Posted: 2/24/2013 4:52:55 PM EDT
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So,
where I teach has no sound system, and I hav ebeen tasked to start looking around, getting estimates, etc. One of my students' parents runs a sound business on the side and he put together a couple "packages". I'm leaning to the "intermediate" one (about $5K). Keep in mind my student groups are all acoustic, but we need something that could fill an auditorium/gym. These are the specifics of the package I'm looking at... 3- QSC KW122 speakers....$3297 2-Ultimate support speaker stands...$100 1-Allen and Heath Zed60-14FX Mixer...$449 1-Rode NT5 matched pair mic set...$429 3-Shure SM58 mics...$297 Misc cables...$250 Approx. Cost $4873 Now just a quick perusal online at Sweetwater and BH shows I was being quoted MSRP. I don't know if there would be a "deal" offered. Regardless, do y'all think this would be a good setup? The last one we had (the other school that was in our building took it with them) was about the same cost, but definitely cheaper quality and was basically put together by an "Otto the busdriver" type from a small guitar shop. Thoughts? |
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Student vocal groups. ....This year the smallest is 29 (singing SATB, and at times SSAATTBB) and the largest is 62 which this year is able to sing in 5 parts.
I would like something "somewhat" portable in the event we go places to perform. Two years ago we went to the World Bank and it would have been nice to have a sound system. |
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Quoted:
Student vocal groups. ....This year the smallest is 29 (singing SATB, and at times SSAATTBB) and the largest is 62 which this year is able to sing in 5 parts. I would like something "somewhat" portable in the event we go places to perform. Two years ago we went to the World Bank and it would have been nice to have a sound system. OK, thanks. I use those QSC speakers at work. Can't write too much now because I am about to go use them 
One thing I will tell you now is that they are very directional in the higher ranges. Two of them will not adequately cover a large area, but will get you by if you're looking for portability. Is the third one supposed to be used as a monitor? If so, once again you will have issues with the narrow dispersion, and only the extreme middle section of a 62 person choral group will hear it. Does the ensemble sing along with tracks? Will the system be used for any other sort of playback? One more thing, reinforcing a choral group with a distant stereo mic pair is tricky. The SM58s can be used for soloists, of course. I'll write more later, but let me know if you have any questions. P.S. I don't use a traditional mixing board now. I use this. Check it out 
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You will want monitors. I see no problem with QSC powered
speakers but I think you could get more bang for the buck with passive speakers and power amps. You could save a little coin by using a yamaha board and spending more on other things. I am not a big fan of Sure Mic's but they are rugged and will give you good service. |
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Quoted:
So, where I teach has no sound system, and I hav ebeen tasked to start looking around, getting estimates, etc. One of my students' parents runs a sound business on the side and he put together a couple "packages". I'm leaning to the "intermediate" one (about $5K). Keep in mind my student groups are all acoustic, but we need something that could fill an auditorium/gym. These are the specifics of the package I'm looking at... 3- QSC KW122 speakers....$3297 2-Ultimate support speaker stands...$100 1-Allen and Heath Zed60-14FX Mixer...$449 1-Rode NT5 matched pair mic set...$429 3-Shure SM58 mics...$297 Misc cables...$250 Approx. Cost $4873 Now just a quick perusal online at Sweetwater and BH shows I was being quoted MSRP. I don't know if there would be a "deal" offered. Regardless, do y'all think this would be a good setup? The last one we had (the other school that was in our building took it with them) was about the same cost, but definitely cheaper quality and was basically put together by an "Otto the busdriver" type from a small guitar shop. Thoughts? Power and and individual speakers.....less cost and if a component fails, it's cheaper/quicker to replace. The Shure 58's are durable and not as high output as other brands, but way over priced for what they are....kids are using them? get some mics that are 1/2 the cost, save money, usually better performance and when the kids jack them up you can get another and still be money ahead. you can get a package already put together from musiciansfriend.com or any of the online places for 1/2 what he is selling you.... and with cables.....go long
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Thanks fellas,
Keep in mind these are for "classical" concerts and really the mics are to sometimes "even" things out (you know, like when you only have two boys that sing bass competing with 9 tenors etc.). I definitely understand the need for the LONG cables though....found that out the hard way a couple times. |
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Quoted:
Thanks fellas, Keep in mind these are for "classical" concerts and really the mics are to sometimes "even" things out (you know, like when you only have two boys that sing bass competing with 9 tenors etc.). I definitely understand the need for the LONG cables though....found that out the hard way a couple times. I'm definitely trying to tailor my posts to your needs. Having said that, having a sound system per se will not even out anything. A good ensemble "mixes" itself; the purpose of a system w/engineer is to reinforce that which is already balanced. In other words, if competition already exists between voices, there is nothing that mics and speakers can do to correct it. In other other words, if the parents of bass singers x and y are complaining that they can't hear their kids, the solution is to teach your singers to blend their voices appropriately (easier said than done, I know), not spend $5K on sound equipment. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks fellas, Keep in mind these are for "classical" concerts and really the mics are to sometimes "even" things out (you know, like when you only have two boys that sing bass competing with 9 tenors etc.). I definitely understand the need for the LONG cables though....found that out the hard way a couple times. I'm definitely trying to tailor my posts to your needs. Having said that, having a sound system per se will not even out anything. A good ensemble "mixes" itself; the purpose of a system w/engineer is to reinforce that which is already balanced. In other words, if competition already exists between voices, there is nothing that mics and speakers can do to correct it. In other other words, if the parents of bass singers x and y are complaining that they can't hear their kids, the solution is to teach your singers to blend their voices appropriately (easier said than done, I know), not spend $5K on sound equipment. Oh, I know all about sound, blend, etc. I had a 20+ year perfornance career before coming here. I'm not expecting the sound system to do everything, just slightly "enhance" some things. To answer some of your other questions.... Sometimes they do sing with an accompaniment track. However, I haven't given any thought to running it through the system as well. I suppose that could help eliminate any feedback/bleedover issues. I'm not a "Mac" person, so I don't know if that Mackie thingie would be so good for me
As far as mics go, I might have a soloist occaionally, but otherwise I would need one for me announcing, but all the others would be for each section. What would you recommend then? The third speaker the guy recommended as a monitor. Personally, I don't think a monitor is needed, not in this type of acoustic setting anyway. |
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Oh, I know all about sound, blend, etc. I had a 20+ year perfornance career before coming here. I'm not expecting the sound system to do everything, just slightly "enhance" some things. To answer some of your other questions.... Sometimes they do sing with an accompaniment track. However, I haven't given any thought to running it through the system as well. I suppose that could help eliminate any feedback/bleedover issues. I'm not a "Mac" person, so I don't know if that Mackie thingie would be so good for me
As far as mics go, I might have a soloist occaionally, but otherwise I would need one for me announcing, but all the others would be for each section. What would you recommend then? The third speaker the guy recommended as a monitor. Personally, I don't think a monitor is needed, not in this type of acoustic setting anyway. I believe I am starting to understand what you're trying to accomplish, but I think its still worth noting that unless done right, adding sound equipment can create more problems than it solves. You are going to have trouble trying to "slightly enhance," or "even things out" due to the lack of isolation in an ensemble setting. You cannot simply point a mic at the bass section and ask your sound guy to turn up the bass singers. There will be too much sound entering the mic from the rest of the ensemble, and you'll be turning that up as well. That's why I said that if your ensemble isn't already well-blended, then there's no hope of remedying the situation with the addition of mics and speakers. One of the only ways that one can really control sounds in a live setting is with close miking, and even that is a highly imperfect arrangement. Obviously you can't give each kid a mic, tell them to sing directly into it, and mix each voice to perfection. The solution would then seem to be to take several mics and place them a few feet in front of each section. That's great if you want to reinforce the group as a group, but you're kidding yourself if you think that you'll be able to turn one section up to make it heard over another, especially if the section you're trying to boost is already being drowned out. There are so many other issues here, e.g. lack of audience coverage due to having only two speakers, the potential for feedback when trying to achieve gain with distant condenser mics, etc. I am not trying to bring you down, but I feel like its my job to help people get real about what sound equipment can and cannot do. The stuff's expensive; I don't want you to drop a bunch of cash only to be disappointed. Its not about the type of gear you buy, whether QSC, Mackie, Yamaha, or whatever. Its about understanding the proper application of sound reinforcement. |
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I have been running the QSC kw153 mains with the kw181 subs in a 500 person portable church for 5 years with some outdoor venues thrown in and sound quality is a must for the young crowds that are typical. the main campus has myers speakers and 2 Yamaha M7 digital boards with over 150 in their system and the musicians say our system blows the big church away. what I would do and I don't know the size of the venue is get a pair of the kw153s you can always add the subs later if you need them and unlike the Yamaha speakers with the powered mixer you only have to daisy chain the inputs from the sub to the main and use the built in crossover in the subs to make a system. Shure mics while not the must have mics for people like Adel are industry standard work horses that have an excellent sound and super customer support if you ever need it. same goes for the QSC. for a desk I would recommend this http://www.fullcompass.com/product/325804.html?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleps&gclid=CJPsr5PL1rUCFQuqnQodLTMAVg. soundcraft are an excellent value in this price range with features like long throw faders and 4 band parametric eq on each channel stereo outs with a center channel and either 2, 4 or 8 channel sub grouping, combined with nice warm natural sounding preamps for the mics. you should set up a school account or class account with sweetwater or guitar center. we got the QSC KW153 for 749 each with our church discount |
| Perhaps I'm asking for too much. When we had the sound system, it worked out fine with one general mic for each section. Did it makes things perfect? Far from it. Did it help to enhance voices/sections that needed to be brought out? Absolutely. Anywho, another factor is ease of use. Now that my better half is in another building, we can't rely on each other to be each other's "sound man". That means, it has to be able to be used by student A/V sqads |
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Perhaps I'm asking for too much. When we had the sound system, it worked out fine with one general mic for each section. Did it makes things perfect? Far from it. Did it help to enhance voices/sections that needed to be brought out? Absolutely. Anywho, another factor is ease of use. Now that my better half is in another building, we can't rely on each other to be each other's "sound man". That means, it has to be able to be used by student A/V sqads If you have had success in the past using a sound system with a choral ensemble, by all means, go for it. The gear you listed in the original post will definitely get you started on having a nice, portable sound system. Best wishes. Let us know if we can help once you get things together.
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I don't know what part of the country you are in but Sweetwater Sound in Indiana
is one of the best in the country for professional sound gear. If you would call them up and talk to them they could set you up and ship it to you..I don't have their number on me right now but they are on the internet. |
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Sounds like a really "no thought into it whatsoever" setup. QSC speakers, IMHO, suck. I'd go Yamaha powered board, Yamaha speakers, SM58's. If it's all acoustic, if you get 15" speakers you won't meed subs but can add them later. My recommendation is for the new Yamaha powered speakers. But I disagree that QSCs "suck". They are the gold standard in powered PA speakers at the sub-$1K price point. EVERYTHING in that range gets compared to them. Having said that, I was all set to buy a pair of the K12s or K10s and ended-up getting a pair of Alto powered cabs instead. They were less than 1/3 of the price of the QSCs and Yamahas... but with 75% of the performance. In fact, some people who own both compare the inexpensive Altos very favorably to the more expensive brands (which is why I chose them). |
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I own JBL PRX speakers. They rock.
As far as the mics go it sounds like you want to mic a group of singers or instruments. There are many quality low priced condenser mics. Grab four of those and one 58 for announcing. Powered speakers are better for you than buying passive and amps. Easier set up, less to haul. My JBL dual 15 with a horn only weighs 65 pounds. I rent these to bands and DJs. Yamaha makes a good powered speaker. good luck |