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AR15.COM
7/30/2010 5:50:25 AM EDT
When shooting the El Presidente drill, are you supposed to reload from slide lock?

Or, is it at shooter's discretion?
7/30/2010 6:48:25 AM EDT
[#1]


The El Presidente

Perhaps the most famous combat pistol drill is the El Presidente drill, developed by Jeff Cooper in the 1970s and published in the January/February 1979 issue of American Handgunner magazine. This is still used as a benchmark to gauge a shooter's skills, as it tests the draw and reload, and requires good transitions and follow-through. The El Presidente drill is set up as follows:





  • 3 silhouette targets are placed 1 meter apart in a line 10 meters from the shooter


  • The shooter starts with 6 rounds in a holstered handgun, and a spare magazine or speedloader with another 6 rounds


  • The shooter begins facing directly away from the targets, often with hands clasped in front or over the head.


  • Upon the starting signal, the shooter turns and draws, fires 2 shots at each target, reloads, then fires two more shots at each target.



Scoring varies; the simplest method uses hit/miss scoring, with a time penalty (often 10 seconds) for each miss. El Presidentes scored under the IPSC Comstock system take the total number of points on the targets (possible 60 points) and divide that by the time taken to complete the drill. This generates a number called "hit factor" which is a numerical representation of how many points the shooter placed on target per second during the drill. Example: shooting 55 points in 5.5 seconds would give the shooter a 10.0 hit factor. Originally a time of 10 seconds with a stock handgun, and all the points on target, was considered good. Today shooters using modern IPSC raceguns with muzzle brakes and red dot sights are close to breaking the three second barrier, and even shooters using street-type guns with no muzzle brakes or optical sights routinely break the five second mark.[url=#cite_note-0][1][/url]

http://64.29.201.168/Expert_Advice/Drills/elpresidente.html









El Presidente



While in Guatemala training the presidential guard, Jeff Cooper devised what is now known as the El Presidente drill.



  It was developed as a means to check shooter proficiency. Cooper didn’t name the drill El Presidente, that came later when it was adopted by IPSC as a standard competition stage.

  To perform the classic version, start with your back to three Gunsite silhouette targets, 10 yards away, spaced 1 yard apart. On signal, turn, draw and engage each target with two rounds, reload and fire two more rounds at each target. It is a timed drill with a 10-second par time for semi-autos and 12 seconds for revolvers.

  To score this drill, five points are awarded for every hit in the 8-inch center ring and two points for all other hits on the target, for a possible score of 60. Five points are added to the score for every full second under 10 and five points deducted for every full second over 10. Because of the time factor, the potential exists to score more than 60.

  Cooper believed this drill was not the sort of thing one should practice. He thought it best used as a test to measure what a person was capable of, with the gear they were carrying, at any given time. He also stressed it was not necessarily the correct tactical solution when dealing with three armed threats.

  El Presidente combines several skills: turning, drawing, shooting accurately and quickly and reloading. It epitomizes the need for balancing accuracy, power and speed—Diligentia Vis Celeritas as it is often cited at Gunsite.

  According to Ed Head, the operations manager at Gunsite, "Cooper felt anyone capable of performing this drill on demand, with a suitable carry pistol, achieving a score of 45 or better, was probably an expert with their firearm and carry gear. Some professional shooters are capable of shooting this drill on large steel targets in four or five seconds. I have never seen anyone do it properly, that fast, with a good score on paper targets—the-way we still do it at Gunsite.”

  As an interesting side note, Head said he can remember Cooper riding his three-wheeler down to the range while a group of students ran through this drill. He would say, "Ed, they aren’t doing it right.” Cooper had been listening to the cadence of the shots being fired from up at his house. According to Cooper, properly done, it should sound like six evenly spaced shots, a pause for the reload and six more evenly spaced shots. Not three separate double-taps with a reload pause, then three more distinct double taps.

  For information on training at Gunsite or to order your own Gunsite silhouette targets, call Gunsite at (928) 636-4565 or visit www.gunsite.com.





Start with a six-round magazine.  Six, reload, six.  Jeff says and he invented it.
7/30/2010 6:52:11 AM EDT
[#2]
At start, turn then draw and engage each target  (3) with only two rounds each.  perform a mandatory  reload and reengage each target with only two rounds each.
No slide lock or charging involved.

Edit to add: IPSC/USPSA does not limit the number of rounds in a mag., only the number fired.
7/30/2010 7:08:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Not by my reading , you can fire 5 reload , fire 7
7/30/2010 2:23:24 PM EDT
[#4]




Quoted:

Not by my reading , you can fire 5 reload , fire 7


Jeff Cooper invented it, so he gets to say:





Head said he can remember Cooper riding his three-wheeler down to the range while a group of students ran through this drill. He would say, "Ed, they aren’t doing it right.” Cooper had been listening to the cadence of the shots being fired from up at his house. According to Cooper, properly done, it should sound like six evenly spaced shots, a pause for the reload and six more evenly spaced shots. Not three separate double-taps with a reload pause, then three more distinct double taps.



So, Colonel Cooper says its six evenly spaced shots.  Not "5 reload, then 7".  He made it up.  He's the final authority.  Anything else is a "semi-El Presidente" or a "insert-name-here" drill.



And its set-up for 6 shots so that its the same for revolvers or 1911s (and them other automatics).



7/30/2010 2:26:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Well, I shot it today; however, my revolver never got to slide lock.

As others have said, you start with six rounds, that makes is revolver neutral.












On a side note: if I am forced to weak hand only, and you are 15 yards or greater away from me; relax, you are in no danger.

 
7/30/2010 2:49:10 PM EDT
[#6]



7/30/2010 2:52:16 PM EDT
[#7]



Quoted:


XAnnK63PqF8







DAYUM!!

 
Now see, I often see folks shooting that inspire me to train harder.

THEN I SEE SOMETHING like that; and I just sigh!
7/30/2010 2:55:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:

Quoted:
XAnnK63PqF8



DAYUM!!  
Now see, I often see folks shooting that inspire me to train harder.
THEN I SEE SOMETHING like that; and I just sigh!


If it makes you feel better, he missed one.  

7/30/2010 2:58:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
XAnnK63PqF8



Holy Crap!


As an aside, a drill we run at my local club is "El Mozambique".

Three IPSC targets, each gets two to the body and one to the head, reload, and another two to the body and one to the head on each target.  18 shots, Virginia count.

We've run it as a three-part stage.  First part is at 13 yards, two handed.  Second part is at 10 yards, dominant hand only.  Third part is at 7 yards, support hand only.
7/30/2010 3:09:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
XAnnK63PqF8




That's crazy shooting. If you can do it in 7 you're a player. 3 is insane. My best ever is a little over 10. . I suck at the reloading.