[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Larry Vickers (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/6/2010 7:02:52 PM EDT
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I was reading about his Glock 21 sand test and was wondering what the consensus is here. |
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I know Larry personally and find him to be pretty blunt and to the point......
But here is what DocGKR has to say as it will carry more weight...... Mr. Vickers is widely acknowledged as one of the best pistolsmiths currently working, as well as the only member of the American Pistolsmith's Guild to concurrently serve on active duty in the U.S. military. Mr. Vickers served in numerous SOF assignments, including Combat Development, as well as having worked as a consultant in the firearms industry. Mr. Vickers has had a hand in the genesis of several SOF combat systems. He may have more experience with the technical aspects of pistols used in combat environments than just about anyone else on earth, as the organization he served with shot in excess of one million rounds of .45 ACP per year, as well as significant amounts of 9 mm ammunition. Some individuals may be unaware that Mr. Vickers was a key person responsible for getting Glocks accepted into use by U.S. SOF personnel. Mr. Vickers clearly understands and acknowledges the benefits and limitations of each small arm, including M1911’s, Glocks, HK’s, M9’s, P226’s, etc… All the statements I have seen Mr. Vickers make have been unbiased and based on extensive, hard won experience. In short, regarding this topic you can take what he says to the bank… His public comments regarding Glocks are right on target: "The 9 mm Glocks (G17/19) are the best, the .40 S&W ones (G22/G23) blow-up, and the full size .45 (G21) breaks; the Glock 21 is a dog and always has been. It has the reputation as the worst gun Glock makes”. ETA: Keep in mind this test was done in 2001...... |
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Quoted: Given his extensive background and experience in "Delta" I take great interest in what he says and trust it. Yeah, pretty much this. As far as the test, Glock ain't perfection, never has been. They make a damn fine pistol but they're as prone to failure as any other pistol from a reputable manufacturer. Monday I repaired a 19 that got a little trash in it and the trigger wouldn't reset. This was during an officers qualification. Pistol wasn't filthy, just got a little garbage in just the right spot. Shit happens. |
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Quoted: I have to disagree with the Glock M21 assessment. I owned a few of them and they worked EXACTLY likely every Glock I have ever owned. Before I lost a finger at the last agency I worked for I regularly shot 1000 rounds a month and I NEVER had a failure with one. Other than that I highly respect Larry Vickers opinions as he has real world experience. I know Larry personally and find him to be pretty blunt and to the point...... But here is what DocGKR has to say as it will carry more weight...... Mr. Vickers is widely acknowledged as one of the best pistolsmiths currently working, as well as the only member of the American Pistolsmith's Guild to concurrently serve on active duty in the U.S. military. Mr. Vickers served in numerous SOF assignments, including Combat Development, as well as having worked as a consultant in the firearms industry. Mr. Vickers has had a hand in the genesis of several SOF combat systems. He may have more experience with the technical aspects of pistols used in combat environments than just about anyone else on earth, as the organization he served with shot in excess of one million rounds of .45 ACP per year, as well as significant amounts of 9 mm ammunition. Some individuals may be unaware that Mr. Vickers was a key person responsible for getting Glocks accepted into use by U.S. SOF personnel. Mr. Vickers clearly understands and acknowledges the benefits and limitations of each small arm, including M1911’s, Glocks, HK’s, M9’s, P226’s, etc… All the statements I have seen Mr. Vickers make have been unbiased and based on extensive, hard won experience. In short, regarding this topic you can take what he says to the bank… His public comments regarding Glocks are right on target: "The 9 mm Glocks (G17/19) are the best, the .40 S&W ones (G22/G23) blow-up, and the full size .45 (G21) breaks; the Glock 21 is a dog and always has been. It has the reputation as the worst gun Glock makes”. ETA: Keep in mind this test was done in 2001...... |
| I read about it a long time ago. I don`t remember all the particulars of the test but I do remember him calling the 21 a dog. I don`t have any feeling about it one way or the other, that is what he concluded about the gun. I would like to know what he thinks of BigBore`s 21 test though. |
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Quoted: I know Larry personally and find him to be pretty blunt and to the point...... But here is what DocGKR has to say as it will carry more weight...... Mr. Vickers is widely acknowledged as one of the best pistolsmiths currently working, as well as the only member of the American Pistolsmith's Guild to concurrently serve on active duty in the U.S. military. Mr. Vickers served in numerous SOF assignments, including Combat Development, as well as having worked as a consultant in the firearms industry. Mr. Vickers has had a hand in the genesis of several SOF combat systems. He may have more experience with the technical aspects of pistols used in combat environments than just about anyone else on earth, as the organization he served with shot in excess of one million rounds of .45 ACP per year, as well as significant amounts of 9 mm ammunition. Some individuals may be unaware that Mr. Vickers was a key person responsible for getting Glocks accepted into use by U.S. SOF personnel. Mr. Vickers clearly understands and acknowledges the benefits and limitations of each small arm, including M1911’s, Glocks, HK’s, M9’s, P226’s, etc… All the statements I have seen Mr. Vickers make have been unbiased and based on extensive, hard won experience. In short, regarding this topic you can take what he says to the bank… His public comments regarding Glocks are right on target: "The 9 mm Glocks (G17/19) are the best, the .40 S&W ones (G22/G23) blow-up, and the full size .45 (G21) breaks; the Glock 21 is a dog and always has been. It has the reputation as the worst gun Glock makes”. ETA: Keep in mind this test was done in 2001...... As someone who sold a lot of guns in another life the only thing in his statement on Glocks I cant agree with, he forgot to put the 20 in with the 21. |
–– Years later.
He is pretentious and has a very high opinion of himself. Throw out all of the bullshit––-and yeah, I thank him for his service to our country. But his being a prick––-ensures that I'll never step foot into his classroom/range. I don't take anything he says seriously. 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have to disagree with the Glock M21 assessment. I owned a few of them and they worked EXACTLY likely every Glock I have ever owned. Before I lost a finger at the last agency I worked for I regularly shot 1000 rounds a month and I NEVER had a failure with one. Other than that I highly respect Larry Vickers opinions as he has real world experience.
I know Larry personally and find him to be pretty blunt and to the point...... But here is what DocGKR has to say as it will carry more weight...... Mr. Vickers is widely acknowledged as one of the best pistolsmiths currently working, as well as the only member of the American Pistolsmith's Guild to concurrently serve on active duty in the U.S. military. Mr. Vickers served in numerous SOF assignments, including Combat Development, as well as having worked as a consultant in the firearms industry. Mr. Vickers has had a hand in the genesis of several SOF combat systems. He may have more experience with the technical aspects of pistols used in combat environments than just about anyone else on earth, as the organization he served with shot in excess of one million rounds of .45 ACP per year, as well as significant amounts of 9 mm ammunition. Some individuals may be unaware that Mr. Vickers was a key person responsible for getting Glocks accepted into use by U.S. SOF personnel. Mr. Vickers clearly understands and acknowledges the benefits and limitations of each small arm, including M1911’s, Glocks, HK’s, M9’s, P226’s, etc… All the statements I have seen Mr. Vickers make have been unbiased and based on extensive, hard won experience. In short, regarding this topic you can take what he says to the bank… His public comments regarding Glocks are right on target: "The 9 mm Glocks (G17/19) are the best, the .40 S&W ones (G22/G23) blow-up, and the full size .45 (G21) breaks; the Glock 21 is a dog and always has been. It has the reputation as the worst gun Glock makes”. ETA: Keep in mind this test was done in 2001...... Glock 40cal???? |
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Quoted:
He is pretentious and has a very high opinion of himself. Throw out all of the bullshit––-and yeah, I thank him for his service to our country. But his being a prick––-ensures that I'll never step foot into his classroom/range. I don't take anything he says seriously. The below quote was from the training forum last year....was posted by someone that was in the class it was alledgedly said.......fwiw..... "I am Larry Vickers, if another instructor disagrees with me, look at what they have done, then look at what Larry Vickers has done, and decide who is right."
Third person NOT added by me. Yeah, he's a badass who's done bad things (in a good way), I did learn a lot in the class, it was worth the money, but the next time I have $600 in hand and am looking for training I'll probably branch out. |
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Quoted:
I was reading about his Glock 21 sand test and was wondering what the consensus is here. Who gives a damn what ARFCOM's "consensus" is on him? Here's the bottom line: Mr. Vickers was part of an elite military unit (and by "part" I mean at one point he was the lead small arms training and equipment guy for that unit...read that carefully: In that elite unit, HE was the head training and small arms guy....clue) that famously used 1911 pattern .45 ACP pistols. It is no big secret that for a long time that same unit was looking to replace those 1911 pattern .45 ACP pistols with something that was not as maintenance intensive. It is also no secret that in that quest they tested out a bunch of options that didn't pan out for various reasons. There are, for example, some double-stack .40 caliber "2011" pistols out there that used to belong to that unit. They bought those guns in hopes of replacing the 1911. ...so now considering all of that, what should you make of Mr. Vickers' statements about the Glock 21? What sort of context do you believe his opinions were formed in? We're not talking bubba in his back yard, here. Quoted:
He is pretentious and has a very high opinion of himself. ...and you've spent how much time around him? I've been through several classes with Mr. Vickers and I've found him to be incredibly easy to get along with. Then again, I'm not there to have my ego stroked...I'm there to learn from somebody who knows more than I do. Mindset! It's not just for gunfights.... But his being a prick––-ensures that I'll never step foot into his classroom/range. So that's no firsthand experience. Gotcha. I don't take anything he says seriously. If for some reason I thought he was the most insufferable boor walking the face of planet earth, I would STILL take what he says seriously because objectively he knows his shit. I would STILL show up in his classes because he knows how to teach and he's done wonders for the skill level of me and a lot of other people. The fact that he's actually easy to get along with is icing on the cake. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have to disagree with the Glock M21 assessment. I owned a few of them and they worked EXACTLY likely every Glock I have ever owned. Before I lost a finger at the last agency I worked for I regularly shot 1000 rounds a month and I NEVER had a failure with one. Other than that I highly respect Larry Vickers opinions as he has real world experience.
I know Larry personally and find him to be pretty blunt and to the point...... But here is what DocGKR has to say as it will carry more weight...... Mr. Vickers is widely acknowledged as one of the best pistolsmiths currently working, as well as the only member of the American Pistolsmith's Guild to concurrently serve on active duty in the U.S. military. Mr. Vickers served in numerous SOF assignments, including Combat Development, as well as having worked as a consultant in the firearms industry. Mr. Vickers has had a hand in the genesis of several SOF combat systems. He may have more experience with the technical aspects of pistols used in combat environments than just about anyone else on earth, as the organization he served with shot in excess of one million rounds of .45 ACP per year, as well as significant amounts of 9 mm ammunition. Some individuals may be unaware that Mr. Vickers was a key person responsible for getting Glocks accepted into use by U.S. SOF personnel. Mr. Vickers clearly understands and acknowledges the benefits and limitations of each small arm, including M1911’s, Glocks, HK’s, M9’s, P226’s, etc… All the statements I have seen Mr. Vickers make have been unbiased and based on extensive, hard won experience. In short, regarding this topic you can take what he says to the bank… His public comments regarding Glocks are right on target: "The 9 mm Glocks (G17/19) are the best, the .40 S&W ones (G22/G23) blow-up, and the full size .45 (G21) breaks; the Glock 21 is a dog and always has been. It has the reputation as the worst gun Glock makes”. ETA: Keep in mind this test was done in 2001...... The Glock M21???? It has a military designation now? |
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I've taken two classes with Larry Vickers.
I think a lot of people misunderstand him. Some view him as arrogant. I find him to be a no bullshit down to earth guy. If you don't like to hear the truth then you should probably train with someone else. He's a great instructor and will see where you need to be pushed as far as training. |
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Quoted:
He is pretentious and has a very high opinion of himself. Throw out all of the bullshit––-and yeah, I thank him for his service to our country. But his being a prick––-ensures that I'll never step foot into his classroom/range. I don't take anything he says seriously. 
And after reading that I dont think I could ever take you seriously either. The man could refer to me as cunt face for the duration of the class, Id still want to learn what he knows. |
| Anyone who thinks that LAV is a dumbass, needs to look in the mirror. LAV has done more for his country and fellow shooters than most... I would love to watch someone say that shit to his face... LAV is not only an incredible instructor and shooter, but he is also a hell of a guy. You will be hard pressed to find a single person alive that knows weapons of ANY kind better than Larry. PERIOD. Did I mention that he is also one of the most sought after master 1911 smiths on the planet....? |
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Quoted:
He is pretentious and has a very high opinion of himself. Throw out all of the bullshit––-and yeah, I thank him for his service to our country. But his being a prick––-ensures that I'll never step foot into his classroom/range. I don't take anything he says seriously. You might want to look in the mirror. My guess is you acted like a douche and he decided not to waste his time trying to even address you. I guess he can't shoot either... |
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A few of the class attendees ate breakfast at Cracker Barrel with Larry two of three mornings of the class and he was an absolute regular guy, bullshitting and cracking jokes. I didn't get even a hint of arrogance or holier-than-thou bullshit off him. Nobody kissed his ass because of his background, either. In fact, he had just had a run of embroidered Vickers Tactical hats made, and there was a misspelling on them. We broke his balls about that and he laughed along with us.
Just a bunch of shooting enthusiasts sitting around eating ham and eggs, telling stories and enjoying ourselves. His manner didn't really change much once we got to the range, except that his priority then was delivering the instruction we had all paid and driven there to get. He delivered every dime and mile's worth. |
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I like Vickers. I have put thoudands of rounds through a G21 in all types of conmditions, even under water and it never stuttered. Do you have any pictures, or video, of shooting your Glock under water? Maybe I'll bring a kiddie pool to the range with me and give it a shot myself. 
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I don't know Vickers outside his articles/TV shows he seems OK but Im not sure why anyone is complaining the gun business is rife with insufferable pricks at all levels and positions Its almost to be expected if Mr Vickers is one ( which I do not know either way) at least he has a resume to back it up |
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Quoted:
He is pretentious and has a very high opinion of himself. Throw out all of the bullshit––-and yeah, I thank him for his service to our country. But his being a prick––-ensures that I'll never step foot into his classroom/range. I don't take anything he says seriously. Someones stuff is sandy, and her feelings are hurt. 
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A few of the class attendees ate breakfast at Cracker Barrel with Larry two of three mornings of the class and he was an absolute regular guy, bullshitting and cracking jokes. I didn't get even a hint of arrogance or holier-than-thou bullshit off him. Nobody kissed his ass because of his background, either. In fact, he had just had a run of embroidered Vickers Tactical hats made, and there was a misspelling on them. We broke his balls about that and he laughed along with us. Just a bunch of shooting enthusiasts sitting around eating ham and eggs, telling stories and enjoying ourselves. His manner didn't really change much once we got to the range, except that his priority then was delivering the instruction we had all paid and driven there to get. He delivered every dime and mile's worth. Exactly what I expect out of an instructor, especially one with his Special Operations background as those men tend to be blunt and to the point when they are serious. A mindset you see in the military, it shouldn't phase anyone who has served especially the Army or Marine Corps. I would take a class with Larry in a heartbeat if I was physically able to. My Dad has a saying when your in company of men who are masters of their craft, "Shut up and Listen, you might learn something that saves you a lot of time and effort or your life", I followed my Dad's advice and it has been very helpful over the years. |
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He's certainly in a position to be arrogant as he has an excellent background and reputation as a trainer and gunsmith, although I tend to doubt that it is as bad as some would have you believe.
Odd that you never see similar complaints about guys like Gabe Suarez and James Yeager who publicly post stuff that is incredibly arrogant without having nearly as much going to back it up. |
| I have only read his work and seen him on tv; but, he seems to know his stuff. What I like the most about him is that he doesn't suggest or pretend that only operators need weapons and training. There is no get out of my tree fort from him. I have a range buddy that took a class from him and he had nothing but positive things to say. I think that if you show up to any class and will not table your beliefs or opinions professionals will treat you like the fool you appear to be. |
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Took one of his courses and never got the arrogance part. Seemed like a guy that knew exactly what he was talking about and wanted to help and train others. You paid your bucks and time to get there. He wanted you to get your moneys worth. He delivered. In spades.
ETA: Never heard about a sand test. |
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Quoted:
He's certainly in a position to be arrogant as he has an excellent background and reputation as a trainer and gunsmith, although I tend to doubt that it is as bad as some would have you believe. Odd that you never see similar complaints about guys like Gabe Suarez and James Yeager who publicly post stuff that is incredibly arrogant without having nearly as much going to back it up. Where have you been? Yeager is regularly dogpiled. |
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Quoted: ...he seems to know his stuff... No "seems" about it. He knows guns, gunfighting and shooting inside & out. He will whip you in a minute, verbally, if you fuck up. While in the middle of a lowlight drill recently, I slipped and activated my white light. He stopped us right there and asked me, "Why don't you fucking send flowers next time? Can you not turn on your light and maybe move fucking faster? It's taking you a fucking year to get to the threat, and then you turn on your light? Hey look at me, we're right here..." Sincerely, Dewey Cox |
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He's certainly in a position to be arrogant as he has an excellent background and reputation as a trainer and gunsmith, although I tend to doubt that it is as bad as some would have you believe. Odd that you never see similar complaints about guys like Gabe Suarez and James Yeager who publicly post stuff that is incredibly arrogant without having nearly as much going to back it up. Where have you been? Yeager is regularly dogpiled. Not for that. Yeager gets dogpiled for his performance in the Route Irish firefight or his teaching techniques but I don't think I've ever seen anyone say anything about his statements on how Camden, TN is "the center of the tactical universe" because he's there or any of the other stuff he says. |