I own three dogs, one of which is a Rottie, so I have to chime in here. It is always how a dog is raised / trained. Just like kids. You abuse them or treat them poorly raising them then they will be that way later on.

I got my Rottie from a friend who rescued her from an abusive owner who almost beat her to death. At the time I first met her she was about 6 months old and had such a fear of men it took almost an hour before she would even approach me. A year and a half later she is still leery of strange men. But, she knows who loves her and that her home with me is a safe place. She never threatens women. Never gets aggressive with me or my other dogs. I have a football field size fenced yard for my dogs. Anyone outside the fence they don't know who tries to get in gets the warning barks. But once they "introduced" to the dogs they safe. My dogs have been trained that way. Even the Rottie. She craves love and attention and is ALWAYS friendly with those who show her affection. It's the differnce between how I trained her and how she treated by a previous owner. She also knows she is not the alpha dog of the three and defers to the one who is. They all defer to me [:)]

My neighbor down the road has a male Rott who runs free. He is HUGE and weighs 150 if he weighs an ounce. Talk about a well trained dog. He has been trained to protect his property. You can walk right up to the property line anywhere around their house, woods, road or field, and he will be there watching you. You can even hold your hand out to him to sniff and you are perfectly safe. But take one step over the line without one of the owners present and he bares his teeth and lets you know you have gone too far. You will be escorted off the property by him, and if you don't leave ... well, then you are at fault IMO not the dog. He is also trained to PLAY with the other local dogs, not fight them. A better behaved and trained dog I couldn't imagine.

Another Rottie someone had done a good job with. Last saturday I was with my son as he scouted some filming locations for the county film commission out in the mountains. We were checking out an area next to a creek and saw some paw prints in the mud next to the bank almost 5" across. We were wondering what they belonged to and as my son was snapping picutres I turned around and there, 2 feet from was the biggest Rot I have ever seen. Bigger than most St Bernards. I stayed still and he slowly came up up to me. Sniffed me ( no doubt smelling my three dogs on my clothes ) up and down. I stayed motionless with my hands in my pockets the whole while. After a couple minutes I slowly removed one hand from my pocket and let him sniff. He decided that I was no threat and proceded to lean against me. For the next five minutes I scratched his head and all was well. No growl, no bare teeth, no menacing looks. Just a well trained, properly socialized dog. He did try to pee on my car before he walked away. But when I told him no in a firm voice he recognized the authority and went on his way.

A breed of dog is no more of a problem than a race of people. Dogs, just like people, are a product of their enviroment and upbringing.

These guys with big dogs have a serious manhood problem. (I can just picture these guys standing in front of a mirror, in their Conan costume, holding their rotties, by their studded collars, speaking in an Arnold accented english

"Let me pump you up!"

And the more of these large dogs they own, the SMALLER their problem is. Ha! ha! ha!

This little girl gettin killed, makes me want to go out and shoot every rotty I see.

Waterdog

You're IQ is showing. Being inflammatory & insulting a persons character or such is a VERY WEAK argument.

I think most folks on this thread genuinely care about the topic on both sides, but you seem to be posting just to try to get folks going. Nice try, grow up.

If you like amusing yourself about other men's "manhood", what does that say about your sexuality? My fiancee was attacked similary by a guy who told her she was "just into horses 'cause she wanted to control something powerful...". Your remark reveals a big book about your private life.
BTW, anyone shooting at my rotti can expect immediate & overwhelming fire from many sources... think about flippant remarks before digging a hole for yourself.

And this coming from a 'responsible gun owner' eh Orignal-Jackass Waterdog? But as it appears, youre  'naturally aggressive' apparently due to excessive inbreeding.
[spank]

Rottimember, in hand to hand with TWO wolf dogs?
Chased one down?? Do you own a Conan costume, or a SUPERMAN costume?

ROFLMAO!!!,  BULLSH*T!

Waterdog

C'mon guys, this thread's gotten to the end of it's leash!

Heel, boyz, heel, I say![:D]

Start making intelligent discussion, or stay on the porch.

Eric The(ResponsibleBeagleOwning)Hun[>]:)]

AND THEREBY REINFORCING THE AGGRESIVE BEHAVIOR!!!  It's amazing that so many people are so stupid.

It ain't rocket science people!  
1.  Be the Alpha
2.  Understand you and socialize your dog!  While your at it, train!  Training IS socialization, incorporate training into playtime.  Your dog WANTS to please you!  If you don't have time, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE A DOG!!!
3.  Pay attention to what your dog is doing!

Very simple, very easy.  And apparently very outside the grasp of a lot of people.
I am glad to see there are lots of people on this board that understand.  My GSD loves you!

Damn right! ALL breeds need proper socialization, handling, and training. It makes me sick to hear people who don't know the TRUTH about some breeds run their mouth... just like the people who are against gun ownership act like they know all of the facts and statistics.


This is the result of "socialization, proper handling and training". [:)]


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Tyler(ResponsibleAmericanPitBullTerrier[u]And[/u]BeagleOwning)Durden [:D]

Tyler, I have a question for you.  I like to think I am pretty attuned to animals in general.  You have seen my posts regarding dogs and the pics of them I am pretty sure.  My dogs are great (just like their owner...;-)).  

I have a best friend that was staying at a guys house for awhile.  They had a pit bull that looked much like yours.  He always came to the door barking and growling.   My friend and the homeowner always told me "just come on in, he's a big sweetie, he won't hurt you"  yadda yadda.  BUT...his body language to me spelled otherwise.  He always held himself to block your way, whichever way you moved, with body tensed up, even after you were invitied in, into the house, yadda yadda.  I would let him sniff me, and pet him, but if you would move wrong he would jump back a half a step, always right in front of you, body tensed, and utter a bark and growl. After awhile (5 minutes or so) he would finally relax, but whenever he came around again, he would repeat the behavior, even after you were in the house, interacting with the owner, and obviously not a threat.  Hell 10 minutes later you could be outside with the guys and he would come around and always had that "one move away from biting your ass" vibe happening.  I tried to play with him, and he was too agressive in playing.  I almost got bit a couple times.
 Every time I found myself thinking that this dog was really a threat, and wishing I had my Kimber on me in case he "lost it", no sh*t.  I quit going over there.

I think he was not socialized properly and was one wrong move away from biting somone.  Probably still is.  I know they didn't really train the dog or anything like that, and I am also pretty sure that dog food wasn't the only thing in his diet.  My friend couldn't take the situation and moved somewhere else so I don't have to go over there any more.  (whew!)  

I don't know Pits well enough, but I know animals.  Were my feelings unjustified?

I agree with you Eric, there's no need for people to degenerate to name-calling.

As for Waterdog's contention to my actions against two husky/wolf hybrids (common where I live): I have at least 3 witness's & nothing to prove to you, I simply shared it as a perspective on how I feel about uncontrolled aggressive animals of any kind. I've walked past that little girl for three years & her dog was never a problem (& always on a leash). When I saw it pinned & about to get it's throat ripped out, I did what I had to, as did the neighbor who ran to my aid with a shovel to bash the Husky/wolf mix's head in.
 
Can you control your fear & do what's neccassary or will you stand by? Everytime you go into a fight you understand that will likely get hit. Accept it & resolve to get up & win.

Well, I hope the trend continues. If a dog/domesticated predator, hurts, maim or kills someone. The owner should be held fully responsible.

A lot of folks who own these large dogs as status symbols, will soon be tradin down to small dogs or birds, to minimize their liabilities.

Waterdog

Bad owner's create this problem.
As posted by others,I agree.
My Rott is part of the family,He is a gentle giant,This is a breed with the intelligence of a five yr. old child.
I would like to think that there are adults with an I.Q. as high. Then we could discuss/exchange ideas on this tragic event-instead of Rott bashing.
Yeah..mine is a low tech security monitor,I have to talk,play,give a treat to him when I get home from work.But My life would somewhat lonely without this dog.

In reply to : TheKill

I think that your feelings were justified. Most APBTs look tense - unless they are sleeping. However, well bred "Pit Bulls" are almost always very quiet dogs - my Debo will only bark or growl if he hears a strange noise at night, or something along those lines. APBTs like to play rough - they usually don't know their own strength. If your friend's dog was attempting to bite you while playing, I would say that the dog has problems... and the owner needs to try to teach him otherwise or put him down (IMO). I guess that could be said for any breed of dog, but especially the "pit bull". I know men who breed APBTs, and as a rule, all dogs that are aggressive towards humans are immediately put down.

Tyler

Definitely! Life would be much lonlier w/o my rotti. & putting her w/ another family would kill her of a broken heart as she is VERY dedicated to me (I raised from 5 weeks as a rescue pet... too young except in an emergency).  My dog is not a status symbol, either- neither are my "assault weapons" or ATV's & such... I possess things that suit my life style, not to impress people wearing carharts & bunny boots 7 months out of the year (yeah, I live in God's country, the FREE state of Alaska!).
I just hope that common sense & common courstey will prevail (as well as cooler heads) in regards to actions (laws) against law-abiding, good citizens in spite of the minority of morons who fuck up an otherwise great country.

this is not why rotts were bred, they were bred as protectors. shepards would tie their money (after a day at the market) to the dogs neck, then they proggressed to sheep herding dogs because they "bump" with a shoulder, not nip and bite like other herding dogs
i have owned four rotts and they have all been just as good natured as any other dog, one of them was by far the best dog i have ever owned he took ownership of the whole family and allowed my daughter to pour dirt on him, paint him and every thing else kids do to dogs. he would not allow any danger to come near us and until the day he died he still thought that he was a lap dog.
this could have easily have happened with a pack of poodles. i know because i have had them too , still do, the toy poodle lives and plays with my 80 pound rott.
i am very passionate about rotts because they have been such good dogs for me
[pissed]
if you want to ban something, ban dipshits such as yourself

At the risk of being told I had a 'Conan' costume on [;)] I did have a close call with a loose German Shepard dog once.

Two friends and I were walking down a country road once at night, and heard the 'jingle' of a chain. Turning to look, there was a German Shepard ~80lbs, coming up behind us fast, dragging its broken chain behind it. As soon as it knew we noticed it was there, it went into a flat out run towards us barking up a storm. My two friends did the worse thing - started running. I turned towards the dog and advanced, screaming stupid stuff like 'C'mon b#tch!" [:)]

Dog, stopped dead in its tracks about 5 feet from me, he barked, I just yelled louder. After about 15 seconds of that, the dog just shut up, turned away and went back from where it came.

Perfect example of the alpha trait - I sincerely believe it knew I wasnt going to back down or listen to it carry on. However I took a chance and could have easily gotten my throat ripped out. But, even though this dog was running free at that point, I do think the proper owner taught this dog at its early stages its 'place' in the pack - be it with strangers or family members. Otherwise, I'd be walking with a limp bout now.

Thems look like angels to me. Beautiful doggies.[0:)]

Thanks Toaster! They wear many faces... lol.

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Tyler

Many years ago, as a very small child we had a German Shepherd named Lucy.  I was too young to remember, but my parents told me the story.  One day I got out of the house and headed towards the street.  Lucy went out and brought me back in.  I have no doubt that she would have gone into a burning building to save me.  She knew the bounds of the yard and would not leave it, and also gaurd it as well.  Dog owners are the problem and not some particular breed.

The people I know that have been bitten, it was always by a little yapping dog or Spaniel.  Fortunately, small dogs cannot do as much damage as big dogs.  That is another reason that certain dogs get a bad rap.  I have seen some kids "play" with dogs, and am suprised that the dog did not bite them.  If some kid was pulling my tail or hitting me, I probably would at least nip them.

One of my neighbors has a huge black lab, but I have little fear of him.  He only barks at strangers, and would not bite unless his owner was seriously threatened.  My friends wife has a couple of little yappers.  I cannot stand them.  They are always trying to nip at you and making a fuss.  It is definitely a reflection of the owner.

You can take my Pit Bull after you take my guns!!!  [:D]  It just ain't gonna happen!

DITTO;It's ALL in how you RAISE them.

What Bunghole said!

Maybe people own such breeds because they can.  I don't own a bayonet and I have bayonet lugs on my AR's because I can.

Do not equate gun with dog....They are two very different things.

Just my 2 cents...
I love dogs but I hate stupid owners.
Back in Virginia we had a neighbor with an Australian cattle dog that was mean as a snake.
One day my wife was visiting and the dog got loose and tore her up pretty good. As I was seeing to my wife's injuries the neighbor remarked about what a good dog he was. I told the neighbor that if the dog ever came at my wife again I would blow it's F---ing head off.
We didn't speak much after that.
We moved to the country 2 years later, the first day there I met the new neighbors babies,
2 Chows and another cattle dog.
The 3 little bastards attacked me while I was mowing and I had dropkick one of the chows to drive them off.
The next morning my new neighbor informed me that one of her baby's was bleeding and wanted to know what I had done. I told her that the next time her babies came to visit they were not coming home.
I guess that conversation along with my wife and I carrying 357 Mags while doing the chores got her attention.
I'm still trying to get my wife to look at a German Shepard...

When owning dogs & guns are compared, the real issue is [b]ownership[/b], not what is being owned. Ownership entails responsibility. Dogs may have their own, independent minds, [b]but[/b] - it is the responsibility of the owner to ensure that the mutt follows the owner lead. In turn, the owner must be responsible to him/herself, the dog, and the society in which he resides.

When it comes to dog mauling cases, the causal factor is [i]usually[/i] the [b]stupidity[/b] of its owner. Kids who tease or scare a dog are another matter. When I was a kid, it was considered just karma if you intentionally pissed off an animal & got your reward.

Let it be perfectly clear that [u]ownership[/u] [u]is[/u] [u]the[/u] [u]central[/u] [u]issue[/u], not the thing which is owned. If you're a stupid owner, then your stupidity will get yourself, and possibly others, into trouble - or worse.

Stupidity is a crime.
[grenade]
There ought to be a law.

100% RIGHT!!! I don't feel like I've been banging my head against a wall with analytical minds like yours out there. Thanks for making me feel like there's hope left in America. [8D]

I have a Rott/shep mix, about 120 lbs. that absolutely loves children. He is also extra gentle around elderly folks. Whenever I take him down to my dad's, he (Bo, the dog) always hits the dirt and turns belly up to my dad. Partly because he knows he's gonna get a rub, and partly because he does that with every frail person he's met. He just senses it. My dad's not really frail, but he IS old and the dog cue's on that. My 8 year old nephew plays for hours with the dog and they are inseperable when they are together. I wouldn't want to be the stranger that approached them when they were outside playing together. The kid would be, uh, safe. Even the neighborhood kids love him. We do a little skeet shooting on weekends and it sometimes turns into a neighborhood affair. The dog has always been fantastic and in fact I wouldn't be suprised if he would protect the neighbors and their kids if circumstances dictated.
HOWEVER, since I am the dog's alpha, I would not ever leave the dog at my dad's and go somewhere else for any length of time (days). He's not very aggressive, but I have seen his reaction when he feels that he or I am threatened. He can become scary as hell! I keep him in a high fenced yard and in the house, and calling him socialized is like calling the Pope religious.
Since I live way out in the country, alone, it's comforting to know he's there guarding the fort when I'm at work, as well as when I'm asleep.
The only real problem I've had is the dog CANNOT STAND anybody in a uniform. I don't know why. I've owned him since he was 8 weeks old and nobody in a uniform ever messed with him to my knowledge.
For a single guy out in the sticks, he's a great companion. But I do know not to completely trust him around strangers or infrequent visitors. He's never done anything to make me worry, just I know what he COULD do if he thought there was a threat.
He's laying asleep on my feet as I type this. By far the best dog I've ever had.  Please don't ban him.

WTF is this crap?

being cited for having dog shit in your own backyard?!?!?

OWNING MORE THAN THREE DOGS?

Me thinks the JBTs are out in force here....