Posted: 11/4/2010 8:41:25 PM EDT
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I have a 19 month old GSD & he has started this growling thing towards me as of lately. If he is in his crate (door open) & I come down to his level & try to pet him in the crate (which I have always done) he will growl at me. This is a serious growl, curling his lips & all. He has started to do this when he is eating now too. I have always been able to pet him or feed him out of his bowl, but now he is changing to where he will growl.
I will not put up with this for too much longer & 1 of 2 things will happen, 1 he will knock the shit off, 2 he will not live to see 2yrs old. (I will not re-home him) I really want this to stop cause he is a very good dog except for when he growls at me, but do not really know what is going on & how to fix it. Any help or advise is appreciated. |
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Anybody? Adolescence? Is this something a dog out grows or do I need to know more? by it's very nature, most things grow out of adolescence - whether they come through it well or not is variable, though... read this article a snippet: Adult dogs are concerned with rank. Although they willingly accept you as the leader, they cannot understand a lack of guidance. If you do not give consistent direction or if you stop leading for a while, they will assume that you abdicated the throne. They're not capable of thinking "Oh, my owner is taking a week off" or " My owner loves me so much that she doesn't ask me to do anything." Seeing no one at the helm, they grab the wheel. It's as pressing to them as it would be for you if you went into the cockpit and saw no pilot. Something has to be done and they do it.
again - make sure he knows you're alpha. don't be mean, but be the leader. |
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Thanks for the link, will look at it in a bit.
Pretty sure I am acting the role of Alpha, cause he listens to me all the time. When I give him a command, such as sit, stay, come, leave it he does it w/o hesitation. He has always had issues with down (I've read this is a submissive position & some dogs are just naturally resistant to this command), unless there is a treat involved, or he goes from a sit to a down. |
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that's good - the food agression is something that neds to be dealt with, though...
and yeah, we had a female Boxer a while back, and I had to - literally - get on top of her and move each paw out from under her when teaching her "down." she did NOT want to do it. she eventually got there, but she was always slow, like, "I'm only doing this demeaning thing because you feed me." she was my first husband's first wife. 
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Assert yourself more. Get more serious with the training and do more of it, even if it's stuff your dog "knows". Tweak things up by not accepting anything less than instant performance of your commands. Get that "down" in order! Use a leash for the down: say "Down" and step on the leash. It may take a hundred rep's but he'll get it. Correct mistakes and reward good performance. Do subtle but important things like: make him down-stay by you while you do other things, never let him through a door or down a stairway first (good practice for the "stay" command, also develop a "release" command).
As for the actual growling, corrections while in the crate are tough. Outside of the crate I've had to deal with two dogs so far that gave me "attitude", my own and a friends. Both are big, dominant dogs (one Akita, one Maremma). FOLLOW THIS NEXT ADVICE AT YOUR OWN RISK: My response to growling is to instantly flatten the dog onto the floor with a forearm across the back of the neck. You must control the head lest you get bit. This is a quick but not violent move. No yelling, no commands, just hold him down with you chest across his back and wait, wait, wait for him to give up. You usually get the "big sigh". No words, no struggling, no "alpha rolling", just be as calm as you can be. When you get the sigh, get up and act like nothing ever happened. Make him sit, give him a command or two, reward good behavior. The first time you do this with the big guy might actually be the only time you need to––he may be so surprised he'll never cross you again. As for food aggression that is a very complicated topic and thankfully one I have no experience with. If you go to leerburg.com and search the forum for "food aggression" you will get a lot of good ideas. DON'T give up! This is correctable. What is your family situation? All must get just as serious as you about this. Going into group training is also very important. This will teach your dog that you are alpha in ALL situations and that he should follow your lead and your direction, to trust your decisions in all things and not to think for himself. Having other experienced handlers train him will also ensure that he will be conditioned to defer to humans. Keep us posted on your progress. |
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that's good - the food agression is something that neds to be dealt with, though... That is something that just started recently, which is kinda why I am confused to whats going on. The last time he did it, I separated the food from him & I fed him by hand & made him follow a command before I give him more food, kinda like the NILIF thing I've read about. Right or wrong I don't know. |
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Quoted:
FOLLOW THIS NEXT ADVICE AT YOUR OWN RISK: My response to growling is to instantly flatten the dog onto the floor with a forearm across the back of the neck. You must control the head lest you get bit. This is a quick but not violent move. No yelling, no commands, just hold him down with you chest across his back and wait, wait, wait for him to give up. You usually get the "big sigh". No words, no struggling, no "alpha rolling", just be as calm as you can be. When you get the sigh, get up and act like nothing ever happened. Make him sit, give him a command or two, reward good behavior. The first time you do this with the big guy might actually be the only time you need to––he may be so surprised he'll never cross you again. Just another opinion here, but I personally would find this just a bit extreme with the given information from the OP. OP, are you just giving your dog his food, or are you making him work for it? If you're just giving it to him then I would suggest making him work for the food, a extended down/stay for example while you hold his food bowl full of food would work well. Helps to remind him that the food is yours, not his, and then you're allowing him to eat it, not just giving it to him. You can take this a step further and do this with all of his toys, when he needs to go outside...ect...ect... Nothing in life is free... |
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I don't know if you would call it working for it, but before I even dish it out he is required to sit on the rug next to the food bucket, while I scoop out his serving & until after I set the bowl down. I then make him wait for a little bit while I finish doing something in the kitchen or just stand there. After I finish what I was doing or just feel he has waited long enough (he is still sitting) I look at him, tell him "good boy", then "Get it Up".
He has to do the same thing when he wants to go outside, sit in front of the door & wait for me to open it. I tell him when he can go outside before he moves from the sit position he is in. If he gets over anxious & starts to move towards the open door before he is told to, I just give him a AHT AHT AHT (best I could do to imitate the sound I make), then tell him to go back & sit. I can be in the spare room (where my computer is) & he will come to me whining all anxious like, like he wants to go outside, I just ask him "what do you gotta do?", & he will run to the door & sit. I can see the front door from the computer & if he is just by the door, I'll ask him "what are you not doing?", then he will sit, I will then get up to go let him out. Is that basically what you mean by him having to work to get things geneSW? |
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Thanks for the link, will look at it in a bit. Pretty sure I am acting the role of Alpha, cause he listens to me all the time. When I give him a command, such as sit, stay, come, leave it he does it w/o hesitation. He has always had issues with down (I've read this is a submissive position & some dogs are just naturally resistant to this command), unless there is a treat involved, or he goes from a sit to a down. What steps are you taking to position yourself as pack Alpha? Probably the easiest is to give him food and then take it away while he is eating. You should train him so you can set food down in front of him and he sits at attention until you give the command to eat. It sounds like you are already going in that direction. Follow up by actually taking away his food at least once a meal. You may even want to give him a bone fresh from the butcher and take that away, as the more primal the meal the more in touch with the wolf side the dog seems to be, and so he is going to be less willing to want to give it up, BUT when you do take the bone, it will have a bigger emotional impact. How do you take walks with him? Does he walk out in front of you? Pull you along? Keep the leash taunt? These are all signs of alpha. Your dog should HEEL. If you cannot get your dog to heel you have serious issues. Getting your dog to key into YOU and your movements happens when the dog views you as packmaster. Now remember, some dogs have natural alpha tenancies, some do not. However, ALL dogs believe a pack needs an alpha the way a plane needs a pilot. Think of you in a small plane and the pilot slumps over dead. Would you think 'oh well, we aren't crashing RIGHT NOW, so no big deal I'll go back to reading my magazine' or would you attempt SOMETHING, like getting in the co-pilot seat, grabbing the wheel and radioing for instructions? That's how dogs view a pack with no alpha, like a plane with no pilot. Having no alpha is very stressful to dogs. Someone to steps up to the alpha sometimes and then turns around and undermines their position as alpha at other times? That's like a pilot slipping in and out of consciousness. You's STILL go in 'emergency take-over mode' Same with a dog. ALSO, does your dog still have his nuts? If so, remove them. You will be doing him AND you a big favor and it has NOTHING to do with controlling pet overpopulation or avoiding testicular cancer 10 years down the road. It is all about improving his temperament and removing a huge stressor from his life....that or arrange to have him mate once a year (which I don't really recommend due to pet overpopulation, but it is the other way to take care of the biological alarm that is going off in his head) |
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What steps are you taking to position yourself as pack Alpha? Probably the easiest is to give him food and then take it away while he is eating. You should train him so you can set food down in front of him and he sits at attention until you give the command to eat. It sounds like you are already going in that direction. Follow up by actually taking away his food at least once a meal. You may even want to give him a bone fresh from the butcher and take that away, as the more primal the meal the more in touch with the wolf side the dog seems to be, and so he is going to be less willing to want to give it up, BUT when you do take the bone, it will have a bigger emotional impact. How do you take walks with him? Does he walk out in front of you? Pull you along? Keep the leash taunt? These are all signs of alpha. Your dog should HEEL. If you cannot get your dog to heel you have serious issues. Getting your dog to key into YOU and your movements happens when the dog views you as packmaster. Now remember, some dogs have natural alpha tenancies, some do not. However, ALL dogs believe a pack needs an alpha the way a plane needs a pilot. Think of you in a small plane and the pilot slumps over dead. Would you think 'oh well, we aren't crashing RIGHT NOW, so no big deal I'll go back to reading my magazine' or would you attempt SOMETHING, like getting in the co-pilot seat, grabbing the wheel and radioing for instructions? That's how dogs view a pack with no alpha, like a plane with no pilot. Having no alpha is very stressful to dogs. Someone to steps up to the alpha sometimes and then turns around and undermines their position as alpha at other times? That's like a pilot slipping in and out of consciousness. You's STILL go in 'emergency take-over mode' Same with a dog. ALSO, does your dog still have his nuts? If so, remove them. You will be doing him AND you a big favor and it has NOTHING to do with controlling pet overpopulation or avoiding testicular cancer 10 years down the road. It is all about improving his temperament and removing a huge stressor from his life....that or arrange to have him mate once a year (which I don't really recommend due to pet overpopulation, but it is the other way to take care of the biological alarm that is going off in his head) I already instill the sit & wait til I tell you it is OK to eat what I have given you routine. I have done the taking his food away from him from time to time, but I tell him to sit while he is eating, then take his bowl. Honestly I would be pissed & growl at you too if I were eating & you just come up & took my dinner plate away from me, so mostly I leave him alone while eating. He does not get bones. He heels on leash (when he is on a leash) very well, a lot of the times when we walk we are going to get the mail or walking the woods on my property & he does not need a leash, plus I want him to run so he gets plenty of exercise. When we walk on leash he walks right beside me (on the left), if he starts to get ahead of me I stop walking & he does an automatic sit as he was trained to do as a small puppy. I tell him to heel then we start moving again. Still has "the boys", should look at getting them cut. How expensive of a procedure is this? Just an estimated guess will suffice til I can get to the vet to find out. I have no plans of breeding since he has no papers & the overpopulation factor that you mentioned. |
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Honestly I would be pissed & growl at you too if I were eating & you just come up & took my dinner plate away from me, so mostly I leave him alone while eating. He does not get bones. Okay, well this is the ROOT of your issues. You need to realize your dog does not think or feel like a human . Have you ever seen a dog stay fanatically loyal to a person who abused it, betrayed it repeatedly, or just plain used it badly? Would YOU stay fanatically loyal to someone who did those things to you? I hope not. Most likely even though you are generally acting like an alpha, your dog can sense it is just an act, and that is undermining you. You probably have one of the dogs that is a natural alpha. Most dogs would be fine with you just acting like an alpha, but a dog that has strong alpha tendencies on it's own it will look more closely for cracks. You need to dismiss your sense of 'fairness' when dealing with your dog. When there is food, pack alpha decides who gets to eat what. If the pack alpha decides that he eats it all, the pack does not see this as unfair, it sees it as what is...just like the sky being blue. If the alpha questions his right to make such decisions, even subconsciously, then it is proving to the others he is not really truly alpha, and the pack would be better served by replacing him with a better leader. |
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at it's heart this is still a dominance/alpha issue. There is SOMETHING you are doing which is confusing the dog in that roll, the PROOF of this is that he growls at you under certain circumstances. The error rests in you. Now, don't take that personal, you weren't raised by a dog and hence 'speaking dog' will always be a 2nd language. You just happen to have acquired a dog that expects you to speak it perfectly.
What you also must realize at this point is that there is a limit to what people can understand when you have a half-paragraph of information. They can give general guidelines and overarching principles but they cannot diagnose the problem...just like a doctor cannot give a full physical over the phone. So, you need to get more advanced. At MINIMUM you need to set up a camera and record yourself. No, don't just record the instant the problem is, record well before the growling happens. Take these videos and questions to a board that deals specifically with dogs. Honestly, would you go to Labradoodles.com to their 'other stuff' section and under cars and knitting finally find the 'outdoors' forum and ask there for advice on building your own AR-15? Otherwise, look at getting a dog behavior expert to address your specific issues with an in-home visit. |
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You have already gotten alot of good advice regarding the need to establish and maintain your position as the alpha member in the pack.
Any command you give must be followed by the dog. Compliance is rewarded with praise and reward (food or play). Disobedience is punished. Aggression toward you can't be tolerated or it will likely get worse. Dealing with dominance can be difficult as you have to be in control or you can get bitten. Back-tie the dog to an immovable object so he can't get to you, then repetively give and then remove someting he wants such as his food or a toy. Reward submission and punish aggression. Work with a trainer if you are at all hesitant or nervous about physically challenging your dog, as the dog will sense if you are scared of him. I would try to avoid conflict regarding his crate as I want it to be a safe place where punishment does not occur, if at all possible. |