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Posted: 3/18/2002 9:04:09 AM EDT
I was talking to a freind yesterday over dinner about my company. We don't have very many internal promotions at my company unless one decided to relocate to one of our other locations. The few internal promotions here in PHX are gobbled up by the good ole boy club, and I am not in that club. I need advice on what or how to get ahead...I've been working here for almost three years. I don't want to start over at the bottom of another company like this one and hope and wait for another 2-3 years only to find that I was passed over for promotion again. Would appreciate any advice, I need to get ahead. Thanks in advance for your help. satcong out
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:22:31 AM EDT
Or just tell me how [b]you[/b] got your internal promotion...
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:32:06 AM EDT
Well it depends on your company's culture. Personal Example: I have always been aggressive. Having been a bond trader, I sometimes jump the gun, per se, on trades and for the most part it has worked in my favor. My previous employer took note of this and I was promoted to Asst. Vice Pres. w/i the 14th month there. Started in the retail end and worked my way to Capital Markets(larger institutional clientele) with in 1 1/2yr and I was there. I also got 3 salary bumps within the 2yrs and 4mos. I was there. Still bogles my mind I left that job only to be able to buy guns and carry concealed. Go figure. Again, my aggressive nature. Jump in first and worry about it later. My current employer however, do not take too kindly in my aggressiveness and out spoken nature. Matter of fact I have been written up due to my out spoken nature for insubodination. This employer seem to like docile, don't rock the boat, happy just the way it is, employee. So I guess I will never be promoted here. My advice is, look around and see if your idea of how to get ahead is the same as theirs. If not, start looking to move up with another company.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:38:56 AM EDT
Well thanks Lordtrader, that was interesting intel....I work for an ISP and I do tech support. There are other areas in which to apply and I have applied, seems like the issue here in PHX is that the supply far outweighs any demand for promotions...
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:39:02 AM EDT
It would help to know what kind of work you do, even generally. Are you talking about working your way up the management ladder? Or about advancing in job grade and responsibility within a technical or skilled specialty? Or about moving up within a sales organization?
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:40:38 AM EDT
I see you answered my question six seconds before I asked it. :) I don't know much about the IT world, so I'll let someone else advise you about that.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:40:59 AM EDT
XDSL, home netwroking, cable connections etc. Mainly tech support, although I have some exp in HR and in teaching. And there are promotions in those areas, just not in PHX.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 10:13:28 AM EDT
have you worked on getting any industry tech certifications like I NET+ or MCSE? That usually helps. aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 10:20:51 AM EDT
Here are a couple of options: 1)Talk to your boss. It depends on what sort of person he or she is. But truly if they are interested in your skills and interested in keeping you with the company, they should provide you some "career path" or at least advice on how to move up. You might simply schedule time with your boss and tell him or her that you are looking forward to a continuing career with your GREAT company (hey you gotta be diplomatic), and ask if he or she has any ideas on how you can advance your career maybe into positions requiring greater skill or greater responsibility. 2)Alternatively, if you feel that your direct superior is one of the obstacles to your advancement, or if your only advancement opportunity is to take over his or her job, then you should consider lateral transitions. Instead of looking for a job at another company that is the same as your current job, consider applying for jobs at "the next level." Eventually you will probably find a company willing to consider someone without experience if your training credentials and personality are right. If you don't have the skills for the next level, maybe consider going back to school for more training. If you are considering moving into a team leader or management position, an MBA might help. Or if you want to continue a technical track, maybe a masters in your field of choice or continuing technical education might help. 3)If all else fails, hard work usually will do the trick. Work harder, spend longer hours, turn out better work than anyone of your peers can. And don't gripe about the hardships that hard work brings (not that you would, just a generic word of caution). If that doesn't work, then office politics are often to blame, and a simple lateral transition will probably help immensely. Best of luck to you! Dilbert
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 10:30:37 AM EDT
some supervisors simply do not believe in promoting from within. they prefer to hire outsiders to fill vacancies than to promote. they are afraid internal promotion will cause dissention between employees, and are indifferent to the morale problems they create. do examine all your options where you are. but if you cant go up where you are, move sideways and try again.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 10:45:07 AM EDT
I'm in IT. I got my current position by going to school on my own. got my MCSE in NT40 and had a job lined up outside the company. Gave my notice at current company. During the exit interview the owner asked what I think he should do with IT if I were to stay. There was no IT in the company at the time. I rolled off a 12 point plan that by point 3 he was writing them down. He then countered with matched salary and threw in a Jeep Cherokee as a company car, gas insurance, taxes, the whole deal. Three years later, I own Bartertown. [:)] (figurative Mad Max reference) About 6 months ago the company paid for my Win2K training, lock stock and barrel. Now the point to all this is that if you can identify a need, train to fill the need, have a backup plan, and present your ideas in an intelligent (read $$$) manner and show a way to make or save money, then you will have it. Of course, joining the good ole boys club long enough to leverage it would not hurt and should probably be considered as a flank maneuver. If you want to talk further, email me and I'll send you my phone number. -elliott
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 10:54:01 AM EDT
satcong, you just got some really good info from the guys. The are so many variable that you must know not only your company, but your immediate supervisor. I'm just a blue collar guy that owns a machine shop. My wife works for, as I understand it, the largest financial company in the world. It's in Boston. She is a senior consultant and works with mostly men. This is a good old boys club to the max. She purposely finds senior execs that will advance her position. These people have the gift on mentoring and really want you to find the correct career path that will fit. That's a good place to begin. Oh yea, I am very proud of my wife.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 11:20:49 AM EDT
Big upward moves often involve moving to another company.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 11:26:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: the issue here in PHX is that the supply far outweighs any demand for promotions...
View Quote
That's not only PHX but all over. In my industry, a lot of the big wirehouses laid off some pretty experienced well educated individuals. Given the current state of the market, a lot of the smaller firms that are hiring and getting these guys cheap. MSNBC did a story on an analyst that worked for Dean Witter, making close to 1/2 million a year. He got laid off. Was out of work for 8mos. A smaller firm in Seattle offered him a 1/4 of what he was making and he took it. This guy has been in the industry for 20 yrs. That small firm got 20yrs experience for the price of a rookie college graduate.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 11:35:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 11:53:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2002 11:54:25 AM EDT by satcong]
I'm not surprised Shadowblade. I came back from Korea in 98' with absolutley no knowledge of computers, now I can do tech support, but I'm no Lan Tech or Sys Admin by any stretch of the imagination. I always thought that my company hired from within and would eventually train me in the area which I was promoted into. (Thats what they touted). Now I'm thinking about going back to school. I'm 38, just starting a family (First one).....My wife comes from a wealthy family and the pressure is tough...my major was speech communication. Not a good degree if one wants to make money. I'm torn between working two jobs (saving some money and investing in real estate), or going back to school.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 3:50:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 4:55:46 PM EDT
In my previous job of 11 years, I started out on the bottom of the ladder in part time employment. After a couple years I had a very good opportunity to advance but this was due to the guy above me contracting terminal lung cancer. While he was wasting away, he trained me in what to do from a hospital bed in his home. When he finally passed away I was able to take over his position and things were great for a few more years. Then that damned FDCGH showed up to destroy the company and the rest is history.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 5:11:38 PM EDT
I guess what I am trying to say, is that without true goals, and a willingness to do what ever it takes, including asking for training and being willing to relocate, it could stay just the way it is.
View Quote
This is a good point. Think about it!
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 8:08:04 PM EDT
I agree with mcgredo, If you really want to be promotd, you have to be willing to relocate. I've made major moves twice in 5 years with my company. I went from a level 3 tech from my first job, to a supervisor within three months at my new office. Then I moved again four years later, and now I manage the same department I used to work in, but for two different locations! Part of it is also letting your boss and his boss know you want to move up. Many people are happy to just move along and get a small slary increase each year. All of the promotions I've received, came after meetings with my boss (or his boss!) exspressing my desire to move up in the company. I now make over twice what I did a few years ago, with a quarterly bonus (last one was $4K), and I am being groomed to move up to the next level.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 8:32:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2002 8:35:50 PM EDT by Guzzler]
Being in the IT world for to many years now. There are basicly three ways of getting pay promotions. Managerial promotions are a different story. 1. Know your field. 2. Quit to a new job. 3. The good-ol-boy network. What I mean with "know your field" is that you end up studying, learning, and doing things better than anyone else in you area. Then do things that your managers manager (or higher) sees. It is only when someone other your immediate manager notices that you are good do you get the carrot. Now this is a bit of double edged sword. You have to do this while NOT stepping on the toes of your co-workers. Once you step on their toes, they bitch up to your manager, and things slow down, FAST. Once you get into being the "man that gets things done" you can negotiate nicely for things. Because if you leave, it doesn't look good for you manager, and he wants his boss to be happy with him. The "Quit to a new job" is self explanitory. Unfortunately, this is the most widely used method in the IT field for getting promoted. The "The good-ol-boy network" either you are in, or you are out. Personlly I am usually out of that group, so see #1 I use options #1 and #2. Currently I am in no option, taking a break and if anyone asks I just tell them "I am semi-retired" until I find something I like. Which is true, but it is funny when you say it that way, you get job offers. P.S. Forgot to add... NEVER, EVER count on your empolyeer to provide training (except for on the job/panic training). Taking classes are good for getting letters behind your name. But nothing takes the place of true knowledge. It is up to YOU to make the effort to gain knowledge.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 8:51:47 PM EDT
Well, before I got hurt two years ago I got most promotions by hard work and gaining a reputation as theguy that got shit done!! I also didn't wait for opening to be made available to me. When I found out promotions were available I literaly went to the boss and talk them that I [i]was[/i] the right man for the job. Yes I came off arrogant but it seamed to work. Never be afraid to appear confident is my point, but you better be able to back it up. sgtar15
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