[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Firearms Skill Level Chart (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 4/20/2010 4:36:50 PM EDT
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From my experience in interacting with most of the following, I rank them as follows:
1. Elite Trainers - These train Elite forces. 2. Elite Forces - These people are highly trained and use firearms on a near daily basis. 3. Trainers - These people train hobbyists, military, police, etc. 4. Hobbyists - Dedicated people who make running and gunning a serious sport. Examples are IDPA, 3-gun, carbine clubs, etc. 5. Military - Basic training, plus maybe some more training creates a viable soldier. 6. LEOs - They carry a gun for living, but may not be very skilled. Some are, most aren't. 7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees. 8. Gun owners - They own a firearm and may have fired it a few times. Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse ETA: Thanks to all who have replied. I haven't laughed this much in a while. You are all priceless to me and I mean that. No sarcasm at all. |
I am a hobbyist and I also hunt. 
ETA Actually. I have done some 3 gun before, but not in a long time. So I do not run any kind of class or event, I just go to the range a lot and know my weapons very well. But I have what I think your "hobbyist" level skill is. So I don't truly fit anywhere in there. |
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Quoted: I am a hobbyist and I also hunt. ETA Actually. I have done some 3 gun before, but not in a long time. So I do not run any kind of class or event, I just go to the range a lot and know my weapons very well. But I have what I think your "hobbyist" level skill is. So I don't truly fit anywhere in there. There needs to be a "Shooting Enthusiast" category below "Hobbyist" but above "Gun Owner," maybe right above "Hunter." |
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7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees.
That's kind of insulting don't ya think? As far as the highlighted part, is there ever any guarantees that you'll hit a target at an unknown distance? Konger |
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I don't know how it works in the US .mil, but in the IDF, the trainers don't have nearly the same ability as the people who they are teaching. The trainers are jobniks nomatter who they're training. It's the soldiers that receive numerous evolutions in training, by different trainers, and in different aspects of handling.
In order to actually create a chart worth a damn you have to have an idea of what you're measuring. If you're measuring strictly proficiency, ie: being able to hit targets really fast and accurately, I'd say that the hobbyists have everybody beat. All they need to do is to shoot quickly and accurately. Soldiers, elite or line, require firearms as only one part of a very large skillset. |
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7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees.[/quote]
That's kind of insulting don't ya think? As far as the highlighted part, is there ever any guarantees that you'll hit a target at an unknown distance? Konger It is also insulting to mark every "hunter" as pretty much an idiot with a gun. http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=10 |
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Shooting is way too varied to pin down to these categories, and all the different shooting skills don't really fit in those categories. There are Olympic shooters who might outshoot someone who fits in that Elite Trainer category, in their own discipline. And a bird hunter might outshoot both of them when it comes to wing shooting.
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I don't quite fit. I shoot better than I should consider how often I get to the range. I'm not into running and gunning, but more of the sniping mentality. Wait for hours if need be to drill the bullseye. Arfcommers should of course be on top of the list. When the elite trainers have a problem, they come to us.  CJ |
| Not to mention a fireteam of hobbyists are not used to having the ability to call in airstrikes or just nail it with an AT4. They might actually edge out the .mil guys in a straight up firefight with no outside reinforcements or heavy weapons and vehicles. I can run a rifle better than some military guys, but it doesn't matter when the steel rain ruins my day. |
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No one I know fits into any of the 'Non-LEO' categories.
Where are the enthusiasts that love to shoot, but can only have the time to shoot every once in a while due to ammo prices? Where do the hunters that play skeet and trap every weekend? They have a few rifles, sight them in once a year then spend the rest of their time on the skeet field? |
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7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees.[/quote]
That's kind of insulting don't ya think? As far as the highlighted part, is there ever any guarantees that you'll hit a target at an unknown distance? Konger It is also insulting to mark every "hunter" as pretty much an idiot with a gun. http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=10 For some reason that stereotype exists, even though the average soldier isn't an expert marksman either. |
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Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse My input: I long, long ago stopped worrying about what categories other people created to put me in. This chart is for conversational use only, not to "worry" about anything. My motto is "What, me worry?" I tell people that I am too old to be bullied, humiliated, pressured, or charmed. No worries. |
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Think of it like this:
1. English Bob 2. Sheriff Little Bill 3. William Munny English Bob was the Duke of Death. Sheriff Little Bill was a law abiding Sheriff. William Munny was an aging farmer who couldn't hit a tin can with a revolver so he had to use a shotgun. All that was pointless when Little Bill arrested and beat up English Bob and then William Munny just killed everyone in the bar. It was fiction, but of all three men, English Bob probably had the most shooting skill. Little Bill had the most nerve and guts. William Munny had the coolest head when he needed it and didn't panic. Sometimes #3 can beat #1 or #2 regardless of training. Grouping people together that way is pointless. |
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From my experience in interacting with most of the following, I rank them as follows: 1. Keyboard Commandos-They live in mother's basement subsisting off of Dorito's and Mountain Dew Code Red. They sport 6XL BDU pants, and pizza stained plate carriers. Their e-high speed low drag is unmatched. 1. 2. Elite Trainers - These train Elite forces. 2. 3. Elite Forces - These people are highly trained and use firearms on a near daily basis. 3. 4. Trainers - These people train hobbyists, military, police, etc. 4. 5. Hobbyists - Dedicated people who make running and gunning a serious sport. Examples are IDPA, 3-gun, carbine clubs, etc. 5. 6. Military - Basic training, plus maybe some more training creates a viable soldier. 6. 7. LEOs - They carry a gun for living, but may not be very skilled. Some are, most aren't. 7. 8. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees. 8. 9. Gun owners - They own a firearm and may have fired it a few times. Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse Fixed. |
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From my experience in interacting with most of the following, I rank them as follows: 1. Elite Trainers - These train Elite forces. 2. Elite Forces - These people are highly trained and use firearms on a near daily basis. 3. Trainers - These people train hobbyists, military, police, etc. 4. Hobbyists - Dedicated people who make running and gunning a serious sport. Examples are IDPA, 3-gun, carbine clubs, etc. 5. Military - Basic training, plus maybe some more training creates a viable soldier. 6. LEOs - They carry a gun for living, but may not be very skilled. Some are, most aren't. 7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees. 8. Gun owners - They own a firearm and may have fired it a few times. Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse Gotta tell you, I was an RSO during the National Patrol Rifle Competition last year. This is a "best of the best" competition between US SWAT teams along with a few Canadian entries. What I saw was a real eye opener. Terrible handling skills, blatant disrespect for safe handling of firearms, and worst of all some of them couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a damned shotgun. I saw three elite officers drop the hammer on an empty chamber on their carbines in a computer scored hostage simulation...... I think that the many of ARFCOMMERS who are enthusiasts but never taken any firearms training would come out ahead of most of the officers who competed that weekend. |
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7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees.
That's kind of insulting don't ya think? As far as the highlighted part, is there ever any guarantees that you'll hit a target at an unknown distance? Konger As a hunter and having rubbed elbows with quite a few hunters, my description may be hurtful, but I think it is accurate. I have heard many a story of hunters shooting over deer, taking 3 shots to connect, wounding, etc. My point is this. As a hunter, it is my duty to know my weapons ballistics to reliably harvest meat within the limits of my ability. This means not taking a risky shot and possibly wounding an animal. The way some hunters throw lead, it appears obvious that they don't subscribe to this philosophy. -White Horse |
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Quoted: From my experience in interacting with most of the following, I rank them as follows: 1. Elite Trainers - These train Elite forces. 2. Elite Forces - These people are highly trained and use firearms on a near daily basis. 3. Trainers - These people train hobbyists, military, police, etc. 4. Hobbyists - Dedicated people who make running and gunning a serious sport. Examples are IDPA, 3-gun, carbine clubs, etc. 5. Military - Basic training, plus maybe some more training creates a viable soldier. 6. LEOs - They carry a gun for living, but may not be very skilled. Some are, most aren't. 7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees. 8. Gun owners - They own a firearm and may have fired it a few times. Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse What level do you have to be to rate others? |
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7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees.
That's kind of insulting don't ya think? As far as the highlighted part, is there ever any guarantees that you'll hit a target at an unknown distance? Konger As a hunter and having rubbed elbows with quite a few hunters, my description may be hurtful, but I think it is accurate. I have heard many a story of hunters shooting over deer, taking 3 shots to connect, wounding, etc. My point is this. As a hunter, it is my duty to know my weapons ballistics to reliably harvest meat within the limits of my ability. This means not taking a risky shot and possibly wounding an animal. The way some hunters throw lead, it appears obvious that they don't subscribe to this philosophy. -White Horse So you put shooters into 8 classes of skill. Genius. Every single one of those categories will have people with a huge variety of skill with firearms, which is subjective anyway; plus all the people in more than one category. You want my input? Your list would be worth something if you printed it on toilet paper... once. What is the point anyway? |
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From my experience in interacting with most of the following, I rank them as follows: 1. Keyboard Commandos-They live in mother's basement subsisting off of Dorito's and Mountain Dew Code Red. They sport 6XL BDU pants, and pizza stained plate carriers. Their e-high speed low drag is unmatched. 1. 2. Elite Trainers - These train Elite forces. 2. 3. Elite Forces - These people are highly trained and use firearms on a near daily basis. 3. 4. Trainers - These people train hobbyists, military, police, etc. 4. 5. Hobbyists - Dedicated people who make running and gunning a serious sport. Examples are IDPA, 3-gun, carbine clubs, etc. 5. 6. Military - Basic training, plus maybe some more training creates a viable soldier. 6. 7. LEOs - They carry a gun for living, but may not be very skilled. Some are, most aren't. 7. 8. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees. 8. 9. Gun owners - They own a firearm and may have fired it a few times. Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse Fixed. Heavy 6 representin'! |
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From my experience in interacting with most of the following, I rank them as follows: 1. Elite Trainers - These train Elite forces. 2. Elite Forces - These people are highly trained and use firearms on a near daily basis. 3. Trainers - These people train hobbyists, military, police, etc. 4. Hobbyists - Dedicated people who make running and gunning a serious sport. Examples are IDPA, 3-gun, carbine clubs, etc. 5. Military - Basic training, plus maybe some more training creates a viable soldier. 6. LEOs - They carry a gun for living, but may not be very skilled. Some are, most aren't. 7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees. 8. Gun owners - They own a firearm and may have fired it a few times. Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse Gotta tell you, I was an RSO during the National Patrol Rifle Competition last year. This is a "best of the best" competition between US SWAT teams along with a few Canadian entries. What I saw was a real eye opener. Terrible handling skills, blatant disrespect for safe handling of firearms, and worst of all some of them couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a damned shotgun. I saw three elite officers drop the hammer on an empty chamber on their carbines in a computer scored hostage simulation...... I think that the many of ARFCOMMERS who are enthusiasts but never taken any firearms training would come out ahead of most of the officers who competed that weekend. Sadly, this is why I would categorize a lot of SWAT guys in with the LEO's. Cool gear does not a rifleman make, even if you can blow open a door. |
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Quoted: Quoted: 7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees. That's kind of insulting don't ya think? As far as the highlighted part, is there ever any guarantees that you'll hit a target at an unknown distance? Konger As a hunter and having rubbed elbows with quite a few hunters, my description may be hurtful, but I think it is accurate. I have heard many a story of hunters shooting over deer, taking 3 shots to connect, wounding, etc. My point is this. As a hunter, it is my duty to know my weapons ballistics to reliably harvest meat within the limits of my ability. This means not taking a risky shot and possibly wounding an animal. The way some hunters throw lead, it appears obvious that they don't subscribe to this philosophy. -White Horse It's not just inaccurate, it's plain pathetic. WTF are YOU to rate anyone? |
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From my experience in interacting with most of the following, I rank them as follows: 1. Elite Trainers - These train Elite forces. 2. Elite Forces - These people are highly trained and use firearms on a near daily basis. 3. Trainers - These people train hobbyists, military, police, etc. 4. Hobbyists - Dedicated people who make running and gunning a serious sport. Examples are IDPA, 3-gun, carbine clubs, etc. 5. Military - Basic training, plus maybe some more training creates a viable soldier. 6. LEOs - They carry a gun for living, but may not be very skilled. Some are, most aren't. 7. Hunters - They zero their rifles and can mostly shoot a static target at an unknown distance, but no guarantees. 8. Gun owners - They own a firearm and may have fired it a few times. Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse What level do you have to be to rate others? 200. Guy with keyboard.  Seriously, this isn't meant to make anyone butt-hurt, but it seems to be stirring up some dialogue. Dialogue is what a bbs is for, right?
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Your input would be appreciated. -White Horse My input: I long, long ago stopped worrying about what categories other people created to put me in. This. I "could" fit into no less than three of the OP's "categories" but as with many other things, I tend to defy categorization. |
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Hobbyist does not belong above military period.
Maybe "rifle tactics enthusiast" could come before .mil but NOT hobbyist. Some serious shooters are pretty good and know how to shoot, but most do not know how to properly employ their weapon from anything other than a bench. Can your average hobbyist step into a combat patrol and know their role in the fight, give ADDRACs, set up support by fire positions, fire and maneuver, Clear buildings, set up defensive positions with interlocking fields of fire? There is a lot more to gun fighting than putting holes in paper. |