Posted: 3/26/2010 10:38:04 AM EDT
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I just can't believe how long it takes to get work done by gunsmiths. I have used ADCO from this site and MURRAY'S from another, who have a reputation for quality. I had to wait over 2 months from each of them, to not even get any work done. It was a hassle to even get my stuff back unfinished. I am just blown away with that kind of customer service. What can he be doing all day everyday for 2 months? I called in advance and asked how long the turn around would be. Can you take my work in and get it out. I made sure that these projects would not take several months. I am so pissed that 2 different people just make promises and don't follow through. Then they get pissed at me for putting a rush on them. I am only asking for what you told me. If you told me it would take 2 months I would never have sent you the barrels in the first place. UGGG!
I am in auto repair. A customer service business. If I did this kind of stuff to my customers I would not be in business. You just don't take in work if you cant get it done on schedule. I want good quality work, competitive prices all done when promised. I don't think that makes me an A-hole or hard to deal with. Is there anybody that can meet all of these requirements? I would like to use them. Thanks Jay Smith |
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I just can't believe how long it takes to get work done by gunsmiths. I have used ADCO from this site and MURRAY'S from another, who have a reputation for quality. I had to wait over 2 months from each of them, to not even get any work done. It was a hassle to even get my stuff back unfinished. I am just blown away with that kind of customer service. What can he be doing all day everyday for 2 months? I called in advance and asked how long the turn around would be. Can you take my work in and get it out. I made sure that these projects would not take several months. I am so pissed that 2 different people just make promises and don't follow through. Then they get pissed at me for putting a rush on them. I am only asking for what you told me. If you told me it would take 2 months I would never have sent you the barrels in the first place. UGGG! I am in auto repair. A customer service business. If I did this kind of stuff to my customers I would not be in business. You just don't take in work if you cant get it done on schedule. I want good quality work, competitive prices all done when promised. I don't think that makes me an A-hole or hard to deal with. Is there anybody that can meet all of these requirements? I would like to use them. Thanks Jay Smith Probably taking care of the orders submitted before yours. |
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This rant sucks. Wont even rate it since there wasn't even one "fuck" written.
They probably have too many jobs to do. I had some work done by a local smith that took 2 mos but it was quality. That and i cd bug him in person. Would be nice if they cd tell u when they would get to it and you drop/mail then. |
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Just because threading might take a week or less in turnaround does not mean other jobs will, especially when there is a higher demand/finite number of machines devoted to a specific job. So what exactly were you having done? Did it require refinishing? ADCO is quickly becoming overwhelmed simply because they do such great work and upgrading machines and hiring more people may just not be feasible or a poor business move should demand drop off. I don't know anything about Murray's so I can't say anything about them. |
| What I don't understand is why gunsmiths don't reserve a day every week or every two weeks to do quick items and get them out the door. Stuff like installing night sights or minor trigger work or even threading a barrel. If the actual time to do the work is less than one hour, set your custom rifle build down every week and get some stuff out the door. |
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Quoted: I just can't believe how long it takes to get work done by gunsmiths. I have used ADCO from this site and MURRAY'S from another, who have a reputation for quality. I had to wait over 2 months from each of them, to not even get any work done. It was a hassle to even get my stuff back unfinished. I am just blown away with that kind of customer service. What can he be doing all day everyday for 2 months? I called in advance and asked how long the turn around would be. Can you take my work in and get it out. I made sure that these projects would not take several months. I am so pissed that 2 different people just make promises and don't follow through. Then they get pissed at me for putting a rush on them. I am only asking for what you told me. If you told me it would take 2 months I would never have sent you the barrels in the first place. UGGG! I am in auto repair. A customer service business. If I did this kind of stuff to my customers I would not be in business. You just don't take in work if you cant get it done on schedule. I want good quality work, competitive prices all done when promised. I don't think that makes me an A-hole or hard to deal with. Is there anybody that can meet all of these requirements? I would like to use them. Thanks Jay Smith this right here ladies and gentlemen, is the roots of capitalism and entrepreneurship. start up your own shop, offer competitive prices, advertise yourself, do good work, and stand by your product. and most of all, make money. thank you! thank you! i'll be giving advice all day.  |
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Meh, gunsmiths are skilled workers. Most of them seem to have a ton of work right now and a considerable backlog. A lot of them have stopped taking on new work until they catch up. I was quoted 6 weeks for the work my smith is doing, and I'll be happy if I have it back after 2 months.
If you were quoted 2 months and it took 6, then be pissed. If you didn't get a quote that's your fault. |
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If you think they are taking too long then they probably don't realize how important you are...perhaps you should let them know. I agree... I will keep doing all of my own work so that I do not get in line in front of you... being you are so important and all. |
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What I don't understand is why gunsmiths don't reserve a day every week or every two weeks to do quick items and get them out the door. Stuff like installing night sights or minor trigger work or even threading a barrel. If the actual time to do the work is less than one hour, set your custom rifle build down every week and get some stuff out the door. What I don't understand is why people are too lazy or dumb to be able to drift their own sights in, stake a front sight at the kitchen table or do their own trigger work even. If you can't do it your damn self... don't bitch about the smiths. |
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http://cdn3.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/g/g4003g.jpg + http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/Newsletters/Feb2009/Machinery%27s%20Handbook.jpg = YOU CAN DO IT MAN!!! Now their heads are gonna explode. |
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Ok , I will give you an inside view on why it takes so long to get anything back from most competent gunsmiths. I had a gunsmith business for almost 6 years, we closed about a year ago by my choice. I still have several calls a month from folks asking me to start the shop up again. It’s very humbling, read below and you will see why I likely will not reopen unless I decide to go full time and buy a facility separate from my residence.
My business was part time as I had a very demanding full time day job, it was not unusual for me to average an 80 hour week or more. Some days I would get up at 5am to do my day job and not finish my day until 11 or 12 at night. I really enjoyed doing it and working with my customers but I just got burned out. My business model was about 80% refinishing and coating and 20% rebuild and repair. Even though refinishing is much more labor intensive, that 20% doing repair took up at least 50% to 60% of my time. Frankly folks, there is just too much risk and bullshit vs. the reward and profit level for most people to continue doing it anymore. There are a lot easier ways to make money without the stress, time away from family and daily headaches worrying if you filled out some paperwork wrong and is there a swat team on the way to visit you because of that .The liability issues for gunsmiths is really starting to get out of control and dealing with the BATFE and State/ local Gov is a huge pain in the ass and is getting worse by the year. Unfortunately, I see the days of part time gunsmiths that operate out of facilities attached or detached from their primary residence coming to an end very soon. Between aggressive zoning issues, Federal, State and local EPA crap and the inability, even with a LLC to legally separate your personal assets form the business it‘s a race to the bottom at this point. Hell, even mortgage companies are starting to put clauses in your contract that will make it near impossible to run any business like a FFL out of your residence. 
To answer your question about the time to get jobs back well, that’s simple. Most shops run on a very low profit margin, they simply can’t afford to hire help. Chances are, even if they wanted to hire someone they could not find a employee they could trust to do a good job or was component to work on guns without screwing them up, if they are very good most likely they would start their own shop. Most shops are a one or two man operation, that’s one reason why it take so long to get you gun back, there are only so many hours in a day. Another major reason is the availability of spare parts. There is only 2 or 3 independent companies that supply or stock spare parts for older guns. If you have something unusual and very old that needs a part you can’t make, it might take a year or more to find a replacement. Some parts companies wait until they get enough orders of a certain part before they have it manufactured, that might take a year or more. Many firearm manufactures will not sell you some replacement parts even as a licensed FFL, Ruger is a good example of that. At one time I had 10 or 15 guns that were in my shop waiting on a part going on 9 months to a year. In this just in time instant satisfaction society most folks don’t understand this situation. I could go on and on but I think you get the point, I hope I don‘t sound too jaded. Most folks don’t have a clue how much BS is involved trying to make a gunsmith shop work and pulling in a profit enough to live on. If you follow this path make sure you have a passion for the business and a unbelievable work ethic, attention to detail and quality or you will just be spinning you wheels and wasting you and you’re customers time. If you want to pursue this as a career I say go for it, the industry needs new young blood or we are going to be in very big trouble in the near future, gunsmithing is starting to become a dying art. I’m 36 and I was one of the youngest guys doing this kind of work that I knew. Most of the people I would talk to in this field (outside the AR world) were in their 50’s to 70’s. I hope my rant help you understand the current situation in the business. 
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Quoted: what I hate is being quoted a month or two, then not recieving anything 6 months later. Yup, gunsmiths are particularly bad about this very thing. Craftsman, most of them, but slow and uncaring about keeping their word on a reasonable time frame for work completed. |
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What I don't understand is why people are too lazy or dumb to be able to drift their own sights in, stake a front sight at the kitchen table or do their own trigger work even. If you can't do it your damn self... don't bitch about the smiths. It's because some realise that their talents may lie elsewhere & when given a timeframe, prefer to pay a professional to do the work for them. Others who buy parts & think they can "build" guns, those are the WECSOG jobs that are so often posted here. |
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I just can't believe how long it takes to get work done by gunsmiths. I have used ADCO from this site and MURRAY'S from another, who have a reputation for quality. I had to wait over 2 months from each of them, to not even get any work done. It was a hassle to even get my stuff back unfinished. I am just blown away with that kind of customer service. What can he be doing all day everyday for 2 months? I called in advance and asked how long the turn around would be. Can you take my work in and get it out. I made sure that these projects would not take several months. I am so pissed that 2 different people just make promises and don't follow through. Then they get pissed at me for putting a rush on them. I am only asking for what you told me. If you told me it would take 2 months I would never have sent you the barrels in the first place. UGGG! I am in auto repair. A customer service business. If I did this kind of stuff to my customers I would not be in business. You just don't take in work if you cant get it done on schedule. I want good quality work, competitive prices all done when promised. I don't think that makes me an A-hole or hard to deal with. Is there anybody that can meet all of these requirements? I would like to use them. Thanks Jay Smith As a gunsmith and an SOT, I'll say this.... 1. Waiting for parts. It's a fact of life and something none of us like but we have to deal with it. 2. Um, stand in line. First come first serve. We'll get to it as soon as we can but we're not bumping you up and over other people who have waited longer. 3. Don't rush a gunsmith. You can have it two ways, done right, or done fast. You pick. 4. Don't call every day. Nothing makes work slower than a dozen people calling every day taking up time to fix guns forcing a gunsmith to answer un-needed calls. I know several gunsmiths that will drop a project, pack it up at whatever point it's at and send it back to the owner if the owner pisses off the smith and tell the owner to never contact them again. Some of us are more patient than others but we all have our limits. Be understanding and patient. That's all we can ask. |
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http://cdn3.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/g/g4003g.jpg + http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/Newsletters/Feb2009/Machinery%27s%20Handbook.jpg = YOU CAN DO IT MAN!!! Now their heads are gonna explode. Sharp 1340 That's a REALLY nice piece of equipment. Especially with a DRO on it. |
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Lots of good stuff in here by the guys that have done it. They speak the truth. When you are an 07/02 you'll spend a good bit of your time just tidying the books, doing paperwork, answering the same questions over and over on the phone (how do I get a silencer, I didn't know you could own one, how do I do a trust, etc. etc. etc.) Meanwhile, your lathe isn't spinning, your TIG machine isn't TIGGING, etc.
It is very rewarding work when you pull of a nice rebuild of something that was "lost" to a Dremel tool or maybe blown up by a squib load, etc. And then you get one or two yahoos that get their work back and then accuse you of taking their factory parts off and then replacing them with inferior parts you found laying around your shop, etc. It's that kind of BS that makes you want to close up shop and just build stuff for your own enjoyment. Just like any other line of work, you run into difficult people. The vast majority of folks a.) don't mind waiting for their stuff b.) want it done right and realize it takes time to do that c.) actually wouldn't mind helping you out if needed (like bringing me only an AR barrel instead of the whole upper) etc. etc. |
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Lots of good stuff in here by the guys that have done it. They speak the truth. When you are an 07/02 you'll spend a good bit of your time just tidying the books, doing paperwork, answering the same questions over and over on the phone (how do I get a silencer, I didn't know you could own one, how do I do a trust, etc. etc. etc.) Meanwhile, your lathe isn't spinning, your TIG machine isn't TIGGING, etc. It is very rewarding work when you pull of a nice rebuild of something that was "lost" to a Dremel tool or maybe blown up by a squib load, etc. And then you get one or two yahoos that get their work back and then accuse you of taking their factory parts off and then replacing them with inferior parts you found laying around your shop, etc. It's that kind of BS that makes you want to close up shop and just build stuff for your own enjoyment. Just like any other line of work, you run into difficult people. The vast majority of folks a.) don't mind waiting for their stuff b.) want it done right and realize it takes time to do that c.) actually wouldn't mind helping you out if needed (like bringing me only an AR barrel instead of the whole upper) etc. etc. +1 Yep, this is 100% true what you posted.
I would say 98% of my customers were great and I would give them the shirt off my back if I had to, 1%were a massive pain in the ass you could never satisfy and 1% were really dangerous. I had one guy call drunk as hell and left a message threatening to break into my shop to get his gun, never mind this same guy called damn near every week driving me nuts, what part of 6 months plus don’t people understand? A huge hazard in the business is the general publics unbelievably irresponsible handling of firearms. I have had more loaded guns pointed at me by my customers then a seasoned combat vet. I had one guy damn near kill me a few years ago, he handed me a Kimber 1911 muzzle first pointing right at my chest with the safety off and hammer back, I pulled back the slide preparing to disassemble it, to my shock a 230gr Federal HydroShock round ejected out, I was just damn lucky he did not pull or hit the trigger. Of course you will always here the famous words, “I didn’t think it was loaded“. I’m not a violent man, but it took everything in my being not to beat the hell out of that guy. I have at least a dozen similar stories about people waving around loaded firearms in the shop, it‘s frighting seeing the average persons total lack of muzzle discipline. About 50% of my customers were Fudd’s, I say this lovingly, most of these guys are just die hard hunters and outdoorsmen, salt of the earth people. Firearms are just a tool for their passion of hunting or trapping. They are not into shooting to shoot, nor do they care much about AR-15’s or handguns for the most part. I only met a few that were anti-gun. I think I was able to change some of their views by pointing out their scoped hunting rifle was the next to get banned and classified as a possible sniper rifle, most could see the light after that reference. Fudd’s were the most likely to accidentally kill you in the shop. These were the guys that more often then not would bring you loaded firearms or had the worst muzzle discipline, it seemed like the older ones were the worst. For the most part, it seemed like the majority of people under 40 had better firearm safety practices then the old timers. I can’t tell you how many time I had people show up stinking drunk trying to drop off or pick up their guns for work. It got so bad that I had to make a large sign saying “if you come in intoxicated I can not do business with you until you are sober“, that’s pretty sad but it’s the honest to God’s truth. Until I opened this business I had no idea how many people are functioning alcoholics and have serious drinking problems. Another factor people don’t realize is how much time we spend just trying to make sure paperwork is correct and up to speed. Every business has paperwork, regulations and tax info they have to deal with on a daily basis, running any kind of firearm business is like doubling or tripling that amount of administrative BS. It‘s shocking how much time this takes up and all it does is cost you time, frustration and money, it’s part of overhead you never really recover. To be a really successful independent gunsmith today you have to be a jack of all trades and be pretty damn good at all of these skills or you won‘t be in business for long. Word of mouth in this industry is a blessing if you are good or a bitch if you suck, even more so toady with the internet. After a while you develop some extremely marketable skills and it becomes a challenge to continue working for peanuts no matter how much you like it. You have to make a living and it’s very hard to turn down a job with benefits making double what you could as a gunsmith and only having to work 40 hours a week. The environment that the Gov is fostering today is killing small business men and entrepreneurs like me. After a while you have to look at the risk vs. reward ratio and make a choice. Life is too short and family is too precious to be working 80 hours a week just to have the Gov come and steal the profits from your hard work. This new philosophy of rewarding sloth and irresponsibility and punishing hard work and sacrifice will be the end of us as a first world nation if we don’t stop it. America and American small businesses are being targeted by treasonous micromanaging politicians with a final agenda of total control of our lives, if things don’t start changing very soon we are done for. |
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Shit 2 months is nothing.I'm on my 4th month waiting on my US Optics scope.My barrel fluting at Kampfeld Customs will take 4 weeks.Today I just sent off an order to McMillans for an A5 stock––-3-4 months.
Yes it sucks but I've been around ARFCOM long enough to know here are your options and you can only pick 2––––- 1.Cheap 2.Quick 3.Quality |
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I agree. Gunsmiths have to have some of the worst customer service of any industry. Maybe that's why so many have gone out of business around here. I think you will find that most gunsmiths that are worth a damn will go out of their way to help customers. I had so much work one year I had to stop taking new jobs, I could not handle the workload and I had limited storage space. Many customers don't understand you are a one man band trying to do a job that in any other industry could afford to hire 2 or 3 people to help with the workload. I've found that most gun nuts are the cheapest bastards on the planet, not to say that there is anything wrong with being frugal, but it's hard making a living working for people with this attitude. Many of these folks want something for nothing, they will spend a $1000 on a pistol without batting an eye and then bitch about $75 to refinish the slide on that same gun. These same people will call and bitch and moan that you are no longer in business and can't understand why you closed the doors. Sometimes you just can't win dealing with the general public. If you talk to anyone that knows me I am sure they will tell you I went above and beyond with my customer service while my shop was open. Most folks would tell you I was too nice, I did a lot of free work for local LE's and Military guys. The main problem with gunsmithing today is everyone wants your services, but most don't want to pay you what it takes to make a decent living doing it. Don't get me wrong, I had a good time running my business, after a while you just get burned out working you ass off, doing the paperwork, dealing with people not wanting to pay their bill, customers bouncing checks, missing time with family and in the end seeing very little net profits for all your time and energy. There is a reason you don't see too many gunsmiths around anymore, it's a calling and a metric ass ton of work, most folks don't have the drive to do it and when they see they won't get rich they get out asap. 
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What I don't understand is why gunsmiths don't reserve a day every week or every two weeks to do quick items and get them out the door. Stuff like installing night sights or minor trigger work or even threading a barrel. If the actual time to do the work is less than one hour, set your custom rifle build down every week and get some stuff out the door. What I don't understand is why people are too lazy or dumb to be able to drift their own sights in, stake a front sight at the kitchen table or do their own trigger work even. If you can't do it your damn self... don't bitch about the smiths. Actually, Bat Breath, I do my own work, so by your dumbass standard, I can bitch all I want. My post was directed at the gunsmith with a pile of stuff to do that he could get out the door if he would just focus on it one day a week or every two weeks. That being said, not everyone that owns a gun can do all the work themselves, including easy stuff like adjusting their own sights. They damn sure do not know how to stone a trigger. |