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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:27:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There might be a case made that anyone claiming a religious exemption is entitled to have an impartial person evaluate whether the claim for a religious exemption is sincerely held or not. That would then throw the burden back onto the person or group that wants to evaluate someone's religious exemption to show that they are in fact impartial. A born again Christian that has to justify their belief before another born again Christian would likely have a better chance of a successful outcome than if their beliefs were evaluated by an aggressively atheistic evaluator. An aggressively atheistic evaluator who thinks all Christians are nut cases who pray to imaginary beings would be unlikely to be impartial...as would a born again Christian. So it would make sense that before anyone can evaluate the sincerity of someone's religious beliefs, we would need to evaluate the impartiality of the evaluator. The civil rights act and EEOC say your beliefs don't have to make sense to any other individual. You already have the exemption and you simply claim it. The only thing these companies are allowed to question is what, if any, accomodations need to be made. IF your requested accomodation seems far fetched that's when they are allowed limited questioning of your religious beliefs. Most of these companies making determinations as to the validity of your beliefs are on very shaky legal ground and I can't wait to see them pay through the nose in damages. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:27:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, the lady was lying to the man. None of those drugs were developed, tested, or produced via fetal cell lines. It's a stupid comment from a stupid person in a hospital who lifted the list from a Faceplant post. It's pretty easy to prove aspirin wasn't developed, tested, or produced using them since it was first produced in 1853. I made some in high school Chemistry class. No fetal cells involved. The problem is we have people without even a modicum of common sense who didn't even do 30 seconds of due diligence to check to see that it was entirely false. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone understand what the question about acetaminophen had to do with religious exemption? Yes, acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft were all developed using the fetal cell lines. So anyone who takes them but not the Covid vaxx and cites the fetal cell lines is lying. It’s kind of a “gotcha”. Op was smart to answer the way he did. No, the lady was lying to the man. None of those drugs were developed, tested, or produced via fetal cell lines. It's a stupid comment from a stupid person in a hospital who lifted the list from a Faceplant post. It's pretty easy to prove aspirin wasn't developed, tested, or produced using them since it was first produced in 1853. I made some in high school Chemistry class. No fetal cells involved. The problem is we have people without even a modicum of common sense who didn't even do 30 seconds of due diligence to check to see that it was entirely false. The broader point is, you can fall for their “gotcha” or not. Why fall into a trap that can easily be avoided? Imagine we are walking through the woods. A large steel jawed trap sits in the path. I say “that’s a bear trap, don’t step in it”. You say, “no it’s not, it’s a lion trap, here I’ll stick my foot in to show you”. A sensible person would simply avoid the trap altogether as the OP has wisely done. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:29:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Stand your ground Tim.
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:29:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The current formulations that we take were tested using the fetal cell lines. The fact that other formulations existed prior is irrelevant. So I wouldn’t fall for their traps. Note: this in intended to be helpful in case anyone faces a similar “gotcha”. The best answer is the answer that OP gave. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft were all developed using the fetal cell lines. So anyone who takes them but not the Covid vaxx and cites the fetal cell lines is lying. It’s kind of a “gotcha”. Op was smart to answer the way he did. Bolded - False. At least several of those were developed long before fetal cell lines were available. That they might have been tested later, when fetal cell lines were available, is immaterial to the argument. For example, if Ford uses a pile of dead babies to test traction control as part of development of traction control, that's a bad and one could have a religious exemption to using that vehicle. But if they developed the traction control and then later on, for curiosity's sake, tested the traction control on a pile of dead babies, that's a situation of misapplying the principles of objection if trying to apply the argument of developmental testing, since testing in the development cycle is part of the development. Post-development testing isn't really "testing" in the same sense. Moreover, at least for Catholics, we can have an objection to particular vaccines merely in conscience and for a variety of reasons, as outlined here: https://cocatholicconference.org/a-letter-from-the-bishops-on-covid-19-vaccine-mandates/ The current formulations that we take were tested using the fetal cell lines. The fact that other formulations existed prior is irrelevant. So I wouldn’t fall for their traps. Note: this in intended to be helpful in case anyone faces a similar “gotcha”. The best answer is the answer that OP gave. No, they were not. At no time were any of those items developed, tested, or produced via fetal cell lines. It's pretty easy to determine that for yourself. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:29:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's just a gotcha thing. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210918/some-medications-also-tied-to-religious-vaccine-exemption Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does anyone understand what the question about acetaminophen had to do with religious exemption? It's just a gotcha thing. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210918/some-medications-also-tied-to-religious-vaccine-exemption Too bad it's bogus. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:29:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me: "Resistance to Tyrants is Duty to God." HR: "It doesn't say that in the Bible." Me: "It does in mine." Just append that first statement to the Nicene creed and recite it for them. done. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:31:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Next time you talk to one of those diversity goons, record the call and tell them you are recording the call. also this. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:32:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems to be an “accepted” argument, as far as these things go. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's no aborted baby tissue in mRNA. I don't think you should be forced into a VAX either. No BUT they were used in their development It seems to be an “accepted” argument, as far as these things go. If I understand correctly, the initial testing done by the companies were done using fetal cell tissues. The mRNA shots don't use fetal cell tissue in production but evidently the J&J shot does. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:33:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My only religious exemption is I religiously don't believe in taking an experimental, mandated chemical cocktail where the pharma co has total immunity and absolution of blame or legal responsibility if it turns out to give everyone cancerous tumors 8 years from now, or some other such thing. The numerous cases of myocarditis and miscarriages that are nearly immediate are bad enough. Right now my employer says show proof of vaccination or submit to weekly testing, so at least I have the testing option ...for now. I'll bet in a month that option gets pulled though. Remember that even those that have got the shot can be carriers. In all fairness and a valid stance is that if you are to be tested then EVERYONE needs to be tested since they are just as likely to be carriers. If that is not done they you have been discriminated against. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:33:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Not too sure about JJ vaccine but Pfizer and Moderna didn't use fetal cell lines for it...
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:34:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I understand correctly, the initial testing done by the companies were done using fetal cell tissues. The mRNA shots don't use fetal cell tissue in production but evidently the J&J shot does. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's no aborted baby tissue in mRNA. I don't think you should be forced into a VAX either. No BUT they were used in their development It seems to be an “accepted” argument, as far as these things go. If I understand correctly, the initial testing done by the companies were done using fetal cell tissues. The mRNA shots don't use fetal cell tissue in production but evidently the J&J shot does. I mean that it seems to be an acceptable argument when making an objection. If I was making an objection, I wouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:35:38 PM EDT
[#12]
I don't mean to piddle on your parade, but HIPPA has nothing to do with employers asking about medical information. If your attorney said otherwise, you should take that as a clue.
Declining to answer a question on the advice of counsel is the same as giving the worst possible answer (unless you are being interrogated by the Po Po). In general, declining to answer questions raises doubts about the sincerity of your alleged beliefs. You should compare the percentage of unvaccinated people in ICUs with covid to the percentage of people who are unvaccinated in the population. Perhaps choosing to get vaccinated based upon the merits of the vaccine is an appropriate choice. Just because something is mandated (like child car seats and driving on the right side of the road) doesn't mean it is automatically evil. Nor are you bending a knee by driving on the right side of the road. If not, I hope the next job works out better. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:36:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The broader point is, you can fall for their “gotcha” or not. Why fall into a trap that can easily be avoided? Imagine we are walking through the woods. A large steel jawed trap sits in the path. I say “that’s a bear trap, don’t step in it”. You say, “no it’s not, it’s a lion trap, here I’ll stick my foot in to show you”. A sensible person would simply avoid the trap altogether as the OP has wisely done. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone understand what the question about acetaminophen had to do with religious exemption? Yes, acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft were all developed using the fetal cell lines. So anyone who takes them but not the Covid vaxx and cites the fetal cell lines is lying. It’s kind of a “gotcha”. Op was smart to answer the way he did. No, the lady was lying to the man. None of those drugs were developed, tested, or produced via fetal cell lines. It's a stupid comment from a stupid person in a hospital who lifted the list from a Faceplant post. It's pretty easy to prove aspirin wasn't developed, tested, or produced using them since it was first produced in 1853. I made some in high school Chemistry class. No fetal cells involved. The problem is we have people without even a modicum of common sense who didn't even do 30 seconds of due diligence to check to see that it was entirely false. The broader point is, you can fall for their “gotcha” or not. Why fall into a trap that can easily be avoided? Imagine we are walking through the woods. A large steel jawed trap sits in the path. I say “that’s a bear trap, don’t step in it”. You say, “no it’s not, it’s a lion trap, here I’ll stick my foot in to show you”. A sensible person would simply avoid the trap altogether as the OP has wisely done. While the OP correctly used the "on advice of counsel" ploy to doge answering the question, the only trap there is would be the company using a bogus question to deny a religious exemption that they would end up paying thru the nose for in court. It's almost a giveaway to the employee and his lawyer. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:39:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While the OP correctly used the "on advice of counsel" ploy to doge answering the question, the only trap there is would be the company using a bogus question to deny a religious exemption that they would end up paying thru the nose for in court. It's almost a giveaway to the employee and his lawyer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone understand what the question about acetaminophen had to do with religious exemption? Yes, acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft were all developed using the fetal cell lines. So anyone who takes them but not the Covid vaxx and cites the fetal cell lines is lying. It’s kind of a “gotcha”. Op was smart to answer the way he did. No, the lady was lying to the man. None of those drugs were developed, tested, or produced via fetal cell lines. It's a stupid comment from a stupid person in a hospital who lifted the list from a Faceplant post. It's pretty easy to prove aspirin wasn't developed, tested, or produced using them since it was first produced in 1853. I made some in high school Chemistry class. No fetal cells involved. The problem is we have people without even a modicum of common sense who didn't even do 30 seconds of due diligence to check to see that it was entirely false. The broader point is, you can fall for their “gotcha” or not. Why fall into a trap that can easily be avoided? Imagine we are walking through the woods. A large steel jawed trap sits in the path. I say “that’s a bear trap, don’t step in it”. You say, “no it’s not, it’s a lion trap, here I’ll stick my foot in to show you”. A sensible person would simply avoid the trap altogether as the OP has wisely done. While the OP correctly used the "on advice of counsel" ploy to doge answering the question, the only trap there is would be the company using a bogus question to deny a religious exemption that they would end up paying thru the nose for in court. It's almost a giveaway to the employee and his lawyer. You do you, but personally I’d advise to do as OP has done rather than face a drawn out, expensive and uncertain outcome in court. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:39:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't mean to piddle on your parade, but HIPPA has nothing to do with employers asking about medical information. If your attorney said otherwise, you should take that as a clue. Declining to answer a question on the advice of counsel is the same as giving the worst possible answer (unless you are being interrogated by the Po Po). In general, declining to answer questions raises doubts about the sincerity of your alleged beliefs. You should compare the percentage of unvaccinated people in ICUs with covid to the percentage of people who are unvaccinated in the population. Perhaps choosing to get vaccinated based upon the merits of the vaccine is an appropriate choice. Just because something is mandated (like child car seats and driving on the right side of the road) doesn't mean it is automatically evil. Nor are you bending a knee by driving on the right side of the road. If not, I hope the next job works out better. Declining to answer on advice of counsel is always the right answer. I'd suggest learning to spell HIPAA before pontificating about what it entails. 
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:42:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It also seems like a ploy to flush conservative leaning people out of government agencies. That's a big ol bingo. Combine with the recent push to call into doubt those retiring from the military/law enforcement as an extremist risk. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:43:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone understand what the question about acetaminophen had to do with religious exemption? It has fetal stuff too and they use this to whataboutism trip you up |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:48:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Its disgusting that you even have to go through this. All our freedoms are dead over nothing. People who think the OP should be forced to take something that has dubious efficacy at best should shag off to North Korea, then again I bet the Norks arent even vaccinating anybody.
The way we are loosing rights and freedoms daily is appalling, even worse some of you even cheer their loss. When they are gone we wont see them return in our lifetime. I am afraid for the future, it looks bleak for many of us. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:48:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Declining to answer on advice of counsel is always the right answer. I'd suggest learning to spell HIPAA before pontificating about what it entails.  Let me know when you find the part of HIPPO (Damn, I did it again) that prevents employers from asking you questions about your use of medications. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 6:50:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It also seems like a ploy to flush conservative leaning people out of government agencies. It's the primary purpose |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:01:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has fetal stuff too and they use this to whataboutism trip you up Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does anyone understand what the question about acetaminophen had to do with religious exemption? It has fetal stuff too and they use this to whataboutism trip you up Uh, no, it doesn't. These folks are too stupid to actually determine that the thing they're using to try to trip people up actually puts themselves in a precarious position. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:03:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for making fun of my spelling. 3rd grade was rough. Let me know when you find the part of HIPPO (Damn, I did it again) that prevents employers from asking you questions about your use of medications. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Declining to answer on advice of counsel is always the right answer. I'd suggest learning to spell HIPAA before pontificating about what it entails. Let me know when you find the part of HIPPO (Damn, I did it again) that prevents employers from asking you questions about your use of medications. As his attorney advised him, since his employer is not a medical provider, they have no requirement to protect his private medical information in the absence of a non-disclosure agreement. Perfectly acceptable tactic. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:03:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My only religious exemption is I religiously don't believe in taking an experimental, mandated chemical cocktail where the pharma co has total immunity and absolution of blame or legal responsibility if it turns out to give everyone cancerous tumors 8 years from now, or some other such thing. The numerous cases of myocarditis and miscarriages that are nearly immediate are bad enough. Right now my employer says show proof of vaccination or submit to weekly testing, so at least I have the testing option ...for now. I'll bet in a month that option gets pulled though. They gave my wife that option of weekly testing.....BUT also has to wear an N95 mask. That makes it impossible to talk on the phone which is 85% of her job. She expects to get fired next week when management gets back in. But then again, she expected to be fired last Friday too. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:07:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some testing of acetaminophen has been done on the same cell lines used for the vaccines. It's to see if your belief against aborted fetal cell testing extends farther than just this vaccine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does anyone understand what the question about acetaminophen had to do with religious exemption? So basically if you use acetaminophen or any of the other OTC tested against a fetal cell line you cannot object to the mRNA vaccines because that is what they did? The mRNA vaccines were test against a cell line but that is their only connection to the cell line. I wonder how many people know this? |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:09:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't mean to piddle on your parade, but HIPPA has nothing to do with employers asking about medical information. If your attorney said otherwise, you should take that as a clue. Declining to answer a question on the advice of counsel is the same as giving the worst possible answer (unless you are being interrogated by the Po Po). In general, declining to answer questions raises doubts about the sincerity of your alleged beliefs. You should compare the percentage of unvaccinated people in ICUs with covid to the percentage of people who are unvaccinated in the population. Perhaps choosing to get vaccinated based upon the merits of the vaccine is an appropriate choice. Just because something is mandated (like child car seats and driving on the right side of the road) doesn't mean it is automatically evil. Nor are you bending a knee by driving on the right side of the road. If not, I hope the next job works out better. So shut up and just do it. Got it. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:13:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for making fun of my spelling. 3rd grade was rough. Let me know when you find the part of HIPPO (Damn, I did it again) that prevents employers from asking you questions about your use of medications. Let me know when you find the part that lets individuals make their own choice about the vaccine instead of playing the stupid human tricks game to try and preserve a career, dignity, and our country. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:14:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for making fun of my spelling. 3rd grade was rough. Let me know when you find the part of HIPPO (Damn, I did it again) that prevents employers from asking you questions about your use of medications. Under no circumstances would medications come up. A list of job requirements goes to doc and doc says what is and isn't effected. At no time...no time is a pharmacy record made avail to employers. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:15:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So basically if you use acetaminophen or any of the other OTC tested against a fetal cell line you cannot object to the mRNA vaccines because that is what they did? The mRNA vaccines were test against a cell line but that is their only connection to the cell line. I wonder how many people know this? I wonder how many care that you know this? |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:23:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope it works out in your favor. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:29:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So basically if you use acetaminophen or any of the other OTC tested against a fetal cell line you cannot object to the mRNA vaccines because that is what they did? The mRNA vaccines were test against a cell line but that is their only connection to the cell line. I wonder how many people know this? If I had been using a product for some time and then some time later found out that product was made using slave labor without my prior knowledge, making an informed decision to no longer use that product sounds like the right thing to do. No different than being informed that a common OTC drug that I have used in the past was brought to market using some practices and methods that go against my conscience. Again I am able to make an informed decision and move forward. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:30:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft were all developed using the fetal cell lines. So anyone who takes them but not the Covid vaxx and cites the fetal cell lines is lying. It’s kind of a “gotcha”. Op was smart to answer the way he did. Any source for this? I understand how some drugs were developed using fetal cell lines, but hasn’t aspirin been around for like 100 years? |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:36:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Office of Diversity. I wonder how diverse their staff is? Judging by the names I found when I looked them up, very diverse. There wasn't one name that I saw that leapt out to me screaming "I'm a White guy."  @zw17 thanks man. The HIPAA thing I added. She's a representative of my employer and I don't think they have any fucking right to ask me dick about my health habits so I panic dropped that line. Remember, I work form home. I have spent exactly 4 hours in the office, on my first day. I will never work in the office as I am not commuting to Boston for what they pay me.... I can go and change my pronouns at any time and God help anyone who addresses me otherwise.....the wrath of HR will be upon them! I also wrote a 5 paragraph email to my manager regarding my supervisor and his lack of people skills, not training us and a host of other sins. Fuck it. Already had one person quit because of him. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:44:30 PM EDT
[#33]
I find it abhorrent that anyone has to hide behind/invoke religion just to be allowed the freedom to say NO.
I think the whole abortion tissue canard is asinine, but apparently that's what it takes; so good luck, OP, I hope you can beat them. Still, using religion in this manner tends to degrade religion into a pawn in some kind of bureaucratic chess game. You should just be allowed to say NO and not even give a reason. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:49:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't mean to piddle on your parade, but HIPPA has nothing to do with employers asking about medical information. If your attorney said otherwise, you should take that as a clue. Declining to answer a question on the advice of counsel is the same as giving the worst possible answer (unless you are being interrogated by the Po Po). In general, declining to answer questions raises doubts about the sincerity of your alleged beliefs. You should compare the percentage of unvaccinated people in ICUs with covid to the percentage of people who are unvaccinated in the population. Perhaps choosing to get vaccinated based upon the merits of the vaccine is an appropriate choice. Just because something is mandated (like child car seats and driving on the right side of the road) doesn't mean it is automatically evil. Nor are you bending a knee by driving on the right side of the road. If not, I hope the next job works out better. What if you are being interrogated by communists? These inquisitions are a hostile act against the employee. There is no moral reason for interrogating someone on their beliefs. Unfortunately the people with the statistics are untrustworthy. I don't have any reason to trust their numbers, or anything else they have to say, since they have been caught lying so many times. How many of them are telling the truth about masks? Mandating these 'vaccines' is evil. Why isn't natural immunity, the best immunity, an exemption? You may be naive enough to think they are pushing mandates because they believe the vaccines work and are going to solve covid, or they care about your health. But that is not reality. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 7:53:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find it abhorrent that anyone has to hide behind/invoke religion just to be allowed the freedom to say NO. I think the whole abortion tissue canard is asinine, but apparently that's what it takes; so good luck, OP, I hope you can beat them. Still, using religion in this manner tends to degrade religion into a pawn in some kind of bureaucratic chess game. You should just be allowed to say NO and not even give a reason. Especially given the fact that the vaccine does nothing to stop the spread of the virus. Vax or not a person can still get it and still pass it to others. We know this is not a polio or small pox situation where we can come out forever free of that virus. The logical thing to argue should be that the vaccinated should be required to be tested same as unvaccinated. The message is clear. Resist and you will be ruined. I have a sincere belief that the vaccine is ruining lives. It is almost as if all of the political coercion tactics going on by the .gov is being deployed in ways that should make a reasonable person find religion. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 8:03:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: I work for a state government and the governor declared that all executive branch employees have until October 17th to get the clot shot. The state police are suing over this mandate and I am in touch with a lawyer and if fired will be joining a class action lawsuit. If I am not approved by October 17 I face a 5 day suspension, unpaid. Ten 10 days, then "further disciplinary action", up to and including termination. I accept this and don't really want to hear any stupid assed GD level bullshit here. I'm posting this to share my experience and hope that others will know that they are not alone in standing up to this tyranny. I had a scheduled conference call last week and it was cancelled less than 24 hours prior. I received a new notice yesterday for todays meeting. Nice lady with hyphenated last name calls me and starts by letting me know that she is essentially checking on my "sincerely held religious beliefs" to see if I qualify. I suppose that means if I convince her that I sincerely hold my beliefs, which I do. Quite obviously reading from a script, she asked about why I felt the way that I did, I gave her a brief but I hope thorough list of the vaxx makers and aborted baby cell lines used in the development thereof. I also quoted the bible regarding life beginning in the womb. She asked if I had taken acetaminophen and I responded that under advice of counsel I declined to answer questions regarding my medical history and due to HIPAA I would need a signed statement of confidentiality before I spoke to anyone about my personal healthcare choices. She asked several other questions along the same vein and replied in the same way- Counsel advised me not to reply/HIPAA. She asked if I had ever been vaccinated, I replied that not after I was aware of the aborted baby tissue issue. She asked for info about my church/pastor, I declined, stating again that it was on the advice of counsel. The whole thing took about 15 minutes. As we closed she said that they would be getting back to me without a firm idea of when that would be. I hope before OCB Friday, but I expect that I may log in on Monday and find my access revoked if the decision does not go in my favor. Religious beliefs are not tied to theistic beliefs Go to 4:30  Pee Wee's Big Adventure Biker Bar: I say we Stomp, Tattoo, Hang, and Kill Him! |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 8:19:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Conversely, my Governor said state employees can't even be asked their vax status and can't be required to wear masks. It is kinda a blind squirrel situation with Abbott since he shut down the state originally and he has to wait for DeSantis to do something before he tries it.
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Posted: 10/13/2021 8:40:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any source for this? I understand how some drugs were developed using fetal cell lines, but hasn’t aspirin been around for like 100 years? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes, acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft were all developed using the fetal cell lines. So anyone who takes them but not the Covid vaxx and cites the fetal cell lines is lying. It’s kind of a “gotcha”. Op was smart to answer the way he did. Any source for this? I understand how some drugs were developed using fetal cell lines, but hasn’t aspirin been around for like 100 years? 1853 for aspirin, acetaminophen prior to 1900. The question was a red herring as neither aspirin nor acetaminophen was developed or made with fetal cell lines. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 8:47:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't mean to piddle on your parade, but HIPPA has nothing to do with employers asking about medical information. If your attorney said otherwise, you should take that as a clue. Declining to answer a question on the advice of counsel is the same as giving the worst possible answer (unless you are being interrogated by the Po Po). In general, declining to answer questions raises doubts about the sincerity of your alleged beliefs. You should compare the percentage of unvaccinated people in ICUs with covid to the percentage of people who are unvaccinated in the population. Perhaps choosing to get vaccinated based upon the merits of the vaccine is an appropriate choice. Just because something is mandated (like child car seats and driving on the right side of the road) doesn't mean it is automatically evil. Nor are you bending a knee by driving on the right side of the road. If not, I hope the next job works out better. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 8:48:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1853 for aspirin, acetaminophen prior to 1900. The question was a red herring as neither aspirin nor acetaminophen was developed or made with fetal cell lines. It's trickery and it tells you the ethics of these people. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 8:50:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft were all developed using the fetal cell lines. So anyone who takes them but not the Covid vaxx and cites the fetal cell lines is lying. It’s kind of a “gotcha”. Op was smart to answer the way he did. Not sure about your entire list, but aspirin was developed by bayer long before fetal cells were being extracted. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 8:52:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they legally allowed to interrogate your religious beliefs like that? Sounds like illegal shit to me. But I don't stay at holiday inns... I am not an employment lawyer, but employment lawyers have told me there is case law saying the employer doesn't get to interrogate the employee and make a decision about whether the beliefs are sincerely held. I hope someone breaks it off in these employers' asses over this. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 9:25:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not an employment lawyer, but employment lawyers have told me there is case law saying the employer doesn't get to interrogate the employee and make a decision about whether the beliefs are sincerely held. I hope someone breaks it off in these employers' asses over this. ETA- that sounded much grander than it seems to me. I have ben in touch with a law office that is preparing a lawsuit. I am sure that I am one of dozens of small cogs in this. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 9:47:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bolded - False. At least several of those were developed long before fetal cell lines were available. That they might have been tested later, when fetal cell lines were available, is immaterial to the argument. For example, if Ford uses a pile of dead babies to test traction control as part of development of traction control, that's a bad and one could have a religious exemption to using that vehicle. But if they developed the traction control and then later on, for curiosity's sake, tested the traction control on a pile of dead babies, that's a situation of misapplying the principles of objection if trying to apply the argument of developmental testing, since testing in the development cycle is part of the development. Post-development testing isn't really "testing" in the same sense. Moreover, at least for Catholics, we can have an objection to particular vaccines merely in conscience and for a variety of reasons, as outlined here: https://cocatholicconference.org/a-letter-from-the-bishops-on-covid-19-vaccine-mandates/ Might keep me from buying a Ford, though. As if I need another reason to never buy another Ford!
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Posted: 10/13/2021 10:24:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let me know when you find the part that lets individuals make their own choice about the vaccine instead of playing the stupid human tricks game to try and preserve a career, dignity, and our country. The people asking for religious exemptions are primarily people who have never raised it in the past. Stupid Human Trick #1 - Obviously and openly pretend to have an actual religious exemption. Hmmm.... Stupid Human Trick #2 - Employers now need to go through the formality of "investigating" these exemptions. Stupid Human Trick #3 - Employers also decide to ask questions just to point out to you that they know this is bullshit. Maybe scare a few into quitting or getting vaxxed. Stupid Human Trick #4 - Think there is a civil right claim for getting fired for not getting vaxxed. Private employers do not need to respect employees' civil rights except as required by law (like race or sex discrimination). Stupid Human Trick #5 - Think they are actually going to fire you for claiming a religious exemption. Unless there is an embarrassing number of the newly religious, the company will probably keep most of the new faithful. Of course, anyone who failed to cooperate with the "investigation" is a good candidate to get rid of. "Failed to provide required information to evaluate the claim." None of this applies to people in healthcare. Stupid Human Trick #6 - Turn a health care decision into a political statement. That applies to everyone from government, business, and individuals. The real question is why are those who refuse to bend a knee have a newfound religious zeal.  |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 10:28:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stupid Human Tricks is the perfect phrase to describe what is going on and on so many levels. The people asking for religious exemptions are primarily people who have never raised it in the past. Stupid Human Trick #1 - Obviously and openly pretend to have an actual religious exemption. Hmmm.... Stupid Human Trick #2 - Employers now need to go through the formality of "investigating" these exemptions. Stupid Human Trick #3 - Employers also decide to ask questions just to point out to you that they know this is bullshit. Maybe scare a few into quitting or getting vaxxed. Stupid Human Trick #4 - Think there is a civil right claim for getting fired for not getting vaxxed. Private employers do not need to respect employees' civil rights except as required by law (like race or sex discrimination). Stupid Human Trick #5 - Think they are actually going to fire you for claiming a religious exemption. Unless there is an embarrassing number of the newly religious, the company will probably keep most of the new faithful. Of course, anyone who failed to cooperate with the "investigation" is a good candidate to get rid of. "Failed to provide required information to evaluate the claim." None of this applies to people in healthcare. Stupid Human Trick #6 - Turn a health care decision into a political statement. That applies to everyone from government, business, and individuals. The real question is why are those who refuse to bend a knee have a newfound religious zeal. Door 1 2 3 choose one, quickly, your life depends on it. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 10:33:57 PM EDT
[#47]
You don't have to be a religious zealot to believe murdering unborn children and then using them for medical tests is morally wrong.
You don't have to answer the phone "Praise Jesus" or spend your extra money buying Joel Osteen a new jet. You don't have to have a plastic Jesus on your dashboard. You can be a normal everyday guy who knows it's evil. Or you can be a smug asshole who uses the internet to prop up his overinflated ego. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 10:40:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope it works out in your favor. Ram your boot up their fucking commie asses, OP. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 11:40:55 PM EDT
[#49]
At least we made it to page 2 before the septic started backing up and now there's pieces of crap everywhere in here. Watch your step guys.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:03:38 AM EDT
[#50]
You can almost bet they were recording the conversation to use against you. Good on you for being prepared as if you were in a deposition. Many of their questions were very intrusive and violations of HIPAA and the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendment.
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