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Posted: 6/6/2010 3:54:01 PM EDT
[#1]
No one? Geez where are all of the arfcom historians?
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Posted: 6/6/2010 4:02:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Both sides had trained snipers, but as the war went on more and more people were just handed a sniper rifle. This is true especially for the Russians but also for the Germans. You should read about how many of those thousands died - many were due to the fact that they were a good shot but received little training in actual field craft. Then again, some of them were very good.
One of the top German snipers (Allerberger) was initially a machine gunner that was wounded and sent back to recover. While he was in the rear, he started shooting a captured Mosin 91/30 out of boredom and when people started taking notice to how good he was with it, he was sent back up front with the rifle. He did not attend formal sniper training until he was well over 100 confirmed kills. |
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Posted: 6/6/2010 4:08:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Watch enemy at the gate great movie
also alot of the snipers were deployed to defend Stalingrad I would guess that most of the deaths were from bombings |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 10:38:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Watch enemy at the gate great movie also alot of the snipers were deployed to defend Stalingrad I would guess that most of the deaths were from bombings "Enemy at the gates" is bullshit in terms of historical truth. This movie is nothing to do with real story of sniper Vasily Zaitsev. Just for notice. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 10:40:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy:
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Posted: 6/7/2010 10:45:46 AM EDT
[#6]
All I know is I wouldn't want to be wearing a nazi uniform anywhere near vasily zaitsev.
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Posted: 6/7/2010 10:46:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finns! 
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Posted: 6/7/2010 10:48:11 AM EDT
[#8]
It was pretty much a slaughterhouse on the Eastern front. So your chances of making it out unscathed weren't that good. The sniper is perhaps the most hazardous infantry job because you cannot afford to make a mistake and if you're detected, you have a very low chance of escaping alive. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 10:51:04 AM EDT
[#9]
tag for info
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Posted: 6/7/2010 10:55:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Actually the truth is that the Soviets by far led the way in the Post World War I years in equipping, training and deploying snipers.
The developed specialized camouflage uniforms, specialized gear and developed models of rifles for sniping starting in the 20s. They actually went to Germany for optics during initial development work. They also spent a lot of time pre-war on training, special courses of fire and on how to properly employ snipers. They were fielded on a scale totally unmatched by Western nations and were an immediate problem for the Germans. The Germans were never able to successfully counter the Soviet sniper advantage. As an example well over 500,000 Mosin sniper rifle models were produced and fielded, along with SVT-40 semi auto designs. To put this in perspective the Soviets produced more sniper rifles in one month at the height of the war than the Brits, Common Wealth and US fielded during the entire war. Pre war and early in the war they received very good training. Later in the war, not so indepth and were expected to learn their trade at their unit. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:00:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
In one of them they mentioned that the Soviets were the only nation that entered the war with large numbers of snipers. I forgot the actual numbers involved (it was in the thousands), but they had 2000 female snipers in that number and it said by wars end they were down to like 500 total. Yes, sniper craft was very popular in Red Army and amoung soviet citizens before WW2. One female sniper killed a German sniper and found in his notbook that he had killed (or at least claimed to) 500 Soviet snipers. Now having said all that...500 by wars end is a pretty lousy number when you start with thousands and thousands.
500 "Soviet snipers" killed by one German uber-specialist? It's nonsense. Sounds like BS. I realize the fighting there was fierce, but just how well were these snipers trained/equipped?
Quite well. But training is not all, real combat experience is more important. Just handing over a scoped rifle does not make a person a sniper.
Debatable. I guess that in most cases each founded dead body with scoped rifle was counted as "killed sniper". Did they have actual training? Or did they just give scoped rifles to people that they knew to be good shots and send them out to die for the Motherland?
Soviet commanders understood the importance of the sniper craft. So they opened a special sniper schools in every military district (on the home front) with special sniper training courses for Soviet citizens. Many of young male and female were trained as snipers until they went to front line to fight nazi. Photo of girl getting training in ШШОСС could be translated as "School of excellent shooters of sniper training") sniper school 
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:07:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Many Soviet war heroes were product of Soviet propaganda machine. Some were created on purpose to boost the morale, others were created "by accident".
If you were a soviet officer, and you didn't report massive successes of your unit, you were shot by NKVD. So naturally all units reported massive successes, that's how many a soviet fighter ace or sniper ace was born. Even if these reports sounded obviously unrealistic, your superior officer didn't care and was more than happy to report them to his superior, as his own hide was also on the line. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:09:24 AM EDT
[#13]
time to break out the popcorn.
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:15:24 AM EDT
[#14]
I think snipers don't have to go to a school. It can help but many of the best were hunters to start with.
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:15:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: time to break out the popcorn. +1  |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:16:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
No one? Geez where are all of the arfcom historians? Busy reading books where this material is hidden? |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:27:38 AM EDT
[#17]
BTW how long do you think you would last as a female with a mosin nagant fighting between the Red army and the Nazi on the eastern front? The highest Soviet Female sniper has more kills then most top US snipers combined. A interesting match up would be Zaytsev vs Hayha.
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:31:47 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
BTW how long do you think you would last as a female with a mosin nagant fighting between the Red army and the Nazi on the eastern front? The highest Soviet Female sniper has more kills then most top US snipers combined. A interesting match up would be Zaytsev vs Hayha. Law of averages. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:34:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
BTW how long do you think you would last as a female with a mosin nagant fighting between the Red army and the Nazi on the eastern front? The highest Soviet Female sniper has more kills then most top US snipers combined. A interesting match up would be Zaytsev vs Hayha. Law of averages. ? |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:37:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
BTW how long do you think you would last as a female with a mosin nagant fighting between the Red army and the Nazi on the eastern front? The highest Soviet Female sniper has more kills then most top US snipers combined. A interesting match up would be Zaytsev vs Hayha. Zaystev was not the top Soviet sniper, and Hayha did his in an extremely short time period. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:40:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
BTW how long do you think you would last as a female with a mosin nagant fighting between the Red army and the Nazi on the eastern front? The highest Soviet Female sniper has more kills then most top US snipers combined. A interesting match up would be Zaytsev vs Hayha. Zaystev was not the top Soviet sniper, and Hayha did his in an extremely short time period. Meaning? I just said it would be interesting. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:43:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back... I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) 
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:45:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:47:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... Especially since Simo didn't even bother using a scoped rifle. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:47:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:49:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Contrary to the pop culture of "snipers" and the popularity of today, in the US they have had a very rocky history. Up untill the 60's IIRC sniper units/schools/teachings would be disbanded after a conflict ended because it was seen as "unpopular". Only when another major conflict arose and they were needed did everything gear back up again. Unfortunatly this took time to get up to speed and lives were lost as a result.
As far as russian snipers during WWII...its anyones guess and a mix of everything. Ive no doubt that numbers were fabricated or embelished at times. This was common practice even in manufacturing. Snipers were most likley a mix of trained soldiers, and conscripts that were pressed into service with little to no training. A simple "I hunt" might have been all it took for them to end up in a sniper unit. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:50:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: It is when he is trying to make his guy look good. Quoted: Quoted: Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade...  |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:55:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:56:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him Simo got counter sniped and taken out of the war. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:58:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Sharpshooters have been popular among many wars.
We may never know who the 'best' was , because they're likely dead and will never be in the history books. What makes someone the "Best" , is it number of people killed? Number of 'snipers' killed , or is it the longest shot they successfully made? Don't be so fooled that you believe everything the soviets said in WW2 , sure they had plenty of GREAT snipers, but they're also the same regime that covered up the murder of millions of innocent people. Never the less, Simo is my favorite sniper, he killed a BUNCH of people! |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 11:59:01 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him This plus overall mission success. Surveillance, target acquisition, demoralization of the enemy. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:09:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him Simo got counter sniped and taken out of the war. he wasnt killed. by the time he was made ineffective, he had taken out whole platoons and survived getting shelled, mortared, etc. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:13:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Actually the soviet sniping program post WW-1, where they had no snipers to speak of and suffered horribly at the hands of the Germans, was actually quite advanced compared to most other countries. The various mosin-nagant sniper rifles were actually very advanced for their time (and especially considering who built them). The optics were very practical compared to some of the early german scopes which were repurposed hunting scopes and had no practical windage adjustment. Typically the german glass was better, but the guts russian of the scopes tended to be better. I'd probably say the best sniper rifle of WW2 was the British enfield with the no32mk3 scope, followed by the mosin nagant with the PE scope, or some of the later mausers with the ZF-4, but by the time those were being built the quality was headed downhill. Pre-war the best training I would say was either british or soviet, and during the war I'd say the British maintained better training for their snipers (basically what we would call modern sniper training originated there) Soviet sniper training suffered somewhat during the war years but they made up for it in combat experience and just sheer numbers of snipers.
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:13:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: The White Death |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:16:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him Simo got counter sniped and taken out of the war. He also killed the guy that shot him ETA: Now I'm not so sure of that, I think I got that from the American Rifleman article, but I can't find any other reference. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:25:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Lyudmila would be my pick as best. She did it all and was a female.
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:29:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Meanwhile there's a redleg that has killed thousands of people with hit artillery piece and nobody will ever know...
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:31:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Meanwhile there's a redleg that has killed thousands of people with hit artillery piece and nobody will ever know... Well you can start a best observer thread. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:35:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
As far as russian snipers during WWII...its anyones guess and a mix of everything. Ive no doubt that numbers were fabricated or embelished at times. This was common practice even in manufacturing. Snipers were most likley a mix of trained soldiers, and conscripts that were pressed into service with little to no training. A simple "I hunt" might have been all it took for them to end up in a sniper unit. So the German or Finnish "sniper stats" were fabricated or embelished. I have read that Simo had many kills using SMG. WTF! His personality was more likely mythologized and propagandized. Actually, most of Soviet snipers got training in sniper schools. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:49:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Simo killed a BUNCH of soldiers. Great. Maybe, he just had good position and shit load of ammunition. Soviet attacks in Winter War were commonly poorly organized, so it was not damn hard work for Simo to increase his "kills count". He used sniper rifle just like on shooting range.
I still believe that counter-sniping work and its results was more important criterion to estimate sniper's skill, not just "dead body count". |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 1:35:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as russian snipers during WWII...its anyones guess and a mix of everything. Ive no doubt that numbers were fabricated or embelished at times. This was common practice even in manufacturing. Snipers were most likley a mix of trained soldiers, and conscripts that were pressed into service with little to no training. A simple "I hunt" might have been all it took for them to end up in a sniper unit. So the German or Finnish "sniper stats" were fabricated or embelished. I have read that Simo had many kills using SMG. WTF! His personality was more likely mythologized and propagandized. Actually, most of Soviet snipers got training in sniper schools. Westerners have for a long time thought the Soviet sniper stats were BS, due to the war on the Western Front being so different. However, with some of the recent tallies run up by US snipers many have come to the conclusion that with a target rich environment like the Eastern Front such high numbers were indeed possible. Sure there was Soviet propaganda, but all you have to do is read GERMAN after action reports to see just how effective Soviet snipers were. You don't have to take the Soviet's word for it, you can take the German soldier's word who faced them. Simo was indeed taken out of the war by a Soviet sniper. He was actually shot in the face by an exploding 54R sniper round and horribly disfigured. HOWEVER, he got back on his gun and killed the guy. Not only that, but he survived the war and lived to a ripe old age. He only passed away fairly recently. I regret never having a chance to meet him. He became the father of modern Finish sniping. Also, Simo was both an avid hunter and a highly successful competitive shooter. He won numerous competitions before the war. There is a book out on him, and its obvious he was very knowledgeable and knew what he was doing. The same could be said for a host of Soviet snipers who were competitive shooter prior to the war. The Soviets placed a large emphasis on competitive shooting, and it paid off during the war. A sniper grade Mosin had to be able to stay inside a 13 inch circle at 600 meters. I have shot clean before using a PE sniper in a 600 yard prone match.....so all my rounds were inside 12 inches. 
Where the Soviets excelled was in the proper understanding of snipers and their employment at all levels from squad level up to regiment level. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 1:45:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
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Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him Simo got counter sniped and taken out of the war. He also killed the guy that shot him ETA: Now I'm not so sure of that, I think I got that from the American Rifleman article, but I can't find any other reference. He did. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 1:47:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as russian snipers during WWII...its anyones guess and a mix of everything. Ive no doubt that numbers were fabricated or embelished at times. This was common practice even in manufacturing. Snipers were most likley a mix of trained soldiers, and conscripts that were pressed into service with little to no training. A simple "I hunt" might have been all it took for them to end up in a sniper unit. So the German or Finnish "sniper stats" were fabricated or embelished. I have read that Simo had many kills using SMG. WTF! His personality was more likely mythologized and propagandized. Actually, most of Soviet snipers got training in sniper schools. Coming from you it looks like (and is) sour grapes. I have never heard anyone say that the Finns embellished their records, and it would not fit the national character. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 2:03:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as russian snipers during WWII...its anyones guess and a mix of everything. Ive no doubt that numbers were fabricated or embelished at times. This was common practice even in manufacturing. Snipers were most likley a mix of trained soldiers, and conscripts that were pressed into service with little to no training. A simple "I hunt" might have been all it took for them to end up in a sniper unit. So the German or Finnish "sniper stats" were fabricated or embelished. I have read that Simo had many kills using SMG. WTF! His personality was more likely mythologized and propagandized. Actually, most of Soviet snipers got training in sniper schools. Coming from you it looks like (and is) sour grapes. I have never heard anyone say that the Finns embellished their records, and it would not fit the national character. I will disagree with that. My friend in Finland has a husband who has a big F***** mouth and ALWAS brings this stuff up but never talks about the end of the wars when the Russians made Finland piss their pants disarm and then turn on the Nazi allies. They are cool people though if you knew some you would know what I mean. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 2:12:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Watch enemy at the gate great movie also alot of the snipers were deployed to defend Stalingrad I would guess that most of the deaths were from bombings "Enemy at the gates" is bullshit in terms of historical truth. This movie is nothing to do with real story of sniper Vasily Zaitsev. Just for notice. Primorsky speaks the truth here............... ETA:I would add that youths and men from Siberia were often the most experienced in shooting and were highly prized as snipers by the army. ETA2:There is a section in Ivan's War where one of the female sniper veterans Catherine Merridale interviewed mentions the drills that she and other recruits were put through. She said something along the lines of "we had to learn how to field strip a rifle so well that we could do it with our eyes closed, how to read the wind and the exact distance to the target". |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 3:00:06 PM EDT
[#46]
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Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him This plus overall mission success. Surveillance, target acquisition, demoralization of the enemy. 0612 knows of what he speaks. 1 General officer,Foward observer,Chaplain,or any other high value target are worth 50 snuffies to the war effort. You might not look as good in the books but your single shot will have a larger impact. Some of the best Sniper missions result in no shots by the Sniper team. I would damn sure rather call in a Arty fire mission or a JADAM strike and take out a target than fire my rifle and give up my position,and a 155 has more affect on target than a .308. Movies and fiction books never get it right. <––––––- U.S. Army Sniper trobertson5-0 |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 3:09:30 PM EDT
[#47]
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Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him This plus overall mission success. Surveillance, target acquisition, demoralization of the enemy. 0612 knows of what he speaks. 1 General officer,Foward observer,Chaplain,or any other high value target are worth 50 snuffies to the war effort. You might not look as good in the books but your single shot will have a larger impact. Some of the best Sniper missions result in no shots by the Sniper team. I would damn sure rather call in a Arty fire mission or a JADAM strike and take out a target than fire my rifle and give up my position,and a 155 has more affect on target than a .308. Movies and fiction books never get it right. <––––––- U.S. Army Sniper trobertson5-0 A sniper's worth can be measured in many ways. Sometimes 50 kills is better then what you have mentioned due to propaganda, fear ect. Depends on the war and situation. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 3:14:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Its not the russian snipers you have to worry about. Its this guy: Finnish sniper Simo Hayha might had many "scores" or kills. But it does not means that he was the best sniper of all times. How many enemy snipers he killed? It's was much easier for him to kill half-frozen soviet soldiers during poor organized Soviet attacks. Common soldiers unlikely were able to hit Simo Hayha back. I have read about one significant Soviet sniper Vasiliy Golosov, who personally killed 70 German snipers with total "score" of 422 kills . Vasily was killed in action by enemy aviation and artillery strike (8.16.1943.) http://www.peoples.ru/military/hero/vasiliy_golosov/golosov_golosov1_s.jpg A Sniper's success isn't judged by his ability to kill other Snipers comrade... What is it judged by? kills period. u have to remember that simo killed just about everybody that came after him This plus overall mission success. Surveillance, target acquisition, demoralization of the enemy. 0612 knows of what he speaks. 1 General officer,Foward observer,Chaplain,or any other high value target are worth 50 snuffies to the war effort. You might not look as good in the books but your single shot will have a larger impact. Some of the best Sniper missions result in no shots by the Sniper team. I would damn sure rather call in a Arty fire mission or a JADAM strike and take out a target than fire my rifle and give up my position,and a 155 has more affect on target than a .308. Movies and fiction books never get it right. <––––––- U.S. Army Sniper trobertson5-0 A sniper's worth can be measured in many ways. Sometimes 50 kills is better then what you have mentioned due to propaganda, fear ect. Depends on the war and situation. These are very good points. We had a sniper team set up in front of a patrol base (guys resting for the night, continue in a few hours) and when the Taliban started to creep up to them they DIDN'T fire a shot, just whispered a warning into the radios, this alerted everyone and when the Taliban column reached the patrol base the ambush was sprung. THEN the snipers could shoot but this way instead of killing 1-5 guys we dropped 15+. And the sniper got a kill with a knife through a Taliban's eye. That's sexy stuff, I don't care who you are. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 3:20:32 PM EDT
[#49]
No. Not really. A dead General is hard to make up and if he is a good one,hard to replace. The same goes for other high value targets. It was very easy for your Russian brethren to say they killed 500 unknown German privates because 1.No one could disprove it 2. Nobody cared.
Dead privates are a part of war and expected. Bag a division commander and that hurts the war effort far in excess of the loss of one man. Bag a good FO and your enemies arty fire gets a little less accurate,saving lives. Bag a loved and respected officer and the enemy will be hesitant to follow his replacement. Fewer hight value targets will always be better than lots of faceless Joes. There isn't a single Sniper in Iraq who wouldn't trade all his kills for a shot at Mookie or one in Afghanistan who wouldn'ty do the same for Osama. |
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Posted: 6/7/2010 3:33:07 PM EDT
[#50]
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No. Not really. A dead General is hard to make up and if he is a good one,hard to replace. The same goes for other high value targets. It was very easy for your Russian brethren to say they killed 500 unknown German privates because 1.No one could disprove it 2. Nobody cared. Dead privates are a part of war and expected. Bag a division commander and that hurts the war effort far in excess of the loss of one man. Bag a good FO and your enemies arty fire gets a little less accurate,saving lives. Bag a loved and respected officer and the enemy will be hesitant to follow his replacement. Fewer hight value targets will always be better than lots of faceless Joes. There isn't a single Sniper in Iraq who wouldn't trade all his kills for a shot at Mookie or one in Afghanmistan who wouldn'ty do the same for Osama. No not really. Carlos Hathcock killed a General in Vietnam and it didn't change much instead he said it made things possibly worse. I'm quite sure the Germans cared how many of their friends got killed. The units getting snipered was Germany's best units and it had a large impact on the war. If you are a US sniper in Iraq you may think this way but if you are an insurgent sniper in Iraq then 50 kills will make you a legend, would make the US spend millions trying to invent a machine to detect snipers, could help change the public opinion and or election results ect. Killing one officer or observer can be covered up alot easier by just saying small arms fire. The British wanted to sniper Hitler but didn't because they figured he would do more damage to Germany alive. lol |
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