I worked as mall security for the holidays for some extra spending money. I don't know why you think it's funny to bust the security guys balls. The guys were just doing there job, they don't have the right to search, handcuff, detain you and don't get to carry weapons. As a temp I was making $12 an hour, it helped buy some extra presents. Basically they just observe and report.(yell stupid things into there raidios)
So instead of just going back in the store for a minute you had to piss everyones time away, call a cop, piss away his time too for what? All criminals tell the truth? You think all criminals look like scum bags?

Bon Marche security seemed to have a lot better setup going. Besides all there high speed cameras and stuff they were allowed to pursue and detain shoplifters till the police arrived.

Yeah, my biggest fear is not being allowed to shop at wally world.

Once had a receipt checker follow me out the door and asked to check my bag.  I said no and walked to my truck.  He didn't follow.

When I was younger (and less refined), I would look for the little cameras and pick my nose or scratch my butt and then wave.

Eddie

About a month ago my wife ran some piece of shit down and nabbed the thief! She's a manager at W*M. WTG! Kick-ass. Yes, they will detain you. You don't want to mess with this woman, so don't bust me up with an attitude!

Sure they have every right, as long as you don't refuse. Do you think that WalMart can legally make me stay there if, in fact, I haven't stolen anyting? That is called false imprisonment.

The fact is, unless they are 100% sure that you have taken something they are helpless. If they force you against your will and it turns out that you are legal then they are in some deep shit.

In some states (AR) you need only to conceal the merchandise, not attempt to leave the store. The local Dillards hires off duty cops to perform their security and loss prevention. I got into more fights and scuffles there than on the streets for 12 years. What a pain in the ass. We worked plainclothes so I got a chance to see what the security guys have to put up with. It's really not worth it. BTW, after dozens if not hundreds of shoplifting arrests I never lost even 1 in court. If you do the job correctly you don't have to violate a person or their rights. If you are not sure they lifted something, let them go, they will come back, they always do.

So the p[eople who initiate somethign against you get to waste your time (by bringing you inside, under their control and requiring you to submit to their search), but the innocent shopper should not dare to waste their time?

Only answer to that is "Blow me".

I asked the local police officer about what would happen if I walked by the door checker. He said "Hell, They don't even press charges against the shoplifters that they Do catch!"

He also said that they had several hundred thousand dollars in the budget to account for lost inventory.

For a while I carried a copy of the 4th amendment (The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized)

If I was asked for a receipt I was going to give them the copy and walk away with a big grin![:d]

The law in NY allows for the arrest by a "person." In NY if you are a not a peace or police officer as defined by law you are a "person."  Store security personnel are "persons" and have powers of arrest as defined in the NYS CPL.

Thousands of arrests are made and prosecuted for petit larceny in NY by store security personnel.  Each store has it's own policy but it must be in compliance with NYS law and the local requirements of the police agency and local criminal court.

Some stores have a zero tolerance policy and I have seen arrests and prosecutions for the larceny of a 10-cent ballpoint pen.

I am not an attorney, this is not legal advice. The above is for informational purposes only. Contact a competent attorney for legal advice.

The applicable section of the NYS CPL law follows:

[url]http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=25&a=22[/url]

S  140.30  Arrest  without  a  warrant; by any person; when and where authorized.

 1.   Subject  to  the  provisions  of  subdivision two, any person may arrest another person (a) for a felony  when  the  latter  has  in  fact committed  such  felony,  and (b) for any offense when the latter has in fact committed such offense in his presence.

 2.   Such  an  arrest,  if  for  a felony, may be made anywhere in the state.  If the arrest is for an offense other than a felony, it  may  be made only in the county in which such offense was committed.

S  140.35  Arrest  without  a  warrant; by person acting other than as a police officer or a peace officer; when and how made.

 1.   A  person  may  arrest  another person for an offense pursuant to section 140.30 at any hour of any day or night.

 2.   Such  person  must  inform the person whom he is arresting of the reason for such arrest unless he encounters physical resistance,  flight or other factors rendering such procedure impractical.

 3.   In  order  to  effect  such  an  arrest, such person may use such physical force as is justifiable pursuant to subdivision four of section 35.30 of the penal law.

What if Walmart had a sign that said [i]"upon entering our property, you consent to being raped and sodomized by our employees"[/i]


Would that be legal?  Can a business just post up whatever the hell they feel like?

The key though is to look at the wording of the law:


 1.   Subject  to  the  provisions  of  subdivision two, any person may arrest another person (a) for a felony  when  the  latter  has  [b]in  fact[/b] committed  such  felony,  and (b) for any offense when the latter has [b]in fact[/b] committed such offense in his presence.

If a citizen makes an arrest under this provision of law, and turn out to be incorrect (no matter how innocently) he is criminally and civilly liable.

Generally speaking and unless the law specifically protects you, whether you are a LEO or a citizen you are always subject to criminal or civil action.  Who prevails is up to a judge or jury. Common sense usually prevails but not always.

The writer he was responding to set off the alarm because a anti-theft sticker was stuck to his shoe.  The store personel and security aked him to come back in so the could clear the matter up.  Since he did set off the alarm I would say they had a good reason to believe that he had stolen something. If he had simply got back in he would have saved everone some time amd the police could have been doing soemthing else. I consdier it a waste of everyones time.

I do not steal from any one period! and this subject really p##ss me off. as far as I'am concerned I really don't give a rats ass as I will consider if they stop me and try and search me the same as someone coming into my house in the middle of the might, if I don't have a gun on me I will go home and get one and they will make the national news!
I have heard of people being arrested for a 25 cent newspaper that they did not even steal and if the stores can be that chicken shit so can I.

A couple points here:

1. As others have said, the constitution and therefore the 4th amd does NOT apply against private, non-govt actors.

2. The tort of false imprisonment, however, does. You can sue them for this if detained. It does not require bars and cuffs, only that you be [B]unreasonably[/B] confined to a finite area against your will.

3. Private stores have a "shopkeeper's privilege" that allows them to detain those that they [B]"reasonably suspect"[/B] of theft. It is NOT an arrest and those arrest laws you see are not relevant. Here's a quickie example of this:
http://www.westbuslaw.com/cases/reasonable_detention.html

4. Courts tend to extend this privilege to the use of minimally necessary force to detain, as a defense to battery. They treat the false imprisonment and battery as the same tort, and the shopkeeper must then prove that their actions were reasonable. SEE: http://www.aoc.state.nc.us/www/public/coa/opinions/2000/990996-1.htm

So no, Ponyboy, they DON'T have to be 100% sure. And all you yahoos who want to resist or threaten to beat the security guy up and win a fucking medal for it are [B]wrong[/B]. Go talk to a lawyer.

As far as businesses posting policies, they can do almost anything they want. You enter their [B]private property[/B] voluntarily, nobody says you have to. If they say "you must walk in with your thumb up your butt" and you don't want to, then don't enter. Pretty simple.

In NYS the Criminal Procedure Law defines the manner in which a person may be detained and or arrested and the procedure which must be followed after a subject is arrested.

In my jurisdiction the store security personnel affect the arrest, prepare the criminal information and in accordance with the CPL will turn the subject over to my custody for further processing (fingerprinting, criminal history, arraignment etc.) I am not the complainant in this action.  

There are other legal ways to handle petit larceny cases but this is the way my agency usually handles them. Once again this is only applicable in NYS. Other states and other jurisdictions in NYS may handle these complaints differently.

To add to ar15patrol's statement, in VA armed security guards are state certified, have training requirements, and have full arrest powers on their employer's property.

Again, shopkeeper's privilege is not an "arrest", it is a defense to civil suit for false imp. and battery. As far as I know, every state recognizes some form of it. Reasonableness of the employee's actions is what will be judged. If they acted reasonably, then you will not win if you sue them. You will, in fact, LOSE in some cases, because even if you sue on contingency, many states have fee-shifting laws that require you to pay the other side's legal fees if your claim does not prevail. So sue carefully...

ahhhh, finally someone with a realistic plan. You should definately hope they rough you up and toss you around. All sorts of injuries could occur. Just be sure you're innocent and you'll be a jackpot winner!

This has to be the brightest thing I've read all week.

No shit.

I know someone who got 8k bucks out of bum deal like this. Well actually he got 5k and his attorney got 3k. Took two years to settle but talk about a shopping spree at the gun shop...whoopee! I personally think highly of lawyers, everybody should have one on retainer.[:)]

Dave,
you're FOS, & you don't know WTF you're talking about!


When I was 16 (±), I beat the living hell out of a security guy from the Illinois Central Railroad for accusing me of hopping a freight train. I really phucked that guy up!  I couldn't even see the extensive damage I did to his fists because of all the blood.  
Guess I showed him who the boss was [b]that[/b] day![BD]






BTW this was About thirty years ago, when the guy in the caboose would use a 12ga to pop you in the ass with a rock-salt / pepper cocktail (God, those guys were GOOD SHOTS!).
Your parents didn't sue at the time, as a matter of painful fact - you had to walk very straight, lest they find out & make your day even more miserable....[B)]

well if you don't like the answer don't ask the questions.
you rent-a-cops might stop to realize some people just don't care to be falsly accussed of any thing , if I'am minding my own bussiness and someone goes out of their way to get into my bussiness they deserve everything I give them.
you can ask the people that know me and alot of folks here do personally. I'am the most kind ,fair and honest person you would ever want to meet, but having said that the times that people have got in my way or said something anything like that, its like flipping on a light switch and you should be awhere their are folks out there that live by a code more than ok you can do to me what ever you want.

if you think that $5 a hour gives you the right to force your will on innocent people or frame them at your whim then you deserve everything you get because rent-a-cops are one level below the atf and fbi.
you might get to say thats the smartest thing I've heard tonight but guess what I'am not bending over so some wanta be rent-a-cop can get his jolly's off.

yeah back in my youth I worked for a large chain of the drugstores thrifty's and I was thaught that up to 25% or more of the kids that walk into a store are stealing and it was proven to me by the manager just for kicks would stop kids going out and it did surprize me how many actually had something hidden, but we did not stop a adult unless we had proof that they did it.
let me give you a example of what I mean by you getting the wrong person someday:
in my late teens and early 20's I repossed cars for a living and yes it was a thrill, I enjoyed taking dead beats cars and have been run over a few times, shot at, had more guns pulled on me than you would think , bitten by dogs, knifes pulled and came close to being beat with a shovel(I ducked at just the right time but my partner ended up in the hopital) had one friend that was shot to death doing it and the guy got away with it.
but to my reason for quiting was this it was not the bad folks that I feared but the one's that did not care anymore thats who I fear! my last car pickup was a volentary repo and we used to try to steal them anyway because they most of the times were the worse because you had to confront them. so we pulled up one night up in reading ca. and I walked up and was trying to start this car and it did not start right away and the guy comes out with a gun and I really thought he was going to kill me that night, because he told me this and I allready knew it was true before I went up there. he had lost his job a few months before, his wife was dieing of cancer and was in a hospital and was not coming home,oh yeah he had a few more days to get out of the house he was losing and he told me I should quit because as far as he was concerned the only reason he was not going to kill me that night is because he wanted to spend the last few days with his wife. by the way his wife died about a week later and he went home and blew his own brains out.

so if you are right and they did shop lift as far as I'am concerned send them to jail where they belong, but if they did not you just might meet that person one day that does not care anymore and just because you have to get your rent-a-cop jolly's off showing how importent that $5 a hour job is to someone it might cost you.

JUST THINK THE NEXT TIME you do it someone as they might be that one person in a millon because believe me they are out there.

blood and honor

That line is the cherry on top. You should go rent the movie "Falling Down", you'd probably like it.

Just wondering...

the Ladies restrooms at WalMart have signs in each stall, on the back of the door, warning about shoplifting.

Reads something like "It's not a thrill or a joke or a gag...we will prosecute...then lists the typical sentence...that will haunt you the rest of your life."

I was going to copy it for the RR of our store but it is copyrighted [0:)]

[b]15 Things to do at Wal-Mart while your spouse/partner/significant other is taking his/her sweet time:



[red][center]
1. Get 24 boxes of condoms & randomly put them in peoples carts when they aren't looking.

2. Set all the alarm clocks in housewares to go off at 5 minute intervals.

3. Make a trail of tomato juice on the floor to the rest rooms.

4. Walk up to an employee and tell him/her in an official tone, 'Code 3 in housewares,...and see what happens.

5. Go to the Service Desk and ask to put a bag of M&M's on lay away.

6. Move a 'CAUTION - WET FLOOR' sign to a carpeted area.

7. Set up a tent in the camping department and tell other shoppers you'll only invite them in if they bring pillows from the bedding department.

8. When a clerk asks if they can help you, begin to cry and ask 'Why can't you people just leave me alone?

9. Look right into the security camera and use it as a mirror while you pick your nose.

10. While handling guns in the hunting department ask the clerk if he/she knows where the antidepressants are.

11. Dart around the store suspiciously while loudly humming the theme from 'Mission Impossible'.

12. In the auto department practice your Madonna look using different size funnels.

13. Hide in the clothing rack and when people browse through say 'PICK ME! PICK ME!!!!!!'

14. When an announcement comes over the loud speaker assume the fetal position and scream 'NO! NO! It's those voices again'.

15. Go into a fitting room and yell real loudly ... 'Hey! We're out of toilet paper in here!'.
[/red][/center][/b]

Well how about having the security insist on looking in your belt pack or they won’t let you leave the store, so you being ticked off open your belt pack and the security officer being stupid since there are customers nearby  see your 1911 that you are carrying concealed and mentions loud enough that you have a gun which some customer hears and then yells he has a gun and everyone else panics. Oh this is in a state where your weapon must be kept concealed. Gets kind of interesting when the police arrive to a near riot with some merchandise broken on the floor.  Like the police were told by the gun owner it is not my fault the security guard insisted and refused to let me do it in private and then couldn’t control his big mouth.  

By the way I walked into a store with a friend carrying my motorcycle helmet and a guard told us we had to check the helmets so I got ticked off and said that I did not need to go into the store anyway and turned around and left. The guard followed me out side the store so I stopped turned around and told the guard to back off and leave me alone and when he got uppity I told him to go to H*ll.

And what happens if a guard grabs you and you defend yourself. Guards at least in my area do not have any type of police power unless they are Special Police and if I hit one in self defense it is not the same as hitting a cop.  Most of them are on a power trip anyway.  It is getting late so TTFN  your friendly neighborhood Sniper.

My mom got stopped at Wally World once.  No she did not steal anything.  She was upset, and will never set foot in that store again.  

I was leaving Costco one day with my purchase and had my empty motorcycle helmet in my other hand.  As I passed, the old door goon reached into my helmet without asking.  I was furious and just scowled at him.  I left straight away because if I stayed I would have knocked out his teeth.  I am a mellow guy, but I was that angry.  I should have asked for a manager and demanded that the lout be fired.  

I took a vow to never again shop at Costco!!!

I am in the National Guard as an MP. Whenever I get activated or do a two week rotation lately, I have always served as a Garrison MP.  Part of my duties is to search vehicles.  Want to know my criteria for searching vehicles?  I search every fifth, third, second or every car based on the threatcon level, plus any cute woman, or if I see somebody I don't like or gives me or any of my teammates or squadmembers atitude.  But is this discrimintory?  Am I violating the fourth amendment?  No, because I work as a Gate Guard mostly and that is a pre condition to passing thru my post and entering the facility.  I am searching to make sure that someone is not carrying a weapon inside the post.  If one does not want to get searched, one simply does not come on the post.  By what authority do I have to do this?  The Post Commanders authority, I am acting in his name.  I have always felt and understood that it is Walmart's property and if you did not like that, don't go there.  Simple as that.  No one held a gun to your head to shop there.  

True, but in your situation the searches are performed at the entrance - you have a choice whether or not to just turn around or continue on when asked to be searched, correct?  

In most of the situations described above, the requests came on the way out, when all anyone wanted to do was leave...  I'm sure 95% of the stores don't even have any sort of notice about the right to search packages, etc.  Sure, you can avoid the places you know do this, but to suggest not to go anywhere that is not your property or public property is silly.  The fact is, there seems to be an ever increasing assault on our privacy nowadays.   Cameras everywhere on public property, searches on private property, gps transmitters on rental cars (no to mention things like onstar, lojack, etc), the new xray scanners being proposed for airports, the digital angel microchip, etc, etc...

Any satisfaction people gain from avoiding/ignoring the search requests likely is because of some people's (me included) increasing frustration with these kinds of things.  It is the one thing we can sort of snub our nose at - I can't really do anything about that red light camera, but I can just walk past the security guard.

I also hate how sue-happy our society has become, but I always wondered that if this day and age, where you can get a couple mil from being a dumbass and spilling coffee on yourself if it would not be possible to sue (and win) for getting searched after setting off one of those alarms if the employee was negligent by forgetting to remove the sensor from the item.  Call it mental distress, defamation, etc from being falsly accused in from of others and subjected to an embarrassing search, etc.

Rocko

I Think the thing to realize is that each state has their own laws in this matter.  While they may be an afront to what you consider is your personal liberties, you may be infact accepting the implications of the law by entering the stores.  In vermont where I am currently residing a check of lexus-nexus says they have the right to use reasonable force to detain me as well as holding the stove free from civil action in the event they are wrong.  It also happens to impose additional restraints on the store like having to give me the option to be searched in privite and providing me with a phone call.  While, since I am a honest person, I find the law increadably inconvienent.  Although I don't have a choice in the matter.  I suppose I could just never go in a store again.

I am fairly sure most stores don't know what the law is for that matter.  Additionally just putting up an objection can probally prevent them from even stopping you all though they have that right.

Additionally in my state concealing merchandice is included in shoplifting, so putting cans of tuna in my back pocket can make me a criminal before I leave the store.

I think the biggest problem is failure rate of the electronic sesor devices, or more precisely the devices the de magnitize them (or however they work.

Allot of crap has been thrown out in this thread, but not much of it is sound legal advice for your particular area.  I suggest you check your state laws before throwing down with a security guard.

In the spirit of this thread, I have a question about something I saw a few months back outside a grocery store.

It was around midnight.  I had paid, was getting in my car, and looked back.

Someone had come out of the store, was about 10 yards outside the entrance.  Security came out of the door at a run, grabbed him from behind, there was a glass bottle or two that fell and broke (didn't see what was in them), and they started to drag him back into the store by his elbows.  As far as I could tell, security did not identify themselves, they just grabbed him from behind.  They were in uniform, with their fake police badges, etc. but were behind him.

Let's assume two different scenarios:

1.  He is innocent--someone thought they saw him hiding something, but he did not.

2.  He is guilty and did steal something.

In case 1--would he be justified in fighting back the moment someone grabbed him (regardless of the security uniform)?

In Case 2--would he still be justified in fighting back unless they identified themselves?

What they did do was wrong your not to chase anyone out in the parking lot because if they get it by a car guess who's falt it is? Thats right Security!!! You can be charged even thou he stole something.

They should have meet the guy at the door or got his licences number and called it in to the PD and let them handle it. But if I was innocent I would press kidnapping charges agenst the security.

Actually, they didn't so much chase him as he walked out the door (opens parallel to the sides of the building)--he walked (still on the sidewalk) the 10 yards when they ran out and grabbed him.

NONE!...I like to play with them when they try.[:)]

I've caught a couple of Thieves before...sometimes they can be the nicest people.

I worked at an Indoor Range (Shooter's Emporium, Escondido, Ca. from 1987-1990), and we rented guns for use on the firing line. A couple of guys brought in some of their own hardware. The rented a Walther PPK. When the time came, they came in, paid their bill, and were getting ready to leave when I asked which on had the PPK. The looked at one another like they were clueless. Undeterred, I opened Kolpin case #1 and found...you guessed it, one Walther PPK.

They were about to say ssomething when the store owner told them never to come back. I was PRAYING he would have simply called the cops.

I caught a kid and a couple of his friends a few years later who pocketed a plastic coin tube in his pocket while walking down a (mirrored) alley. I shadowed them, all the time busily straightening items and offering to answer questions...I followed him to the door and pointedly asked them if there was anything else I could do and allowed them to walk out into the mall. I told the kid: "Right pocket, Right here."

He said "Oh, I'll pay for that."

Not with cash, I assured him. Two Uniformed Cops cuffed him in front of the world (Friday night in the Mall), and called his parents to deal with the matter.

Smart cops.


 

That's when you just call the PD and let them deal with it. It is not worth it at all.

I'm working at a hospital again and my Cpt(I could tell you about this guy he is the type that makes us pro-gun people look bad.) Is so anal!! He thinks that where working at a top secret military plant not a hospital. I'll tell you get a lot of want be cops in security and a lot of them are power happy and anal.

 

My nephew worked security for Target while he was taking police science courses.  He claimed there were more floor walking security than salespeople[;)]  One day he stopped a guy for shoplifting and when he saw the guy's ID, realized he was a LEO.  He politely asked if he could relieve him of his weapon.  No problem but he was a little nervous about it.

Ok, I read this whole thread and did not find the answer I was looking for.

Here is the deal.  I take all my purchases to the cashier.  I give her my items and I pay what she asks for the merchandise.

By allowing me to leave, and since she is a agent of the store, she has agreed that I am a paying customer and I am now free to leave with my merchandise.

What right does the store have to go back on this agreement by saying "oops, wait... NOW we think you might be a thief, we want to search your basket, check your receipt, and detain you."

After the cashier has said "Thank you, have a nice day!" what continuing right do they have to see what I purchased, check my cart, or search my person?

Since an agent of the store has charged me for all items, and said "Have a nice day" they have acknowledged a contract for the merchandise.  What right do they have to revoke this contract?

I bought it, you told me it was mine, and now you want to tell me it might not be mine?

As for the security tags at Wal-mart, I have been stopped before.  It was fora 30 pack of beer that I paid for, but the cashier failed to 'disable.'  

It was not only annoying, but almost public humiliation to be stopped, with 'the voice' telling me to please step back, etc.

BTW, the Canton Wal-Mart has a 'new' voice track.  Much more apologetic, and makes it sound like it was the store's fault

LMAO!

I gotta say, that is pretty amusing.

Ok I'll try to tell this to you best I can. The cashier has no say in security wise if a person who is in security saw you take something then place it in your jacket and no pay for it and walk try walking out with it.

They can stop you dose not matter if the cashier checked you out or not a lot of people who still do this they will buy one little thing and try stealing a DVD or other things because then it makes them not look as guilty but if you where caught taking the item then placing it in your coat and trying to walk out with it they can stop you.

I have also seen people buy a pack of gum with a $100 bill and they trick the cashier buy saying they did not give them enough. then they go and count the money and when the cashier trues to give the guy 5 singles for his $5 bill the guy will take a $20 and place it in his pocket then say he is $20 short and this can go on for a long time.  

There is a very informative article on this topic at [url]http://www.security-expert.org/shoplift.html[/url]

It's written from the perspective of a merchant rather than a private citizen but does offer some insights.  Doesn't address the issue of the "receipt checkers" at places like Costco, however.

Some factual info (which this thread seems to grossly lack) from a humble law student:
 My Torts and Compensation class just briefed several cases on the tort of False Imprisonment.
On this note, the US Court of Appeals for the First Circuit affirmed a $20K judgement against WalMart in 1999. (McCann v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. 210 F.3d 51).

 Basically, a woman and her kids were stopped, and detained for about an hour by the store's security.  The lady sued and grossed 20K- not a bad sum for one hour's work!   I have the full text (about 2 pages, if anyone wants it).

 It is interesting stuff indeed- I don't even bother to slow down for WalMart receipt checkers (unless I have a large item that is not in a WalMart bag).  They are within your rights to stop you ONLY if the alarm goes off or they have some other 'just cause' -i.e. incriminating security footage (in that case, ASK to see the footage). (of course, check your local laws- this is the case in MOST, not ALL jurisdictions).
 
 Most jurisdictions DO require some "probable cause" for you to be detained-never consent to a search without knowing what their 'probable cause' is.  Personally, I carry a few business cards just for such affairs- tell them to speak to your lawyer about the consequences of violating your rights, and NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER (get the idea) physically resist- unless, of course, you are allergic to large sums of free money.  Hope this helps some of you folks a bit...

I think I understand now.  The merchant (wally world) can use the electronic devices.  This establishes probable cause for the merchant and they can detain me.  However, detaining me over defective sensor, careless cashier, or false readings from the sensor opens them up to a whole plethora of legal issues.

So the receipt checker is a red herring.  She/he could stop me, but the risk to the merchant is high if the person screws it up.  So they place the person their to stop 99% of the populace who wil obey their request to stop so the receipt can be checked.

This shows the criminals that the store is doing SOMETHING to protect itself, and they are discouraged from shoplifiting.

If they stop me, and I refuse, they may use some force.  If I am innocent, they could potentially get sued.

They have the right, you can refuse, they can stop you, and they are within their right to restrain you.

Interesting....

I may be getting impatient and repeating what has been said, (i only read the 1st page of responses). I have a lot of experience in  Loss Prevention for private stores. While soem fo not realize the liability they expose themselves to, several do. At Foleys, there were five steps we had to have prior to stopping an individual suspected of shoplifting.

1. Visual of the suspect entering the area
2. Selection of the merchandise
3. Concealment of the merchandise
4. Constant visual contact with the suspect until exit
5. Exit from the store (all possible points of payment passed

Without any one of those steps involved in making you case, you have none. If an investigator chose to initiate a stop without one of these steps verified, he can kiss his job good-bye, and Foleys will very likely be settling out of court. As far as a citizens arrest, I guess we made those 3-10 times a week, as we were not LE in any way.

Walmart, and most other stores have a similar set of policies, and will severely punish their employees for ignoring them. So while there are idiots in every group of individuals you could sample, realize that as is normally the case, they are the exception.

Anyone who wants more information, feel free to contact me by e-mail, and I will expand as much as I can.

ROTFLMAO

So are you or are you not, recommending that tactic at fry's.
I think when I go to costco, I'm just going to plow trough the guy like waterboy if he trys to stop me.[BD]

Having taken up for one side, I must concede to the other, that there are definitely some power tripped, idiots working security and loss prevention. I have seen these guys in action, and hate them as much as you guys do, if not more. These fools are the reason I get to deal with the "mall ninja" jokes, when that is not my attitude at all.  

The vast majority of my working experience is in the security/L.P. field, and so these guys make my job harder to do. I am honestly just trying to do the job I was hired to do, the right way. I found while working security, even in bars, that you get what you give. A large portion of the time, if you approach an individual in a professional manner and conduct you business in a like manner, you will be treated with the respect you have just earned. When an individual sees fit to escalate the situation, I escalate my response accordingly. I am not there to cause a scene, or make a show, that is bad for business, but rather to deal with the incidents I am presented with in as minimal a manner as is necessary to do my job. So before you make the assumption that all security personnel are power hungry wanna-bes, consider the possibility that you are in the presence of a person trying to do his/her job. If you have done nothing wrong, but did in fact set off the door sensor, rather than pitch a fit, and call more attention (embarassment) on yourself, take a minute to let them do their job and then be on your way. It might save you the hassle of returning to the store to remove the tag that was missed when you were there initially.


I am sure you have never made an honest mistake though.

Not being a thief, I choose nto to have any dealings with the store security folks.  If their buzzers go off, if they think they see something if they are having a bad hair day, I don't care.  I am not going to step inside, I am not going to try to make their lives easier, I will not be molested in any way.

If they forget to take the tag off, I will happily go back and have them remove the tag, shit, I might even bring my receipt with me, if I am feeling in a good mood.