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Posted: 10/4/2017 11:15:33 PM EDT
I am learning guitar.  I built a partscaster that plays as nice as a used MIM (That would've cost 1/2 as much).  I picked up a Mitchell MD120 from Guitar Center.

I am using Tom Beckers Acoustic Guitar setup with directions and reasoning


Neck Relief:  Slap the capo on the 1st fret, pres down on the 14th.  Measure at the 6th fret. Measures < 0.006  (Sorry I don't have a thinner feeler gauge.)

Saddle height:  Capo on 1st fret, 6th string at the 13th fret.  Measures 0.070 btw top of fret and bottom of 6th string. (He recommends 0.100)


Soooo, I have a 5 pack of plastic saddles.  I keep taking a little more off the bottom of the saddle.  0.060". No buzz.   I am currently at 0.050" with no buzz.


Question.  I don't have any buzz right now.  I am waaay low on neck relief, and waaaaay low on saddle height.  Do I have this thing too low?  Is my tone/sound going to be degraded?
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 11:25:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Set up for your comfort.   Any measurements are only a guide.

Granted, most experienced players (note, I didn't say GOOD players) usually end up with their action setup within a certain common
range of dimensions.     Basically that's "low action", "medium action", and "high action".   Within those categories anyone who likes
one specific category will probably find that his guitar is well received by others who also like the same category of action.

It's great to have a guitar that can take very low action without buzzing, but the limitation on low action is that you have to play
gently to avoid simply overpowering the setup and getting string buzzes.  

You can't windmill like Pete Townshend if your 12th fret action height is 1/64th of an inch!  

Figure out how you like to play,  do you prefer to strum and pick hard or do you just like to barely let the strings know your pick
even exists?  The lighter your preferred action, the lower you can take it.  As long as the guitar doesn't need fretwork to go that low, of course.
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 11:38:51 PM EDT
[#2]
MirrorMirror,  I like a low action.  I tend to press down on the strings waaaay too hard.  I play lightly, as I don't want to wake the kid up, or deal with the other half's eye rolls, "I cant hear the TV" sighs, etc.

Also, for step 3, my nut height measures out at 0.022" and 0.018"; right on his guidelines.
Link Posted: 10/5/2017 4:05:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Usually relief is set to around .010 to .012 but this is only a guide. I finger pick and when I do use a pick I use a very light thin nylon pick. What the manufacturers usually call a low action I call high. Not all guitars will play with a very low action. If you listen to most all strat players playing clean you will hear a lot of string buzz.
Link Posted: 10/6/2017 1:53:53 PM EDT
[#4]
The best way to learn how to setup is to do your own setups! I do my own, and also for friends.

Here is a decent video on doing acoustic setup. This is basically how I do mine.
DIY: How to Set Up and Intonate an Acoustic Guitar
Link Posted: 10/6/2017 4:37:59 PM EDT
[#5]
It's all about comfort. However you do sacrifice tone and volume as your low action will eventually start buzzing with a harder pick attack.  I play a fairly straight neck on my acoustics. A few thousandths at best. I also use a medium height because my Martins are capable of a wide variety of volume and tone with different pick and finger techniques. They can whisper and they can be downright bodacious. A low action would limit my ability to dig in.

It's all up to you.  Eventually most players end up in the medium action area on acoustics for the reasons I stated.
Link Posted: 10/6/2017 11:15:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's all about comfort. However you do sacrifice tone and volume as your low action will eventually start buzzing with a harder pick attack.  I play a fairly straight neck on my acoustics. A few thousandths at best. I also use a medium height because my Martins are capable of a wide variety of volume and tone with different pick and finger techniques. They can whisper and they can be downright bodacious. A low action would limit my ability to dig in.

It's all up to you.  Eventually most players end up in the medium action area on acoustics for the reasons I stated.
View Quote
I am really happy with the way this setup turned out.  0.005" on neck relief.  0.050" on saddle height (String height measured at the 13th fret).  Strummed at "max strum", no buzz.  Removed the strings, lemon oil to the fretboard, linseed oiled the rosewood.  Restrung with D'Addario EJ16-3Ds. Not bad for a $99 guitar!



Link Posted: 10/9/2017 2:27:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Be careful OP.  What doesn't buzz today might tomorrow...
Link Posted: 10/9/2017 2:30:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Like others have said, it's all a matter of preference. And if you get it too low and it starts buzzing, you can shim the bridge or nut a little bit with paper.
Link Posted: 10/11/2017 6:50:28 PM EDT
[#9]
I am curious why you messed with it in the first place.  Did you change to a different string thickness?  Was the fret board bowed too much and needed reset?  Did you switch the saddle for something with a little more tone?

For what it's worth, I am in a similar boat.  I changed my strings to custom lights, and wanted to change the saddles from plastic to bone (bone was too much for my guitars, so I switched to TUSQ).  I played with the neck relief a bit, but STILL had buzz.  Took it to the local luthier for his opinion.  He said that I haven't been controlling the humidity and showed me how the neck size had visibly changed from where it is mounted in the body.  That, and some of my frets were starting to flatten from use (I am probably getting due for a refret).  I did my best to match the neck radius when I redid the saddle, but I still don't have saddle gages so I made my own to get pretty close.

In my opinion, you want the string height (action) to be as high as you can get it without causing distortion, buzzing, or pulling it out of tune.  When I get the nut redone, I will put new saddles in and raise the action a bit from where it is now.
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 9:00:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am curious why you messed with it in the first place.  Did you change to a different string thickness?  Was the fret board bowed too much and needed reset?  Did you switch the saddle for something with a little more tone?

For what it's worth, I am in a similar boat.  I changed my strings to custom lights, and wanted to change the saddles from plastic to bone (bone was too much for my guitars, so I switched to TUSQ).  I played with the neck relief a bit, but STILL had buzz.  Took it to the local luthier for his opinion.  He said that I haven't been controlling the humidity and showed me how the neck size had visibly changed from where it is mounted in the body.  That, and some of my frets were starting to flatten from use (I am probably getting due for a refret).  I did my best to match the neck radius when I redid the saddle, but I still don't have saddle gages so I made my own to get pretty close.

In my opinion, you want the string height (action) to be as high as you can get it without causing distortion, buzzing, or pulling it out of tune.  When I get the nut redone, I will put new saddles in and raise the action a bit from where it is now.
View Quote
NO

You want the action low but not so low that is buzzes.  I can't stand high action.  The only exception would be someone who plays slide.

I think OP went too low and when the humidity changes he may have problems.
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 10:53:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


NO

You want the action low but not so low that is buzzes.  I can't stand high action.  The only exception would be someone who plays slide.

I think OP went too low and when the humidity changes he may have problems.
View Quote
To be clear, I agree with you.  When I said "as high as I can get it" I meant "higher than too low, but still good playability and tone."  And I also agree, this is all personal preference.  And I also agree, humidity is going to be an experience for him!
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 7:35:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
NO

You want the action low but not so low that is buzzes.  I can't stand high action.  The only exception would be someone who plays slide.

I think OP went too low and when the humidity changes he may have problems.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am curious why you messed with it in the first place.  Did you change to a different string thickness?  Was the fret board bowed too much and needed reset?  Did you switch the saddle for something with a little more tone?

For what it's worth, I am in a similar boat.  I changed my strings to custom lights, and wanted to change the saddles from plastic to bone (bone was too much for my guitars, so I switched to TUSQ).  I played with the neck relief a bit, but STILL had buzz.  Took it to the local luthier for his opinion.  He said that I haven't been controlling the humidity and showed me how the neck size had visibly changed from where it is mounted in the body.  That, and some of my frets were starting to flatten from use (I am probably getting due for a refret).  I did my best to match the neck radius when I redid the saddle, but I still don't have saddle gages so I made my own to get pretty close.

In my opinion, you want the string height (action) to be as high as you can get it without causing distortion, buzzing, or pulling it out of tune.  When I get the nut redone, I will put new saddles in and raise the action a bit from where it is now.
NO

You want the action low but not so low that is buzzes.  I can't stand high action.  The only exception would be someone who plays slide.

I think OP went too low and when the humidity changes he may have problems.
ajroyer:
I didn't mess with the truss rod.  The guitar was already stupid low without buzz.

I had a 5 pack of saddles.  I sanded one (what I thought) was too much.  No buzz.  It gives me the numbers you see in the OP.

I put new strings on it.  Daddario EJ-16s.  Seemed like the prudent thing to do.


StewartTR:
House stays at a near-constant 50% humidity.  Once it cools down, I'll switch on the aprilaire humidifier.

If it gets too dry, and the intonation changes, I'll have to decide if I want to mess with the truss rod, or go post in the DIY forum to figure out how to turbocharge my humidifier.

Thank you all for the wisdom.  I'm VERY happy with my $99 guitar.  Just got back from a trip to LA.  Visited the downtown Sam Ash / GC, as well as the Sam Ash and GC in El Segundo.  I didn't find one acoustic that "clicked" with me as much as this one does.  I stayed in the common-man guitar rooms; Didn't try anything over $2500.  

This either says I am color blind/tone blind and quality blind when it comes to guitars, or I am in that magical place where I have a great starting rig that I should play the $#!+ out of.
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