After reading the other post on the $270 Romanian SAR-1's, and looking into it, why on earth am I so obsessed with the idea of getting an AK clone?

Corey

You need to get your head on right son.  A SAR-1 is a cheap imitation of a real battle weapon.  It has a poor finish, cheap metal and a crappy stock.  If we ever have another Y2k you will play hell converting it to a useful weapon.  Better to save your money and try and find a good used 84S or milled Bulgarian.

get one.

Corey,

man, I just bought one today......I paid more than $270, but I don't care.  Is it the best AK out there.......no.  Does it shoot like hell....yes. My intent today was to buy a Muaser M96 straight pull bolt action, but I came home with the SAR and a Argentine Sistema.  I feel good about the purchases.  Shoot the hell out of it, and let me know how it goes!!!  IMHO, you get what you pay for, but what the hell, I have owned worse guns before.

Jarhead

I say get one. I've said it before. Everyman should own an AK.

The the only crappy metal in it is the cheap trigger group, and it can be replaced. Romanian rifles are fine rifles. Not always pretty, but damn functional and at a great price.

The only thing I'd say to deter you from the SAR-1 is to recommend holding out for a 5.45 AK74. I finally got one and it's great.

 

I like mine fine. Fit and finish not as nice as my Chinese MAK90 but reliable and effective. It will take a licking and keep on ticking. Never had an AK jam, fail to feed, or otherwise fail. Hey, if the SHTF, the AK's will still be going when the AR15's die. Is the AR15 a better weapon? Yes. Is it more reliable and longer lasting in a rough, dirty environment, with little maintenance? No. Ask all the US guys running around Afghanistan with plastic wrapped carbines!

I haven't actually ordered one.  Just have my interest severely piqued.

I'm the type of guy who starts off thinking economically about a project, but finds a way to talk myself into higher end gear.  Kind'a the ideas that Flash 66 was floating.

But what is the scoop on AK clones?  What is the "gold standard" versus the junker model?  I'm presuming that the SAR-1's have stamped receivers and some of the higher end models have milled.  What are the price and other differences that I should know about AK clones?

Heck, I spent plenty of time cleaning M16's on the barracks bleachers in BT and AIT.  After a USAR stint and some studying, I pretty much knew what makes an AR15 tick and the difference between a good and bad one.  But I've only briefly handled an AK clone.  I have no idea what the guts are like, how to fix (if you can) canted sights, etc.

I'm kind'a enamored with the AK clone right now because with accessories it fits right about in the niche of AR15 accessories I was planning to purchase this year.  So, I can get a new firearm, or an Aimpoint or other accessories for my AR15.

What's an AK clone got going for it?  They're inexpensive (heck, I remember when they were $100), mags are cheap, ammo is cheap, they're rugged, reliable -- basically a great beater rifle that I don't expect to much from, but I don't have to give all the much attention to.  I'd almost want to leave it in the trunk of my car just in case I could sneak out to the range on any given day.  And then there's the whole AK 7.62X39 thing.  I'd like to become proficient with our "enemy's" rifle.  Right now I'd have to fumble to figure out which way the safety wipes off.

I don't know....  [:\]

I purchased a SAR1 about a year ago. I quickly SOLD the thing! The safety lever kept creeping up into safe position as I would shoot and the gun would suddenly stop functioning. Also, the bolt doesnt lock back when the last round is fired. You can never tell if the gun stopped shooting because it jammed, the safety slid into the safe position again, or you are actually out of ammo.

I love my Sar1's and 2's.  2 words.  Trigger slap.  OUCH.  Somre more bad words are Sheppards hook.  What a pita.  [:D]

Corey,

As far as quality AK clones go, the Bulgarian clones are very decent rifles. You might want to do some reasearch into the SLR-95, SA-93, SA-M7 (tennesseeguns.com sells them I believe), etc. They have milled recievers, Steyr barrels (chrome lined of course and they have the reputation for lasting a LONG time), quality triggers, good furnature, etc.

I do own a SA-93. It came with a damn butthole stock so I sent it to a gunsmith to get some mods done (including turning it into a bush rifle :)...should be NICE when I get it back, and I have a russian Kobra collimator sight I plan on mounting on it.
Overall it cost me more than most would pay for a postban "AK", but I wanted a very reliable, tough gun that I could trust my life to in a SHTF scenario (ammo might be an issue w/ SHTF but I have enough 7.62x39 to keep it fed for awhile. Oh yeah, pick up a Chineese 75 or 100 round drum for it too, BADASS! [:)]

ak-47.net is a great site with LOTs of info on AKs.

Good luck,

Robby

never understood why www.ar15.com is a censored word on ak-47.net.


So how much does a nice bulgarian AK like that go for?

Because they are such a bunch of pussies over there. Can't handle the truth or sources of it.

Do yourself a favor, if you are going to get one get a good one. If you can't afford a pre-ban then get your self a SA-M7 or one of the older SSR-85B/C that were built on the FEG receivers. The fit and finish on these are excellent (although the newer Arsenal USA guns have had some serious quality control problems).

Kyle

I know exactly what you mean. I got the same bug about six months ago. I bought a 2001 model SAR-1 about 3 months ago and I'm very happy with it. Sure the finish looks like crap, but it preforms flawlessly and apears to be put together very solid. Look at it this way, if you don't like it, you are only out about $300 and you can always sell it at the next show. There is never any shortage of people looking to buy these things. I saw no less than 10 SARS go out the door at the last show.

Get one, what the hell else can you give so much fun for under $300. I have the Sar-1 and Sar-2, love both of them, they just plain work.

I've got a SAR1 and a MAK90, and I love both.  Both are plenty accurate for a 16" barreled short rifle.  Both shoot around a 2-1/2 to 3 inch group at 100yards easy, without me getting all serious with a good rest or anything, just resting my elbows on the bench...  This super-horrid AK accuracy business is crap.  Most people wouldn't shoot much better if any with a shorty AR or Mini-14 with the same shooting position.  And I'm using cheap ass Wolf ammo, which doesn't tear up/gum up my AK like some finicky space gun either...

I would snag the SAR if I were you.  Go to a gunshow and buy one that you can check out.  Get one that has decent wood, straight sites, etc.  You cannot beat the SAR1 for the price.  

Although the finish isn't as good, the action and trigger are slightly more gritty, etc, I kinda like the SAR1 over my MAK90.  Shoots great.  Don't know why I like it more...

I don't know if the people who tell such horror stories about the AK made it up completely to slam them somehow, or got some second hand, ham-fisted POS from bubba the gunsmith, or what, but jeeeeez.  I've seen 100s of SAR1s, and shot like 10+ first hand and all have been very nice.  Mine is really nice, sites are 100% straight, wood is actually fairly good, etc, and it's a 99 model too...  Everything except for the wood (from what I've seen, newer finish is ass IMO unless I'm crazy...) got better as the newer runs went on.

If you can find a Chinese or Bulgarian AK for a good price they are better AKs, but the SAR1 will undoubtedly be cheaper, and won't fail you unless someone fucked it up.  How you could even manage to do that without being a complete and total idiot is beyond me...  A good shooting buddy of mine has a bulgarian SLR-95, which used to sell for the same prices as SARs are selling for now.  It is a really nice AK, on par with my particular MAK90 as far as overall quality IMO.  I like the all black look of the SLR95, and the factory muzzle compensator, but it's kinda heavy with the milled receiver (which for the record offers no benefit over stamped).  You will however now end up spending around $500 for one, probably worth it but it bothers me to pay that when they used to be $275...  

BTW, if you have any trigger slap with the SAR1, you can take care of that in 15 minutes total including disassebly/assembly, assuming you have access to something like a dremel with a small cutoff wheel or something similar.  Not a big deal at all.  There is a link off the message boards at ak-47.net with full detailed, step by step instructions with pictures.  You'd have to search for it, I don't have it handy.  The culprit is a extra piece of metal sticking off the back of the disconnector, which hits the base of the trigger as the action cycles.  It's not there on the original Romanian disconnector.  No idea why Century put that piece there...  Anyway, find the article and you're clearly see what I'm talking about.  Very easy fix, even if you don't have a dremel, a small cutoff wheel in a drill will do fine as well.  

Here's mine with my SKS and MAK90...
[img]http://www.inter-scape.com/ray/weaps.gif[/img]

Get one!!!  I have owned milled a mak 90, and a stamped Mak 90, a Maadi Hi cap and 2 sar 1 rifles, and a Sar 3.

Currently I own a 99 version SAR 1 and a 2000 version SAR 3.  

When people say that they are poorly finished, it is all relative.  I had a Maadi.  NOW THAT WAS A BAD FINISH!!!  I stripped it, and recoated it with brownells bake on moly coat and it looked awesome.

Sold it for a major profit eventually but not because it was junk.

My SAR 1, and 3 are completely reliable and shoot just fine.  THe SAR 3 now has an american made copy of the black polymer bulgarian stockset.  And it looks just as good as my Bushmaster AR 15.  Funner then heck to shoot and they are 2-4 inch accurate at 100 yards.  That is fine with me for what they are.  THe SAR 3 is more accurate then that and I love the cartridge it shoots.  5.45X39 I think.



Get one, you won't regret it!

patsue

FYI the SAR2 shoots 5.45x39, the SAR3 is in .223...

... two words



... [b][size=6][red]BUMP FIRE[/red][/size=6][/b]

(ain't nothing easier to master it on)

At those prices ($300 -), I'm looking into getting one also.  I have an AR15 and will build another this summer.  I also want some of the other battle rifles, like the L1A1, AK47, FAL, CETME or another G3 clone.  This is my definition of "DIVERSITY".  

... Quit dreaming, I have a WASR I'll ship to your FFL for $350

I would go for the SAR-2 i have both the SAR 1 and 2.I choose the SAR-2 over the 1 becasue of the 5.45 round,and mags are cheaper.

I have no regrets about purchasing my SAR1. If you do buy one try to look it over to make sure everything is on straight.

Crappy wood can be turned around by stripping, staining and some linseed oil.

Crappy painted finish can be turned around by field stripping, remove all furniture, scrubbing the entire weapon with Brillo pads and water to remove the flat black paint. Then a good wipe down with cold bluing.

Trigger slap can be reduced if not removed by modification of the trigger. Search the AK side for pics on the mod.

Shoot and have fun! The only feeding problems I've had were caused by older surplus mags. The kind you see advertised "4 for $20". Get some new unissued mags if possible.

Get thee to Home Depot and buy some of those "e clips".  They snap on the pin itself and you never have to mees with the sheppard's hook again!  It lets you easily replace innards, and I will have to admit to replacing on of my hooks incorrectly which resulted in the pin working loose during firing.  No longer with the clips.  These are what should be in there in the first place!  I used 1/4 inch clips, but I don't know if my MAK-90 is a different size than eruo-AKs.

Ross

I had a mak-90 had no problem with it in fact it had a chromed bolt and piston. I didn't like the blonde wood or thumb hold so i stained it dark. wasn't enough so i traded in in on a svt-40.  well i want to tell you i had over 2,000 rnds for this beast so i sold my sks folding stock .ect and bought a sar-1 for about 350.00 it had the pistol grip and shity wood finnish, not shitty wood! It shoots like a dream! When you are talking AK you are talking about 870 wingmaster, mosseberg 500 they ain't pretty but damn they just keep on shooting  there ain't no bad aks ,just some made better than others!  Like AR/15  some guys got all the cash in the world won't buy a colt! Buy a bushmaster or an armalite.  Some guys have a pre-ban ar made by sterling wouldn.t take the world for it! Hell even here on ar/15 the LEGP rifle is a DPMS some guys wouldn't even own one!  On the ak side it would be probably a russian,bulgarian,eygptian, romanian(sar-1)  But cost is what motivates me i got a sar-1 and i love the way it works! I got a bushy 16inc so i can have the best of both worlds!  But i you kick in my front door i got to tell you my ak/w 30 rnds hollow points is going to make more of an impression on you than my ar/15 w/62grn hollow points  with 30 rnds is ever going to do.  But if you step out to 150 yrds well then...Time for the hakim ,25 rnd 7.92x57..You can't go wrong with the SAR-1 and soon they will be ALL-GONE... GET ONE..  bob cole

Lots of good advice here.  I'd also bounce this question off of the guys at ak.ar15.com, or do a search for a similar question.  I seem to remember that it's been asked before and if your interested in collecting as many opinions as you can, then it might be worth a look.

Winston_Wolf,

I think I heard two of my favorite words...

[url]http://redstararms.com/pix/hac.WMV[/url]

Charles

IMHO, it is a FINE AK clone, and you cannot beat the price.  I have one, and it has NEVER failed me!  Yeah, it's an ugly mule, but I like that!  Seen a pretty AK in those pictures of Pakistan yet?  Didn't think so!

[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/CAMPYBOB%2Fak%2D74%2Ejpg[/img]


kalashnikov! accept no substitute!

I enjoy my SLR-95.

Buy a VEPR, the Bushmaster of AK rifles.

I own an SLR95 (among other things) It is a very good rifle. Finish is good, has a chrome lined barrel..accuracy and range isn't as good as my M1A. But its reliability as well as its durability is legendary.

For Magazines and Drums: I find that Hungarian and East German Magazines are the best. And the Drums: East German.

I think everyone should own an AK if for no other reason to just to be familiar and proficient with them. They are basically a cheap POS but reliable weapon. I would have a difficult time ever justifying spending more than $400 on one. They just aren't worth anymore than that and once you go even higher and start getting into the AR price range, it's simply no contest.

I have a couple of Norinco MAK-90s. They are okay, very reliable, but not too accurate. Ever since I got into 7.62x39 ARs, I rarely shoot the AKs any more. It's so much funner to actually hit what you are shooting at. [:)]

Oops, Someone corrected me.  I have an SAR 2 which shoots the 5.45X39.  The SAR 3 shoots the 223.

Between my SAR1 and SAR2 I prefer the SAR2.  Low recoil and the rifle is more accurate.  It doesn't bump fire nearly as easily as the SAR1 does though.

I repeat, GET ONE!!!

I don't think I would get the 223 version though, I have an AR 15 for that.

patsue

You're not serious, right?

Mine always goes bang. Groups well enough. Cheap. Cheap ammo. Cheap mags.

Oh, and you were teasing about [i]another Y2k[/i] right? Yeah, it would hell to convert an SAR into a useful weapon in the event that I were to wake up one day and it was business as usual.

It is good see that some here have a very good sense of humor.

Six

Are you trying to tell the people on AR15.com that YOU didn't convert all your AKs and ARs to full auto rock and roll in December 1999?  Truly you jest!