[ARCHIVED THREAD] - WTF (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 6/27/2010 6:09:35 AM EDT
| what up with everyone wanting the m4 style ar15's. are ya'll planning to be clearing houses or what? i rarely see anybody with full size 20 inch barrels. |
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I like the comment about 16" barrels being easier to handle and more maneuverable. It is also true - until the shooter gets done hanging four railed handguards and a load of crap on the weapon. That is where tacticool makes zero sense and undoes any logic that might have led to the short barrelled decision.
When you consider all the cool looking vestigal additions to an M4gery, a 20" SP1 or A1 clone is both lighter and faster handling - and it gives up nothing in terms of velocity, accuracy and effective range. If you want to maximize the "short barrelled is fast and easy handling argument " (and don't want to have to go to the trouble of registering an SBR) then a 16" pencil weight barrelled carbine or an 12.5" barrelled XM177E2 semi-clone with pinned moderator is hard to beat. Someone also asked what the OP has against diversity. That cuts both ways and a gazillion M4gery's that only differ in terms of either the needless crap hung on them does, or the way in which a tacti-cool rail is executed does not make for diversty. There is room for all kinds of AR's but I think the reality is that most shooters only shoot at short rangre and most of them are not what I would call a "shooter" as that implies a level of skill most of them will never have. I currently have eight AR-15s in the gun safe and out of all of them, my M4 clone is the least capable. It is ok at several things but excels at nothing, losing out to other weapons for both close quarter combat and at longer ranges where greater precision is needed. And even if it is ok at several things, it is still only number 4 on the list of AR-15's I'd grab if I need a "do it all weapon" . Apparently everyone has to have one, but I suspect most people could not articulate a solid reason for having to have one once you get past the cool factor. |
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I like the comment about 16" barrels being easier to handle and more maneuverable. It is also true - until the shooter gets done hanging four railed handguards and a load of crap on the weapon. That is where tacticool makes zero sense and undoes any logic that might have led to the short barrelled decision. When you consider all the cool looking vestigal additions to an M4gery, a 20" SP1 or A1 clone is both lighter and faster handling - and it gives up nothing in terms of velocity, accuracy and effective range. apples and oranges. four railed handguards weigh the same as carbine handguards (at least the good ones) a load of crap? you mean a weapon light and optics? things that enhance the rifles capabilities? that's where KISS makes no sense. you substitute traditionalist bullshit for enhanced capability. what type of optic mounts exist for an A1? what about mounting a light? a 16" barrel + FH will always be shorter than a 20", i really can't understand YOUR logic in comparing the weight of the rifle vs barrel LENGTH in terms of maneuverability. the argument being made is opposite as far as velocity, accuracy, and effective range. for all intents and purposes, a carbine is just as effective for ranges out to 200m as a 20" rifle. which is why the carbine is preferred over the rifle. there needs to be a KISS retirement home forum where you KISS folks can discuss your hemorrhoids and pinochle while not bothering the rest of us with your "back in my day" bullshit. |
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I like the comment about 16" barrels being easier to handle and more maneuverable. It is also true - until the shooter gets done hanging four railed handguards and a load of crap on the weapon. That is where tacticool makes zero sense and undoes any logic that might have led to the short barrelled decision. When you consider all the cool looking vestigal additions to an M4gery, a 20" SP1 or A1 clone is both lighter and faster handling - and it gives up nothing in terms of velocity, accuracy and effective range. apples and oranges. four railed handguards weigh the same as carbine handguards (at least the good ones) a load of crap? you mean a weapon light and optics? things that enhance the rifles capabilities? that's where KISS makes no sense. you substitute traditionalist bullshit for enhanced capability. what type of optic mounts exist for an A1? what about mounting a light? a 16" barrel + FH will always be shorter than a 20", i really can't understand YOUR logic in comparing the weight of the rifle vs barrel LENGTH in terms of maneuverability. the argument being made is opposite as far as velocity, accuracy, and effective range. for all intents and purposes, a carbine is just as effective for ranges out to 200m as a 20" rifle. which is why the carbine is preferred over the rifle. there needs to be a KISS retirement home forum where you KISS folks can discuss your hemorrhoids and pinochle while not bothering the rest of us with your "back in my day" bullshit. here here hellbound |
| hahaha, I love this thread... I hear a lot of people talk about wanting an AR as a SHTF/WROL weapon. In that situation, and in most of the continental US, you will find yourself with open terrain and the need for range will be great. I agree wholeheartedly with the OP and think everyone wants a short rifle because that is trendy. A few years ago everyone had to have a Dissipator... same deal....it was trendy. If you really believe that your middy is much more maneuverable because it is 4" shorter you have sipped too much koolaid. 99.99% of end users will NEVER find themselves in a situation where 4" makes a difference. If you want to test the theory just look around... the most popular accessories now come in Flat Dark Earth and Magpul Tan... why? Most of the US is forests yet everyone is making rifles for the big sandbox... it's trendy. To each his own. I will take my 20" and the extra range and extra velocity in exchange for the "loss" in maneuverability in all of those houses that I will never clear. |
Wow this is such a technical thread with an oh-so-descriptive title...  
If I were clearing houses I would be using a 10.5-12.5" rather than a 16". Considering the majority of people shoot no farther than 100yds the difference in velocity and performance experienced is negligible. Why don't you have a 24" barrel? Your answer will likely be the same as to why most have 16" M4s. The fact that the supply of M4 type uppers/rifles is seemingly endless currently is surely a small cause as well. You have to remember that the majority of AR owners are not on Arfcom and/or get their information/recommendations from their local gun shop who, as we all know, is far from the most reliable/objective source for info. |
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Your right actually... set aside SWAT units, everyone should only own 20" barrel ar15s. screw diversity and practicality. you know, theres really no need for civilians to have those 30 round magazines either... and flash hiders! should ditch the flash hiders as well.. people really should only be allowed to own 1 type of gun.
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I only own 20" AR's. IBTL thank you for keeping it old school. and short of S.W.A.T. or military i think the 16 inch barrel is just a trend. people just wanna look cool. and yes i cleared houses in iraq for almost 4 years....USMC OORAH!!! you hate to hear stuff like that from a marine. |
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what up with everyone wanting the m4 style ar15's. are ya'll planning to be clearing houses or what? i rarely see anybody with full size 20 inch barrels. Does your Dad know you are playing on his computer? 
A 16" will do every thing I need to do out to at least 300 yards. I don't believe it is just a trend that will die out any time soon. In fact, back in the late 90's when I was shooting 3 gun, a good share of shooters were using 16" barrels. They didn't do it because it was cool, they knew that the extra 4" inches didn't matter at practical distances. To each his own. |
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I only own 20" AR's. IBTL thank you for keeping it old school. and short of S.W.A.T. or military i think the 16 inch barrel is just a trend. people just wanna look cool. and yes i cleared houses in iraq for almost 4 years....USMC OORAH!!! you hate to hear stuff like that from a marine. Affirm...it isn't in keeping with the highest tradition & makes us sound as if we're a bunch of morons. |
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what up with everyone wanting the m4 style ar15's. are ya'll planning to be clearing houses or what? i rarely see anybody with full size 20 inch barrels. I don't have or want an M4 style AR15....that's why I have an evil, baby killing, underfolding AK47. (that's the one with the shoulder thing that goes up)
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