up on xx/xx/xx or be arrested, You show up, the cop shows up, you broke up with your girlfriend, the company says your speedometer was 25 mph too slow, what do you do. !Make an Offer! Oh ADA man, I was sorry, look I want to keep clean, let me plead guilty and pay the whole fine but take off the points. Can we not work something out and plead guilty and go home etc. etc. Compromises and plea bargains are the grease for the system. If ADA man does not want to do it, say the same thing to the Judge when the case is called, he works with ADA man so he will either throw the book at you or make ADA man agree to the plea. OK that did not work. Cop is testifying, DA is questioning him, look at the notes the cop has to testify off of. Cops are required to keep logs of stops and things like that over and above the ticket itself. If cop is testifying from memory, or off the ticket, when you question him ask him what notes he is required to keep and where are they now. etc., etc., then try and trip him up, 'How many stops did you make that day', Ask leading questions, you are allowed as he is an adverse witness, like 'Don't you remember the black car doing 100mph in front of me, dont you think its possible you scanned him' Hit the cops training, 'When did you last calibrate the radar gun' Do you have proof of that. Is the radar gun present with you today. Is it in your car. IF THE RADAR IS, TELL HIM TO GET IT AND SHOOT IT AT THE COURTHOUSE WALL THERE IS a 75% chance it will show a speed I KID YOU NOT. Then ask the cop to touch the wall and make sure its not moving LMAO. This was used! Anyway, good luck, any more questions post em here.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:18:10 PM EDT
After all this is said and done I suggest you allow other people to drive you around for a while to help your record truly clear. If you got 3 verbal warnings that means by luck the cop did not get a good lock on your speed but it was obvious to his trained opinion that you were speeding. So you got away with it 3 times and got nabbed the 4th. Seems like your a slow learner. It's easy just set the cruise control at 5 over and you will never have a problem. Your best bet is the ticketing officer for what ever reason will not be able to show up. Your first court date is just gonna be preliminary anyway when you plead not guilty they are just going to give you an actual traffic court date anyway. If close to loosing license then a lawyer will lie for you and perhaps get you into traffic court with loss of license deferred if you promise to be good this time. Believe me I was where you are and where I am now is much better. The cost of the ticket is the least of your worries. Try paying $1200/6months liability only on a 1980 Honda Civic. So loose the performance sports car, learn what cruise control is/does, get your ass out of bed 5 minute earlier so you won't be late for every appointment, and let other folks drive for you when ever possible. The more you can reduce your road hours till you are reformed the better off you will be. Of course at your age you don't want lifestyle advice you only want how to beat the ticket advice. Well you can't fight city hall.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:38:46 PM EDT
If you don't have the time, and the fine is cheaper than wasting your time, then see if your state allows for deferred adjudication. You will pay the fine, and be on probation for something like 90 days. On the 90th day, drop by the court and sign something stating you have no tickets during that period, and the ticket will not be recorded on your record and your insurance will never know. (you still paid the fine, but you didn't have to take defensive driving, etc.) If you have the time, fight it hard!
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:39:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 8:43:21 PM EDT by COUNTY654]
Speeing tickets have little with anything to do with law enforcement. They are tax revenue plain and simple.
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Speeding is against the [b]LAW[/b], so that's why they call it [b] LAW ENFORCEMENT[/b]. Yes, some cities do use this has a tax revenue but not all. The county that I work for gets very little money for writting someone a ticket, we get $7.00 for every ticket we write.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:40:36 PM EDT
Sounds like you got all the help you need, but I figured I would just throw this in here. In the April edition of Car and Driver they have a feature called Speedometer Scandal, this is what it basically says: Average speedometer reading at 70 mph Big 3 North American brands GM: 70.49 (34 vehicles) Chrysler: 70.67 (18 vehicles) Ford: 72.12 (21 vehicles) Big 3 Japanese brands Toyota/Lexus: 70.74 (19 vehicles) Honda/Acura: 71.33 (9 vehicles) Nissan/Infiniti: 71.60 (15 vehicles) Big 3 European brands Mercedes-Benz: 70.79 (14 vehicles) VW/Audi:71.38 (21 vehicles) BMW: 73.18 (17 vehicles) It also says sorted by price luxury cars are the least accurate, and cars costing less than $20,000 were the most accurate.By category,sports cars indicate higher speeds than sedans or trucks.It went on to state that only 13 of the 200 cars tested registered below true 70 mph, and only 3 of those were below 69 mph, while 90 vehicles indicated higher than 71. 007
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 10:42:22 PM EDT
This is pretty much a repeat of what DSAFALS already said, but: [b]Lore Always Calibrate Speed Radar![/b] QUESTION: "I got my first speeding ticket last weekend, for doing 70 miles per hour in a 55 zone. The cop had radar, but shot me from three lanes and 1,000 feet away during moderate traffic. I've been driving six years and had a clean record. I heard something about requesting calibration records on the radar gun and wonder if this would be worth the effort. I'm not interested in getting out of the fine. I just don't want any points. ANSWER: "Operations manuals that come with police radar, to ensure accuracy, every radar unit is supposed to be calibrated with tuning forks before each and every working shift and also before and after being used to detect each speeding violation. The forks used to tune are also sensitive creatures: If not kept in a box protecting them from moisture and jostling, they become inaccurate. But if you watch a few traffic court trials, you'll notice that quite a few officers of the law swear they calibrated their radar units just before issuing the big ticket. What they usually mean is that they flicked on a switch built into the radar unit itself, then switched it back to regular operation. What is actually required is calibration by tuning fork and that difference may be important to you. If you ask and the officer who caught you does not testify about calibrating with a tuning fork, the slip may be enough to get you off the legal hook. [url]http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/auntie/questions.cfm-END Of Object Attempt-
ID/6245B0AB-9FC3-4F9B-81A1F43A63211870/catID/CF015A63-6B69-4EED-A34B6F4035C8BE0E[/url] Challenge the very veracity of the newfangled radar machine. For example, if there were lots of cars on the road, radar can pick up more than one car, especially if you were far away from the radaring officer. Maybe he actually hit a bigger car, which was speeding next to you. Also consider whether there were conditions of the road or of nature -- mountains, curves, bad weather, darkness -- that would have made it difficult for a good radar reading or make it hard for the officers to keep track of you. If so, this argument may also help get you off the hook as a speed demon. [url]http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/auntie/questions.cfm-END Of Object Attempt-
ID/50CFAF78-A3A9-4F44-AD6750A54F43B8EF/catID/8F965511-320B-429E-AFF92326E148C549[/url]
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 10:44:09 PM EDT
pt 2 "Radar Gun Was on the Blink" QUESTION: How often do police have to be tested to operate a radar gun? How often does the radar gun have to be taken to be calibrated? ANSWER: This varies by state and local jurisdictions. The way to find out is to fight the ticket and, before trial, demand that the prosecution hand over the manual for the particular radar unit and demand that the prosecution inform you of the training regime of the particular officer who stopped you. You can look in the manual to see how often the radar was supposed to be calibrated and then cross-examine the officer to see if it was calibrated properly. If the police officers refuse to give you the information, the law in the state of Texas -- your Lone Star home -- allows you to argue to a jury that they are trying to keep crucial information from their ears and eyes. And this might help get you off the hook on the charges. [url]http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/auntie/questions.cfm-END Of Object Attempt-
ID/A3314705-3FBE-45C2-8AF2B9C59F0F3347/catID/CF015A63-6B69-4EED-A34B6F4035C8BE0E[/url]
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 5:11:17 AM EDT
Where I work we have to carry our Radar Certification Card on our person and when we go to court we have to bring a copy of the calibration certificate with us...factors affecting the gun would be, weather...were the windshield wipers on? also the vehicles fan being on, also the proximity of other vehicles...our department policy is if its raining/ drizzling enough to have to use wipers we are not permitted to use radar...radar should be checked with a tuning fork before and after each shift/ use.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 5:12:54 AM EDT
Also the serial numbers from both radar and tuning fork is to be recorded on the ticket.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 6:30:08 AM EDT
So, to fight the ticket you go to court four or five times, play games with discovery, hope for breaks and/or risk pissing everybody off and getting the max penalty. Do you really think you're going to beat the people who do this for a living every day? Unless you have Officer Stupid, I imagine he'll be a bit better at this whole game than you. Now there's a colossal waste of time! Why don't you just ask for traffic school? You can do it in person on a Saturday, take it over the internet (not recommended), or better- do it at home by mail. Usually there are instructions on how to ask for and receive traffic school right on the ticket- you may never have to go to court at all. Of course, you'll pay more up front, but then that's just the cost of "doing business" if you speed. BTDT. What I would *never* do is trust your fate to a bunch of internet experts (including me!). BTW, the lawyer who plays games with the system by asking for 400 jury trials isn't going to last very long. Remember, all the players have to get along or they don't get to keep playing the game...
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 1:35:37 PM EDT
Well...just a few short weeks ago I got my 1st speeding ticket in 20 years on I-95 just north of Richmond...70 in a 55..so after some time to reflect on the moment I had to ask myself (1) Did I deserve this ticket? (A) DAM RIGHT I DID....lol (2) Was I racially profiled ( I'm a honkie, the trooper was black) (A) hell no,you were speeding you dumb bastard (3) Are you going to go to court and tell the judge "Your Honor, I was framed" (A) nahhhhh...he got me fair and square (4) Are you just going to just chalk this one up to for other side and just pay the dam ticket (A) Yup (5) Will this delay purchasing another 1k rounds of XM193 from ammoman before he runs out? (A) Nahhhhhh....not really. I'm just not going to give the wife as much money from income tax return as I had planned Gotta give the trooper credit...100% professional and polite, sometimes you just got to say... What the fuck
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 2:04:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zipster223: Ok last month I was accused of going 79 in a 55mph zone. The only problem is that I was only going 60mph as witnessed by my girlfriend and myself. When I was pulled over I asked to see the radar and it did say 79. I know I was not going this fast but it is going to be the officers word against mine. I am pretty sure the officer clocked the person in front of me and took me by mistake or just grabbed the first person that pulled aside. I am going to court next week but the only solid proof I have is my witness and a statement from the dealer that my speedometer is correct. The county I was pulled over in is known for corruption in their police department. So I don’t know where to stand on this any suggestions? I can’t really afford a lawyer.
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Pay by check, and over pay, they will then send a refund. Don't cash it! The way their software works is that the file is open till all transactions have cleared, therefore no points or other action. Has worked for some others.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 6:48:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Will220: Well...just a few short weeks ago I got my 1st speeding ticket in 20 years on I-95 just north of Richmond...70 in a 55..
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You got a ticket for 70 on I-95 ??? That trooper is an asshole. Around here they don't even start righting tickets till you hit 75.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:58:11 PM EDT
Just an FYI, officers don't 'calibrate' radar. That is done by the factory, usually once every three years or so. What the officer does before shift and hopefully after every ticket is to perform the tests recommended by the operator's manual for the particular radar they are using. Best advice for dealing with speeding tickets? SLOW THE HECK DOWN!!!!! I know some of you guys think all speeding enforcement is for is revenue generation, but speeding really is a major cause of serious accidents. Seen too many fatals caused by a selfish prick who thought his time was too stinking valuable to even come close to obeying the speed limit. I know there are some officers and departments who are chickenshit enough to write for 5 over, but if you were doing 15 or more over you definitely deserved it. If you know you were wrong but you go to court and lie your ass off anyway, doesn't say much about your ethics, now does it?
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:14:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:35:53 PM EDT
I have a "valetine one detector"works perfectly fine no tickets since I owned it!! Another thing to check out is a "phantom"is not a detector ,but a jammmer !! [url]http://4spycameras.com/phanraddetsc.html[/url] i have this also worked perfect for me !!!
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