I suppose I'll just start a "what I'm building" thread.(now with more forge welding) - Page 4

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I suppose I'll just start a "what I'm building" thread.(now with more forge welding) (Page 4 of 17)

Posted: 3/3/2020 10:20:30 PM EDT

[#1]

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Nevermind the food on the stove top, but I'm trying my probe thermometer to keep an eye on what's going on in the oven. I've got the kiln shelf in there to soak up some of the temperature swings.

Posted: 3/7/2020 4:57:38 PM EDT

[#2]

I love the smell of flat grinds in the morning.(not really, ground metal stinks and I wear a respirator so I don't get "grinder's asthma")

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I'm not sure what I had in mind when I drew up the bottom one. I'm not sure if I should build a sheath for it or put it in the kitchen.

Posted: 3/9/2020 7:04:20 PM EDT

[#3]

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I was cutting up some firewood and found this.

Is it a big pain in the ass to cut it up and send it off to be stabilized?

Would I be better off trying to sell it as is and use the money to buy handle materials?

Posted: 3/9/2020 11:06:56 PM EDT

[#4]

I cut up a lot of my handle material. Cut them at least 1 1/4" thick, I cut 1 3/8" or thicker. Once cut, stack it with sticks between them so it dries evenly. It needs to be below 10% to stabilize. I dry mine to 6% or so. It will take a year or so to dry just stacked this way. I have a steel cabinet that I Use to kiln dry it. I use a 20" box fan and a little electric heater.

K&G charges by the weight after they stabilize it. If you have at least 10 pounds, you get the lowest price. The spalted stuff I have sent in just about doubles in weight once stabilized, so I make sure I have at least 7 lbs when I ship to them.

Posted: 3/10/2020 12:25:32 AM EDT

[#5]

Do you cut it into handle blocks or scales before you ship it in or just send in the 1 3/8" slabs?

Posted: 3/11/2020 12:44:19 AM EDT

[#6]

I cut into blocks. Even at 1" to 1 1/4" thick, some still warp. There's no way scale thickness will stay flat enough during stabilizing. I have sent some pieces 3"-4" wide and up to 12" long.

Posted: 3/17/2020 11:08:09 PM EDT

[#7]

One has found a new home.

That is all.

Posted: 3/21/2020 12:05:15 AM EDT

[#8]

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Posted: 3/21/2020 5:22:21 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
One has found a new home.

That is all.

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Hold on, is this the one that you were giving to a friend, or did you sell one?

Posted: 3/21/2020 5:37:50 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hold on, is this the one that you were giving to a friend, or did you sell one?

View Quote

The one for a friend (pictured earlier, brown handles and sheath)was "ordered" by him "I'd love to buy one from you"- exact quote, and he was the one who approached me about it. Communication about colors, shapes, sheath was all smiles and excitement

Until I asked for his address and told him my price.(it was very reasonable). I haven't heard from him since then. (~2 months ish). I am in a weird spot. I'm hesitant to contact him for a bit though because;
A- I don't want to seem like I'm nagging him about it,
2- I sold it to someone local,
d- it was my fault for not setting the expectation before the agreement was made.

Definitely a learning experience. The sale was a complete accident. I was just going to let the knife in question sit around forever. A local knife nut and I struck up a conversation and a third party brought that knife up because he had seen it. An offer was made and I accepted. Materials and supplies are getting expensive. Lol

The blue one was just finished. It's just going on the pile at this point. Expect some knife/sausage pics featuring it later. Lol

Posted: 3/21/2020 5:52:57 PM EDT

[#11]

If I wasn't a one maker kinda guy, I might be trying to get the CF/bone one outta ya.

Good work. Keep accidentally selling them.

Posted: 3/21/2020 6:04:32 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
If I wasn't a one maker kinda guy, I might be trying to get the CF/bone one outta ya.

Good work. Keep accidentally selling them.

View Quote

Thanks. I'll probably revisit that idea again, either with some ivory paper micarta or after enough time that I've forgotten the smell of the bone. Lol

I'm planning on letting a few go moving forward.

Posted: 3/27/2020 2:05:30 AM EDT

[#13]

I'm noticing a bad trend on my last couple of knives.

The epoxy is failing along the front edge of the scales. If the blade is flexed, it opens up a gap between the scale and the tang. I thought that maybe the richlite was too smooth, so on my last one I ground a groove with 80 grit up to about 1/8" from the edges, and the tang was perforated many times with a 1/8" drill.

The only thing I can think is that maybe I'm using too much acetone on the cotton swab when I clean up the epoxy that squeezes out the front and it's wicking under the scales and causing the epoxy to be weak.

Any ideas that you guys can think of to get this squared away?

Posted: 3/27/2020 10:35:13 AM EDT

[#14]

From what I’ve read, you need 80 grit or courser scratches for the best epoxy adhesion. I flatten my scales on a disc grinder with 80 grit and grind the tang of the blade with 60 grit.

If it is the cleaning with acetone that is causing this, I’ve heard to pin your scales to the blade, then smear Vaseline on the front of the scales and ricasso of the blade. Remove the scales and glue them on. When the epoxy is dry, you can pop the squeeze out right off. I just tested this last night using car wax instead of Vaseline. I left the wax fairly thick on both parts. This morning the epoxy came right off with no evidence of it ever being there.

I’ve had trouble with the epoxy that squeezes out of the front of the scales discoloring an etched blade. I will be using the wax from now on to prevent this. I’m getting ready to glue a couple up now and I’ll let you know how it goes.

Posted: 3/27/2020 7:18:07 PM EDT

[#15]

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually just saw your posts on the 'gram and asked a question on there, but since I read this I think I've got a handle (I'd talk like that anyway, but I'll take an accidental pun

) on the process and plan on giving it a try on my next one.

I plan to have a new picture to put up on here tonight, we'll see if I can get-er-done though.

It's my first experiment with ferric chloride

Posted: 3/28/2020 12:20:16 AM EDT

[#16]

Here's a picture of what I'm working on now.

The epoxy had failed at the front of the scales. I forced a gap open and put an exacto blade in it and packed epoxy in. I did both sides then clamped it up and waited until the squeeze out was rubbery and peeled it off. It's stuck now, so I'm going with the idea that I was getting acetone in there when cleaning up the epoxy. I'll not do that on the next one and see if it works again.

It's not done, but I figured I'd post a picture of it in case things go off the rails here in a minute. Lol

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Posted: 3/28/2020 12:25:08 AM EDT

[#17]

I'm not 100% happy with the results, but I can definitely live with it.

I'm not sure why the blackness is so uneven. It's worse on the spine in the handle. There are a couple of sections where it is more grey than black. I tried scrubbing with soap and a brush and re etching but it didn't seem to change.

There's also a shiny section near the edge on one side that was a surprise to me. No idea how that happened.

I'm definitely going to be playing with this more in the future though.

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Posted: 3/29/2020 2:02:45 AM EDT

[#18]

Here's where we're stopping. I definitely need to do more experimenting with etching. It's proving difficult to get a uniform etch over the whole knife.

I'm using it straight for now, but it seems like some people are diluting it. Maybe that will help with uniformity.

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Posted: 3/29/2020 1:14:45 PM EDT

[#19]

If it's ferric chloride, I mix 8 oz FC with 32 oz distilled water. Most say that the weaker the mix, the better the etch will be. It may take more or longer etches, but should be a more even etch.

Posted: 3/29/2020 4:16:32 PM EDT

[#20]

That makes a little more sense.

I noticed that I got the best results with a quick dip, like 10-15 seconds would give me a nice even color.

Longer dips would result in a dark black layer that would scrub off easily.

Posted: 3/30/2020 12:25:58 AM EDT

[#21]

Another thing, when you take it out of the ferric, it needs to be neutralized. I spray with windex that has ammonia in it before I do any scrubbing or cleaning. Neutralizing it sets the etch.

Posted: 3/30/2020 12:55:43 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Another thing, when you take it out of the ferric, it needs to be neutralized. I spray with windex that has ammonia in it before I do any scrubbing or cleaning. Neutralizing it sets the etch.

View Quote

Thanks. I'll give that a try.

I've been taking it out of the FC and washing with a brush and hot water and then dunking it in water with baking soda to neutralize it.

Posted: 3/30/2020 9:14:08 PM EDT

[#23]

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I'm trying some new shapes. I'm thinking about making a short/fat tanto out of the design on the right too. I had one while I was cleaning up the profiles but decided to stick with my usual plan of making two of each.

I'm definitely thinking that the Trump bucks will be buying some tools. A portaband is on the very short list, along with a small wheel attachment for the grinder.

I'm hoping to be able to swing a HT oven as well, but I might not be able to. Those things are spendy.

Do you guys have a preference on brand for the ovens? It seems like paragon and evenheat are the only games in town.

What other tools should I be thinking about?

Posted: 4/11/2020 5:24:52 PM EDT

[#24]

I hate when stuff shows up near the end of a project. I was hoping to be done with the whale gutter and working on a sheath for it today.

I was getting the edges of the handles cleaned up today and a bit of a weird spot started showing up on the richlite bolster. So I did the right thing and jammed a pick in it to see what was going on.

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Great. Let's run a 1/8" drill in it and see how big it gets.

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The only thing I can think of to try to save the scale is to dye some epoxy black, fill the cavity up and hope that the color mostly matches.

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I suppose it was about time for a break anyways. Lol

I'm hoping that it ends up looking ok.

I couldn't imagine if something like that happened in an expensive piece of wood or something else that it wouldn't be acceptable to fix with epoxy.

Posted: 4/12/2020 9:00:51 PM EDT

[#25]

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I'm not really happy with this. It's perfectly serviceable, but it's not right.

The more I mess with this stuff (knifemaking), the more I realize that materials really aren't a factor in the expense of the knife. Sure, being out $8-$10 for some g10 and richlite sucks a little but thinking about the time it would take to grind these handles off and make another set plus the risk of messing the blade up in the process makes me sick.

I'll probably mess with this a little more and see if I can make it look better.

I did get this dude ground out today though. I'm pretty happy with it so far.

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Posted: 4/12/2020 10:27:54 PM EDT

[#26]

The bench colors make me happy.

Posted: 4/12/2020 11:07:39 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
The bench colors make me happy.

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That's several years worth of leather dye, grease, oil, fuel, beer, blood, dirt, grime and all manner of sanding dust ground into it. Lol

Posted: 4/13/2020 10:15:27 PM EDT

[#28]

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I'm done with most of the metal work on this one. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do for handles though. I'm thinking about some kind of wood or maybe some natural micarta.

Posted: 4/13/2020 10:48:43 PM EDT

[#29]

That looks better.

Posted: 4/13/2020 11:49:28 PM EDT

[#30]

That one is 1" stock vs. 1.5" on the other one.

This one was more my design. On the other I had....help.

Posted: 4/14/2020 8:37:47 AM EDT

[#31]

Check out BRZ Industries for a heat treat oven. Hot Shot 360 is under a grand and fully programmable.

Its a popular oven with the youtube machinist crowd.

Posted: 4/14/2020 11:34:54 AM EDT

[#32]

Thank you for the heads up on bar z.

Thats really tempting but the biggest one they have is only 12" deep. The 360 is only 10".

It's literally half the price of paragon or evenheat though.

Posted: 4/16/2020 10:06:47 PM EDT

[#33]

This guy's all done.

On to the other harpoon point. I swear I'm taking a break from harpoon points after this one. Lol

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Posted: 4/18/2020 2:09:39 PM EDT

[#34]

Me, holding a paper towel on the end of my thumb.
-"hey, can you open this bandaid for me"

wife-"are you about done doing this to yourself?"

Me- "I did it with a bandsaw this time, not a knife"

Wife - "

that makes it better?"

Lol

Posted: 4/18/2020 6:52:21 PM EDT

[#35]

Pre glue up pic of the smaller harpoon point.

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Posted: 4/18/2020 11:11:10 PM EDT

[#36]

Hollow grind?

Posted: 4/18/2020 11:19:09 PM EDT

[#37]

It's a flat grind.

I can't put a contact wheel on my grinder as it is.

Grinder mods are on the schedule after I get my heat treat oven.

Posted: 4/18/2020 11:22:43 PM EDT

[#38]

l like the blade height better. Hollow grind on there would be sweet.

Posted: 4/19/2020 6:59:01 PM EDT

[#39]

So I may have scored today.

I picked up a kiln off of offer up for $100.

The downsides:
It's 120v
It opens on the top vs the side (as a proper HT oven would)
It only has on/off switches, no way to set a specific temp
I have no idea what the max temp this thing will reach is.
It's 12"x12"x9". It does look like I could squeeze a ~15" blade in it on the diagonal though.

The upsides:
It was very cheap, compared to buying a new HT oven
I have it now vs waiting who knows how long for a new one (both major companies are closed due to Kung Flu)
The size is workable for me now. It looks like I should be able to HT a half dozen blades of the sizes I've been making at a time, so I shouldn't outgrow it any time soon.

Next step is to get a pid controller, solid state relay and a thermocouple and see if I can get it all working together.

I was looking at a kit on Amazon that was ~$40 and has everything, but I'd need to replace the thermocouple right away as it's only good to 400°C.

@kuraki or anyone else who has any experience with this kind of thing, I'd appreciate some help, suggestions or lessons learned. Thanks!

I'm pretty excited about this. It's got potential to be a big level-up for my knives quality wise and it was much less expensive than I was planning on. If I get this working as I hope, I'll be able to do the mods to my grinder sooner than I was expecting.

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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:10:07 PM EDT

[#40]

Electronics are on the way for the kiln project. I'm getting excited about being able to use stainless steels.

The handle on this Knife is a color of richlite that I haven't used before. It finished pretty neat. It doesn't show well in pictures but it has a grain to it like wood.

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Posted: 4/26/2020 12:14:58 AM EDT

[#41]

I did a thing.

I'm still waiting on my 1300°c thermocouple, so I mocked it up with the 400°c one that came with the kit.

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Posted: 4/28/2020 12:37:23 AM EDT

[#42]

Got this one finished up tonight. My favorite part of it is the handle. The color and pattern were a bit of a surprise.

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(my daughter was tracing the horse drawing so she could try to tool it onto some leather and wanted me to put it in my picture. Lol)
I'm done with harpoon points for a bit. My next knife is an evolution of my current EDC fixed blade. It's got a bit more meat in the handle. It might end up being too long for EDC carry but we'll see. I think that a handle that ends between ythird and fourth fingers might be the sweet spot for EDC sized knives for me. The next one fits all 4 fingers, so we'll see.

The thermocouple that I'm waiting on should be here tomorrow, so I'm going to use the kiln to heat treat the next batch of blades. I'm hoping that once I get it figured out, the kiln will be a big step up in quality for me.

Posted: 4/28/2020 2:48:07 PM EDT

[#43]

Very nice!

I like the kiln automation, we sell that stuff.

Here's my latest, up for auction later this week.

Posted: 4/28/2020 4:31:58 PM EDT

[#44]

That's a pretty one. I like the lower layer count patterns.

I'm getting antsy to try forge welding. I'll probably give it a whirl soon.

I was really disappointed in the PID controller when I first got it hooked up. I set it for 200°c and it overshot to 600°. I thought that the "auto tune" setting would be ok. I was wrong. Lol

I got it figured out (thanks to the internet. Lol) and it holds a 3° window around the set temp.

Posted: 4/29/2020 11:50:48 AM EDT

[#45]

Generally you need to be near your intended temp before initiating an auto-tune.

It's a popular call.

After second night etch it is a good bit darker.

Posted: 4/29/2020 3:56:13 PM EDT

[#46]

It looks Great.

What's that weird hole/notch in the blade behind it though?

Posted: 4/30/2020 10:57:20 PM EDT

[#47]

I got my thermocouple installed and ran it up to 815°c(1500f). I figured since it was up there, I'd toss a blade in and quench it. It's cooling down so I can temper the blade once tonight.

I tossed the blade(1084) in once the oven was at 1500 then left it in for a minute or two after the temp came back up to temp and stabilized, then pulled it out and quenched. The blade came out of the quench very hard. I'm hoping that it wasn't too hot.

Is there a good way to verify the temperature is actually what the PID thinks it is?

I was thinking about trying some of the cones that people use in pottery kilns. Are they consistent enough to trust?

Posted: 5/1/2020 10:38:22 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Originally Posted By DFARM:
It looks Great.

What's that weird hole/notch in the blade behind it though?

View Quote

LOL

Every...stinking...time!

Posted: 5/1/2020 10:39:33 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Originally Posted By DFARM:
I got my thermocouple installed and ran it up to 815°c(1500f). I figured since it was up there, I'd toss a blade in and quench it.  It's cooling down so I can temper the blade once tonight.

I tossed the blade(1084) in once the oven was at 1500 then left it in for a minute or two after the temp came back up to temp and stabilized, then pulled it out and quenched. The blade came out of the quench very hard.  I'm hoping that it wasn't too hot.

Is there a good way to verify the temperature is actually what the PID thinks it is?

I was thinking about trying some of the cones that people use in pottery kilns.  Are they consistent enough to trust?

View Quote

I had a hand-held laser thermometer, but I can't find it anymore.

Posted: 5/2/2020 10:54:32 AM EDT

[#50]

More adventures in electronics......

With the old thermocouple, I could dial the thing to 203c and turn it on. It would run up to ~180 then creep up to 203. No overshoot at all.

With the new one, starting cold, it's overshooting by ~75c when set to 203c. It holds great once it cools down to the set temp, but that takes a while.

The only thing I can think is that because of the ceramic insulation on the new thermocouple, it takes a bit to get warm (the insulation/thermocouple) so when it finally catches up the rest of the kiln is already way past the set temp.

Next time I use it to temper I think I'm going to try setting it to ~100c first and letting it sit there for a few minutes before dialing it up to my desired temp (203c for the 1084).

After I get the kiln figured out, I still have to figure out if my Chinese PID controller and Chinese thermocouple are trustworthy wrt the temperature actually being what it says it is.

I suppose I should start breaking some steel open to look at the grain structure. For this purpose, does it matter if the steel has been annealed or not?

I'm also ASSuming that the "perfect" grain structure will look like a piece of broken flint, is this correct?

Thanks for any help, and thanks to the few of you who pop in here and see what kind of trouble I'm getting into.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I suppose I'll just start a "what I'm building" thread.(now with more forge welding) (Page 4 of 17)

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