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Posted: 3/20/2002 9:06:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 9:22:58 AM EDT
Very interesting to say the least... Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 9:28:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: Just heard on the radio that a US military GPS unit bearing MSG Gordon's name was found in a cave being swept by our troops in Afaganistan.... anyone heard anymore about this? If true, that will certainly help tie Bin Ladens bunch to the events in Somalia!
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I heard the press release by Ari Fleicher (sp?). He said they are looking into 2 possibilities: 1. Connection between UBL and Somalia. 2. GPS was obtained by Taliban/Al Queda through the black market.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 9:34:57 AM EDT
I just heard this on Paul Harvey's noontime news. Seems somewhere I heard/read that there were suspisions that Al Quida had sent people to Somalia to show how to shoot down helos with RPG's. hmmmm...I'm thinking it was Geraldo when he was in smallyland.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 11:58:51 AM EDT
Gordon was one of the Delta guys who volunteered for the suicide mission to save Durant et al on the downed Blackhawk, was he not??? (Geez, I'm almost tearing up [>(] just typing this) This is too surreal, man. I mean, I've always been moved by the WW2 guys who gave all, but I feel like I KNOW these people. MY generation. "Greater love has no man, than this - to lay down his life for his friends...." - The Bible Thanks for cutting military budgets, and stretching them thinner than Saran Wrap you Washington @$$#O|3$. May you get yours. And may MSG Gordon (and others) be the one(s) to administer it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:04:08 PM EDT
Who has got a link!
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:04:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:06:42 PM EDT
Here's his MOH citation: MSG Gary L. Gordon, U.S. Army Rank and organization: Master Sergeant, U.S. Army. Place and date: 3 October 1993, Mogadishu, Somalia. Entered service at: ----- Born: Lincoln, Maine. Citation: Master Sergeant Gordon, United States Army, distinguished himself by actions above and beyond the call of duty on 3 October 1993, while serving as Sniper Team Leader, United States Army Special Operations Command with Task Force Ranger in Mogadishu, Somalia. Master Sergeant Gordon's sniper team provided precision fires from the lead helicopter during an assault and at two helicopter crash sites, while subjected to intense automatic weapons and rocket propelled grenade fires. When Master SergeantGordon learned that ground forces were not immediately available to secure the second crash site, he and another sniper unhesitatingly volunteered to be inserted to protect the four critically wounded personnel, despite being well aware of the growing number of enemy personnel closing in on the site. After his third request to be inserted, Master Sergeant Gordon received permission to perform his volunteer mission. When debris and enemy ground fires at the site caused them toabort the first attempt, Master Sergeant Gordon was inserted one hundred meters south of the crash site. Equipped with only his sniper rifle and a pistol, Master Sergeant Gordon and his fellow sniper, while under intense small arms fire from the enemy, fought their way through a dense maze of shanties and shacks to reach the critically injured crew members. Master Sergeant Gordon immediately pulled the pilot and the other crew members from the aircraft, establishing a perimeter which placed him and his fellow sniper in the most vulnerable position. Master Sergeant Gordon used his long range rifle and side arm to kill an undetermined number of attackers until he depleted his ammunition. Master Sergeant Gordon then went back to the wreckage, recoveringsome of the crew's weapons and ammunition. Despite the fact that he was critically low on ammunition, he provided some of it to the dazed pilot and then radioed for help. Master Sergeant Gordon continued to travel the perimeter, protecting the downed crew. After his team member was fatally wounded and his own rifle ammunition exhausted, Master Sergeant Gordon returned to the wreckage, recovering a rifle with the last five rounds of ammunition and gave it to the pilot with the words, "good luck." Then, armed only with his pistol, Master Sergeant Gordon continued to fight until he was fatally wounded. His actions saved the pilot's life. Master Sergeant Gordon's extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty were in keeping with the highest standards of military service and reflect great credit upon, his unit and the United States Army.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:09:05 PM EDT
According to Fox News Channel as of 3:00pm CST the manufacturer of the GPS had determined that the unit was not sold until 1998, therefore it could not have been Gordon's GPS unit. Aggie1
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:11:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:35:59 PM EDT
FINALLY saw it on the Fox News screen bottom ticker. But where is the press relase by Flischer?
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 12:51:53 PM EDT
Heard the report over the noon hour, but its not passing the smell test. Why would Al=Qaeda use some ten year old beat up GPS when they can order all the new units they could use from Cheaper-than-Dirt, Sportsmans Guide, etal? And no, I'm not accusing the above of supplying the bad guys. My bet is this one turns out bogus.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:00:24 PM EDT
Possible Al Qaeda-Somalia Link in Afghan Cave Wed Mar 20, 4:21 PM ET By Charles Aldinger WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a possible long-range link to al Qaeda, U.S. troops searching an icy Afghan cave this week found a global positioning receiver taken from a decorated U.S. soldier killed in Somalia in 1993, the Pentagon (news - web sites) said on Wednesday. The name of Master Sgt. Gary Gordon, one of 18 U.S. Army special forces troops killed in a firefight with militiamen in Mogadishu nine years ago, was found on both the satellite receiver and a pouch that it was in, defense officials told reporters. Pentagon officials have long suspected the deaths of Americans in Somalia, detailed in the recent movie "Black Hawk Down," were planned by supporters of fugitive al Qaeda guerrilla leader Osama bin Laden (news - web sites). Gordon, of Lincoln, Maine, was one of two U.S. soldiers posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor -- the nation's highest military award -- after the Mogadishu action. He was 33 when he died. Air Force Brig. Gen. John Rosa told reporters at a Pentagon briefing the name "G. Gordon" was on the hand-held global positioning device, which allows the person holding it to determine his exact position within yards (meters). The device was found in a cave high in Afghanistan (news - web sites)'s eastern mountains near Gardez, where U.S.-led forces this month attacked what were believed to be hundreds of regrouping al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in the five-month-old Afghan war. "That's a good question -- one we've been doing some thought about," Rosa replied when asked if the device could establish a link between al Qaeda in Somalia and in Afghanistan. "We've said all along that we suspected al Qaeda of being a worldwide network," he said. "In fact, this piece we currently think originated from Somalia will obviously tie -- could obviously tie -- al Qaeda to Somalia." SOLD ON BLACK MARKET? But he also said that the device could have been stolen in Somalia, sold on the black market and then somehow ended up in Afghanistan, where thousands of anti-Western al Qaeda fighters were trained in guerrilla camps. "This looks like a definite link to al Qaeda in Somalia, although I doubt it would prove that they are still operating there," another senior defense official, who asked not to be identified, told Reuters. The United States has accused bin Laden of masterminding Sept. 11 attacks on America, and some Pentagon officials have voiced concern that al Qaeda fighters might have fled the current fighting in Afghanistan for lawless parts of Somalia on the northeast horn of Africa. Rosa, a senior operations officer on the U.S. military's Joint Staff, said the receiver was a "civilianized" version of such devices that are now commonly carried by U.S. troops. On Oct. 3, 1993, when Gordon was killed, the military did not have many such devices. But those used at the time by hunters and boaters to determine their positions were often bought by American troops. "Back in '93, the units were a little bit bigger and more cumbersome," the general said. "And I remember a lot of our special forces folks would buy the off-the-shelf ones, the small ones."
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:01:13 PM EDT
He said he thought the device found in Afghanistan was turned on but did not know if it was working. "It would help in command-and-control," Rosa said. "It gives your exact elevation and location. So for command and control, it would be able to help them." Rosa and Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said Gordon's family had been notified that the device was found. Gordon and Army Sgt. 1st Class Randall Shughart, 35, of Lincoln, Nebraska, were posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for bravery in connection with the Mogadishu action, one of the worst military incidents involving U.S. troops since the Vietnam War.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:13:41 PM EDT
Fox News Pentagon correspondant was just on, and like Aggie3 said, he is now claiming that it was not Gordons, it was too new. But they are still running the older report on their screen ticker.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:21:14 PM EDT
Something i put to together a while ago.... [img]http://www.bhd93.com/community/gallery/albums/somaliapictures/aez.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:27:44 PM EDT
Just had a chill run up my spine. If it wasn't MSG Gordon's then why was his name etched on it?
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:29:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2002 1:34:33 PM EDT by Energizer]
Originally Posted By Ameshawki: Heard the report over the noon hour, but its not passing the smell test. Why would Al=Qaeda use some ten year old beat up GPS when they can order all the new units they could use from Cheaper-than-Dirt, Sportsmans Guide, etal? And no, I'm not accusing the above of supplying the bad guys. My bet is this one turns out bogus.
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"And I remember a lot of our special forces folks would buy the off-the-shelf ones, the small ones."
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I don't believe this one bit. Civilian GPS units are not the same as military GPS units. I think they can be disabled in times of war.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:47:11 PM EDT
“And I remember a lot of our special forces folks would buy the off-the-shelf ones, the small ones." I agree. Hell, during the gulf war there was a shortage of them in marine stores since so many we being snapped up and sent to soldiers in the gulf. The military can’t do anything to the receiver itself, but anytime they need to they can degrade the signal so that civilian receivers become less accurate. Mike
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:48:55 PM EDT
The news said one hour ago that it is not Gordon's... The mfg says the GPS device was built and delivered in '98 to Ft.Campbel, KY. It does have G.Gordon on it though...
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 2:16:29 PM EDT
The military cant do anything to the receiver itself, but anytime they need to they can degrade the signal so that civilian receivers become less accurate.
I remember hearing on several occasions that during the gulf war that GPS signals were rendered error free due to the large amounts of civilian GPS devices that were being carried by coalition troops.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 4:04:34 PM EDT
Reading that Medal Of Honor sure brings a tear to your eyes! Just looking at the DA photos of those guys, knowing what they did that day in Somalia, I get a lump in my throat..........
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:36:12 PM EDT
Hard to recognize the guys from the photos. In the book is a picture of the two and if I remember correctly Randy Shughart has a big bushy mustache. Thanks for the photos. It's good to remember from time to time the good ones.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:43:34 PM EDT
Re-check your news reports. GPS belonged to a different Gordon. W
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:52:53 PM EDT
I am not sure after Sept but before that the degradation, or selective availability (SA), was turned off for at least a year. The signal isn't degraded, errors are introduce to create inaccurate readings. Typically, the error is within 300 m but DOD can create any error they want. Real-time commercial correction data, transmitted via satellites, is available for for commercial GPS units to correct for SA. With correction data even with SA "on" you can determine your position within 1 m. Because of the position of the satellites in the system the elevation data is one order of magnitude worse that the x and y data.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 10:03:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2002 10:04:40 PM EDT by Rainier]
I heard some time ago that the military was going to quit degrading the signals, since civilian units now can read through the jamming. If civilian units can get the same reception as the military ones, why bother? The european union has also been talking about putting up their own GPS sats so as not to rely on americans. My POS gps has a bad road map, but no coordinates. Sorry if I confused you, but technical stuff is hard for me to explain.
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